Boycott Gas on May 19th by DucesTecum

If you really think that Big Oil is screwing the public and getting rich, then buy stock. Sell your home, sell your car, sell the wife and kids and buy as much stock as you can. If you really believe the oil companies are making as much profit as you say they are, put your money where your mouth is and become a rich person.

"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"

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Friday, May 14, 2004 4:26 AM

Gotta say, Badgershat is correct.

A boycott or any message sent to the Oil Gods is a waste of time and effort. We in the west are committed to our oil sucking ... until it's all used up.

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Friday, May 14, 2004 5:54 AM

CCT

Ok, you really want to make a difference? Any difference at all? (besides which day you fill your car on?

USE LESS GAS. Three words, about as simple as it gets. So simple that explaining how this works is a waste of typing :)

I'm curious, though- everybody seems to be more concerned with the cost of gas, and all the problems/issues associated with petroleum usage are secondary. Personally, I'd PREFER that gas be $4-$5 / gallon. Am I nuts? Here's why-

Gas really does cost that much. If you consider environmental costs, military costs, the assorted other costs that are associated with the consumption of petroleum fuels, it costs more than you expect to burn a gallon of gas. BUT cheap gas is popular! So who's paying for this? You are, as part of your tax burden- buying the price of gas down as part of what your taxes do.

This it truly broken- politicians have essentially bought our vote ('cause we love cheap gas) with our own money! The joke's on us :( There is no prize to be won for being efficient- since you're paying for the gas anyway in your taxes burning less with a super efficient car doesn't really get you much. Contrarily, driving a Hummer around doesn't really cost you that much either, since the costs aren't really in the gas you buy.

If things were re-structured so that money I normally pay in taxes (that is associated with petroleum usage) were added on at the pump instead of on my 1040, I think that would work. For the "average" person, they'd see themselves paying more at the pump, and correspondingly less in their taxes- no net change of cost. THEN, with gas actually costing what it should, the Hummer driver takes the hit in the wallet that he should, and the guy riding his bike to work actually has significantly more money in his pocket than before!

Is there any way "Joe Taxpayer" will buy into this scheme? Nope, the average Joe can't see past the price on the gas pump. So......

Make me world dictator and things will change! :)

CCT

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Friday, May 14, 2004 10:02 AM

JOHNCLARK

Figured I'd chuck this in

With the current rate of exchange, I reckon we pay around 7-8 Dollars a gallon here in the UK

---------------------------------------------
Experience has taught me that interest begets expectation, and expectation begets disappointment, so the key to avoiding disappointment is to avoid interest. A=B=C=A, or whatever

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Friday, May 14, 2004 10:13 AM

^^^ Blimey!

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Friday, May 14, 2004 10:27 AM

JOHNCLARK

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
^^^ Blimey!

Well, part of it is the exchange rate, but our American colleagues do usually seem kinda surprised

---------------------------------------------
Experience has taught me that interest begets expectation, and expectation begets disappointment, so the key to avoiding disappointment is to avoid interest. A=B=C=A, or whatever

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Friday, May 14, 2004 1:46 PM

We should be glad that cars don't run on milk, beer or sparkling water.

Here's some interesting math, Crude is up to $40 a barrel, a barrel is 42 gallons. So oil refiners are paying nearly a $1 a gallon for RAW materials. Spend a Billion dollars to buy yourself a refinery, spend millions every day for natural gas and electricity to run it. Spend millions a year in upgrades and environmental compliance. Sell your gas at wholesale costs to vendor that has to add his profit and another chunk for taxes and the final price is over $2 a gallon. The refiners get blamed for the high price of gas. Go figure.

You are right, the simple answer is that we use more gas that we can make. Use less and the price will go down.

"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"

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Friday, May 14, 2004 1:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SevenPercent:
This kind of thing doesnt work- Check www.snopes.com , it's a kind of chain-letter hoax- Besides, common sense tells you this isnt so, because stockpiles are just that, stockpiles- What you dont sell today, you will sell tomorrow or to a different buyer- People can only go without gas for so long- That's why Big Oil has all of us in a stranglehold to begin with- It's not like we dont need gas, they know we need it it and we know it, which is why this would never work-

Just a quick comment,

The oil companies don't own the car companies. The oil companies didn't create the demand for gas, they are trying to fill the demand for gas. If people really want to make a difference, stop buying big cars and drive less. Force the auto makers to make smaller cars that get better mileage.

Most oil refineries will blend and sell gasoline as quick as possible, sometimes the same day. They don't stock finished gas blends because its unpaid inventory.

Thump! That's me getting off my soapbox now

"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"

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Friday, May 14, 2004 2:17 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by Someone:

Just a quick comment,

The oil companies don't own the car companies. The oil companies didn't create the demand for gas, they are trying to fill the demand for gas. If people really want to make a difference, stop buying big cars and drive less. Force the auto makers to make smaller cars that get better mileage.

Most oil refineries will blend and sell gasoline as quick as possible, sometimes the same day. They don't stock finished gas blends because its unpaid inventory.

Thump! That's me getting off my soapbox now

"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"

Gasoline may not be stockpiled, but the oil that makes the gasoline is. That's what we call oil reserves.

And no, it doesn't matter if you buy gas tomorrow instead of today. The point is, the same quantity of gas is being purchased during the month. A 24 hour delay won't matter to anyone.

Figuring an X million dollar loss to the oil companies only works if that gas is NEVER purchased. The fact is their X million loss today becomes an X million surplus tomorrow. Whoop de doo. They break even.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, May 14, 2004 2:58 PM

DARKJESTER

Quote:
Figured I'd chuck this in

With the current rate of exchange, I reckon we pay around 7-8 Dollars a gallon here in the UK

I was in Scotland this past summer, and paid 76.9 pence per litre (have the place I bought gas/petrol on video). Convert pounds to dollars, litres to gallons (don't forget 5 quarts to the gallon in Britain!) and I figured I was paying just under $5.00 per American gallon.
One further note... I remember back in '76 I had a Jr High friend who's dad was a delivery driver. I remember hearing his dad complain about the high price of gas - almost a dollar per gallon. Now, 28 years later, we've finally hit twice that. Can you think of a price for anything else that has only doubled in the last 28 years?

MAL "You only gotta scare him."
JAYNE "Pain is scary..."

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Friday, May 14, 2004 3:50 PM

Quote:

And no, it doesn't matter if you buy gas tomorrow instead of today. The point is, the same quantity of gas is being purchased during the month. A 24 hour delay won't matter to anyone.

Yup, I'm agreeing with you.

Everytime the price of gas goes up, that same chainletter gets started.

One chainletter suggested that people boycott just one brand at a time. Say, next Monday everyone boycotts Exxon. What does that do? Nothing. The consumer goes to Chevron and buys Chevron gas. The Chevron stations start to run low and Chevron buys it from Exxon at an inflated price and then passes the extra cost to the consumer. THe price of gas at Chevron goes up and the price of gas at Exxon goes down. Everyone flocks to Exxon and they make a ton of money. Go figure.

"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"

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Friday, May 14, 2004 4:02 PM

Quote:
Can you think of a price for anything else that has only doubled in the last 28 years?

*Warning: On Soapbox*

Exactly.

The price of homes is going up because of a shortage of lumber in some areas but people don't boycott home builders. The price of meat went up because cows are dying of mad cow disease but people aren't sending out chain letters about slaughter houses. The price of beer is going up (damn!). Everything is going up but the price of gas hasn't kept up. If the price of gas kept up with the other consumables, we would be paying $3-$4 gallon a long time ago.

There was a documentary made many years ago about oil. I think it was called the Power of Gold or something like that. It said that most people think it's a God given right to have cheap gas. The truth is that gasoline is a consumable product subject to the laws of supply and demand.

"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"

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Friday, May 14, 2004 11:15 PM

JOHNCLARK

Quote:
Originally posted by DarkJester:

I was in Scotland this past summer, and paid 76.9 pence per litre (have the place I bought gas/petrol on video). Convert pounds to dollars, litres to gallons (don't forget 5 quarts to the gallon in Britain!) and I figured I was paying just under $5.00 per American gallon.

In my experience, the further north you get in our neck of the woods, the cheaper it gets

While I've been travelling, I've seen it ranging between 75p to 88p a litre. (Also depends on which type of gas you want, and what the rate of exchange is currently doing - Earlier this year, our place was giving $1.80 per £1 - though it's dropped down a little now)

---------------------------------------------
Experience has taught me that interest begets expectation, and expectation begets disappointment, so the key to avoiding disappointment is to avoid interest. A=B=C=A, or whatever

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Saturday, May 15, 2004 1:04 AM

DRAGONFLYDIRECTOR

Agreed. A hoax that has been around since the inception of the 'Net - even back when it was not quite 'civilian'.

Only way is to force legislation to fund research and implimentation of alterntive energy sources.

and/or - Buy a hybrid or full electric vehicle - but they are waaaay expensive for the average Joe and Josie Sixpack.

The fuel cell car is coming in a few years from a few manufacturs
But again - it will be out of the pocket range of the Middle Class. And the upper class cares not about the price of gas. Burning money, so to speak, in the form of gas to show how rich they are.

So the car will 'fail' in the marketplace. Sigh...
...Just a thought or three from me...

"Observe Analyze & Respond"
Motto of the A.P.E.s
Alliance Protean Engineers

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Sunday, May 16, 2004 4:14 AM

DARKJESTER

DragonFlyDirector wrote:
Saturday, May 15, 2004 01:04

Quote:
and/or - Buy a hybrid or full electric vehicle - but they are waaaay expensive for the average Joe and Josie Sixpack.

My sister and brother-in-law just bought a Toyota Prius hybrid, but they got their hands on it purely by luck. Our local Toyota dealer decided to sell their demo Prius, because there is a waiting list of over 12 months for delivery if you order one, and they didn't see the point of telling their customers "Toyota makes this here car, but you can't buy one unless you want to wait a year for it". My sister just happened to be the first to call them after they decided to sell it.

And yes, you can buy a similarly-sized new Hyundai for about half the price of a Prius, or a new Ford Explorer for half again as much, but that's not my point. The demand is there - people are wanting and waiting for these hybrid cars (hence the 1-year waiting period).

My brother-in-law drives it to work every day (almost an hour each way) and the lowest mileage he's gotten is 48.7 mpg.

MAL "You only gotta scare him."
JAYNE "Pain is scary..."

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Monday, May 17, 2004 2:17 AM

Let me get this straight...

The USA invades and occupies the richest oil producing country on the planet... and oil prices go up?

Somehow it seems to me we are very, very, gullable. Hoaxes asside.

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Monday, May 17, 2004 9:26 AM

No, it just points to the glaringly apparent need that we just need new and better conspiracy theories.

and actually, The US, Russia, Iran, Mexico, Norway, China, Venezuela, Canada, and the UK (none Gulf states) all produce more barrels per day than Iraq.

The US alone produces 3 times more than Iraq...

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Let me get this straight...

The USA invades and occupies the richest oil producing country on the planet... and oil prices go up?

Somehow it seems to me we are very, very, gullable. Hoaxes asside.

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Monday, May 17, 2004 5:42 PM

Quote:
and actually, The US, Russia, Iran, Mexico, Norway, China, Venezuela, Canada, and the UK (none Gulf states) all produce more barrels per day than Iraq.

I haven't looked at the figures but I'm sure you are right. There are other oil producing countries that don't produce as much but still contribute to the overall pool of available crude.

Most of the largest producers make up OPEC.

"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"

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Monday, May 17, 2004 6:30 PM

I skipped the Gulf states (Saudi Arabia, United Emerites, etc.) since they are well known. I suppose it wouldn't have been wrong to *assume* that they rest of that area falls in the same line.

Quote:
Originally posted by WhooDahn:
Quote:
and actually, The US, Russia, Iran, Mexico, Norway, China, Venezuela, Canada, and the UK (none Gulf states) all produce more barrels per day than Iraq.

I haven't looked at the figures but I'm sure you are right. There are other oil producing countries that don't produce as much but still contribute to the overall pool of available crude.

Most of the largest producers make up OPEC.

"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"

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Monday, May 17, 2004 6:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
I skipped the Gulf states (Saudi Arabia, United Emerites, etc.) since they are well known. I suppose it wouldn't have been wrong to *assume* that they rest of that area falls in the same line.

I was thinking of some of the smaller producers. Don't Korea and Japan export crude?

"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 2:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:

No, it just points to the glaringly apparent need that we just need new and better conspiracy theories.

and actually, The US, Russia, Iran, Mexico, Norway, China, Venezuela, Canada, and the UK (none Gulf states) all produce more barrels per day than Iraq.

The US alone produces 3 times more than Iraq...

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Let me get this straight...

The USA invades and occupies the richest oil producing country on the planet... and oil prices go up?

Somehow it seems to me we are very, very, gullable. Hoaxes asside.

Wow, you are just full of fun facts!

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 4:21 AM

They prolly do. I just made a list of folks (non Gulf states) who pumps more crude than Iraq.

Quote:
Originally posted by WhooDahn:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
I skipped the Gulf states (Saudi Arabia, United Emerites, etc.) since they are well known. I suppose it wouldn't have been wrong to *assume* that they rest of that area falls in the same line.

I was thinking of some of the smaller producers. Don't Korea and Japan export crude?

"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 4:23 AM

and *real* too!

Can you imagine writing *fun*, *real*, and the truth?!

Well, at least you can imagine it

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:

No, it just points to the glaringly apparent need that we just need new and better conspiracy theories.

and actually, The US, Russia, Iran, Mexico, Norway, China, Venezuela, Canada, and the UK (none Gulf states) all produce more barrels per day than Iraq.

The US alone produces 3 times more than Iraq...

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Let me get this straight...

The USA invades and occupies the richest oil producing country on the planet... and oil prices go up?

Somehow it seems to me we are very, very, gullable. Hoaxes asside.

Wow, you are just full of fun facts!

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 5:04 AM

TALVIN

Some of the folks in our (liberal) church were complaining that we went to war for oil.

We turned to them and said, "We don't own a car! We walked here today! Don't you live closer than us?"

I have arthritis in the left hip and developing in the right.

My wife is blind and 8 months pregnant.

We do not have, we cannot afford, we do not WANT a car. We hike it and we like it.

Still, yes, we are indirect oil consumers. We accept rides from friends occasionally. The cow didn't walk to the meat market. The chicken did NOT cross the road under its own power. That corn didn't get in the can and on the shelf under solar power.

Still, it's fun to hassle the left and the right when they start screaming about oil. Nyah.

Now if you will excuse me, my wife has a doctor's appointment that we need to start walking to.

"You're 34 weeks pregnant, you walked here, and your blood pressure is only 128 over 68?!?!?" --OB/GYN

"I give up. I admit it. I'm a Browncoat."

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 5:06 AM

KALATHENA

Quote:
The oil companies don't own the car companies. The oil companies didn't create the demand for gas, they are trying to fill the demand for gas.

This is very true. The demand for cheap gas began just after WWII when President Truman opted to fund the Interstate Highway System instead of expanding out railway system. At the time this was the SMARTEST thing he could have done. After seeing the destruction to supply lines during the war, Truman was desperate to get us off our dependence on railroads. A train cannot jump the track; a big truck can always drive through a field if desperate enough to get somewhere.

Don't like gas prices now? Buy a hybrid or give a donation to someone reseaching longer lasting power sources for electric cars. There is no short term fix for our oil dependence.

--Kala

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 5:09 AM

TALVIN

Addendum:

We don't want a car.

We want a midbulk transport.

Which uses some oil as lubricants and probably some plastics and the like, but it doesn't burn it.

So park yer SUVs and go for full burn. Given the shoestring budget they seem to work on, it MUST be cheaper to fuel than a Suburban.

"I give up. I admit it. I'm a Browncoat."

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 5:32 AM

Quote:

This is very true. The demand for cheap gas began just after WWII when President Truman opted to fund the Interstate Highway System instead of expanding out railway system. At the time this was the SMARTEST thing he could have done. After seeing the destruction to supply lines during the war, Truman was desperate to get us off our dependence on railroads. A train cannot jump the track; a big truck can always drive through a field if desperate enough to get somewhere.

Don't like gas prices now? Buy a hybrid or give a donation to someone reseaching longer lasting power sources for electric cars. There is no short term fix for our oil dependence.

--Kala

I'm not familiar with Truman's decision but I imagine that he really had a fight with the railroad companies. They were very strong and didn't usually play by the rules. I can't imagine the politics involved in making a cultural decision to change a form of transportation.

The world really needs to make changes to it's fuel consumption. It isn't just automotive fuel, it's cruise ships, cargo ships, airplanes, military vehicles, plastics, lubricants, etc. The world relies on petroleum based products and one day it will run out.

"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 5:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:

and *real* too!

Can you imagine writing *fun*, *real*, and the truth?!

Well, at least you can imagein it

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:

No, it just points to the glaringly apparent need that we just need new and better conspiracy theories.

and actually, The US, Russia, Iran, Mexico, Norway, China, Venezuela, Canada, and the UK (none Gulf states) all produce more barrels per day than Iraq.

The US alone produces 3 times more than Iraq...

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Let me get this straight...

The USA invades and occupies the richest oil producing country on the planet... and oil prices go up?

Somehow it seems to me we are very, very, gullable. Hoaxes asside.

Wow, you are just full of fun facts!

Yeah, well you are correct. I'm not disputing your facts. But you don't seem to get the point. The point being it doesn't take a conspiracy theory to realize that no matter what happens, including the West controling more oil than it has ever before in history, the people will still be milked.

The point being, we are being ripped off. Ripped off and sold out.

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 6:21 AM

You are right, I do *not* get it. Every single one of us has the option to *not* drive, to *not* use oil. We burden and strap ourselves to this dependency. No one is getting held hostage and told to buy and drive their automobile (gas guzzling or otherwise)

But if one does make the choice to use new technology and machinery - and continue to use it en masse with abandonment. Who is to blame? With some exceptions, its the whim of the consumer and the market forces that drive the prices (Enron bastards). If you are continually willing to buy it at $2.50/gal, $3.00/gal, or $5.00/gal, apparently, it is *worth* that price. No one is putting a gun to your head and saying "buy this gas at $10.00/gal".

If you don't want it, don't buy it.

Here's my point, stupid people get sold out, intelligent people make the *damned* choices and live with it - no regrets, intelligent people find out how they aren't going to be "f*cked at the drive-thru" next time.

Even though we never seem to agree on one damn thing, from what I've read, you are one of the intelligent ones (ok, might not be the most reasoned person, but still) and I am pretty sure you'll figure out a way to keep buying this load of crap.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:

and *real* too!

Can you imagine writing *fun*, *real*, and the truth?!

Well, at least you can imagein it

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:

No, it just points to the glaringly apparent need that we just need new and better conspiracy theories.

and actually, The US, Russia, Iran, Mexico, Norway, China, Venezuela, Canada, and the UK (none Gulf states) all produce more barrels per day than Iraq.

The US alone produces 3 times more than Iraq...

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Let me get this straight...

The USA invades and occupies the richest oil producing country on the planet... and oil prices go up?

Somehow it seems to me we are very, very, gullable. Hoaxes asside.

Wow, you are just full of fun facts!

Yeah, well you are correct. I'm not disputing your facts. But you don't seem to get the point. The point being it doesn't take a conspiracy theory to realize that no matter what happens, including the West controling more oil than it has ever before in history, the people will still be milked.

The point being, we are being ripped off. Ripped off and sold out.

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 6:28 AM

That decision also fueled the subsequent suburban growth and deprecation of the inner city life. With Highways came the supermalls and suburban sprawl out into whatever people deemed was the acceptable daily driving range is. The smarter
cities and counties around the country has adopted smart city planning and growth control policies to limit uncontrolled sprawl, better thought out communites, centralized city transportation, etc. Portland, Oregon... here I come.

Quote:
Originally posted by WhooDahn:
Quote:

This is very true. The demand for cheap gas began just after WWII when President Truman opted to fund the Interstate Highway System instead of expanding out railway system. At the time this was the SMARTEST thing he could have done. After seeing the destruction to supply lines during the war, Truman was desperate to get us off our dependence on railroads. A train cannot jump the track; a big truck can always drive through a field if desperate enough to get somewhere.

Don't like gas prices now? Buy a hybrid or give a donation to someone reseaching longer lasting power sources for electric cars. There is no short term fix for our oil dependence.

--Kala

I'm not familiar with Truman's decision but I imagine that he really had a fight with the railroad companies. They were very strong and didn't usually play by the rules. I can't imagine the politics involved in making a cultural decision to change a form of transportation.

The world really needs to make changes to it's fuel consumption. It isn't just automotive fuel, it's cruise ships, cargo ships, airplanes, military vehicles, plastics, lubricants, etc. The world relies on petroleum based products and one day it will run out.

"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 6:38 AM

Quote:
Portland, Oregon... here I come.

Where do you live now?

"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 6:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
But if one does make the choice to use new technology and machinery - and continue to use it en masse with abandonment. Who is to blame? With some exceptions, its the whim of the consumer and the market forces that drive the prices (Enron bastards). If you are continually willing to buy it at $2.50/gal, $3.00/gal, or $5.00/gal, apparently, it is *worth* that price. No one is putting a gun to your head and saying "buy this gas at $10.00/gal".

If you don't want it, don't buy it.

Exactly.

My point (lost somewhere in this maze of posts) is that the market sets the price of a commodity based on the consumers willingness to purchase at that price. Basically the consumer sets the price. As long as the comsumer is willing to consume and pay the asking price, then it will stay at the asking price.

For example, I don't know if it costs $2000 to make a computer or $40,000 to make a car but if people are willing to buy them at that cost, then what drives the market to lower the price? Nothing.

My heartburn acts up when people blame oil refineries for the price of gas. Truthfully most refineries have very little control over the price of gas. If they could control their profit, the small refineries wouldn't be going out of business and the large oil companies wouldn't be merging to stay alive.

If people want to blame someone for the high price of gas, blame the consumer. Oil refineries are trying to fill the hole the consumer has dug for themselves.

"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:46 AM

SAMURAIX47

Quote:
Originally posted by Talvin:

Now if you will excuse me, my wife has a doctor's appointment that we need to start walking to.

"You're 34 weeks pregnant, you walked here, and your blood pressure is only 128 over 68?!?!?" --OB/GYN

Now that shows how walking is one of the most healthiest forms of exercise for anybody. My wife also had excellent blood pressure during pregnancy and she exercised 3-5 times a week. Kepp up the walking Talvin.

Jaymes

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 8:55 AM

MRSSPOOKY

I already use less gas - I've been driving a Civic Hybrid for going on two years now.

46.5 miles per gallon - I only have to fill up every two weeks.

It's not oil independence, but it's a step in the right direction (and it doesn't pollute either, also good).

Good news though - I heard that Orlando (my home) has been picked as a location for a hydrogen fuel test station. We'll be seeing a fleet of hydrogen-powered vehicles in the next few years.

Now THAT'S a technology we NEED!! Hopefully the oil barons will start converting their investments to hydrogen fuel cell technology. Then maybe they won't be fighting the move away from oil.

"Sir, I think you have a problem with your brain being missing."

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 11:11 AM