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Originally posted by SignyM:
Luke 12:33
33 Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Make money-bags for yourselves that won't grow old, an inexhaustible treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys.

Acts 2:45
45 So they sold their possessions and property and distributed the proceeds to all, as anyone had a need.

Acts 4:35
35 and laid them at the apostles' feet. This was then distributed to each person as anyone had a need.

www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=%20Lk%2012:33;%2016:9;%20Ac%202:4
5;%204:35;%201Tm%206:18;&version=77

Luke 14:1-14
When you make a dinner or a supper, don't call your friends, nor your brothers, nor your kinsmen, nor rich neighbors, or perhaps they might also return the favor, and pay you back. But when you make a feast, ask the poor, the maimed, the lame, or the blind; and you will be blessed, because they don't have the resources to repay you. For you will be repaid in the resurrection of the righteous."

The young man said to him, "All these things I have observed from my youth. What do I still lack?"
Jesus said to him, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me." But when the young man heard the saying, he went away sad, for he was one who had great possessions. Jesus said to his disciples, "Most certainly I say to you, a rich man will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven with difficulty. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of God."

www.jesuscentral.com/ji/life-of-jesus-modern/jesus-poor.php


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Let's party like its 1929.

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Are you saying Obama's like Jesus?

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And lo did Jesus come upon the leper, who said unto him, "I have no food, nor do I have all of my fingers- please, alms, alms for the poor?"
And did Jesus spake to him;
"Thou shalt not whine, neither shall you grovel, but pull firmly upon the straps of your sandals- your fate is that what you make of it!"
Then did John firmly state:
"Shall we not be our brother's keeper, oh Christ? You stated this plainly-"
Jesus did answer:
"John, get thee from upon my back, lest I strike you in anticipation of thy future irritation!"

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Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
*sigh

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“That is why Marxism represents a further vital and creative stage in the maturing of man's universal vision. Marxism is simultaneously a victory of the external, active man over the inner, passive man and a victory of reason over belief: it stresses man's capacity to shape his material destiny – finite and defined as man's only reality – and it postulates the absolute capacity of man to truly understand his reality as a point of departure for his active endeavors to shape it. To a greater extent than any previous mode of political thinking, Marxism puts a premium on the systematic and rigorous examination of material reality and on guides to action derived from that examination.”
—Zbigniew Kazimierz Brzezinski, Between Two Ages, 1970
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=46081.0

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"I don't regret setting bombs. I feel we didn't do enough. Kill all the rich people. Break up their cars and apartments. Bring the revolution home, kill your parents, that's where it's really at. Everything was absolutely ideal on the day I bombed the Pentagon.''
-Professor Bill Ayers, FBI/CIA employee and confessed bomber of NYPD HQ, US Capitol, NY Supreme Court, bombed and killed two female bombers in his house, busted CIA LSD mind-control agent Timothy Leary out of prison, confessed to 12 bombings but never prosecuted, author of Barack Hussien Obama Sotoro's authorized biography and grant recipient of Obama's Annenberg Foundation

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Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Marxism is a political practice or philosophy that is derived from Karl Marx or Friedrich Engels – two men who wouldn’t even be born before almost 1800 years after Jesus’ death. So there is no way for Jesus to have been a Marxist, since Marxism did not exist contemporary with Jesus’ life. It may be true that much or some of Marx’s beliefs were shared by Jesus, but it is not possible that any of Jesus’ beliefs were Marxists in any way.

What Jesus spoke of was charity, and much of what Marx believed he probably understood because these were ideas that were already well established in Christian culture. Charity is a key component of Christian theology. But that being said, both Jesus and Marx sought to describe what they saw as injustice in their society. In 17th century Europe, poverty and oppression unlike anything that exists in the US or UK today, was rampant across Europe. And efforts to elevate that oppression by the lower classes rising up and taking control were not new (Marx didn’t come up with that either), but those efforts failed because in the end, they always replaced that oppression with more oppression (which sadly is the case with Marxism as well.) Marx lived in a world that exercised a very European type of “liberty;” a liberty that was held only by those born into it. The concept that freedom was an unalienable right existed only as an ideal in 17th century Europe – there was no Declaration of Independence to canonize the concept. Marx described what he saw in terms of a European aristocracy. The capitalist then become the aristocrats, but Marx failed to predict a society in which capitalists can be lower class as well and therefore failed to see that capitalism is not a form of aristocracy – in essence Marx failed to predict the rise of the Middle Class. Ironically, although it may not have been what Marx believed, Marxists and the practice of Marxism has developed an implementation of the Marxist utopia via a dictatorship called socialism in which the government forcibly imposes the order of Marxism on the people.

Jesus lived in a society that was also aristocratic and even more oppressive, and Jesus’ response, in many ways, was even more extreme then Marx. Marx, after all, never suggested giving up one’s possessions and living in poverty, but Jesus did. In fact, I don’t know that Marx ever suggested that any one do anything, because Marx spoke in broad concepts of classes and economy. And therein lies the distinction, Jesus taught charity, Marx taught social structure. Jesus fought against the government and its oppression, Marxism seeks to unleash the oppression of the government.

The two are not the same; in fact they may polar opposites. . I’m not a Marxist, I don’t believe that a dictatorship (socialism) will lead to a free and classless society (communism). I believe the dictatorship (socialism) leads to more dictatorship, and history backs that up. If Marx were alive today, he wouldn’t be a Marxist, given how miserable Marxism has failed. But I do believe in charity, and I support my local charities and churches which provide charitable assistance – that’s a good thing, if you are a Christian, it is part of your religion, but even if you aren’t a Christian it’s a good practice that can only improve our society. So Jesus was right. Marx was wrong.

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Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Jesus was a libertarian.

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I have never understood how the "moral majority" could call themselves "christians" and yet they have so much hate for anyone not like them.

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
I ain't gonna laugh at him, for all that I tear him up one side and down the other, one thing I refrain from calling Finn is stupid, cause he ain't.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Jesus never said give up all you have and live for the state.

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A lot of the book of Acts was communistic, and I have said often, that communist theory has a very Christian basis.

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
I ain't gonna laugh at him, for all that I tear him up one side and down the other, one thing I refrain from calling Finn is stupid, cause he ain't.

It just bothers the hell out of me that we both know history so well and yet take radically different and opposing lessons and stances based on it.

Oh, and FMF ?

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I have never understood how the "moral majority" could call themselves "christians" and yet they have so much hate for anyone not like them.

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Have you like, ever actually READ that pornography of violence, hatred and maliciousness they use for a religious text ?

I mean, come on, a "merciful" diety sending bears to murder forty-two CHILDREN cause they called Isiah a dickhead?

Believe me, those folk are exemplary christians, which is why I despise them collectively and that whole belief with a rage bordering on rabidity.

Individually, I define them by their actions, but I really, really, really DO NOT like christians or christianity, it's sexist, hateful, perverted, violent, and in general malicious and petty.

It always struck me as passing strange when I found decent folk, and there's been quite a few, proffessing to believe a religion so nasty I consider it demon worship, and yet acted in a fashion I considered humane...

People are weird, really... they are.

-Frem

Useful Link, Your Mileage May Vary.
http://www.evilbible.com/]

Yes I have, many times, and I was talking about Christians not old Testament. Christs' teachings were love and charity and taking care of those in need.



I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

Trolls Against McCain




“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Jesus never said give up all you have and live for the state.

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Quite right- that was Bush.

isall

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Originally posted by rue:
I always though Bush said: give up all you have and live for the corporation.

Ahhh - I see. The start of blue sun rule. What does that make YOU, Rap ?

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Silence is consent.

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Originally posted by rue:
"I'm a gorram independent" ... who happens to his his lips planted firmly on Bush's tush.

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Silence is consent.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
Like to get back to the incompatibility of capitalism and the message of Jesus.

Jesus said: give up your stuff, stop focusing on this world, love your neightbor as yourself.

Capitalism says: Greed is good, the person who dies with the most toys wins, screw your neighbor.

Are there any pro-capitalists out there who can show me where I'm wrong?
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One can be a capitalist and not give into the love of money

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Signym believes Obama is a god and that it’s blasphemy to question him, I know that...

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Originally posted by AURaptor:


One can be a capitalist and not give into the love of money. THAT is what Jesus was talking about, the love of things of this world over those of his Kingdom. Capitalism says nothing of those things you claim it does. When you're an owner of a company, you'll survive longer if you find the best deals for your customers and give them more than they expect.

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Signym believes Obama is a god

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Originally posted by SignyM:

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One can be a capitalist and not give into the love of money

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Not possible. If you don't go for the highest profits possible you will be out-competed and eventually swallowed up by those who will. That's a central tennet of capitalism.

Besides, I fail to see how you can be thinking about "love your neighbor" and the kingdom of heaven if your mind is wrapped up around payroll taxes, hiring and firing, deliveries etc. I'm under the possibly mistaken impression that Jesus message wasn't meant to be a "part-time" hobby. When he said "Give up your things and follow me" and "Easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven" and "Behold the lillies of the field, they labor not nor do they sew" he meant it.

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Let's party like its 1929.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
I find it strange that the one right-winger who claims not to be religious is the one trying to reconcile religion with capitalism!


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Originally posted by AgentRouka:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:


One can be a capitalist and not give into the love of money. THAT is what Jesus was talking about, the love of things of this world over those of his Kingdom. Capitalism says nothing of those things you claim it does. When you're an owner of a company, you'll survive longer if you find the best deals for your customers and give them more than they expect.

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But a capitalism based on the idea of NOT accumulating wealth doesn't really seem like... the real thing, does it? Jesus is pretty negative on wealth.

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