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Originally posted by rue:
"As is Obama's claim to CUT income taxes on 95% of tax payers. Obama keeps on making the same mistake on his claim."

See, and there you are, wrong again. Obama said he would not increase taxes for 95% of people. Can't you get anything right ?

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Originally posted by SignyM:

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No Capitation , or other DIRECT TAX , shall be laid , unless in Proportion to the CENSUS or ENUMERATION hereinbefore directed to be taken

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Maybe that's why they do a census every ten years.

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Originally posted by rue:
"It's sad to see those who claim to be Browncoats cling so blindly to the Alliance-is-Daddy attitude when it comes to the United States Government."


Yes especially when it comes to government lying its way into a war, spying on its own innocent citizens, and torturing people ... all in the name of saving us from all those evil brown people.

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Silence is consent.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
THOMAS JEFFERSON on TAXES

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Many of the opposition {to the new Federal Constitution} wish to take from Congress the power of internal taxation. Calculation has convinced me that this would be very mischievous. --Thomas Jefferson to William Carmichael, 1788.

"Taxes should be proportioned to what may be annually spared by the individual." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1784.

"Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1785.

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http://etext.virginia.edu/jefferson/quotations/jeff5.htm

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Let's party like its 1929.

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That it is supposed an undoubted right of Englishmen not to be taxed but by their own consent, given through their representatives. That the colonies have no representatives in Parliament.

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Friends," said he, "the taxes are indeed very heavy, and, if those laid on by the government were the only ones we had to pay, we might more easily discharge them; but we have many others, and much more grievous to some of us. We are taxed twice as much by our idleness, three times as much by our pride, and four times as much by our folly; and from these taxes the commissioners cannot ease or deliver us, by allowing an abatement....

Away then with your expensive follies, and you will not then have so much cause to complain of bad times, heavy taxes, and chargeable families; for Women and wine, game and deceit,
Make the wealth small and the want great.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
Anyway, as yu can see O2B, the Founding Fathers were QUITE aware of taxes, and the various forms of taxation. I GET THE DISTICNT IMPRESSION THEY BELIEVED THAT PAYING AMERICAN TAXES WAS PATRIOTIC. I could on with a whole boatload more of quotations, but you can do the same yourself just by goggling (fill in the blank here) + tax

Now, I understand that some ppl have a specific beef against INCOME tax. I think it's a stupid complaint myself and is based on stretchy interpretations which have been declared legally invalid over and over... and over and over... again... and anyone who portrays otherwise is just setting up the gullible for a big load of trouble.

Unlike the colonists you HAVE representation, so use it to push your agenda. But to be outraged about "un-American taxes" is just silly.

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Let's party like its 1929.

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Originally posted by out2theblack:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:


Oh, it was just too easy a shot not to take...

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Folk forget that Joe The Plumber ain't running
for President...

Oddly hypocritical that there is such a furious attack against HIS 'credentials' , but OprahBamaHussein can't prove himself to be native-born ?

Just a diversion...

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
The Alliance peeps are laughing, their plan is working- browncoats against browncoats...

McCain or Obama, what is the difference? At least it won't be Bush.

Let's do the impossible; let's be mighty...


Let's not be fighting amongst ourselves.

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Originally posted by SignyM:


...I could on with a whole boatload more of quotations...


...I think it's a stupid complaint myself and is based on a stretchy interpretation which have been declared legally invalid over and over... and over and over... again... and anyone who portrays otherwise is just setting up the gullible for a big shitload of trouble.

Unlike the colonists you HAVE representation, so use it to push your agenda. And I, of course, will use it to push mine (which seems pretty in-line with Jefferson). But to get all huffy about "un-American taxes" is just silly.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
First of all, income tax (tax on wages) was NEVER ruled to be "Unconstitutional". The only taxes in question were taxes on "interest, dividends and rent". So whether or not the 16th Amendment was legally ratified or not, WAGE TAXES WERE ALWAYS CONSIDERED LEGAL.

Secondly, by 1913, 42 of 48 states had ratified the 16ht Amendment- more than necessary for its adoption. So, you got no leg to stand on.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
Been there, done that, got the T-shirt and mug, O2B.

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Some people believe with great fervor preposterous things that just happen to coincide with their self-interest. “Tax protesters” have convinced themselves that wages are not income, that only gold is money, that the Sixteenth Amendment is unconstitutional, and so on. These beliefs all lead — so tax protesters think — to the elimination of their obligation to pay taxes.

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He said he'd CUT taxes.

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Obama IS a socialist. Socialism = BAD for America = Obama is likewise bad for America.

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Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1785.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
CRAPO

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He said he'd CUT taxes.

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Crapo, do you even listen? He said he'd cut taxes for ppl who make less than 200,000, and not increase taxes for peeps between 200,000-250,000.

Now, you claim he "lied" when he said that. Seems a little early to make that claim! How do YOU know whether Obama is "lying" or not?


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Let's party like its 1929.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
OUT2BLACK... I've looked into the issue of income tax. The Supreme Court ruling which you claim ruled income tax illegal did nothing of the kind. What you're doing is trying to put a new interpretation on an old ruling, which in LEGAL terms is a no-no. (In that sense you're like Rapo, trying to re-interpret UN Resolutions to meet the ideological need of the moment.)

Yes, I work for government. (And BTW- No, we are not funded by taxes. So all taxes could disappear tomorrow and we'd still be chugging along.) But as even HERO will tell you, when a law is written or a ruling is made, there are a lot of background documents that are retained in order to indicate the reasoning behind the decision. That is supposed to prevent accidental RE-interpretation of the ruling or law, if the actual wording is unclear. Peeps who like to reinterpret after the fact like to drill down on a single word or phrase, remove it from context, blow it up out of proportion, and then say See, it COULD mean this Well, it "could"- except it doesn't, when all taken into consideration.

My point being that in the ruling that you point to, the whole concept of "wage" taxes was never in doubt. Which is sad, but true.

Personally, I think the whole tax system should be re-done. Every April, it drives me bat-shit crazy, and I've posted several threads on the topic. But that's just my opinion, not the Supreme Court's.

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Then you put your false 'spin' on what you perceive to be my 'interpretation'...

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Originally posted by SignyM:

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Then you put your false 'spin' on what you perceive to be my 'interpretation'...

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Kinda like your assumption that my job depends on taxes?

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Originally posted by SignyM:


Now, if the mere fact that Obama thinks we should be paying taxes makes him a "socialist:" in your view, then MANY of the Founding Fathers were socialists! I quoted Jefferson, Washington, and Ben Franklin on txes and guess what??

They all said you should pay 'em as it is your patriotic duty.

I guess Obama got that idea from them, since he's a Constitutional lawyer.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
Look, I'm kinda busy today. I'll go thru the rulings in detail tomorrow, maybe.

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Funny how nobody mentioned the Shay's or Whiskey Rebellion, and exactly what started them.

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Rue and her ilk, just don't want to put in the effort of protecting/doing for themselves. Its always "someone elses job"

Which is basically the Lib mantra. Its always some form of passing the buck.

Don't wnat to protect yourself? MORE COPS!

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Rue and her ilk, just don't want to put in the effort of protecting/doing for themselves. Its always "someone elses job"

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Yes, rue, I understand that you’re, to at least some extent, unconcerned with the way people are treated if they don’t push a certain line. You don’t have to make that point any further.

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(CNN) — A North Carolina congressman locked in a tight re-election race admitted Tuesday to recently telling a crowd of John McCain supporters that "liberals hate real Americans," the latest in a string of comments from Republicans that appear to question Democrats' patriotism. Rep. Robin Hayes, a five-term Republican who has been heavily targeted by Democrats this election cycle, first denied making the remarks, but conceded Monday afternoon that he was accurately quoted.

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Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
HA!

2. Rounding up innoncent people. I have never thought, now would I ever believe, that being Muslim was a crime. Do I think they should lock Farra-fucka-khan up? Maybe torture him a bit? Sure. But NOT because hes Muslim.

3. Habeus Corpus. If you are a citizen of this country, that is a right that should never be taken away.

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Well, sure, it can be annoying and offensive - but I do not take Wulf for a dyed in the wool koolaid chugged, just someone who's been drinking it unknowing a long time, and has recently started to realize it tastes kinda funny...

I might be sharp with him, but I have a lot of respect for the fact that he honestly seems to be trying to challenge even his own preconceptions about the way things are.

Like I told Out2B in another thread, you could try a reasoned, dispassionate approach to educate before you haul out the flamethrowers sometimes.

And it's not like he's the only blisteringly insulting needlehead around here to deal with - given that we tend to go rounds so often as well.

And yet even we have common ground.

-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Originally posted by SignyM:


'Liberals hate real Americans'

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(CNN) — A North Carolina congressman locked in a tight re-election race admitted Tuesday to recently telling a crowd of John McCain supporters that "liberals hate real Americans," the latest in a string of comments from Republicans that appear to question Democrats' patriotism. Rep. Robin Hayes, a five-term Republican who has been heavily targeted by Democrats this election cycle, first denied making the remarks, but conceded Monday afternoon that he was accurately quoted.

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http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com

Palin apologizes for 'real America' comment

www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/21/palin.sitroom/index.html

Why should I put up with that small-minded, vicious crap?

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Originally posted by SignyM:


'Liberals hate real Americans'

F*#k that sh!+, and 'em all.

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Because you're small-minded and vicious ?

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We believe that the best of America is in these small towns that we get to visit, and in these wonderful little pockets of what I call the real America, being here with all of you hard working very patriotic, um, very, um, pro-America areas of this great nation. This is where we find the kindness and the goodness and the courage of everyday Americans.

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