Current crisis more evidence that economy was on fire, doing great. by AURaptor

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Rap

"Think about it. There can't be a big dip in the economy unless there were say....57 straight months of growth. If you're at a low point, then you can't fall very far."

If you're at 8000 (down) you can fall to 0 (further down). You don't have to go UP immediately ahead of time in order to go DOWN. All you need is to have gone up at some time in the past. Like during Clinton's administration.

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Friday, December 5, 2008 2:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Think about it. There can't be a big dip in the economy unless there were say....57 straight months of growth. If you're at a low point, then you can't fall very far. But if you're actually at a high point, in terms of dow jones, low unemployment, there's really no where else TO go , but down.

Bush economy validated.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

BWAHHHH! Who cares if a president destroys the world? As long as the ruin gives us a few year's worth of artificial bubble beforehand, the president is A+ in Rap's world!

Really. You're Stephen Colbert, aren't you Rap? I mean, no real person can be this stupid, right?

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Friday, December 5, 2008 2:23 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by swish:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Think about it. There can't be a big dip in the economy unless there were say....57 straight months of growth. If you're at a low point, then you can't fall very far. But if you're actually at a high point, in terms of dow jones, low unemployment, there's really no where else TO go , but down.

Bush economy validated.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

BWAHHHH! Who cares if a president SAVES the world? As long as the GOOD gives us a few year's worth of artificial bubble beforehand, the president is A+ in Rap's world!

Really. You're Stephen Colbert, aren't you Rap? I mean, no real person can be this stupid, right?

So, the artifical bubble when Clinton was in office = good

When it's Bush in office = he's the ruiner of the world ?

Funny.

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Friday, December 5, 2008 2:24 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Without a doubt, the Economy was artificially inflated for much of the past several years.

I'm glad that you are able to sit out this recession, Mr. Raptor. Where I work, we've endured 7 layoffs this year and I'm hoping there won't be a last surprise before Christmas.

I ask, that as you effortlessly endure the nation's current adversity, you spare some thought for those of us that are struggling to do so. And perhaps consider that we may have reasons for not being entirely happy with economic progress under the current administration.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, December 5, 2008 2:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
So, the artifical bubble when Clinton was in office = good

When it's Bush in office = he's the ruiner of the world ?

Funny.

Speaking of funny: I don't seem to remember the economy in such shambles when Clinton left office....

Really, Rap? Please, explain how the situations are comparable. Use FACTS please. Your opinion is worth very little at this point. A graph of the stock market in 2000 versus the stock market now would do it.

Oh, you make it so easy yet again! Good job, Stephen.

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Friday, December 5, 2008 2:29 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Dot com bubble vs Housing bubble.

Fred made it crystal clear in the video. Might want to watch it again, if ya need to.

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Friday, December 5, 2008 2:45 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Here we go again:

http://stockcharts.com/charts/historical/djia1900.html

Look at the chart. Even IF you attribute the stock market fall-back in 2003 to Clinton (a full 2+ years after he left office), it still racks up an impressive gain from 2700 to 8000.

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Friday, December 5, 2008 3:22 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

YOOHOO ...

Waves hand - over heeere Rappy ! Anything to say ?

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Friday, December 5, 2008 8:59 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

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Saturday, December 6, 2008 4:46 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Damnit Rue, those are FACTS! What the hell is wrong with you??? Just get with Rappy's program, willya???

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Let's party like its 1929.

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Saturday, December 6, 2008 5:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Dot com bubble vs Housing bubble.

Fred made it crystal clear in the video. Might want to watch it again, if ya need to.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

Watch it again? I never watched it in the first place, Rap. I'm not talking to or about Fred Thompson - I'm talking to and about you.

When Fred Thompson starts a thread saying that the current economic crisis is direct proof of excellent policies by GWB, I'll make fun of Fred Thompson. But he didn't say that. You did. So I'm making fun of you.

***points and laughs**** BWWAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

Could you please just explain that logic again?

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Saturday, December 6, 2008 5:25 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Rappy. stop throwing out other peeps' opinions as if they were your own. BTW- Fred Thompson is an idiot.

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Let's party like its 1929.

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Saturday, December 6, 2008 5:47 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

This thread recalls to mind a popular movie, in which a spirited pair of women race along the American countryside in a 1966 Thunderbird convertible. The women are beatiful. The car is a work of art. It revs along, firing on all cylinders, a symbol of power and majesty.

All is not as it seems, however.

The movie was named Thelma and Louise, and the car in question was seconds from soaring headlong into the Grand Canyon.

Speeding along means little if you are speeding towards a cliff.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Saturday, December 6, 2008 7:01 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Okay- more data showing how "on fire" the economy was.

Personal saving rate
Rose under Clinton, fell with the dot.com bubble, rose again under Bush (but not as high) and is currently in negative territory... the worst in 73 years. (THAT'S historic!)
www.bankrate.com/brm/publ/passbkchart.asp

Unemployment
Under Clinton started at 7.3% and fell to 3.9%; under Bush started at 3.9% and rose to 6.5%.
www.miseryindex.us/URbymonth.asp

Federal Deficit
Started at $300 billion under Clinton, ended with approximately $100 billion surplus. Under Bush, started at $100 billion surplus, ended at approximately $600 billion deficit. (And that's not counting the war in Iraq and the bailout which were funded under 'emergency resolutions' and not part of the budget.)
http://zfacts.com/p/519.html

I provided Federal revenue data at least twice, so I'm not going to do it again, but it does not look good for Bush.

I blame Clinton for a lot of things, especially for NAFTA/ CAFTA/ SHAFTA and continuing China under most favored nation status. However, even THAT has caveats, as China's entry into the WTO occurred under Bush's watch (2001) and Bush has NOT been enforcing trade equity between the two nations.
www.manufacturingnews.com/news/08/1031/ChinaWTO.html
www.wto.org/english/news_e/pres01_e/pr243_e.htm

May I say again, Rappy, YOUR problem is that you only look at facts which bolster your case. Reality, alas, is not limited to events which agree with you. You will CONSTANTLY be blindsided unless you open your mind to information which contravenes your viewpoints.

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Let's party like its 1929.

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Saturday, December 6, 2008 7:06 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

So, the artifical bubble when Clinton was in office = good

When it's Bush in office = he's the ruiner of the world ?

The artificial bubble of which you speak started in the Reagan years, and just kept getting bigger. I'm amazed it made it to the 21st Century without bursting, I actually expected it to pop during Clinton....

The pin-in-hand Chrisisall

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Saturday, December 6, 2008 7:13 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

There was a dot com bubble, Chrisisall, but personal savings were up, wages were up, unemployment was low, inflation was low, the Federal government had a surplus, consequently interest rates on loans were low and the dollar was strong.

It was a bubble on top of a fundamentally strong economy. The housing bubble was a bubble on top of an economy that was being bled dry.

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Saturday, December 6, 2008 7:25 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

BTW- THAT'S why we're heading to a depression instead of a recession.

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Saturday, December 6, 2008 7:32 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"It was a bubble on top of a fundamentally strong economy."

There's a plus and a minus to that scenario, neither of which I've fully thought out.

The plus is that the dotcom bubble 'bursting' came about at the same time as a global recession. It's a little hard to apportion out how much was due to the bubble and how much was due to general economic slowing. One could even argue that if the global economy had been better, a portion of the nascent dotcom industry would have thrived through international sales and balanced out the failures. And therefore, there would actually have been no 'bubble' as evidenced by the pop, but rather a rapid growth in a new a thriving industry with no downside.

The other is that while Clinton did a good thing - which is balance the federal budget and take the federal government out of competition for loan and investment money - he also was a 'free-trade' fanatic which led to flooding the market with cheap imports while hollowing out basic domestic production. Maybe he was banking on new technologies to be the new productive engine. Or maybe he was hoping that while the economic barrel drained, cheap imports would artificially float consumer purchasing power and maintain a superior standard of living. Or maybe he was just a believer. In any case, I wonder how long those policies could have sustained a healthy economy. If those policies were not sustainable in the long term, I'm not sure that the other good things he did - raise the minimum wage and taxes - would have been enough.

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Saturday, December 6, 2008 7:41 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

The blame for NAFTA/ CAFTA and SHAFTA, and continuing China under most favored nation status is the reasons why I didn't vote for him. The guy thought free trade would solve everything. For such a smart guy he was pretty stupid on that.

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Let's party like its 1929.

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Saturday, December 6, 2008 8:00 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Oh yeah, one more measure of how "on fire" the economy was:

Income inequality
Greatest it's been since 1927. That's another truly historic milestone. The top ONE PERCENT currently rake in 25% of total income.

That's THE indicator that makes me think we're headed for deep shit.

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Let's party like its 1929.

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Saturday, December 6, 2008 8:05 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Free trade can be great. It is a neutralizing force, raising up the low, and pushing down the high. If you are on the bottom rungs of the world economy, free trade is bound to be a fantastic boon to you. If you are at the top, then Free Trade will tend to take you in a different direction...

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Saturday, December 6, 2008 8:15 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

If "free trade" is enacted only for BUSINESS PROFITS it will inevitably take peeps to the bottom of the barrel as businesses get richer and richer. There has to be an alternate force at work: international unions, international protection of "the commons" etc. to counteract international business.

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Saturday, December 6, 2008 8:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

So, the artifical bubble when Clinton was in office = good

When it's Bush in office = he's the ruiner of the world ?

Wait - did Rap just admit that Bush's "booming" economy was an artificial bubble? Doesn't gel with his first post, does it? Silly me, why would I expect Rap to be consistent LOL!

Which is it, Rap? Does the Bush economy suck only if you can say: "But Clinton was bad too!"

Anyhow, I'm no economist, but here's another thing that's annoying me about our present economy: its basis in monopolies. In a true free market we'd have dozens of independent car makers, right? So if one or two were so poorly run that they went belly up, they could be allowed to do it. They wouldn't drag the entire damned nation down with them.

These idiots who spent the past decade cranking out SUVs and huge trucks, despite the obviously changing market, should crash, imho. But their workers should be able to transfer over to the competing companies who planned and took a better path.

But our "free market" has no real competition like this. Our entire car industry relies on three companies. Only THREE companies. That's ridiculous.

And yes, I do blame Clinton, in part. And Reagan, and Bush 1 and 2, and the lobbyists who talked the idiots running our government into throwing anti-trust laws out the window.

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Saturday, December 6, 2008 9:47 AM

MALBADINLATIN

The Bush economy was clearly a success.

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Saturday, December 6, 2008 10:43 AM

SIMONWHO

I agree with Auraptor that Bush is responsible for the low gas prices currently around. By driving the US economy and the world economy with it into a deep recession, demand for oil has slumped and isn't expected to rise any time soon thereby driving the oil price down.

So credit where it's due, by ruining the US economy, you now have cheaper gas.

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Saturday, December 6, 2008 10:47 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

For a while there, I feared a weak economy with expensive gas.

I couldn't have survived.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Saturday, December 6, 2008 10:48 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"I agree with Auraptor that Bush is responsible for the low gas prices currently around."

Are you saying that the Bush economy is giving us all gas ?

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I am SO sorry for that. I couldn't help myself.

I'll go now and hide for a while.

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Saturday, December 6, 2008 11:07 AM