The Assault Weapons Ban by AnthonyT

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The Assault Weapons Ban

POSTED BY: ANTHONYT
UPDATED: Friday, December 5, 2008 07:22
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Thursday, December 4, 2008 9:43 AM

Awesome. Not the crappy stuff, the details.

I see how your mind can lean one way or another when talking about the crimes and violent activity where you have lived.

Those things exist everywhere to some degree. And yes, I see how your vantage point definately points the US out as being violent in some aspects and insecure and others.

Canada is vastly less poulated than the US. It is not as "culturally rich" as the US. And they have done more for their people as a whole than the US has.

But they still have ALOT of illicit activity that goes unreported throught the whole country. People have opted to brave the Canadian wilderness rather than the Mexican border due to the lack of boarder enforcement and law enforcement. People, weapons, drugs, and even trade contraband is a rising concern with the Canadian border.

And that stuff is coming to the US, not going to Canada.

But the safety thing is true for parts of the US as well. Not everywhere is like that. In fact most places aren't like that. It just sucks that we have a few making us all look bad.

But isn't that the case with so many things.

Quote:
Not really. I worked in a county ER in one of those slum type neighborhoods. Guns are far worse.

Guns were probably also more prevelent in the cases involved.

Culture does have a lot to do with weapons involved. Mexican women, lesbian women, and hispanic males had many knife related crimes a few years ago. Reason: Power. The use of a knife has more power behind it in some cultures than others. Females are vain (not all) and cutting a womans face is far worse than killing her. Hispanic males (not all) live in a machismo society. To cut someone is more powerful because it is done by hand, not from a distance. It displays their power over another individual. Some stereotypes had concrete reasons behind them. But as a whole society has become more lazy and less proud. Firearms have their own special tier of personification in criminal culture.

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The country is making a big mistake not teaching kids to cook and raise a garden and build fires.
-Loretta Lynn

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Thursday, December 4, 2008 10:07 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I see you have some misconceptions about Canada and Toronto.

Toronto is a world-class city. It has 2.8 million people, the greater metro area has 5.5 million. That puts the city proper on par with Chicago, the metro area surpasses Los Angeles.

Thanks to Commonwealth immigration policies, Toronto is extremely cosmopolitan. You'll find large numbers of people from all over the globe there.

More murder occurs in the Canadian hinterlands (the far northern parts of the provinces) than in the cities - the cities are not hotbeds of murder or indeed violent crime as people assume (as much crime as Canada has, anyway).

The information I have from a family member is that most of the illicit border activity comes through Canada, but does not originate there, and mostly, it's drug trafficking due to the voracious US appetite for drugs. Parenthetically - the supposed unrestricted border has a lot more radar, IR and other sensors than most people realize (from the same family member).

I'm not dreaming it, nor is this a matter of outlying statistics. The entire country of Canada had just 597 murders in 2007. Los Angeles City (not county) had 396. Canada IS a less violent culture, and the US IS, sadly, an extremely violent one.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Thursday, December 4, 2008 10:23 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Most of the violence I experienced in my life was in my youth. I used to get beat up fairly regularly in middle school. That stopped abruptly in High School.

I think the improvement was a combination of a change of environment and a massive growth spurt that caused me to tower over all my classmates. There were bullies at my High School, but those bullies no longer seemed interested in me, even though I was the exact kind of geek they targeted. I suppose it's easier to target the weak. In High School, I was safe, and anyone with me was safe.

As an adult, my life has been fairly free of violence. I spent most of my life in Hialeah, Florida, a city with a fair crime rate. It's physically connected to Miami, which is a place you may have heard of. When I came to Arizona, I lived in various 'questionable' neighborhoods before buying a house in one of them. I say 'questionable' because it's one of those areas that everyone 'knows' is bad because of the large immigrant population there.

I generally leave my doors unlocked until I go to sleep. Most people would say I'm nuts, and that evil men could burst in at any moment to take what's mine. Well, they could. Statistically, it happens.

The singular problem I've had in my neighborhood didn't come from the immigrants or the gangs who supposedly roam around where I live, looking to cause crime. The one problem I had in my neighborhood came from my neighbor.

One night, when I wasn't home, our dog got under the fence and entered the neighbor's property. He was upset about it, and he had a right to be. My dog doesn't belong over there. He started shouting and hollering about it, which got the attention of my wife. She went out back to see what was going on, and the neighbor said he'd shoot the dog if she didn't come by to get it. Well, my wife went right over to get the dog.

As she herded the dog back to our property, the neighbor's tirade continued. He said that not only would he shoot the dog, but he'd shoot her, too. And he had a real gun, he said, and went into the house to get it. Then he brought the gun out and fired off a shot, presumably to demonstrate the seriousness of his intention. My wife finally fled with the dog into our house, locked all the doors, and waited for me to come home.

When I got home I found her there, covered in dirt and pieces of grass, my dog happily panting as she quaked and told the tale. I was rather shocked to hear of this kind of behavior. It wasn't what I considered to be 'rational.' And she hadn't called the police, even though the incident had happened hours before I got home. Why? Because she was afraid of losing the dog. Since it got out of the yard, she was afraid the dog-catcher would take it away or somesuch. Women... Sometimes I just don't understand them.

She still didn't want to call the police, and I must admit I was a bit incredulous myself. I'd never met the neighbor man since moving in, but I'd met his wife and she seemed friendly and rational. I wondered if in the heat of the moment, with an angry man shouting, my wife hadn't gotten over-excited and used hyperbole to describe the situation. Surely, this neighbor hadn't actually shot a firearm? Surely if he had, she'd want to summon the police immediately. Surely she wouldn't put the well-being of a dog above her own safety. Surely other neighbors, hearing a firearm discharge, would have called the police themselves? Surely.

The next morning, we purchased many rods of rebar from Home Depot, and I went into my back yard, revolver on hip, hammer in hand, to hammer the rods into the ground along my side of the fence. I figured it would make a good temporary barrier to prevent the dog from undermining the fence in the future, until I could make more permanent improvements. I honestly still didn't quite believe my wife's version of events, but since she didn't want to involve the law to sort it out, I figured I'd better take precautions.

As I set to work hammering in the rebar, the neighbor's wife came to the fence. I offered her a smile and a hello, and she began to explain that her husband was very, very sorry for what had happened last night. I took advantage of this opportunity to ask, "Did your husband threaten to shoot my wife, and fire a gun?" To which she responded, "Yes, but he didn't mean it, and he's going to come over to apologize." Well, I was wide-eyed surprised. No hyperbole, apparently. This dude fired a gun and threatened to kill my wife. I decided to have another talk with my wife about notifying the police. It seemed doubtful to me that we could prove anything, but I wanted to have the incident on file in case of future problems.

Well, I went ahead and continued my work putting the rebar in the ground, and the next thing I hear is a voice from the neighbor's house: "Who do you think you are, Wyatt Earp?!"

I stopped my work and stood up. "Excuse me?"

That's when the neighbor came out. Defying any demographic for the neighborhood, he was a portly, middle-aged, bearded man with a southern accent. He helpfully repeated himself, "Who do you think you are, Wyatt Earp?!"

I shook my head, "No, sir."

The man began a tirade about how my dog had come over to his yard and terrorized his family. I apologized for that, and explained that I was hammering the rebar into the ground to prevent that in the future. He informed me that if the dog ever came over to his yard again, he'd kill it.

I said, "Well, sir, if my dog enters your yard and you feel threatened for yourself or your family, you have every right to kill it."

He got a bit excited, "Yeah, I'll kill it, and hang its carcass on the fence." This is when I got the feeling I was dealing with a guy who was a card or two short of a full deck.

"Well," I repeated, "if the dog entered your yard, and you felt threatened, you'd have the right to kill it. But you can't threaten my wife or fire off a gun in city limits. That's illegal."

He began by denying that he'd done any such thing, and ended by saying that it was his right to do so, since my dog went over to his yard. Then he said he was going to call animal control and have my dog taken away. At last, he went into his house.

I collected my things and went into my house and told my wife all about this chat. She finally consented to report the incident to the police... I think mostly because he said he was calling animal control.

I didn't expect much to come of the report, but it seemed a wise thing to have on file with the authorities. Turns out there must have been another witness, or he must have confessed, or his own family must have turned him in. He was arrested and convicted of a low-level felony, and his gun was confiscated. There is currently a six-foot tall block fence between my yard and the neighbor's yard. The dogs haven't been able to undermine it.

When I think about what happened, I think there's a lot of better things I could have done. I probably should have retreated to my house the moment the neighbor appeared and seemed antagonistic. I probably should have called the police myself on the night of the incident, regardless of my wife's desires.

I will say this, though... I think a polite tone and a revolver on my hip were a winning combination for keeping this belligerant man from escalating the situation to further violence. It was easier, I think, to threaten an unarmed woman.

I know there are bad men out there with guns. I count on the fact that there are good men out there with guns, too. I try very hard to be one of them.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Thursday, December 4, 2008 10:28 AM

NVGHOSTRIDER

You are right on all accounts. I'm glad you brought up the fact that the crime does not originate there. Well, most of it doesn't. we all have our dirtbags, even Canada.

But like Mexico not all drugs coming from the Canadian border come from Canada. People are just utelizing the weaker boarder control to their benefit. In fact if we looked at the numbers there are probably more drugs brought in through legal trade sources than the Canadian Border.

I'm not sure how diverse or embedded varying cultures are in Toronto. Also, it seems the Canadian government takes better care of it's citizens than the American government. And doesn't Canada have a stronger European influence than America?

Canada has one tenth the population of the US. America has been more racially diverse than Canada for quite some time. America is defiantely more violent than Canada.

Looking at the numbers the murder rate is predominant around urban centers which account for how much of the total US land mass and population?

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The country is making a big mistake not teaching kids to cook and raise a garden and build fires.
-Loretta Lynn

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Thursday, December 4, 2008 10:32 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

AnthonyT

Thanks for the story. It was interesting and quite evocative, though probably not enjoyable to you.

I'd have to think hard, but off hand I don't believe I have ever had a confrontation with a neighbor. All of my crime or violence-related experiences have been with strangers.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Thursday, December 4, 2008 10:41 AM

NVGHOSTRIDER

Consider yourself lucky. You know a lot of good people. Over half the crimes committed against women are perputrated by people thay know.

That may also be an indicator of out culture and the prevelant sexism within. Many women are assaulted by people they know well. It shows a defiante lack of regard for the women in modern culture. Traditionally my culture had the stricted mantra against violating a woman. They are the life givers, a step down from the creator. That seems to be a dying belief after looking at the last years worth of Tribal court docketts.

Alot of the numbers we've been looking at state somewhere something about crimes that go unreported. Let's say the crime was reported and the neighbor was actually an ex felon. He would be guilty of another crime which would put him back in prison.

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The country is making a big mistake not teaching kids to cook and raise a garden and build fires.
-Loretta Lynn

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Thursday, December 4, 2008 10:50 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

NVGHOSTRIDER

I'd like to get to some of your specific questions later, but I need to drop out for the rest of the day. Since I am quite liable to forgetting, if you're interested in continuing the conversation, might you pop this back up on top tomorrow ? Thanks, I'd appreciate it if you care to.

Oh - I like to think I'm a good judge of character and only pick the best !

(But, ahhh, that doesn't explain my good history with neighbors ...

Well, I'm just lucky, I guess.)

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Thursday, December 4, 2008 10:53 AM

NVGHOSTRIDER

Awesome. My brain is a little picked now anyhoo.

And Kudos on your people picking skills.

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The country is making a big mistake not teaching kids to cook and raise a garden and build fires.
-Loretta Lynn

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Thursday, December 4, 2008 12:25 PM

AG05

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Why should I settle for a revolver when the stick-up men can use an AK?

I think you're pretty well f*cked if you come up against people with AKs - you may buy some time but you will eventually end up with your empty gun scenario. If you have people armed like that in your neighborhood I'd seriously consider moving - no joke.

Dude, I AM armed like like that. Hell, most of the homes in my towm have more guns in them than people.

Crime of the week in my town? A couple of broken windows at a local car dealership.

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Why should I make myself publicly known to the government as owning a weapon, when none of the political/sports/movie figures do?

They should have to register, plain and simple.

Yes, they should. But things that should happen very rarely do. If they don't register, whats a $500 fine to them (assuming they can't get out of it)?

As it happens, I have registered myself as a firearms owner with the Texas Dept of Public Safety. Not registered per se, but I got a concealed handgun license, which kinda assumes I own at least one handgun.

I've no issue with mandatory training for gun owners. I had to take a class for my CHL, and another for my hunting license, so it's no big deal for me. I had no problem getting fingerprinted for my CHL either.

The reason? Texas is a "shall issue" state when it comes to concealed handgun licenses. You get a printed, get a background check, take the class, pass the tests (a written test and a shooting test), and pay the fee. Then, unless something pops up in your background check (which in more extensive than the instant check you get when buying a gun), Texas MUST issue you the license to carry.

If gun registration were set up along those lines, i.e; register the OWNER, and make gun purchase/ownership licenses SHALL ISSUE, then I doubt may firearms owners would have much of a problem. What pisses folks off are the "may issue" areas, where you have to convince the local head LEO that you have a pressing need for the gun, and all this other bullshit that basically leaves it up to local law enforcement whether you get the gun or not.

I thought some hear might like to read this:
http://cowtowncop.blogspot.com/2008/07/ccw-permits-from-law-enforcemen
t.html

Mercy is the mark of a great man.
Guess I'm just a good man.
Well, I'm alright.

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Thursday, December 4, 2008 12:35 PM

NVGHOSTRIDER

The great thing about CCW's (at least the way I've seen generally) is that the persons posessing one is constantly being checked. Once a week, once a month, whatever has been determined by the municipality issuing the permit. Not at all a bad thing.

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The country is making a big mistake not teaching kids to cook and raise a garden and build fires.
-Loretta Lynn

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Thursday, December 4, 2008 2:18 PM

AG05

Quote:
Originally posted by nvghostrider:
The great thing about CCW's (at least the way I've seen generally) is that the persons posessing one is constantly being checked. Once a week, once a month, whatever has been determined by the municipality issuing the permit. Not at all a bad thing.

Not here. I've never been checked on anything, apart from the 3 times I've been pulled over since I've gotten my CCW. I was never asked to show or surrender my weapon during those stops. I don't thing my info is given to the municipality, either (though they did get a call during the background check).

In Texas, at least, once you have a CHL you get to bypass the Instant Check when purchasing a gun. It saves a good deal of time and hassle for the buyer and the seller.

Mercy is the mark of a great man.
Guess I'm just a good man.
Well, I'm alright.

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Thursday, December 4, 2008 4:30 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Actually my primary weapon is intelligence and eloquence.

I used to, till recently, drive a cab in detroit, and was able and willing to go into areas others would not, picking up and dropping off because of the ability to effectively communicate and relate to even very bad people on the low end of society.

I never got robbed or hassled cause I managed to insinuate myself into their monkeysphere, and being the only driver willing to travel there, was an asset to them worth protecting, any of them who got ideas would be jumped by half a dozen others for even considering messing with me.

And knowing how to de-escalate a situation is critical, you did right Anthony, although I doubt it was a pleasant experience, there's the way the world should be, and then there's how it is, which is unfortunate, but cannot be denied.

Most folk unknowingly give off victim-vibe to the low element, and learning not to do that is crucial to survival although it's not an easy thing to teach or learn, or even explain, I KNOW Rue knows how not to, or she'd not still be here posting to us, perhaps she could give some insight when she has a chance cause my explaination and perspective on it prolly won't make as much sense.

My edge comes from being able to walk up to and effectively relate to and communicate with, everyone from an upright businessman to a wacked out crazy who'd loaded to the gills on some mindbending drugs - and walk away not only unmolested, but in fact leaving them with positive feelings towards me.

As for those rare few who cannot be swayed in that fashion, a strong control presence (see also: Marc Macyoung's work) is crucial to not becoming their victim, and the ability to shadowdance right back at them leaves them without the ability and opportunity to engage you with enough of an edge to make it worth their while.

I've rarely ever had to draw, and the few times I have were from such overwhelming advantage that the situation was resolved without popping caps, and knowing how to handle the machismo factor and let them save face, instead of leaving an insulted and vengeful aggressor, has on occasion even resulted in good relations with the person who did get a gun barrel in the ribs as a stern warning of what could have been.

That being said, I have a very different ROE to anyone crossing my doorstep with hostile intent, but the same reputation and rapport that protected my cab also protects my home - my concern is less for the low end criminal element than the high end (that being the State) cause my greater concern is a bunch of rocketjocks from SWAT all pumped up on adrenalin misreading a house number and bashing my door by mistake.

An apology means nothing to a corpse.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Thursday, December 4, 2008 5:07 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Gun locks save children's lives. Making them mandatory makes sense.

How about filling in all the swimming pools? More children die of drowning in pools than in firearms accidents.

in 2005, 75 children 14 or younger were killed by the accidental discharge of a firearm (789 for all ages). 810 were drowned (3582 for all ages). In fact, almost every other type of accidental death is more likely to kill children than firearms.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr56/nvsr56_10.pdf

http://www.poolalarms.com/pool_drowning_statistics.htm

In 1992 bicycles killed 260 14 and under. maybe we should ban bikes while we're at it?
http://www.helmets.org/cdcstats.htm

"Keep the Shiny side up"

In 2007, over 1-million children were murdered by medical doctors in USA. But that's part of the PLAN. Over 50-million genocided in USA so far. Gotta make room for 50-million illegal aliens.

Quote:
"The most stunning statistic, however, is that the total number of deaths caused by conventional medicine is an astounding 783,936 per year. Using Leape's 1997 medical and drug error rate would add another 216,000 deaths, for a total of 999,936 deaths annually. It is now evident that the American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the US."
—Gary Null, PhD; Carolyn Dean MD, ND; Martin Feldman, MD; Debora Rasio, MD; Dorothy Smith, PhD, Life Extension Magazine, Death by Medicine, March 2004 (plus 1.5-Million annual aborticides in USA)
www.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/mar2004_awsi_death_01.htm

Planned Parenthood Abortion Gift Certificates for Christmas:

www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Abortion%20is%20Murder/gu
ilt.htm

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Thursday, December 4, 2008 5:41 PM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

What the...!? Did anyone else see that?! Who was that poster??

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Thursday, December 4, 2008 10:35 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Speaking of wacked out crazies...

How was your thanksgiving, PN ?

Find any good dirt on Biden yet ?

-F

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Friday, December 5, 2008 7:22 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Lol This is GREAT!

Libs and the weaklings can get Zoloft/Weed on prescription....

But grandma and grandpa (from the Greatest Generation) can get something that will make sure those stupid hippies stay off their lawn...

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20081205/twl-guns-on-prescription-for-elder
ly-3fd0ae9.html

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