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Originally posted by SignyM:
You parse your "facts" pretty carefully, don't you? If the whole canvas is blue but with one red spot, you'll point to the red spot.

If Bush used the term "mortal threat", "unique and growing threat" and said that Iraq was intending to hit us with WMD, and Scott McClellan used the term "imminent threat" you'll says See? Bush didn't use the term "imminent thread so he didn't lie!

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No, he didn't lie because the information he gave was factually accurate, AS BEST HE KNEW, dumbass. It has nothing to do w/ the lying Left who misquote Bush, but rather that EVERYONE from before Bush was even in office was saying Saddam was a threat, had WMD and, at the very least, wasn't living up to the U.N. resolutions . Based on what he knew, he and the US Congress agreed that the use of force was the ONLY way to solve the issue. Bush didn't lie.

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If UN Resolution says Recalling all of our previous resolutions, we now decide to give Iraq a final chance to comply YOU'LL says See? The UN included its previous Resolutions be reference and therefore that means can could invade, totally ignoring the entire meaning of the Resolution!

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It's not ME saying it, the Resolutions THEMSELVES refer to earlier passed resolutions - SPECIFICALLY. Again, you're simply wrong.

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If the market goes up ONE DAY but everything else is tanking, you'll cling to the one-day phenomenon.

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Huh? Now you're simply rambling incoherently

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You have not shown in this thread anything other than the fact that Obama once worked on a board with a guy and had occasional phone conversations. Heck, you can't even figure out what you're so lathered about!!

Rapo, for your own sanity's sake, please give up that heavy-duty filter between you and the rest of the world.

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.... now THAT'S funny. You're trying to consolodate Obama's connection w/ Ayers to nothing more than an occasional phone conversation ???

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

At the heart of this “Top Ten” list is the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, which Ayers founded and Obama and Ayers co-chaired for five years, raising and spending at least $110 million in an effort to bolster a “radical” (Ayers’ word) reform program in the Chicago Public Schools from 1994 to 2001.

1) Out of the Woods:



The Woods Fund financed the hiring of Obama in 1985 by the Developing Communities Project.

According to The Nation: “The Woods Fund, in many ways, is responsible for helping start Obama as an organizer and shaping his political identity. In 1985 the foundation gave a $25,000 grant to the Developing Communities Project (aka the “DCP”), which hired Obama, at 24, as an organizer on Chicago’s economically depressed South Side.”


The Woods Fund was founded by the Woods family which owned the Illinois-based Sahara Coal Company, a major supplier of coal from its mines to major Illinois power companies. Commonwealth Edison, the giant Chicago-based electric power company was headed by Thomas Ayers, father of Bill Ayers.
Obama served on the board of the Woods Fund from 1993 until 2002. Bill Ayers joined the board of the Fund in 1999 and continues to serve on the board today. He chaired the board for two years during that time.

2) Know your ABCs:



Obama’s DCP supported radical school reform project together with Bill Ayers.

In 1987 in the wake of a controversial strike by the Chicago Teachers’ Union, the Alliance for Better Chicago Schools, or ABCs, was formed to lobby for a new Illinois law that would mandate the establishment of a new power center in Chicago public schools. Local school councils would be established to watchdog union teachers and their principals and they would have the power to fire principals at will.
Bill Ayers helped organize the ABCs group, was its contact person and later its chair. Barack Obama worked on school reform efforts for the DCP at that time and the DCP was a member of the ABCs. Chicago United, a business group established by Tom Ayers, Bill’s father, was also a member of the ABCs.
The Woods Fund also provided additional financial support to the DCP in 1988 to support its school reform efforts. A program officer of the Woods Fund at the time was Ken Rolling who would later be hired by Bill Ayers and Barack Obama as Executive Director of the $110 million Chicago Annenberg Challenge.

3) Putting on the White Shoe:



Obama and Dohrn worked for elite law firm Sidley and Austin


After surfacing from the Weather Underground in 1980 Bernardine Dohrn, wife of Bill Ayers, pled guilty to criminal charges related to the violent Days of Rage in Chicago in 1969 and received three years probation. She later refused to testify in front of a grand jury convened to investigate a bank robbery carried out by former comrades of Dohrn’s from the Weather Underground. Currently a clinical faculty member at Northwestern University School of Law, she told the New York Times that she thought grand juries were “illegal” and “coercive.” She served seven months in jail.
Because of the criminal convictions Dohrn, who received a law degree from the University of Chicago in 1967, was refused admission to the New York bar. Nonetheless, she was hired as a legal clerk by Sidley and Austin, a major Chicago law firm, in their New York office in 1984. Howard Trienens, then managing partner of the firm, recently told the Chicago Tribune that he arranged the hiring of Dohrn as a favor to his fellow Northwestern University trustee and classmate, Tom Ayers. Tom Ayers’ firm, Commonwealth Edison, has used Sidley as outside counsel for many years. She later worked in their Chicago office when she and Bill Ayers moved back to Chicago in 1987. She left Sidley in 1988.
Barack Obama left Chicago in the fall of 1988 to attend Harvard Law School. In the summer after his first year at Harvard he became an associate in the Chicago office of Sidley and Austin.

4) A hard rock miner:


Chicago lefty lawyer and Dohrn classmate Judson Miner hires Barack Obama out of Harvard.
Barack Obama returned to Harvard after his summer at Sidley and Austin in the fall of 1989. That fall he was elected the president of the Harvard Law Review, the first black person to hold the position. Although Obama could have returned to Sidley or perhaps clerked for the United States Supreme Court, a natural step for Law Review officers, he chose instead to work for Judson Miner, a partner in a small civil rights law firm in Chicago. Miner had been counsel to Chicago’s late black mayor, Harold Washington. Miner was also classmates with Bernardine Dohrn at the University of Chicago law school in 1967 where they were both were involved in anti-war activity.

5) Rising to the Challenge:



Ayers is named Chairman of the Board of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge founded by Bill Ayers
In late 1993, Bill Ayers, now an associate professor of education at the University of Illinois Chicago Circle Campus, organized a team to put together a grant proposal to secure nearly $50 million from the Annenberg Challenge. The money was to be used by Ayers and co. to bolster the radical Local School Councils reform project that Ayers and Obama had championed back in 1988 through the ABCs.
The grant application was successful and in early 1995 Barack Obama was named chairman of the board of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge. Ayers was named co-chair of the Challenge’s operative and strategic body, the Chicago School Reform Collaborative. Ayers and Obama work together for the next five years on raising an additional $60 million in matching money from local foundations and corporations and using the money to intervene in the governance of the Chicago public schools.
The Challenge through a multi-million dollar Leadership Development Initiative intervened in the School Council elections in the middle of what was known as the Chicago School Wars. At the same time Chicago Mayor Richard Daley was pushing, successfully, to gut the power of the Councils.

6) In the Palmer of his hand:



Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn host Obama’s state senate kick-off in their Hyde Park home
In the fall of 1995 Barack Obama began his first electoral campaign to replace State Senator Alice Palmer who was attempting to run for Congress. Palmer accompanied Obama to the Hyde Park home of Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn for an introduction of Obama to the Hyde Park left. Unnamed Obama campaign aides told the New York Times that this was the first time that Obama met Ayers and Dohrn, part of the campaign’s effort to minimize the relationship between their candidate and the two authoritarian leftists. Of course that was wrong, as clearly Obama and Ayers had already met well before this “meet and greet.”

7) The “lost years”: Ayers and Obama to the rescue of troubled youth

In 1997 Bill Ayers published a book that criticized the treatment of juvenile defendants in the criminal justice system including the practice in some states of trying these individuals as adults. Barack Obama praised the book as a “searing and timely account” in the Chicago Tribune.
In late 1997 and 1998 a bill to impose “blended” sentencing on certain juvenile offenders was proposed in the Illinois legislature where Obama was now a state senator, representing the south side Chicago district that included Ayers and Dohrn’s Hyde Park neighborhood. The bill would have allowed parallel juvenile and adult sentences with the adult sentence held as a threat to be imposed if serious offenders violated terms of their juvenile conviction.
Obama, Dohrn and Ayers opposed the bill. Michelle Obama, now working at the University of Chicago in Hyde Park, organized a panel discussion there in late 1997 as the new bill was gaining momentum, to discuss Ayers’ book. Barack Obama and Ayers were on the panel and Obama was described in the event’s press release as ”working to block proposed legislation that would throw more juvenile offenders into the adult system.”

The “R” word:



Obama advisor promotes a reparations approach to education reform; Ayers endorses it
In 2006 Professor Gloria Ladson-Billings of the University of Wisconsin, the then president of the American Education Research Association (AERA), the nation’s leading School of Education professional association, proposed a new policy to tackle the problems of America’s public schools: the repayment of centuries of “education debt” that allegedly is owed to people of color as a result of slavery and discrimination. She rooted the concept in the literature supporting reparations for slavery.
In 2007 Linda Darling-Hammond, a prominent and respected professor at the Stanford University School of Education, endorsed the same idea in an article in The Nation. In late 2007 Darling-Hammond was named an education advisor to the Obama campaign. In February 2008 Darling-Hammond issued a blueprint for education reform by the next President that set as its #1 priority the repayment of the “education debt,” as proposed originally by Ladson-Billings.
Bill Ayers has endorsed the idea of repayment of the “education debt.” Ayers is now a Vice President-elect (Division B: Curriculum Studies) of the AERA.
A chapter called “Education for Democracy” by Darling-Hammond appeared in a volume co-edited by Ayers called A Light in Dark Times. A chapter co-authored by Ladson-Billings on “racing justice” appeared in a book co-edited by Ayers called Teaching for Social Justice: A Democracy and Education Reader. Ladson-Billings wrote the foreword to Ayers’ book, To Teach: The Journey of a Teacher. Ayers and Ladson-Billings are co-editors of City Kids, City Schools: More Reports from the Front Row just published. Ladson-Billings contributed a chapter in a book edited by Bill Ayers, Rick Ayers, Bernardine Dohrn and Jesse L. Jackson called Zero Tolerance: Resisting the Drive for Punishment published in 2001.

More fundamentally, Bill Ayers introduced the concept of “white supremacy” as America’s original sin within the new left group SDS as part of his effort, together with his future wife Bernardine Dohrn, to hijack the student-led antiwar movement for his still-to-come terrorist actions as a leader of the Weather Underground.

Ayers argues that the fundamental issue in American life is “white skin privilege” - that white Americans benefit from being white at the expense of blacks.

Ayers himself wrote on his website in a January 19, 2008 essay on school reform:

“The dominant narrative in contemporary school reform is once again focused on exclusion and disadvantage, race and class, black and white. ‘Across the US,’ the National Governor’s Association declared in 2005, ‘a gap in academic achievement persists between minority and disadvantaged students and their white counterparts.’ This is the commonly referenced and popularly understood ‘racial achievement gap,’ and it drives education policy at every level. Interestingly, whether heartfelt or self-satisfied, the narrative never mentions the monster in the room: white supremacy….Gloria Ladson-Billings upends all of this with an elegant reversal: there is no achievement gap, she argues, but actually a glancing reflection of something deeper and more profound—America has a profound education debt. The educational inequities that began with the annihilation of native peoples and the enslavement of Africans, the conquest of the continent and the importation of both free labor and serfs, transformed into apartheid education, something anemic, inferior, inadequate, and oppressive. Over decades and centuries the debt has accumulated and is passed from generation to generation, and it continues to grow and pile up.”

Obama has several times during the campaign suggested that the kind of reparations he is for is increased spending on education.

9) A toast to the maoist:



Bill Ayers long time comrade Mike Klonsky blogs for Obama
One of Bill Ayers’ and Bernardine Dohrn’s comrades in the late 60s Students for a Democratic Society was Mike Klonsky. When Dohrn and Ayers moved in one direction toward the violent tactics of the Weather Underground, Klonsky, in the wake of the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia, dropped the pro-Russian communist politics of his parents and became a committed Maoist. As leader of the Communist Party (Marxist-Leninist) in 1977 he travelled to Beijing and was toasted by the senior Beijing leadership.
When the crazy left of the 70s died in the 80s, Klonsky went to graduate school in education in Florida and then moved to Chicago. While driving a cab there he was recruited by his old friend Bill Ayers to head up a new project called the Small Schools Workshop in 1991. It’s offices were in the Department of Education building at the University of Illinois Chicago Circle Campus where Ayers taught. In 1995 the newly formed Chicago Annenberg Challenge headed by Ayers and Obama gave the Workshop a grant of $175,000. The Annenberg Challenge also had its office space in the same building as Ayers Department and the Workshop, rent free courtesy of the University.
In 2008 Klonsky ran a blog on the official Obama campaign website on education policy and “social justice” teaching. When discussion of the Klonsky blog emerged in the blogosphere, it was promptly shut down by the campaign and all of the posts made by Klonsky were removed from the site.

10) The Great Debate: George v. Barack

There is little publicly available information on the precise relationship between Obama and Ayers today. I have been told by Linda Darling-Hammond that Ayers does not have any role in the campaign, although I do wonder how Ayers’ buddy Mike Klonsky could blog on the Obama website unless Ayers had a hand in it. Obama himself did not exactly eliminate any doubts on this score when asked about his relationship with Ayers during a debate with Hilary Clinton by George Stephanopoulos of ABC News.
Obama said that Ayers was a professor of English (not Education) and was just a guy who lives in his neighborhood. Well, clearly not “just,” as we now know. But then Obama said that he does not exchange ideas with Ayers “on a regular basis.” Whatever that is supposed to mean (they debate the future of the world on an “irregular basis”?) it certainly fails to put the issue to rest.

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/08/12/the-obama-ayers-top-ten-highli
ghts-of-the-20-year-obama-ayers-connection/





It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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No, he didn't lie because the information he gave was factually accurate, AS BEST HE KNEW, dumbass.

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It's not ME saying it, the Resolutions THEMSELVES refer to earlier passed resolutions - SPECIFICALLY.

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Huh? Now you're simply rambling incoherently

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Obama served on the board of the Woods Fund from 1993 until 2002. Bill Ayers joined the board of the Fund in 1999 and continues to serve on the board today.

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Local school councils would be established to watchdog union teachers and their principals and they would have the power to fire principals at will.

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She left Sidley in 1988. Barack Obama left Chicago in the fall of 1988 to attend Harvard Law School. In the summer after his first year at Harvard he became an associate in the Chicago office of Sidley and Austin.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
Everybody knew that Iraq was NOT planning to strike at the USA with WMD, but that didn't prevent the Administration from saying so. Dumbass.

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That wasn't the isssue, DUMBASS, it was whether or not Iraq HAD WMD!!

It's not ME saying it, the Resolutions THEMSELVES refer to earlier passed resolutions - SPECIFICALLY.

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Yes, it "refers to" the original resolutions, but WHAT DOES IT SAY ABOUT THEM? SPECIFICALLY??? Quote me the part where Resolution 1441 says that the UN intends to implement the old Resolutions as originally written.

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Huh? Now you're simply rambling incoherently

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It's all in the Resolutions. No need for me to sift through them for you.

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Obama served on the board of the Woods Fund from 1993 until 2002. Bill Ayers joined the board of the Fund in 1999 and continues to serve on the board today.

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For the math-challenged, 1999-2002 is a three-year overlap (not five years).

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

After the House did NOT vote on a 'bail out', the market did indeed rebound.

Dumbass, I posted a gorram FACT.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

After the House did NOT vote on a 'bail out', the market did indeed rebound.

Dumbass, I posted a gorram FACT.

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Oh, I get it, just not an IMPORTANT one. So, you post these facts that are cogent to only a moment here or there to back up your general view, now I get it- thanks, this saves me a lot of time now.

*Terminator voice*
FUCK YOU, ASSHOLE.

This concludes my direct involvement with AU on this board, I now turn my attention to the martial law they're slipping in in case the collapse causes civil war (another reality CRAppy would dispute with his many, albeit briefly if-at-all relevant 'facts').

Chrisisall

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I wish the Left would grow the hell up .

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Who you kidding? Without AURaptor or Hero here you and the rest of the un-civil gnomes would have no one left to say Fuck You to. Of course you'd still have me, but usually I'm better to hurl a You're a fucking idiot at.

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:Who you kidding? Without AURaptor or Hero here you and the rest of the un-civil gnomes would have no one left to say Fuck You to. Of course you'd still have me, but usually I'm better to hurl a You're a fucking idiot at.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Who you kidding? Without AURaptor or Hero here you and the rest of the un-civil gnomes would have no one left to say Fuck You to. Of course you'd still have me, but usually I'm better to hurl a You're a fucking idiot at.

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Jong, you also have your moments of civil unrest, and times when I agree not with ya, but you never resort to brainless stoogery, which AU has been amping up ever since the economic bubble burst. He's afraid now- and like a virtual cornered, injured animal, he's unapproachable, as far as politics & security go.

I just can't deal anymore- maybe when it all calms down, and who the Hell knows when that'll be?

Chrisisall

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It's all in the Resolutions. No need for me to sift through them for you.

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Yeah, for THAT board.

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Originally posted by rue:
"I'm also worried that my money is disappearing so that my "retirement" will now include basket boy at the supermarket when I'm 75."

Your retirement, AnthonyT's home, my savings for my disabled family member who will probably outlive me ... one way or another we are all in this mess (except the very wealthy of course who will never lack for funds).

I have a few general comments, though.

Remember that old adage 'when you find yourself in a hole ---- stop digging' ?

People very rightly place the blame for this mess on Bush. He was handed a strong economy and a government paying down its debt - due to a very unpopular tax increase during Clinton's first administration. But that wasn't good enough for Bush (and his administration). He had to 'fix' something that wasn't broke. For his first act he bankrupted California via Enron and leashed FERC who was supposed to have overseen the energy market. (The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission released two Enron memos describing company plans to inflate energy prices during California's energy crisis of ...) He bankrupted the country through war spending that he didn't even have the honesty to put on the books. He bankrupted the country with his reckless tax cuts. He forbade the state AG's from enforcing anti-predatory lending laws. Lowered capitalization requirements allowing banks to overextend themselves on the speculative housing market.

John McCain was one of the Keating Five - remember that ? It was the Savings and Loan debacle brought about by deregulation promoted by McCain. And Phil Gramm, his economic advisor, authored the bill that eliminated firewalls between speculative investments and banks - the cause of the crisis we have today.

Is more of the same going to help this mess ? Or is it time to stop digging ?


Looking back, would you say privatizing Social Security as the Bush administration wanted to do would have been a good thing or a bad thing ?

And if your current retirement was Social Security rather than the stock market, would you be in better or worse shape today ?


Looking back, would you say the party line - everyone can take part in the American dream if they just unleash business to run the country - worked well or not ?

I never bought into that myself. The economy as structured is a zero-sum system - my loss is 'their' gain. That’s what profit is all about. It's like trusting your life to a hungry shark. But my fortunes are going the way of everyone else as dictated by YOU and people like you.
So I have to ask - aside from any concern you may have for others - how has your agenda worked out for you ? Has it gone as you planned ?


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Silence is consent.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
Jongsstraw: There were, alas, many politicans on both sides asleep at the switch. If I could see the trainwreck ahead... and I'm no expert... what about politicans with all of those "staffers"? And if I can see that the bailout is a godsend ... for the wealthy... what about those who voted for it?

I agree with you: there is MUCH blame to go around. IN GENERAL, I fault the Repubs somewhat more than the Dems simply because I think Republican- pushed "deregulation" was more consequential than Fannie or Freddie. But fault isn't all on Repub shoulders. It's so widespread that it points to a SYSTEMIC problem, so entrenched that simply replacing one set of politicos with another set... even if we could do it en masse third-party... isn't going to solve it.

Later, dude. Back to work.

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Let's party like its 1929.

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By the way, how is it that you can support a person who thinks so little of America that they would actually marry - not "pal around with", but actually MARRY and have children with - someone who is still active in a Secessionist movement? They hate America so much that they actually want their state to break away and become its own country.

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Originally posted by rue:
"Blaming the current mess on the Keating stuff from 20+ years ago is not logical."

First, I didn't blame the mess on 'the Keating stuff' (strawman). Second, McCain was censured in 1991 - not all that long ago (error of fact). Third, it shows that McCain has an agenda not in the best insterests of ordinary people like me. Fourth and last, Gramm was until recently McCain's economic advisor, I'm guessing b/c they share the same philospohy (ignoring an issue).
Is it a philosophy YOU support, given how it's worked out ?


"Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Maxine Waters, Kendrick Meek ..."

Chris Dodd is a Senator, error of fact.

McCain tried to get reforms passed IN THE SENATE in 2005. How Barney Frank and other repesentatives could have blocked his reforms from their committee positions in the HOUSE is beyond me. Further, democrats were in the MINORITY in BOTH houses at the time.
The House of Representatives didn't gain a democratic majority till 2006. By then Fannie and Freddie BOTH had stopped acquiring toxic loans which were generated mainly in 2003 under a repubican White House AND Congress.
In the Senate terms of absolute numbers Democrats do not to this day have a majority. In terms of relative numbers the Senate is in fact evenly divided between 49 Democrats and 49 repubicans.

"... the only point about Bush is that there is no point. He is not relevant to the future."

So you are in FAVOR of continuing past mistakes because they are irrelevant to the future ? Smooth move.

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Silence is consent.

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Based on what you know & have seen, do you think Pelosi & Reid are up to the task? I do not. I'm not completely ready to concede the election, but I'd feel a whole lot better about losing if I could at least count on the Dems to move forward with the Special Prosecutors and the Justice Dept to rev up the perp walks.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
By the way, how is it that you can support a person who thinks so little of America that they would actually marry - not "pal around with", but actually MARRY and have children with - someone who is still active in a Secessionist movement? They hate America so much that they actually want their state to break away and become its own country.

I mean, if Obama is the antichrist because he occasionally talked to a person who did some despicable things 40 years ago, how is it that Palin is seen as any more honorable for her actions and associations? She doesn't want to change America, she doesn't want to reform America - she wants Alaska to LEAVE America. How is that putting "Country First"?

Mike

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Originally posted by rue:


And BTW, this mess was CAUSED by a repubican White House AND Congress. Toxic loans started earlier but were most prevalent in 2003. If you're math-challenged that was FIVE YEARS AGO. Defaults were already rising in 2004. Fannie and Freddie limited their exposure in 2005. By 2006 IT WAS TOO LATE to do anything with Fannie and Freddie that they hadn't already done themselves.

It's time you started acknowledging facts.

.

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The Palin's aren't active in any secessionist movement. This is the sort of childish crap that the Left dreams up when they can't honestly respond to the charges against their own candidates.

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Originally posted by SignyM:

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The Palin's aren't active in any secessionist movement. This is the sort of childish crap that the Left dreams up when they can't honestly respond to the charges against their own candidates.

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Obama isn't active in any terrorist movement. This is the sort of childish crap that the Right dreams up when they can't honestly respond to the charges against their own candidates


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Let's party like its 1929.

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No one ever accused Obama of being active in any terrorist movement.

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He just agrees w/ their radical educational agendas.

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Based on what you know & have seen, do you think Pelosi & Reid are up to the task? I do not. I'm not completely ready to concede the election, but I'd feel a whole lot better about losing if I could at least count on the Dems to move forward with the Special Prosecutors and the Justice Dept to rev up the perp walks. I want to see prosecutions...prosecution of anyone and everyone involved, regardless of their Party.

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Originally posted by AuRaptor:

The Palin's aren't active in any secessionist movement. This is the sort of childish crap that the Left dreams up when they can't honestly respond to the charges against their own candidates.

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Seceding from the Union isn't necessarily a matter of HATING the USA, as much as it is of recognizing a vast difference with it and what ever political views held in your land and the dominant political / social culture of the USA. Be it the South, Key West, Texas or Alaska.

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In no way does she want to 'leave' America, only to fix it, which it desperately needs fixing.

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I'm 100% in favor of her view...

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Well Rapo, I guess you've shown us all what you're TRULY made of: a vacuum.

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Ah, so if you love America too much, you must leave it. I guess those draft dodgers in the sixties were the real patriots then, eh? And the Confederacy must have REALLY loved America. And slavery, of course...

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Gov. Palin isn't married to anyone who wants to leave America. Her own son is fighting FOR America, in Iraq. Pretty shallow charges you guys have.

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