The Party's Over by Riverlove

Sarah Palin really needs nothing from Oprah. Oprah cried when Obama was on stage in Denver, she cried. That is powerful. But what was she really crying about? The obvious answer is that she's extremely proud of Barack, and recognizes the immense social and historical importance his nomination represents. I respect that, and I admire that. She's made a deep personal commitment for Obama. It would be awkward for Palin to appear on her show, so I agree with her current decision. What other things about the man made her cry? His political and social views, his eloquence? Lot's of things. That's how I and everyone I know and talk to feel about Sarah Palin.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 3:58 AM

Indeed, the Repubs can start popping their bubbly. What a victory for the red side this could be - they just might get four more years of doing the usual! Cheney must be glowing at the similarities of his potential replacement, like a little mini-Dick with lipstick and a beehive. Secretive, manipulative, intolerant, power hungry, anti-feminist, pro-business, vindictive, divisive... Oh yes, Cheney must be wearing a party hat and gigging with glee!

And the rest of us? If the reds have their way, we'll have 4 more years of the same hypocritical abuse of power and destruction of American freedoms that we're oh so used to by now. No, there's party there Riverlove.

For example:

In July, when legislators started talking about conducting an investigation, Palin denied any wrongdoing and said she welcomed an investigation.

"Hold me accountable," she said.

The Legislature took her up on that offer. But this week, she basically told the Legislature, "Never mind."

Palin's lawyer has asked the Legislature to drop its investigation. He had the governor file an ethics complaint against herself, in a bid to turn the entire matter over to the state Personnel Board, which would hire an independent investigator.

This is not an open and transparent attempt to establish Gov. Palin's accountability. It is an attempt to drag out the investigation until after voters decide the fate of her vice-presidential bid.

Instead, Gov. Palin should honor her pledge to cooperate with the Legislature's investigation, conducted by former state prosecutor Steve Branchflower.

She could start by telling aide Frank Bailey he has to talk to the legislative investigator. She should fire him if he doesn't.

Bailey was caught on an audio recording of a phone conversation with a Public Safety Department official, in which Bailey pushed to get Wooten fired.

Bailey was put on paid leave, not fired. A spokeswoman for Palin said that while Bailey is on the state payroll, Palin can direct him to cooperate with the legislative investigation.

So why is Bailey still on the payroll, after he bailed on a scheduled interview with the legislative investigator Wednesday?

http://www.adn.com/opinion/story/516641.html

And said a resident of Wasilla who's known Palin for 16 years:

During her mayoral administration, most of the actual work of running this small city was turned over to an administrator. She had been pushed to hire this administrator by party power-brokers after she had gotten herself into some trouble over precipitous firings, which had given rise to a recall campaign.

Sarah campaigned in Wasilla as a "fiscal conservative." During her six years as mayor, she increased general government expenditures by more than 33 percent. During those same six years, the amount of taxes collected by the city increased by 38 percent. This was during a period of low inflation (1996-2002). She reduced progressive property taxes and increased a regressive sales tax, which taxed even food. The tax cuts that she promoted benefitted large corporate property owners way more than they benefited residents.

The huge increases in tax revenue during her mayoral administration weren't enough to fund everything on her wish list, though — borrowed money was needed, too. She inherited a city with zero debt but left it with indebtedness of more than $22 million. What did Mayor Palin encourage the voters to borrow money for? Was it the infrastructure that she said she supported? The sewage treatment plant that the city lacked? Or a new library? No. $1 million for a park. $15 million-plus for construction of a multi-use sports complex, which she rushed through, on a piece of property that the city didn't even have clear title to. That was still in litigation seven years later — to the delight of the lawyers involved! The sports complex itself is a nice addition to the community but a huge money pit, not the profit-generator she claimed it would be. She also supported bonds for $5.5 million for road projects that could have been done in five to seven years without any borrowing.

[snip]

She's not very tolerant of divergent opinions or open to outside ideas or compromise. As mayor, she fought ideas that weren't generated by her or her staff. Ideas weren't evaluated on their merits but on the basis of who proposed them.

While Sarah was mayor of Wasilla, she tried to fire our highly respected city librarian because the librarian refused to consider removing from the library some books that Sarah wanted removed. City residents rallied to the defense of the city librarian and against Palin's attempt at out-and-out censorship, so Palin backed down and withdrew her termination letter. People who fought her attempt to oust the librarian are on her enemies list to this day.

http://www.crosscut.com/politics-government/17341

Oh yes, more of the same. Get out the party hats, repubs, you just must keep this spiral of destruction going another term, if only you can keep the truth hidden for 60 more days! Keep spouting those shallow lines of how great McSame and Painin are, no matter if it has no relevance to their records, and you just might pull it off! Hell, you've managed it twice before, and jeez what a party that's been!

(Hint: just to be safe, you might want to start noodling with those voting machines again...)

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 4:03 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

The TRUTH about Sarah Palin is that she's one of the most beloved Governors in the nation, with a very high approval rating.

Your distortions and lies about her MAYORIAL days are going to back fire. Hell, the mere fact she took on the establishment, the good ole boy network in her OWN PARTY, as well as the Democrats, AND WON , shows just how late to the table you are w/ the petty, jealous smear campaign.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 4:18 AM

WHOZIT

Bon jovi threw a $31,000 per person B.O. party at his N.J. home, notice no one bitches about "Big entertainment" money.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 4:23 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Don't Ask Don't Tell: Log Cabin Jew Lindsey Graham USAF JAG at RNC Non-Con 2008
www.gopconvention2008.com/videos/

Quote:
Transcript: Sen. Lindsey Graham Speech to Republican National Convention 2008

Let there be no — let there be no doubt about it. We are on the road to victory.

Victory! You can say it at this convention. We are winning!

And you know what? America is safer because we’re winning in Iraq.

www.clipsandcomment.com/2008/09/04/transcript-sen-lindsey-graham-speec
h-to-republican-national-convention-2008/

"Sen. Lindsey Graham booed at S.C. Republican Convention over "emotional topic" of immigration. The crowd booed South Carolina U.S. Sen. Lindsey Graham, a key ally of McCain in both his 2000 and 2008 presidential bids, when he said he had worked with U.S. Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., on the immigration legislation."
www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1836747/posts

"The administration effectively neutralized the McCain ban with Senator Lindsey Graham's amendment stipulating that Guantanamo Bay detainees cannot invoke U.S. law to challenge their imprisonment. Congress thus bartered away this nation's constitutional birthright of habeas corpus, a foundational legal protection born, ironically, of the British Parliament's long struggle to ban royal torture writs by the infamous Court of Star Chamber."
www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2006/05/invisible_in_pl.html

"Is Lindsey Graham gay? Seven Minutes in Gay Hell: Is Lindsey Graham in S.C.'s airtight closet? When GQ asked last year, Graham wasn't mean, just dismissive. He said he's not gay, just a loner."
www.charlestoncitypaper.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A32974

"IS LINDSEY GRAHAM A HOMO? DOES THE POPE GO POO-POO IN THE WOODS? One thing is clear, Brig. General Janis Karpinski appears a lot more butch than Lindsey. And today's Wall Street Journal has an hysterical example. Following a screening of Ghosts of Abu Ghraib in Washington on Monday. Pompous little Lindsey got a bit carried away with his usually cautious self and blurted out that Karpinski, then military police commander in Baghdad, got off easy with a demotion to colonel. She should have faced a court-martial, he declared. He was unaware that Karpinski, who had been in the film, was also in the theater. Oh, girl! The moderator invited her to reply. She didn't challenge Lindsey to a duel. But she had a declaration as well. "Sen. Graham… I consider you as cowardly as Rumsfeld, as Sanchez, and Miller and all of them," said Karpinski, a South Carolina resident who had demanded-- and was denied-- a court martial to clear her name, who has long claimed to be a scapegoat for superiors including former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez and Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller."
http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/2007/02/is-lindsey-graham-homo-doe
s-pope-go.html

Republicans Make Lindsey Graham’s Sexuality an Issue
http://gaycharleston.ccpblogs.com/2008/05/27/republicans-make-lindsey-
grahams-sexuality-an-issue/

Equal Time

Quote:
Surge 'Suceeded Beyond Our Wildest Dreams,' Obama Now Says

September 05, 2008

The troop surge in Iraq has “succeeded beyond our wildest dreams,” Sen. Barack Obama conceded in an interview with Bill O'Reilly that aired on the Fox News Channel Thursday night.

On Thursday, O’Reilly urged Obama to admit he was wrong about the surge.

“I think that the surge has succeeded in ways that nobody anticipated -- by the way, including President Bush and the other supporters. It has gone very well,” Obama conceded.

In his interview with “The O’Reilly Factor,” Obama listed America’s enemies in the war on terror as Al Qaeda, the Taliban, and a “whole host of networks that are bent on attacking America who have a distorted ideology, who have perverted the faith of Islam -- and so we have to go after them,” he said.

www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=35226

Obama is Gay, says his gay lover Larry Sinclair
www.rense.com/general81/sincc.htm

Quote:
Five years ago last week, the U.S. military's "shock and awe" campaign lit up the Baghdad sky. Five years later, with hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and nearly 4,000 Americans dead, we should pause and reflect on just what has been gained and what has been lost.

From the beginning, the march to war was paved with false assumptions and lies. Senior administration officials claimed repeatedly that Iraq was somehow responsible for the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. They claimed that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. They manipulated the fear of the American people after 9/11 to further a war agenda that they had been planning years before that attack. The mainstream media was complicit in this war propaganda.

Five years into the invasion and occupation of Iraq, untold hundreds of thousands of Iraqis are dead; some 2 million Iraqis have fled the country as refugees; and the Iraqi Christian community – one of the oldest in the world – has been decimated more completely than even under the Ottoman occupation or the rule of Saddam Hussein.

On the U.S. side, nearly 4,000 Americans have lost their lives fighting in Iraq, and many thousands more are horribly wounded. Our own senior military officers warn that our military is nearly broken by the strain of the Iraq occupation. The Veterans Administration is overwhelmed by the volume of disability claims from Iraq war veterans.

A study by Nobel Prize economist Joseph Stiglitz concludes that the cost of the war in Iraq could be at least $3 trillion. The economic consequences of our enormous expenditure in Iraq are beginning to make themselves known as we fall into recession and possibly worse.

Iraq war supporters claim that the "surge" of additional U.S. troops into Iraq has been a resounding success. I am not so confident. Under the "surge" policy the United States military has trained and equipped with deadly weapons those Iraqi militia members against whom they were fighting just months ago. I fear by arming and equipping opposing militias we are just setting the stage for a more tragic and dangerous explosion of violence, possibly aimed at U.S. troops in Iraq.

The sooner we withdraw, the better.

by Rep. Ron Paul MD USAF

www.antiwar.com/paul/?articleid=12577
www.ronpaulforpresident2008.com
www.campaignforliberty.org

Reality Check

US Iraq War DEAD 73,846 US soldiers, 1,620,906 disabled, 2.6-million dead Iraqis in non-stop 18-year war
NSFW http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/piratenewsrss/message/376

"By God we've kicked Vietnam Syndrome once and for all."
-Sir George Bush Sr Knight of the British Empire in 1991

"Half of writing history is hiding the truth."
-Capt Malcolm Reynolds, Serenity

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 4:27 AM

The TRUTH about Sarah "Playuh" Painin continues to be obscured - by herself and McLame's staff more than anyone else:

In an August 14 interview with Time, Palin described herself as Christian and only when pressed did she state that she attends a non-denominational community church. No mention is made of her conversion in the Wasilla Assemblies of God church as a teen and her long stay there until 2002.

...maybe Palin is trying to avoid the "Jeremiah Wright" treatment being given to the Reverend Ed Kalnins, pastor of the Wasilla AG church. USA TODAY cites a Huffington Post source: "Kalnins has preached that critics of President Bush will be banished to hell; questioned whether people who voted for Sen. John Kerry in 2004 would be accepted into heaven; and preached that the Sept. 11 attacks and the war in Iraq were part of a world war over Christianity.

http://www.chron.com/channel/houstonbelief/commons/persona.html?newspa
perUserId=kengurley&plckController=PersonaBlog&plckScript=personaScript&plckElementId=personaDest&plckPersonaPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3AkengurleyPost%3A12162c31-9c19-4cde-950e-7ad2feac5379

If you don't like the hearsay element of all that, get it straight from the pit-bull's mouth: http://cgi.fark.com/cgi/fark/vidplayer.pl?IDLink=3845739

Yay! Four more years of destroying the separation of church and state! Four more years of watching America, land of the free, turn into a fundamentalist state to rival the Repubs image of kill-for-Allah Islam! How about a kill-for-Jesus party folks?

And here we have McLame again trying to manipulate the press, crying foul and staying home to pout because a reporter called out McSame's campaign spokesman:

BROWN: If I can interrupt for one second because I've heard you guys say this a lot. Can you tell me one decision that she made as commander in chief of the Alaska National Guard, just one?

BOUNDS: Yeah. She's made -- any decision she has made as the commander of the National Guard that's deployed overseas is more of a decision Barack Obama's been making as he's been running for the president for the last two years.

BROWN: So tell me. Tell me. Give me an example of one of those decisions. I'm curious, just one decision she made in her capacity as commander in chief of the National Guard.

BOUNDS: Campbell, certainly you don't mean to belittle, every experience, every judgment she makes as commander --

BROWN: I'm belittling nothing. I want to know one judgment or one decision. I want to know what one decision was. I'm not belittling anything, I am curious.

BOUNDS: As she makes a decision how to equip or how to command the national guard in Alaska, that is more --

BROWN: But Tucker, those are the Pentagon's decision, that's Gen. Petraeus, that's the White House.

BOUNDS: Pardon me?

BROWN: No governor makes decisions how to equip or deploy the National Guard. When they go to Iraq, those are decisions made by the Pentagon.

BOUNDS: Campbell, on factual basis, they certainly do. In Alaska, if I have an emergency in your state, the National Guard is under the command of the governor. That is more of a command role than Barack Obama has ever had. I would argue John McCain and Gov. Palin between the two of them have far more command experience in military than either of the candidates on the Democratic side.

I do want to argue this is about the top of the ticket. Ultimately when people go into the ballot box and decide between Barack Obama and John McCain, they will decide between John McCain's record of reforming Washington and Barack Obama's rhetoric on the campaign trail, doesn't have a lot of experience, certainly has no command or military experience, which both our candidates have. That's an important distinction I think voters will make the right call in November.

BROWN: All right. Tucker, I'm just going to give it to you, baby. We'll end it there.

BOUNDS: Appreciate it.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/05/brown.bounds/index.html?iref=ne
wssearch

Yes another example of the Repub way: throw a smoke screen rather than admit that Palin has no foreign policy experience. Caught in a lie much?

Brava Brown, for not letting him weasel out!

Oh yeah, but back to that party we were having...

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 4:49 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

AIP member Gov Palin at Alaska Independence Party (Seccession from USA)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7425256239173149474&vt=lf&hl=e
n

Quote:
Originally posted by swish:
The TRUTH about Sarah "Playuh" Painin continues to be obscured - by herself and McLame's staff more than anyone else:

...maybe Palin is trying to avoid the "Jeremiah Wright" treatment being given to the Reverend Ed Kalnins, pastor of the Wasilla AG church. USA TODAY cites a Huffington Post source: "Kalnins has preached that critics of President Bush will be banished to hell; questioned whether people who voted for Sen. John Kerry in 2004 would be accepted into heaven; and preached that the Sept. 11 attacks and the war in Iraq were part of a world war over Christianity.

Yeah, Bohemian Grove is where Christians go to worship. So Palin really has joined the pod people.

Quote:

Boners at Bohemian Grove
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2740234893142263113
http://garageband.com/artist/countercoup

Snuff Kiddie Porn at Bohemian Grove
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=6497462494231069386
http://one.revver.com/watch/248515

Dark Secrets Inside Bohemian Grove and The Order of Death
http://www.archive.org/details/DSIBG
http://www.lastingnetworks.com/alex/
http://www.infowars.com/bg1.html

Moloch.
an ancient Phoenician and Ammonite god, to whom children were sacrificed by burning.
-Webster's New World Dictionary

"And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones. And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name. And if the people of the land do any ways hide their eyes from the man, when he giveth of his seed unto Molech, and kill him not: Then I will set my face against that man, and against his family, and will cut him off, and all that go a whoring after him, to commit whoredom with Molech, from among their people."
-Leviticus 20:1-5, Christian Bible KJV

"And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father. Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon."
-1 Kings 11:6-7, Christian Bible KJV

"But it's not just the ratty part of town. The upper class in San Francisco is that way. The Bohemian Grove, which I attend from time to time - it is the most faggy goddamn thing that you would ever imagine with that San Francisco crowd. I can't shake hands with anybody from San Francisco."
-President Richard "Dick" Nixon, White House audiotape, Nixon Presidential Library, 1971
http://www.prisonplanet.com/032604nixontape.html (audio download)

"I'm not going to end up tied down to a Pentagram with Henry Kissenger standing over me naked with his fat belly hanging out, holding a dagger in his hand, am I?"
—Alex Jones, from Jones' undercover video Dark Secrets, as Jon Ronson was briefing Jones on how to infiltrate the Grove for British Channel 4 TV

“I’ve been up to Bohemian Grove. It was a bizarre experience to pee on a tree with Henry Kissinger and slam drinks with William F. Buckley.”
-Actor George Wendt (Teddy Bears Picnic mockumentary about Bohemian Grove)

"THE HANGMAN EQUALS DEATH!
THE DEVIL EQUALS DEATH!
DEATH EQUALS DEATH!"
-Initiation ritual human sacrifice at Yale University's Skull & Bones Senior Secret Society, New Haven, Connecticut (Ron Rosenbaum, New York Observer, "At Skull and Bones, Bush's Secret Club Initiates Ream Gore," 4/2/01)
www.prisonplanet.com/initiates_ream_gore.html

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 5:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The TRUTH about Sarah Palin is that she's one of the most beloved Governors in the nation, with a very high approval rating.

Your distortions and lies about her MAYORIAL days are going to back fire. Hell, the mere fact she took on the establishment, the good ole boy network in her OWN PARTY, as well as the Democrats, AND WON , shows just how late to the table you are w/ the petty, jealous smear campaign.

You are 100% dead on. Their lies and distortions are only FUELING the Palin revolution, adding log upon log to the fire. Can you possibly imagine what Hollywood and media liberals are going through now? I almost feel sorry for them, and I do pity them. They've UNLEASHED THE KRAKEN~! Wait until Monday when the full Rassmusson & Gallop Poll numbers come out with complete post-convention samplings. I'm anticipating that McCain will be ahead, and I expect his numbers to only improve dramatically until Election Day with Palin leading the way for him.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 5:15 AM

Riverlove, if I can interrupt for one second because I've heard you guys say this a lot. Can you tell me one decision that Palin made as commander in chief of the Alaska National Guard, just one?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 5:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by swish:
Riverlove, if I can interrupt for one second because I've heard you guys say this a lot. Can you tell me one decision that Palin made as commander in chief of the Alaska National Guard, just one?

Glad to Swish. As Governor, she just recently signed executive orders deploying part of Alaska's National Guard to go to Lousiana to provide Hurricane relief assistance. I guess you didn't ever hear that story from your news sources. The Commander of the Alaska National Guard, a 25+ year veteran says that Palin is the best he's ever seen in his life. A super-quick study of any situation, she is fully supported by her troops and other state's as well. Louisiana's Republican Governor Bobby Jindal asked Palin for assistance and she responded with action. She didn't say "present."

She also has daily briefings on National Guard matters, and she oversees the budget, civilian employment, and operations for her troops. The National Guard operates independently of the Federal Govt. She is an EXECUTIVE, something Obama & Biden have never been. And she goes to Iraq and Afghanistan to visit her troops stationed there too. Quite a lady, huh?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 5:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
Glad to Swish. She just recently signed orders deploying part of Alaska's National Guard to go to Lousiana to provide Hurricane relief assistance.

Hmm. Too bad Tucker Bounds couldn't think of that answer LOL!

I should have worded better though - the discussion in the interview I posted (did you read my post, btw?) was about foreign policy experience. Sending aid to domestic hurricane victims has NOTHING to do with foreign policy experience. Any tool can order aid to folks who obviously need it! (Well, except for the idiots in charge during Katrina...)

Quote:
The Commander of the Alaska National Guard, a 25+ year veteran says that Palin is the best he's ever seen in his life. A super-quick study of any situation, she is fully supported by her troops and other state's as well.

So you've asked them all? Each one? And do you have a source to reference?

Quote:
Louisiana's Republican Governor Bobby Jindal asked Palin for assistance and she responded with action. She didn't say "present."

Way to quote the party line, and rely on a fairly lame endorsement of a fellow Repub. Not very convincing. The only reason it's commentable that someone replied to a call for aid is that they so blatantly DIDN'T during Katrina.

BTW, any response to the material in any of my previous posts? Material that was backed up with references, I might add.

Did you even read those articles, or just close eyes, plug ears, and continue chanting the party mantra?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 5:46 AM

I was praying last night & God told me to vote for Ms. Palin; that's good enough for me.

Chrisisall

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 5:46 AM

Oops - you added this after I replied...

Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
She also has daily briefings on National Guard matters, and she oversees the budget, civilian employment, and operations for her troops. The National Guard operates independently of the Federal Govt.

Are you high? Obviously you're smoking something, or just not real edumacated...

"WASHINGTON -- Seeking to buttress the foreign policy credentials of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, Republicans have repeatedly cited the vice presidential nominee's experience as commander of the Alaska National Guard.

As governor, Palin oversees military units whose duties include serving overseas, search-and-rescue missions across the state's vast landscape and manning key elements of the U.S. missile defense system at Ft. Greely.

But foreign deployments of Guard units and the operation of national defense assets like the Ft. Greely missile interceptors are not the responsibility of state governors. Those functions come under the regular U.S. military chain of command.

Commanding the Alaska National Guard is hardly an insignificant job, military officials say. Still, they acknowledge that it provides little, if any, foreign policy experience."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-guard6-2008sep06,
0,6887188.story

Quote:
She is an EXECUTIVE, something Obama & Biden have never been.

Nor McCain. Let's drop the other three and put Painin in charge! Of course, if the only reason we should do that is all that executive experience she got as guvnuh, we ought to go with one of the seventeen of twenty two Republican governers who have more time in office than your dear Sarah. ( http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Pres/Maps/Sep03.html)

Quote:
And she goes to Iraq and Afghanistan to visit her troops stationed there too. Quite a lady, huh?

Didn't Marilyn Monroe visit troops too? Damn! We should'a voted her in rather than JFK! Talk about a lady!

http://asianhistory.about.com/od/warsinasia/ig/Korean-War-Photos/Maril
yn-Monroe-in-Korea.htm

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 5:49 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I was not aware of this information, River. I'm surprised it isn't being given greater publicity. I'll mark this in the 'good on her' category, to offset some of the things in the other column.

In the end, every politician is a combination of deeds and misdeeds, and it's important to catalog both of them, not just the propaganda useful to your personal worldview. It would be nice if those attacking her realized that she isn't a demon spawned from hell, and if those defending her realized she wasn't an Angel visiting from heaven, but rather a human person with many qualities.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 5:50 AM

The Alaska National Guard Commander was interviewed on camera at length for a new documentary which is airing on a cable news show. I saw it, and I heard what he had to say. I didn't say the Guardsmen liked & respected her, he did. OK, He did. Can you understand the difference.

On your "present" jab at me..why? Don't you know Obama's voting record? You can look it up easily. A vast majority of the time he could not vote on something with a yes or no, as is required by law to actually mean something. He votes "present", which means what exactly? I'm not going to respond to any more of your posts because you're not sincere or honest. I understand why, what has happened to your hopes. It'll be ok.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 5:57 AM

I'm not out to attack Palin, I'm attacking the flaccid arguments being used to support this joke of a nomination. I want my country to be better than a battle of personalities, a bundle of lies, and leaders who will continue Bush's history of destroying what's good about America.

I won't deny that I don't like Palin much, and I'm not about to act like I do just to be polite. She's out to lead my country, to represent me and mine on the world stage. I damned well better speak up while I can!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 5:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

I was not aware of this information, River. I'm surprised it isn't being given greater publicity. I'll mark this in the 'good on her' category, to offset some of the things in the other column.

In the end, every politician is a combination of deeds and misdeeds, and it's important to catalog both of them, not just the propaganda useful to your personal worldview. It would be nice if those attacking her realized that she isn't a demon spawned from hell, and if those defending her realized she wasn't an Angel visiting from heaven, but rather a human person with many qualities.

--Anthony

There are several specials planned. You won't see them on MSNBC or CNN. The Commander Of the Alaskan National Guard, Soldiers in Iraq & Afghanistan, the current Mayor of Wasilla, the people of Wasilla, colleagues, friends, and opponents are all on camera. 80+% approval rating my friend is no easy task for any politician anywhere. Fought corruption, fought oil companies on behalf of the people. I love this gal!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 5:59 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And she goes to Iraq and Afghanistan to visit her troops stationed there too. Quite a lady, huh?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Didn't Marilyn Monroe visit troops too? Damn! We should'a voted her in rather than JFK! Talk about a lady!

Hello,

This is an example of what I'm speaking of. You may have many reasons not to like Palin as a VP candidate, but visiting National Guard troops while they are stationed overseas is nothing but commendable. There's nothing there to snark at or make fun of. I doubt anyone would argue that visiting troops overseas is the sole qualifying factor for presidential leadership, but surely we can all agree that doing so is a good and positive thing that belongs in the "I like that about her" column of the tally sheet.

By goodness, there's nothing wrong with credit where credit is due. It's okay to like things about her. It doesn't mean you have to vote for her. It's not necessary to turn the contrast on the old television so high that everyone is black and white without any shade of gray.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 6:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by swish:
I'm not out to attack Palin, I'm attacking the flaccid arguments being used to support this joke of a nomination. I want my country to be better than a battle of personalities, a bundle of lies, and leaders who will continue Bush's history of destroying what's good about America.

I won't deny that I don't like Palin much, and I'm not about to act like I do just to be polite. She's out to lead my country, to represent me and mine on the world stage. I damned well better speak up while I can!

Swish, I'll renege, and respond one more time. YOU simply tell me why Obama is more qualified for President than Palin would be, even though she's only running for VP. WHY IS SHE A JOKE, AND OBAMA ISN'T?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 6:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

Quote:

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And she goes to Iraq and Afghanistan to visit her troops stationed there too. Quite a lady, huh?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Didn't Marilyn Monroe visit troops too? Damn! We should'a voted her in rather than JFK! Talk about a lady!

Hello,

This is an example of what I'm speaking of. You may have many reasons not to like Palin as a VP candidate, but visiting National Guard troops while they are stationed overseas is nothing but commendable. There's nothing there to snark at or make fun of. I doubt anyone would argue that visiting troops overseas is the sole qualifying factor for presidential leadership, but surely we can all agree that doing so is a good and positive thing that belongs in the "I like that about her" column of the tally sheet.

By goodness, there's nothing wrong with credit where credit is due. It's okay to like things about her. It doesn't mean you have to vote for her. It's not necessary to turn the contrast on the old television so high that everyone is black and white without any shade of gray.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

And Anthony, Sarah Palin didn't go there to entertain on a stage. She visited them in their barracks, in the hospitals, and in the mess hall. She knows their families back home. The Marilyn Monroe comparsion is just another in a long line of absurd attempted denigrations against her.

And by the way, no disrespect to Miss Monroe ever intended. Her volunteerism and support of our troops in Korea was admirable and courageous, something today that Hollywood's 90% of pinheads don't do.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 6:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
The Alaska National Guard Commander was interviewed on camera at length for a new documentary which is airing on a cable news show. I saw it, and I heard what he had to say. I didn't say the Guardsmen liked & respected her, he did. OK, He did. Can you understand the difference.

Check again. What you said was: "A super-quick study of any situation, she is fully supported by her troops and other state's as well." This was YOU saying this. Not anyone else. No reference given. No "I heard this on TV".

Can you see now why it's good to show your sources, rather than throwing out a unreferenced statement? Was I supposed to read your mind and know where you got that?

I'll check out the interview if I can... Not on MSNBC or CNN? What is it on then? If you want any material to back up your statements, you have to let your debaters see your sources. That's just how it works!

Quote:
On your "present" jab at me..why?

Which jab is this? Seriously, I'm not sure what you're responded to. I said nothing about the "present" vote thing.

Oh... I see, you're dwelling on this because you have no defense of my reply to your statements about Palin's foreign policy experience, executive experience, honesty, etc...

No need to reply. I see how it is. Sincerely,

from the bottom of my heart, I believe your defense of Sarah Palin to be a concrete as any other I've encountered. Which is to say: pretty much baseless.

And even if you don't like my tone, you have to admit that I've replied to your statements with sourced counter arguments. Guess, like Tucker Bounds, your talking points can't handle direct questioning.

Added to your later post: BTW, I never said Obama was more qualified. I never mentioned Obama. My posts have all been about Palin. Changing the subject much?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 6:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
WHY IS SHE A JOKE, AND OBAMA ISN'T?

I'll tell ya why, 'cause she's a gorram nut, that's why.
See, if her daughter was raped by an insane killer, she's want her daughter to have the kid, so it might have the chance to grow up & express the genetic traits of the father, get arrested, hopefully before killing/raping too many, and spend the rest of his life in prison, which we, the public, would pay for.
That's nutz in my book, is it in yours?

If McCain wins, he'd better ruttin' stay alive!!!

isall

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 6:17 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

It must be nice to get a visit from someone back home. Someone who can bring relevant news about what's going on, and how things are. Someone who can help you stay connected in a place that must seem so very far away.

Do we know her position on supporting the military legislatively? Sadly, many Republican leaders have a great emotional swell and connection to the troops, but fail to take advantage of opportunities to support them with law and loot. Mccain recently disappointed me in failing to support legislation that would have increased higher-learning dollars for our men in the sand.

What is Palin's position on such things? If given the opportunity, would she support more tangible boons for our troops, such as pay increases, better retirement and health benefits, expansion of the GI Bill, and housing? I've always wanted to make the military a competitive job opportunity. The sort of job people would want to spend a lifetime doing. I dream of a military filled with a majority of veterans who have served for a dozen or more years and plan to retire in the uniform. Will Palin help to make that a reality?

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 6:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
This is an example of what I'm speaking of. You may have many reasons not to like Palin as a VP candidate, but visiting National Guard troops while they are stationed overseas is nothing but commendable.

And this is an example of missing the point. RiverLove used Palin's visit to Iraq and Afghanistan in a debate about foreign policy expertise, as if the visit proves her capable of holding the VP office.

My point is: yeah, lots of people visit war zones. More of us would if we could, because we want to support our troops as much as possible. Does that alone make us worthy of holding high office?

Fine if you like Palin for it. But River didn't start this thread to say she liked Palin. She was quite clear in her point: that the Dems are dead and Repubs are taking over *because of the Pain choice.* And why? Because Palin visited Iraq?

Try again.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 6:19 AM

Hmmm. And the Obama's don't give their two lovely children Birthday or Christmas presents, as the quote went in People. That kind of personal family stuff Chris is already blowing up in atomic proportions in all your faces, but if you insist, go for it.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 6:25 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
Hmmm. And the Obama's don't give their two lovely children Birthday or Christmas presents, as the quote went in People. That kind of personal family stuff Chris is already blowing up in atomic proportions in all your faces, but if you insist, go for it.

Hello,

River, it's really no one's business who gets presents of what type in the Obama family. I know plenty of decent people who don't even believe in the concept of birthday celebrations or Christmas either, seeing them as just another day on the calendar.

Respect must be offered in all directions. Your personal view on Holidays does not serve to make Obama a bad family man. I've seen no evidence to suggest he's anything but a genuinely good person. He may have different views from your own, but that makes him no more worthy of bashing than Palin is for the Democrats.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 6:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
Hmmm. And the Obama's don't give their two lovely children Birthday or Christmas presents, as the quote went in People.

As usual, you 'party line' types compare harmless quirks with potentially DEADLY patterns of thought.
Just like how "Bush lied; people died" gets the comeback "Yeah, well Clinton lied to Congress about his blowjob"- ooohhh, good comparisons, guys.

Chrisisall

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 6:31 AM

And finally, Swish - Am I supposed to be Walter Cronkite or something here? Do you think all my posts are vetted and accredited by a staff of aides? These are obviously all just my opinions. It's all a metaphor for the present and future dramatic shift of tide in this election and in this culture. My statements are not, and never have been lies or gross distortions. You insist on obtusely parsing every written word. Good luck in the election.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 6:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
These are obviously all just my opinions.

WHAT???
You don't bother with FACTS???!
Time out for you, young man.

GRRRRRisall

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 6:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
These are obviously all just my opinions.
WHAT???
You don't bother with FACTS???!
Time out for you, young man.

GRRRRRisall

You going to tell me to shut up next dude? I won't, as you know, but I am a little tired with this current crop of posters. See you later.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 6:41 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
These are obviously all just my opinions.
WHAT???
You don't bother with FACTS???!
Time out for you, young man.

GRRRRRisall

You going to tell me to shut up next dude? I won't, as you know, but I am a little tired with this current crop of posters. See you later.

Hello,

An unfortunate exit. I had some legitimate questions about Palin's stance on the military.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 6:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
And finally, Swish - Am I supposed to be Walter Cronkite or something here? Do you think all my posts are vetted and accredited by a staff of aides? These are obviously all just my opinions. It's all a metaphor for the present and future dramatic shift of tide in this election and in this culture. My statements are not, and never have been lies or gross distortions. You insist on obtusely parsing every written word. Good luck in the election.

ROFLMAO!!!! Oh my god, this really is good... First you get upset that I didn't magically know that your stated opinion was not yours, and now you want me to accept that everything you say is just your opinion? Make up your mind!

And please don't go into politics or anything that requires public debate. Metaphorical mishmash will not serve you well in this arena.

Anthony, I missed replying to your admirable effort to get this thread onto issues. I also am curious as to Palin's idea of troop support. I've found nothing about it. But then, she didn't exactly focus on issues in her speech, did she?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 7:14 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

To be honest, I find political candidates, in general, to be woefully short on specifics.

Just once I'd like to see a political speech where a screen descends from the ceiling, the lights go out, and a projector turns on. Then, the candidate goes into a power-point presentation, explaining step-by-step what their policies are and how they expect to see these policies affect the nation.

But I guess that's not exciting. Instead we get a lot of rhetoric from all sides, and very few specifics. This is not a condemnation of any particular politician or party, but rather all of them. 'Fire them up' oratory is fine, but I'd prefer a university style lecture with some data behind it.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 7:21 AM

ERIC

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

Just once I'd like to see a political speech where a screen descends from the ceiling, the lights go out, and a projector turns on. Then, the candidate goes into a power-point presentation, explaining step-by-step what their policies are and how they expect to see these policies affect the nation.

Ever find yourself actually missing Ross Perot's visual aids?

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 7:26 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Belatedly - welcome to the chaos and turbulence that is RWED, Swish.

EDIT: Actually yes, Eric - I didn't think much of his scheme cause of the near dictatorial power he would have required to pull it off, leaving a wide open door for later abuse, mind you...

But that man sure knew how to give a presentation, didn't he ?

-F

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 7:26 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

There is indeed something to be said for treating a political candidacy like a meeting of the Board of Directors.

To quote a fictional character from a great movie, "It's all about the Information!"

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 7:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

Quote:

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And she goes to Iraq and Afghanistan to visit her troops stationed there too. Quite a lady, huh?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Didn't Marilyn Monroe visit troops too? Damn! We should'a voted her in rather than JFK! Talk about a lady!

Hello,

This is an example of what I'm speaking of. You may have many reasons not to like Palin as a VP candidate, but visiting National Guard troops while they are stationed overseas is nothing but commendable. There's nothing there to snark at or make fun of. I doubt anyone would argue that visiting troops overseas is the sole qualifying factor for presidential leadership, but surely we can all agree that doing so is a good and positive thing that belongs in the "I like that about her" column of the tally sheet.

By goodness, there's nothing wrong with credit where credit is due. It's okay to like things about her. It doesn't mean you have to vote for her. It's not necessary to turn the contrast on the old television so high that everyone is black and white without any shade of gray.

Aw, fer cryin' outloud, Anthony! I like myself a good deal and I'm very fond of my cats, but I know perfectly well neither my cats nor I are qualified to be the freakin' President of the United States of American! Visiting troops requires no more expertise than going to spring break in Cabo.

There are no shades of grey with this--it's irrelevent. She is the Empiror's New Clothes. Palin's running for VP would be a human interest story at best, if not for the Republican machine so suddenly behind her. All this guff about her being "the most beloved governor in the country" is based on 20 months of serving in that office--it's still the honey moon and she beat out a corrupt jackass, by all accounts. And part of that approval rating in Alaska comes from her giving every Alaskan kickbacks from federal pork. In essence, she took yours and my federal tax dollars to buy her glowing approval rating.

They're making the democratic process itself into a farce. She represented no one on a national scale until the king makers in the GOP handed her this gig last week. There are scores of more qualified people in that party than her, men and women. Qualified for the office, I mean.

We're talking about the Presidency of the United States of American! So, really, what I'm gathering from all this is that the only qualification one needs to be President is popularity. Our democracy as finally dumbed down absolutely to the level of High School. I should be looking for Sarah Palin's name scrawled in colored chalk on the sidewalk surrounded by hearts and stars. If enough people like your produc--excuse me, candidate, well that's that. As Steve Colbert would say, the market has spoken!

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 7:44 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:

The party's over indeed, for the Democrats that is. Thanks to their rabid legions of defenders of liberalism pre-speech vitriolic attacks against Sarah Palin and her family, they have doomed themselves into extinction. They have set the stage, and they have ignited and elevated Sarah to instantly become an ideological icon. An icon that represents almost everything that the Left despises, but rings oh so true to so many millions of people. How dare they criticize her love of family, her ability to govern while still loving and caring for her family. Did they ever ask a man that? They prefer the Clinton style of family obviously, separate parents with a single child. How downright stupid or desperate or both are they to go after an 80% approval rating Governor, a woman with a track record of successfully defeating all her opponents? Are they totally nuts? With respects to Helen Reddy, Palin is woman, hear her roar. Oh, the hardcore Left will hold on for a while, but where are the "feminists"; oh that's right , you can be a family woman with a career, just as long as you subscribe to the social and political positions that NOW, Oprah, NARAL, Planned Parenthoood, et al fully support, which is Obama. And they indeed have a right to support positions and candidates. But don't try to con anyone that you are independent and care about women, all women. That game ends with Sarah Palin. She will be everywhere, all the time now thanks to the tidal wave of both love and admiration for this great woman, and the extreme backlash against the political, media, and celebrity attackers. She's going to be a great campaigner, and will attract millions of new and independent voters to her causes. Her one debate with Biden will be maybe bigger than the 2 Presidential debates. An event of historic importance. The clashing of two worlds in many ways. I wonder what the Jihadist terrorists think of her. And something tells me that the Europeans and world leaders are going to love her too. Oprah's passing on Sarah, so will Ellen have her on? She danced so cutely with Barack, will she dance with Sarah?

What the hell are you talking about? I keep "hearing" about all the vitriol being spat by democrats - but funny thing I haven't actually HEARD any democrats spewing - so SPECIFICALLY what the hell are you talking about? Fox news talking about the democrats spewing or Rush or some other vitriol spewing hater?

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 7:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
To be honest, I find political candidates, in general, to be woefully short on specifics.

Nature of an evil business. Anyone who talks in specifies gets crucified.

Yeah, Ross Perot tried. And Gore had a movie that was really just a glorified ppt presentation. Was that a success or not? Hard to tell - it did get the global warming ball rolling, but he also got criticized quite a bit.

I'm with you, though Anthony. In my dream world this whole political circus becomes something more dignified and informative. Which is maybe why I have to attack arguments like Riverlove's - we won't get an informed government until we insist on being educated, not inflamed. Folks shouting their opinions from treetops day after day, with no regard as to whether their theories fit reality, is going to get us nothing but more Bush and Cheney.

Thanks Frem!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 8:00 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"I doubt anyone would argue that visiting troops overseas is the sole qualifying factor for presidential leadership"

Hello HKCavalier,

If you read above, you may recognize my statement that visiting troops overseas is not a sole qualifying criteria for a presidential post. I'll go further and say it's not even in the top twenty. But does it matter? Yes, absolutely. I want my leaders to extend every possible boon and benefit to our soldiers, including emotional comfort and support. It does matter to me that a potential leader has evidenced their care for our military by investing their bodily person and time in an effort to comfort them. Doesn't that matter to you?

Suggesting that anyone is making an Iraq or Afghani visit into the number one most important thing about a V.P. is swerving widely around the truth. So is suggesting that it doesn't matter at all.

It's okay to say, "Visiting the troops? That's a quality I admire in a leader."

The thing that bothers me about politics is how polarized it becomes, to the point where people become unable to see anything positive in their 'foes' and can only see positive things about their 'friends.'

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 8:16 AM

Hey Anthony,

We're trying to determine if this virtually unknown Governor of a tiny population is qualified to be President of the United States. I think a candidate should be solidly qualified in at least, let's say, half of those top 20 catagories before we begin to consider her as an actual candidate. With Palin, people are skipping these top catagories and going straight to "She's from a small town!!!!" "She hunts moose!!!!" At this point, issues of poise and good will ambassadorship should not be on the table. They come after you've qualified on the basics, whatever you consider those basics to be, right? Otherwise, every first lady we've ever had should have been president.

I know people get polarized, but the solution is not some abitrary even-handedness, "Well, Bush bungled the Iraq war, but he sure plays a mean harmonica!"

All we got--all McCain has got!--are first impressions with this candidate. My first impression is terribly unfavorable, I gotta say. That speech of hers was an embarrassment to the democratic process. Low-ball snark and flat-out lies. Remember when folks used to talk about "presidential" as a quality in a candidate? Way back, oh, last week, I guess?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 8:46 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello HKCavalier,

Ah, but you're missing my point here.

The fact that concern for military personnel isn't in your top twenty list of important things doesn't make it wholly unimportant nor worthy of mockery. I consider it to be much more important, say, than playing the harmonica. Or even the saxaphone.

I consider it to be much more important than whether a candidate gives birthday presents to their kids.

I consider it to be much more important than whether a candidate's teenage daughter is pregnant.

I consider it to be much more important than whether a candidate has hair plugs.

I consider it to be much more important than a host of truly unimportant things that have surfaced in this election. It may not score highest, but it does score and it is not worthy of mockery.

I'll tell you the other sides of that coin: Following up emotional support of the troops with material support IS in my top-twenty most valuable leadership traits list. Visiting her National Guard troops could be vital if it also describes her stance on legislation to support them. On the other hand, if she is willing to visit them but NOT willing to push for more benefits for them, then THAT TOO IS VITAL INFORMATION, because it would show that her support is shallow and hollow, lacking depth or substance.

Someone mocked, and loudly, (I paraphrase) "Marilyn Monroe visited the troops, too! Does that make her VP material?!"

To that I answer, "No. But if Marilyn Monroe was up for V.P., then her stance on troop support would be a very important thing to know, for reasons I've made very clear."

I'll go on and surprise you with some other news. The fact that she hunts is also very important to me. It means she recognizes sportsman's rights and the value of the second ammendment. THAT GOES IN THE TOP TWENTY, TOO!

You know what else goes in the top twenty? The possibility that she used her power to settle a personal vendetta. IF she is proved guilty of that charge, it will mean that she is willing to use her power to hurt those who offend her. I am not comfortable with that.

You know what else goes in the top twenty? She wanted to ban books. This is a policy I don't agree with under any circumstances. Free Speech and Open Learning are important to me.

What you won't see me do is ignore either her good or her bad traits. It all matters, and it's all worth noting. We ought not to pooh pooh the good qualities along with the bad just because we don't like her. We ought not to overlook the bad stuff and champion the good stuff just because we do like her.

Fairness, Even-handedness, and all the shades of gray and all the colors I can absorb.

Thanks,

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 9:00 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

AnthonyT

I actually agreed with 99.5% of your post. Then you trotted out the 2nd amendment "sportsman" thing.

The Second Amendment to the Costitution had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with sport hunting, skeet shooting or target practice. What it DID have to do with was whether or not individuals should be allowed to protect their home and community from invasion by arming themselves. This was due to the fact that historically in England arming oneself without express permission from the King was an act of treason.

I really wish all the pro-gun NRA people would stop trying top make it mean something it doesn't.

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 9:33 AM

MAL4PREZ

Oops. Sorry. Wrong thread!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 10:00 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I actually think that the 2nd ammendment was enacted to enable citizenry to overthrow their government.

But it doesn't matter WHY the 2nd ammendment was enacted, really. We can argue that some other time. As long as you let the citizens keep their guns. That part is unambiguous.

The thing could say, "Because shiny metal objects are cool, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." It really doesn't matter why, so much as what: The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

And a hunter who uses a gun is less likely to argue for guns to be outlawed. That's why it's important. (to me)

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 10:09 AM

But Anthony,

A trip to visit the troops does not a policy make. You have to add a lot of ancillary provisos before her visit becomes presidential rather than simple, sentimental pandering. We've seen that sort of thing a lot from the Republicans. Lip service to support and disregard in their policies. What gets me is that the Republicans think they can run on sentimentality and personality (cult of personality?) alone.

I appreciate how important our troops have become in the national consciousness since Gulf War I. One of the great consequences of that conflict was that it healed a wound in our nation that had been festering since the Vietnam war--the profoundly unjust scapegoating of the troops for the horrors they were subjected to and participated in. A genuine commitment to our troops is a very important characteristic of a CiC. No question about it.

And I can see how a sportsman might appreciate that the President of the United States is also a sportsman. But, I'm sorry. I'm a writer and I greatly appreciate that Obama has actually written a couple books and is clearly capable of writing exceptionally lucid and heart-felt speeches. It speaks to qualities of character, of sincerity and personal integrity, critical thinking skills that I find enormously refreshing in a presidential candidate.

Bu-uh-ut!

I don't think anyone should be crowing, "Vote Obama! He writes books!" Being President of the United States is not about writing books and it's not about shooting moose either.

The burden of proof, as it were, is on Palin to show me that she's got what it takes to RUN OUR COUNTRY. That's the job she's applying for! And so far, she has done NOTHING to convince me that she's anywhere near that league. Not anywhere near! And, from the look of things, she doesn't look like she'll be even trying any time soon.

Reading the news this week is like a trip to Bizarro World where all you need is a clear speaking voice, a ready smile and to parrot all the right opinions to be a strong candidate for President of the United States of America. Her principle qualification is that she's willing to agree with the party line. That's it. That, and putting up with "Bad Touch Uncle" McCain's groping for a kiss after every appearance--for that she has my greatest sympathy.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 10:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Someone mocked, and loudly, (I paraphrase) "Marilyn Monroe visited the troops, too! Does that make her VP material?!"

To that I answer, "No. But if Marilyn Monroe was up for V.P., then her stance on troop support would be a very important thing to know, for reasons I've made very clear."

But here you're twisting *my* post, Anthony. I thought I clarified my intent already, but let me do it again. Riverlove's mention of the troop visit was in the context that it constituted foreign policy experience for Palin - exactly the thing that you yourself say is silly. Well, not in the top 20 is how you word it. I say: silly. My post about Marilyn was to say: silly.

I was not mocking Palin's visit to the troops. (In earnest, I'm confused as to how you're seeing it that way!) I was mocking the assertion that a simple hand-shaking visit the troops makes a person a viable candidate for vice president of the US. It that's true of Palin, then it'd be true of... well, hell, Marilyn Monroe! That was my point.

Capiche? Why are we still talking about this?

Edit to add: I will say, Anthony, that I like how you call foul or add support to either side. Straight shooting guy for sure, and that's rare on the internets.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, September 6, 2008 10:46 AM