In Frantic Day, Wall Street Banks Teeter by rue

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

About 50% of the peeps would have to get their heads out of their butts first. They think

business is better
God is going to save them

---------------------------------
Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal

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Wednesday, September 17, 2008 4:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Hero, thanks. I think it's obvious that Greenspan's leadership of the Fed has been sorely missed.

I believe a lot of the problems we are now facing are a result of Greenspan's bad monetary policy decisions. Greenspan waited too long to raise interest rates during the Dot com bubble, then when he finally did burst the bubble he lowered interest rates too aggressively and kept them too low for too long causing the housing bubble. Bernanke is much smarter than Greenspan, but the former fed chief did'nt leave him much to work with. Bernanke might as well lower interest rates now because the market has already done it for him. Because of course we all know that the Fed doesn't set interest rates, the market does.

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Wednesday, September 17, 2008 6:06 PM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

So, ummmmm...

Now that "we the people" own an 80% stake in AIG, the world's largest insurance company...

Any chance we're going to get any insurance out of the deal?

Naaaahhhh - that's just crazy talk! No way would the government sign on for something as SOCIALIST as that.

Mike

This world is a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel.

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Wednesday, September 17, 2008 7:58 PM

OUT2THEBLACK

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
So, ummmmm...

Now that "we the people" own an 80% stake in AIG, the world's largest insurance company...

Any chance we're going to get any insurance out of the deal?

Naaaahhhh - that's just crazy talk! No way would the government sign on for something as SOCIALIST as that.

80% Stake...That's what we really own...Except for that part where WE REALLY DON'T...

We're just the chumps who have to PAY FOR IT !
Over and over again...

Insurance ?...For us peons...Surely You jest...Are you Mad ?

Yah , no way the Gum-or-Mint would expect US to atone for their sins...

See , that's the part where a lot of folk get a little mixed up , you know , what with 'the FED'(Reserve) and
'The FEDS'(Treasury) sounding so much ALIKE...

Nationalize a PRIVATE CORPORATION ?

You are So Right , that IS just CRAZY TALK , why THAT'd be National Socialism , right ?

Hey , let's be sure to ask for an Allodial TITLE with that , shall we ?

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Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:12 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Sure, why not.

I mean we already have the Komityet Gosudarstvennoy Bezopasnosty, right ?

Soon as I ever heard the words "Department of Homeland Security" - I knew how fucked we were and started digging in even deeper than my previous smoke and mirrors games.

I mean, how far down the slope is it really, to criticism of the Gov being tagged a "mental illness" resuling in forced medication "for your own good" and the gulag if that don't cut it ?

I mean goddamn, it's damn near worth a terrorism charge even now, innit ?

As for the drugs, and the camps...

We ALREADY do it to children, camps and all, who dare to act out against the crapsack world and mountain of debt, restrictions and liabilities we're going to dump on their heads.

Think about that a minute, kids ain't by any use of the word stupid, not till they've been taught to be, stripped of will and critical thought by a public "education" system designed to do exactly that - and when it doesn't work... the drugs, and when that don't work, the camps.

Do you REALLY think it's that much of a stretch to apply it to adults ?

Just imagine for a second that you were an up and coming, reasonably bright kid faced with a system that punished you at ever turn and corner for every original thought, every act of resistance no matter how minor in overwhelming fashion.

All the while being told how important this bullshit is to your *snicker* "Future" of de-facto slavery, monstrous debt, and work work work die to enrich the already rich a little more.

Would make you a little rambunctious, wouldn't it now ?

But the system culls people like me, like them, now - with ever increasing efficiency, taking anyone capable of eventual resistance and pacifying them, even if it means destroying them.

You want the troops, the minds and bodies in numbers sufficient to turn the tide, first you must stop the system from obliterating them before they're capable enough to resist it effectively.

And you should start HERE.

http://www.caica.org/
http://www.isaccorp.org/
http://www.teenliberty.org/
http://www.libertarianrock.com/topics/teencamps/teencampsindex.html
(EDIT: Disclaimer, since anyone with half a brain is going to notice anyhow, yes I have some personal affiliation with Libertarian Rock, the specifics of which are no one elses biz.)

Like I said in another post, this is a rabbit hole I have seen the bottom of, often enough to want frequent flyer miles for - and being crass and callous is the best protection against being emotionally destroyed by the scenery.

And I always, ALWAYS bring one back... sometimes they even make it.

You want folks who can and will stand up to this shit, YOU have to get to them before the system does, it's just that simple.

You wanna do something about it, DO something about it, then - get enough reinforcements to mean something by preventing their destruction.

Words don't earn loyalty, DEEDS earn loyalty.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Wednesday, September 17, 2008 11:45 PM

PARTICIPANT

U.S. FOIA documents suggest American interests now interfering in Canadian federal election 2008
http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/home/Frontpage/2008/09/15/02612.html

Quote:

SPP-NAU architects, also want to replace the Canadian Dollar as quickly as possible with an "Amero" -- a name coined by the NAU champion and U.S. academic Dr. Robert Pastor, for the currency of the NAU. If the SPP-NAU architects get their wish for a Stephen Harper majority government, reliable sources suggest that the Amero would replace the Canadian Dollar by late fall 2008. U.S. investigative journalists have already released evidence that the Amero has already been minted in Denver, and is ready to be transported into Canada. This evidence includes an Amero coin.

Canadians can expect the official reason to be that since the Canadian Dollar and U.S. Dollar have reached near parity, why not have a "common currency" to increase "prosperity". But the "prosperity" that they refer to is not for the masses, but the "elites". The Amero, is an apparent scheme to control monetary and other policy, by elites based in the United States, who can use the new currency along with parallel launched biometric technology to further execute an apparent fascistic agenda.

Harvard educated and investigative journalist Dr. Jerome Corsi, has also obtained FOIA documents, which reinforce apparent U.S. prompting of a Federal Election in Canada, and subsequent orchestration.

According to Dr. Jerome Corsi, the George W Bush administration "is running a shadow government without Congressional oversight in conjunction with Canada and Mexico, under the guise of a program “to increase security and to enhance prosperity among the three countries through greater cooperation.”

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Thursday, September 18, 2008 12:53 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

destroying the dollar

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Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:39 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I believe a lot of the problems we are now facing are a result of Greenspan's bad monetary policy decisions. Greenspan waited too long to raise interest rates during the Dot com bubble, then when he finally did burst the bubble he lowered interest rates too aggressively and kept them too low for too long causing the housing bubble.

Ayup! 100% agreed! Thanks for putting it so succinectly.

---------------------------------
Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal

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Thursday, September 18, 2008 6:51 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I agree that the interest-rate policies were flawed, but I'm not sure that's the total problem.

I remember when many countries were complaining about the low US rates b/c they wanted to raise theirs and couldn't, as long as the US rates were low. But even with those very same policies in place and despite international grumbling the US remained economically strong. Remember when Asian currencies were collapsing like dominoes and money was fleeing to the US stock market ? And the economy remained strong despite the global recession of 2000- 2001. Finally, the dot com bubble bursting was a relatively short-lived problem and limited to a small sector of the economy. At that time the US government had room to maneuver because the dollar was strong, the government was getting out of the debt-hole and the US economy had the confidence of both USers and countries around the globe.

Yes, the housing bubble was fueled by lower interest rates. And yes, they were intentionally kept too low too long to artificially inflate the US economy (housing bubble) in an international economic con game. But it was the only thing going that maintained appearances - the economy was fundamentally going south due to ruinous government spending and ruinous tax cuts. Those two basic facts lost the confidence of the global economy, caused the rest of the world to abandon US dollars and go to Euros, oil and gold, and has now squeezed policy into a corner where the only thing they can do is print more money to bail out the investment firms and banks. (That and the Iraq war which led countries to disentangle themselves from the US in as many ways as they could laid the groundwork for today.)

If the dollar were strong and the government on its way to solvency, they would have had the option of borrowing at low rates and boosting other parts of the economy through tax breaks and government spending - to improve infrastructure for example. We would at least be getting something for those dollars.

But what we're seeing now is what happens when you hollow-out the entire economy through tax cuts, deregulation, bad policies, and ruinous war spending, (all the while trying to hide the problems with an artificial housing bubble) for the profit of a very few.

I'm just glad it came back to bite the repubicans in the ass while they were still in power. I suspect when all is said and done, George 'Dubya' Bush will go down in history as THE architect of the US economic downfall.

"The economy was fundamentally going south." THIS is what many of us were trying to tell Rap, and all the while he kept insisting everything was A-OK. That's why I'm so willing to keep reminding him. Some of us saw the train coming down the tracks.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Thursday, September 18, 2008 8:24 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

So, Rap - anything to say ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Thursday, September 18, 2008 8:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:

Yes, the housing bubble was fueled by lower interest rates. And yes, they were kept too low too long to artificially (and intentionally) inflate the US economy (housing bubble) in an international economic con game. But it was the only thing going that maintained appearances - the economy was fundamentally going south due to ruinous government spending and ruinous tax cuts.

I think you've got it mostly right, but I disagree that the economy is "fundamentally going south". We are in a small downturn in the economy as a result of the normal economic cycle. There is a difference between the fundamentals of the economy and the financial crisis we are now facing. Though the financial crisis will extend the downturn due to the risk premium that companies must now pay to borrow money, it is more of a stock market event than a change in the fundamentals of our economy. The US is in the best position we have been in years to compete in the global market and when the uncertainty of the current financial crisis subsides the US will be back on top in no time.

I hate to say it but " the fundamentals of our US economy are strong". Those of you hoping for the demise of the US economy will be sadly disappointed. Those of you that are smart enough to see an opportunity when it presents itself will be rewarded.

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Thursday, September 18, 2008 8:48 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Who would you rather believe - the captain of the Titanic saying everything is fine while the band plays on deck ----- or the crew visibly scurrying to keep the ship afloat while others jump for the lifeboats ?

While that's a rhetorical question, perhaps you haven't heard that international banks have agreed to pour billions into the global economy to keep it from collapsing.

Or maybe you think that 1929 happened in one day when Wall Street traders jumped from buildings, rather than the economy fracturing over time. Perhaps you're thinking that that is the only omen of collapse - those bodies scattered on the sidewalk.

And who are those 'people' who should be ready to take advantage of the opportunity ? The 10% of home owners who are in default or behind in their payments ? The middle class that's had their discretionary income and savings lowered to zero over the past 8 years ? Just wondering.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Thursday, September 18, 2008 9:07 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
There is a difference between the fundamentals of the economy and the financial crisis we are now facing.

Hey Kirk, I guess this is where you and I differ.(I also differ with O2Black and Fletch2).

I think peeps don't realize how much "the fundamentals of our economy" depend on our monetary and fiscal policies. And that all depends on whether our policy-makers think "the economy" us pulled by demand or pushed by investment.

If they think the economy is pushed by investment, they will make sure that $$$ cycles towards the wealthy. In their view, that "spare" $$ will then be invested to create new jobs, which will bring $$$ to the poorer peeps. That's the "trickle down" theory of economics. OTOH if they think that the economy is pulled by demand, they will cycle $$$ downwards thru progressive taxation etc and that $$$ in the hands of the majority will create demand, which will lead to increased hiring and expanded economic activity. That's the Keynsian notion.

In my reading, aggressive implementation of trickle-down theory leads to depressions and that's where we are right now. The income gap is the highest its been since 1929. That should tell you something!! It means that demand across the entire economy was based on borrowing, and the borrowing was based on simultaneous bubbles in housing and stocks. As the bubbles pop, people can no longer sustain personal debt (which was at a historic high) and consumption, leading to an actual contraction in jobs. Unless real $$- not more debt- is pumped into the average person's hands, falling consumption will lead to falling employment, and the whole process could spiral out of control.

Now if the US dollar gets cheap enough, and China's internal consumption increases, maybe we would eventually export more to China. But that's an eventual maybe which will take years to show results.

I think the Adminstration's fiscal and economic policies (borrowing money to concentrate wealth upwards) and the Fed's monetary policies (make money freely available) have been working synergistically, but in a bad way.

---------------------------------
Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal

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Thursday, September 18, 2008 9:15 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"That means that demand across the entire economy was based on borrowing ..." Just like 1929.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Thursday, September 18, 2008 9:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:

And who are those 'people' who should be ready to take advantage of the opportunity ? The 10% of home owners who are in default or behind in their payments ? The middle class that's had their discretionary income and savings lowered to zero over the past 8 years ? Just wondering.

Obviously those who nave lost their jobs or their houses might not be able to take advantage of the current downturn in the market, but the average person can. Even if the average persons discretionary income has fallen(which I doubt),how about the next time a new I-phone comes out you fore-go the latest gizmo and put some money in an IRA. Americans are real good at making excuses why they don't save, but most could if they just gave up a few frivolous expenditures. Those that still have 401k's should increase their percentage going into stock funds now instead of running scared with the masses and moving into money markets. Those that have been waiting 3 or 4 year to buy a house should go out and make a low ball offer on a house. Areas where the house prices have fallen 30% since 2005 are stabilizing and prices are starting to recover. You've got to live somewhere and if you can afford it home values are reasonably affordable again in some areas. Home builder stocks have bottomed in recent months and this is a sign that the home prices may have bottomed in many areas.

It looks like you might have to move quick to take advantage of this market bottom. The Fed is rumored to be ready to take all of the bad debt paper out of the market temporarily to stabilize the financial system. Just the rumor has the Dow up almost 400pts.

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Thursday, September 18, 2008 9:38 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Even if the average persons discretionary income has fallen(which I doubt)

The typical person's discretionary income HAS fallen. It's been falling over the past 8 years. Yes, some ppl are doing better than before, but more people are doing worse. Don't make the mistake of "averaging". If you have ten baseball players sitting on a bench, and nine make $10,000 and year and one makes $10,000,000, the "average" income is about $1,000,000.

The prediction I've seen (from websites which accurately predicted this fiasco) is for a "L" shaped recovery... down, then flat for years. In other words, don't expect a big "bounce" real soon. Also, if "the Fed" swoops in and litters the landscape with $$$ to cover bad debts, what does that do to the dollar?

---------------------------------
Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal

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Thursday, September 18, 2008 9:48 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"but the average person can"

"Among workers with salaries of less than $1 million, the average wage in 2006 was up $170 from 2000."

All of $170. But prices have gone up considerably more than that since then - why, you could use that up in gas alone. As to buying relatively cheap consumer goods - are you saying that people will get wealthy buying stocks at the cost of a i-phone ? Please, most of us are smarter than that. What the US has is a rental economy, with the mindset following along.

As for the DOW -- it STILL has a long way to climb out of the hole Dubya put it in so many years ago.

Yep, a great economy. And it's gonna rebound any day now from 2002. Any day. I can feel it coming. Soon.

Not.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Thursday, September 18, 2008 9:58 AM

THATWEIRDGIRL

I think it's a bad idea for the government to bail out these companies. Bad. I don't how to fix it, I just know this is the wrong way.

---
Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?" Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
-- Charlie Brown
www.thatcostumegirl.com
www.thatweirdgirl.com

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Thursday, September 18, 2008 10:17 AM

SHINYGOODGUY

All of this reminds me of the Great Savings & Loan Debacle of the 80's and 90's.

Bottom line is we, the taxpayer, wind up paying the bill at the end of the day. Someone had posted a good question earlier regarding this: Where were all the experts, elected officials and such when all this was taking place?

I read somewhere that warnings were given. I also saw a special town-hall meeting on a local cable station addressing this very issue - the bursting of the housing bubble and the mortgage lenders hand in all this.

Saw a small article in the NY Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/19/business/19bush.html?_r=1&hp&oref=sl
ogin

"Looky here Laura, Rome is burning, get me a fiddle."

"Who's flying this thing, Oh yeah that would be me."

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Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:09 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Relax, it's all part of The Plan.

Never mind that AIG CIA is in 130 countries, funded by an $85-Billion gift from US taxslaves.

www.rense.com

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Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:39 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Now that picture is SWEEEEET!

---------------------------------
Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal

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Friday, September 19, 2008 4:41 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
It's all part of the program to restore confidence in financial markets. They are absolutely petrified of a run on financial assets and they came very close to that on Thursday," said Boris Schlossberg, director of currency research at GFT Forex in New York. "At this point they have just decided that fiscal responsibility goes out the door and anything and everything that needs to be shored up financially will be done so ... It seems to be working."

Fiscal responsibility has never been part of the Bush Admin's plan, so what they REALLY mean is they will enter into a whole new dimension of fiscal irresponsibility.

---------------------------------
Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal

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Friday, September 19, 2008 5:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Shinygoodguy:
All of this reminds me of the Great Savings & Loan Debacle of the 80's and 90's.

Bottom line is we, the taxpayer, wind up paying the bill at the end of the day.

I think there is a real good chance that this financial crisis won't end up costing the taxpayers like the S&L crisis. I think a better comparison is the bail out of Chrysler Motors. In the Chrysler bail out the taxpayers actually ended up making money, and I think there's a good chance that will happen this time around. The "Mortgage Backed Securities" that at are at the root of this crisis do have substantial value. The problem is that they have become illiquid, driving their market value to near zero. If the Fed buys these securities at ten cents on the dollar and holds them tell maturity, it's possible the the taxpayers could make a lot of money even if many of the securities end up worthless.

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Friday, September 19, 2008 6:06 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:
Quote:
Originally posted by Shinygoodguy:
All of this reminds me of the Great Savings & Loan Debacle of the 80's and 90's.

Bottom line is we, the taxpayer, wind up paying the bill at the end of the day.

I think there is a real good chance that this financial crisis won't end up costing the taxpayers like the S&L crisis. I think a better comparison is the bail out of Chrysler Motors. In the Chrysler bail out the taxpayers actually ended up making money, and I think there's a good chance that will happen this time around. The "Mortgage Backed Securities" that at are at the root of this crisis do have substantial value. The problem is that they have become illiquid, driving their market value to near zero. If the Fed buys these securities at ten cents on the dollar and holds them tell maturity, it's possible the the taxpayers could make a lot of money even if many of the securities end up worthless.

Hello,

I never heard the term illiquid before today. It now seems to be some kind of buzz word.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, September 19, 2008 6:18 AM

"Market liquidity is a business, economics or investment term that refers to an asset's ability to be easily converted through an act of buying or selling without causing a significant movement in the price and with minimum loss of value. An act of exchange of a less liquid asset with a more liquid asset is called liquidation. Liquidity also refers both to that quality of a business which enables it to meet its payment obligations, in terms of possessing sufficient liquid assets; and to such assets themselves."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquidity

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Friday, September 19, 2008 6:36 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:
"Market liquidity is a business, economics or investment term that refers to an asset's ability to be easily converted through an act of buying or selling without causing a significant movement in the price and with minimum loss of value. An act of exchange of a less liquid asset with a more liquid asset is called liquidation. Liquidity also refers both to that quality of a business which enables it to meet its payment obligations, in terms of possessing sufficient liquid assets; and to such assets themselves."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquidity

Hello,

Thank you for the definition of Liquidity. But as I was saying, I've never heard the term illiquid before today. I believe it is becoming some kind of buzzword.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, September 19, 2008 8:48 AM

Quote:
In the Chrysler bail out the taxpayers actually ended up making money, and I think there's a good chance that will happen this time around.

How's that? The government, from what I remember of the deal, gave Chrysler interest-free loans, so the taxpayer didn't make a dime. Lee Iaccoca, however, DID make out like a bandit, in bonuses and stock options.

This world is a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel.

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Friday, September 19, 2008 11:33 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Read an interesting comment which went something like: "The difference between what Hugo Chavez does and our bailout is that Hugo Chavez doesn't put his taxpayers on the hook. When he takes a company, he just takes 'em."

We have capitalism for the poor, and socialism for the rich.

---------------------------------
Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal

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Friday, September 19, 2008 11:59 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
How's that? The government, from what I remember of the deal, gave Chrysler interest-free loans, so the taxpayer didn't make a dime. Lee Iaccoca, however, DID make out like a bandit, in bonuses and stock options.

Interest free loans would of course entail loosing money.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Friday, September 19, 2008 12:05 PM

SHINYGOODGUY

Someone has to "pay the piper" - I heard that in a news cast the other night and it is so true.

Greed my friends, rules the day - remember Enron. The poor slubs who kept investing their hard-earned dollars into that fiasco at the behest of the crooks who smiled in their while lying through their teeth.

It seems to me that The Plan is to break the current system and create a new one (as in that video I saw on YouTube) so that a very small group of people (richfolk) could corner the market, so to speak. The New World Order ladies and gents. Keep your eyes opened for that one.

"Taxslaves" is right!

5% of the world's population controls us 95 percenters.

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Friday, September 19, 2008 1:02 PM

Why is it that every time we have a Republican President in office in the last 25 years, we end up paying hundreds of billions of dollars in "bailouts" - all while they whistle and claim they never raised taxes?

This latest round of bailouts essentially steals $4000 from the pocket of every man, woman, and child in this country - which, amortized over the last 8 years of reckless spending, works out to a $500 per year, per person, tax increase!

This world is a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel.

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Friday, September 19, 2008 1:03 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Less than 5%, actually. More like 0.001%

---------------------------------
Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal

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Friday, September 19, 2008 1:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
In the Chrysler bail out the taxpayers actually ended up making money, and I think there's a good chance that will happen this time around.

How's that? The government, from what I remember of the deal, gave Chrysler interest-free loans, so the taxpayer didn't make a dime. Lee Iaccoca, however, DID make out like a bandit, in bonuses and stock options.

The Chrysler loans were guaranteed by the Fed and structured so that the taxpayers would benefit if the loans were paid off. I 1983 Chrysler paid off the loans and the taxpayers made 350 million dollars. Hopefully this time around the Feds will structure the bailout to benefit taxpayers. The good thing is that as soon as the Fed starts buying these securities they will become liquid and other private buyers will come into the market. Most of the securities bought buy the Fed should be at a fraction of their actual value if we're lucky.

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Friday, September 19, 2008 1:51 PM