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Originally posted by chrisisall:
AURaptor has already assured us that it's just a smallish downturn, and that we're all safe

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Originally posted by miike:
i intend to burn my money as it is more usefull now as a fuel than as currency .i have also found other uses for the dollar as insulation for attics and toilet roll plus when added to water makes a great paper machee which can then be turned to infinite usess from hats to car body work .

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Originally posted by JaynezTown:
The National Debt Clock in April 2008 said U.S. debt was $9.5 trillion. Add to this math unfunded Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security obligations and it's almost $ 60 trillion !!!!

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Be prepared -- food is going to become more expensive, even if oil prices stabilize.

Agriculture tends to be heavily dependent on energy for fueling tractors and field equipment, as well as having a heavy reliance on petroleum-based fertilizers and herbicides. But what most people don't realize is that even if oil prices level off, food prices are likely to continue to rise.

Here are some reasons food prices will continue to increase.

Bees
The number of bees has been dramatically declining over the last few years. In 2006, Colony Collapse Disorder wiped out 30% to 90% of beekeeper hives. The losses continued last year through this year with over 30% of hives being destroyed in both 2007 and 2008.

The exact cause of Colony Collapse Disorder is not known. Since roughly 75% of flowering plants rely on pollination to help them reproduce, bees are an important link in the chain that produces much of the food that we eat. Without bees to pollinate crops, the crops can't bear fruit, causing crop yields to drop. The end result is higher prices in the supermarket for these foods.

Hoarding

A growing number of countries have sharply curbed food exports in order to ensure an adequate supply of food at affordable prices for their country. While this trend is a much bigger problem for poor countries that rely heavily on imported food than the U.S., it also puts pressure on world food prices including those foods being imported to the U.S.

To make matters worse, the hoarding creates the perception of food shortages, which can lead to more hoarding and further increases food prices.

World Demand for Food

There is a growing demand for food around the world with the emergence of a middle class in such places as China, Latin America, Africa and the Middle East. With more disposable income, these people demand more and a greater variety of food. These middle classes will likely continue to increase, placing more pressure on world food prices.

The Lowly Dollar

The dollar has fallen against other world currencies over the past year. When the dollar goes down in value against other currencies, any dollar-denominated commodity tends to go up in price.

Part of the huge increase in oil prices can be attributed to the fall of the value of the dollar against other currencies. In the same way, most major food commodities are traded in dollars, which makes foreign-produced food more expensive.

Hidden Price Increases
Normally, food manufacturers would be hard-pressed to increase food prices further if they had already raised prices with their increased costs from oil. There is always fear among food manufacturers when they must raise prices that doing so will cause a decline in the amount they can sell. One way around this that manufacturers have been using is that instead of raising the price marked on the product, they simply place less into the package. Many people don't notice the change so they don't lose as much in sales.

Having done this, food manufacturers still have room to raise the actual prices where they would have been much more reluctant to do so if they had previously raised prices the same way.

Weather
Recent flooding in the Midwest and Corn Belt has prevented farmers from planting soybeans and damaged the corn crop, which had recently been planted. Analysts have estimated that there may be a shortfall of 15% or more in grain produced this year compared to last year due to the flooding.

The bad weather hasn't been limited to the U.S. Poor weather has reduced overall global food production from Canada, the European Union and Eastern Europe over the last couple of years. A drought has resulted in a major Australian wheat decline. This has tightened world food stocks, which has contributed to rising food prices.

Speculation

Speculation's role in increased food prices is hotly debated, but it appears that investors have taken an interest in food prices and are playing a larger role in the commodity markets.

As food supplies tighten, there is a good chance that speculators will increase in the hope of making a quick buck, further increasing food prices.

Ethanol Production

With the rise of oil prices, U.S. ethanol production has greatly increased. It's expected that over 30% of the U.S. corn crop will go toward ethanol production this year.

With such a large portion of the corn crop going to ethanol production, there will be increased competition for the food in other uses, such as feed for cattle and dairy cows, manufactured foods like cereals and foods sweetened with corn syrup.

All indications are that food will get more expensive and you should be preparing for these coming increases. While cutting food prices isn't necessarily difficult, it does take practice and time to learn to take advantage of the money saving tricks out there.

It's time to adopt grocery money-saving strategies, stock up your pantry, use coupons and watch out for the ways stores trick you into spending more than you planned.

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Originally posted by SimonWho:
I almost don't want Obama to be elected because he's going to be blamed for the inevitable disaster that is coming which is entirely due to the last eight years of Republican rule.

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Originally posted by Khyron:

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Originally posted by SimonWho:
I almost don't want Obama to be elected because he's going to be blamed for the inevitable disaster that is coming which is entirely due to the last eight years of Republican rule.

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Weird, just the other day I said pretty much exactly the same thing to a friend of mine. Glad I'm not the only one who's had this thought.

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This isn't my signature. I have to type this every time I make a post.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
No matter who gets elected, they're going to inherit about 37 kinds of shit, and they're going to get all the blame for it.

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(AP) — Leaders from the Group of Eight industrialized powers expressed "strong concern" about rising oil and food prices but said they remain "positive" about the outlook for the global economy in a communique released Tuesday.

Saying that surging oil prices pose a risk to the world economy, the G-8 leaders urged that production and refining capacities be increased in the short term and that investment be boosted over the medium-term.

The G-8 — which groups the US, Britain, Japan, France, Germany, Canada, Russia and Italy — also called for diversifying sources of energy and further efforts to improve energy efficiency.

To enhance energy security, the leaders proposed an energy forum focused on energy efficiency and new technology to help dialogue between producers and consumers. No further details were available.

"We remain positive about the long-term resilience of our economies and future global growth," the leaders said in the statement released on the second day of the G-8’s three-day summit in northern Japan, noting that growth in emerging economies remained strong.

"However, the world economy is now facing uncertainty and downside risks persist," the statement said.

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I was the number one guy telling people the sky was falling

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Whatcha going to do though? When prices get high enough people wont' be able to pay and they're going to have to lower prices

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No, he's not clad in black PJ's and sneaking into bank vaults. If only. Ben Bernanke is engaged in a process that's far more insidious and far more damaging to your financial well-being. He's helping to erode the buying power of your hard-earned, long-saved dollars with easy-money policies.

Hungry yet?
The evidence is everywhere, even in the "core" CPI, which pretends that food and energy prices don't matter. Yet those of us who do eat shelled out 5% more in May than we did last year. Get a load of what inflation has done to the following staples:

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The Fed's monetary policies, though, have led us to our current situation. Commodities have spiked not because of shadowy speculators, but rather because the Fed has allowed the dollar to grow weak and stay weak. Bernanke said he would support a strong, stable dollar, but then allowed interest rates to hold steady. Oil, which initially fell on the news, surged again. Equities, which have been sagging all along as the economy itself stagnates, have continued to fall, despite all of the Fed's stimulus plans.

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

There is no great cause for alarm. The U.S. dollar is not some kind of invented commodity with a made-up value. Rather, it either has intrinsic worth based on its mineral makeup, or is backed by precious ores such as gold and silver that have been...

What's that?

Oh.

Shit.

--Anthony

r

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LOS ANGELES (AFP) — Federally-seized IndyMac Bank was due to reopen Monday after suffering one of the biggest bank closures in US history, as the troubled US mortgage industry struggles to stem further meltdown.

The regulatory Office of Thrift Supervision (OTS) announced Friday it had placed the California-based bank, worth an estimated 32 billion dollars, under the control of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC).

The mortgage lender, which will reopen as IndyMac Federal Bank, marked the largest bank failure in a year of mortgage and foreclosure crisis highlighted by a surge in defaults and a plunge in housing prices which are rippling through the US economy...
...
Reports said IndyMac's collapse was the second biggest in US history behind the 1984 failure of the 40-billion-dollar Continental Illinois Bank.

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You're not going to fix a damn thing by whining.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
Gold has no intrinsic value. It has some industrial uses, but the value of gold, gemstones, and some of the other hedges are based on sheer speculation...

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Let's party like it's 1929.

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You know Signy... it's the bullshit fear monguering like that, that drove people to pull all of their money out of IndyMac bank and made it fail.

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Originally posted by SignyM:

Don't assume that because things have been a certain way they will continue in the same vein indefinitely.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
O2B- Because gold doesn't corrode, conducts metal and is easily smelted it is useful for SOME things, such as electronic contacts. (OTOH, nothing disinfects like silver.) But the current value of gold has nothing to do with it's utility and more do do with speculative value. To reiterate Rue's point: to a man dying of thirst, water is more precious than gold.

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I'm not denying gold's historic value. But there may come a time when something else becomes more valuable than gold, simply due to changing circumstances. Food, for instance.

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Don't assume that because things have been a certain way they will continue in the same vein indefinitely.

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Let's party like it's 1929.

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If you don't believe in the intrinsic value of gold , what are you doing with it ?

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Do you even have custody of it ?

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If you still want to flagellate your appendages , and your expired equine , about how your gold has no 'intrinsic' value , I'll send a truck , or an envelope , to take it off your hands , whichever is more appropriate...

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Originally posted by SignyM:

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You know Signy... it's the bullshit fear monguering like that, that drove people to pull all of their money out of IndyMac bank and made it fail.

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6ix, I'm trying to tell you that a system based on greed will act... yanno, GREEDY. It's not fear-mongering that's causing banks to fail, it's predatory lending caused by unbridled greed. But somehow you manage to get it bass-ackwards.

I just got a copy of a local paper from my hometown. The headline said "American Axle Spares Cheektowaga.. But Tonawanda Plant to Close" A union member who voted for the contract put it this way: It was either vote no and lose my job... or vote yes, get a buyout, and lose my job

You think you can make that go away with happy-think?


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Let's party like it's 1929.

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Originally posted by SignyM:


O2B- In a desert where EVERYONE is thirsty, water may become the currency of choice. Have you ever read Dune?

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Sure , I've read Dune...
Despite the fact that you're plainly 'high on spice' , that stuff still hasn't given you any insight or prescience...Or , appreciation for history...

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Originally posted by SignyM:

Sure, gold is pretty and shiny. It doesn't corrode. But it's heavy and it's too soft to turn into a tool.

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It's only your arguments that are too soft to turn into a tool...You , on the other hand , are a 'tool' , because you're a soft 'target' for the twin engines of our national destruction , the IRS and the Federal Reserve...
Consider yourself poked and forked , because you are 'done'...

Plainly , you don't know what constitutes a 'tool'...There are innumerable applications for gold in nanotechnology and nanomedicine , aerospace , electronics , etc.
That's intrinsic value , based on chemistry and physics , which are holding up pretty well , along with certain other immutable Laws of the Universe...

Demand impacts the available supply , and consequently , the 'price'...Never said that it wasn't a commodity , but it is the Lawfully-specified commodity upon which our economy is required to be based , along with Silver and Copper...All 'strategic' metals , because of their unique, intrinsic , properties...

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Originally posted by SignyM:

Put it this way: If gold were so intrinsically valuable, why would it's price (in USD) fluctuate from $850 in 1980 to $253 in 1999?

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Market forces...Supply and Demand...Perception of an 'expanding' economy and relatively more responsible policies on the part of 'government' during that timeframe...Duh !

But , still no Lawful Money during that period...

Prior to that , John Kennedy wanted to return this country to its Lawful , Constitutional roots , a metals-based economic system...Soon thereafter , he was assasinated , and LBJ got busy reversing the orders...

A Sovereign nation truly cannot be run at the whim of private banksters...As long as there are Constitutional standards (Metals) being met...

Do you want to be a Citizen , or a 'subject' ?...