Information Overload by dreamtrove

Add just enough incisive snark to draw attention, keep it simple, and do not over explain.

I call it "Garden Pathing" as in, lead down one.

Some of the stuff I discuss is kinda horrific, and it's not my policy to inflict nightmare causing kinda stuff on folks who do not consent, and sooo...

I give enough clues that someone who WANTS to know, can go digging, and those who don't, can go away.

And in a subtle or cryptic fashion that plays to folks sense of mystery and yanks the same curiosity chain that drives folk to stick their nose into all manner of stuff.

It's the text based version of the stagewhisper, instead of shouting, you slowly lower your voice over time till folks are leaning forward, straining to hear, and by that effort, driving your message deeper in their minds that it would otherwise go.

It's the whisper that carries like a scream.

-Frem
"I am the Whistler, and I know many things, for I walk by night. I know many strange tales, hidden in the hearts of men and women who have stepped into the shadows. Yes ... I know the nameless terrors of which they dare not speak."

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Monday, December 15, 2008 5:36 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

In the age of discourse being reduced to two-word gotcha' phrases, generally, shorter is better ...

OR

You have to have a hook to really draw people in ...

OR

You have to make your point such that people really feel the choices ...

OR

You have to be able to line up your argument so coherently, so smoothly, so simply, that people will easily follow along to the end.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Monday, December 15, 2008 5:49 PM

Frem,

I basically agree with this strategy. Everything should be layered in bite sized nuggets. Each leads to a new level of discovery.

The short is I fail to catch the follow through, if it's there, so show me if you can, but take the point home. Lead by example, and if you can, define "incisive snark" without using the word boojum.

On the horror, I doubt you can shake me, but I never get any follow up when I ask you. Or when I ask anyone about anything. I think this is part of the reason for my interest in communication skills. I thought I was pretty good at it, but I don't have the skills that I need. It's not why I started the thread. I want a real debate on information theory. I think we live in a time when the quantity of information is staggering.

I just posted on another thread I was avoiding to do an analysis of the communication going on. Generally, here, everything ends in argument, which is probably the most pointless form of communication, at least in the manner displayed in, say, partisan politics.

Here's another issue: My post right now is too long. It should be <200 words, but I'm way too tired to edit. To be honest, I don't read a lot of your post's to the end. Even fewer of PN's. The quantity of text is a little too high, and like a story, if it doesn't snag me in the opening line, and then continue to draw me in, I'm lost. I try not to ignore people on the forum, but I'll admit there are a couple who have nothing to say, and a couple more who have things to say, but choose to bicker rather than say them.

I would guess that a lot of people abandon mine.

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Monday, December 15, 2008 5:54 PM

Rue,

on point three, please explain?

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Monday, December 15, 2008 6:05 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

This one ? "You have to make your point such that people really feel the choices ..."

For example, the journalist who threw his shoes. You can say it as a statement of fact, which is pretty dry and uninteresting. Or you draw the understanding that he knew he would be at least arrested and beaten up and maybe disappeared and killed, and, when the moment arrived, threw his shoes anyway. It was a choice he made. And it is helpful if you can make people feel what it would be like if they had to make that choice themselves. It increases understanding.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Tuesday, December 16, 2008 1:11 AM

Damn, plugged sinuses must have clogged your processes a bit there, DT - perhaps you should consider trepanation ?

*THAT* is incisive snark, aka doing the dozens, talking some smack, or whatever you chose to call verbal slammery with no actual hostility behind it.

Done right, it sets a certain tone to a thread and often by the snark itself reveals the direction imma try to pull the discussion.

I am subtle, in a very oblique kinda way.

As for lack of follow up on horrific topics, are you really that damn sure you wanna know ?

I warn you, much, MUCH more than 200 words, so if you're gonna just skim it, don't bother.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=35435

Third post from the bottom, with links.
You want more details, I can provide - moreso than you ever wanted to know, only excepting current cases in progress.

I do also tend to post highlights of some stuff here, from time to time.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=30966

That's just some starters, you'd have to ask for specifics, since I got like two decades worth of data on the topic.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Tuesday, December 16, 2008 1:49 AM

Here's an ironic thing - Frem, you almost always have good things to say, but pretty often I have a hard time reading your posts. Like in this thread, they tend to be many single sentence paragraphs, with no grouping to sort it. Especially on a long post - it's all these single separate ideas flying at me, and it takes work to sort them out.

Myself, I'm more for one idea, one paragraph. The reader can get the idea of what I'm saying from the first sentence, then skim/skip ahead if they think I've got TMI. It's just less work for them. And at the end, they can see I had, in this case, 3 points to make and that's easy to remember and to reply to.

I'm not sure if this is what DT had in mind for this thread. But I've been wanting to say it for a while, and this is too convenient LOL! And please, no offense, Frem. I really do like what you have to say. It's just those long posts of short paragraphs that do me in!

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Tuesday, December 16, 2008 1:50 AM

Because I'm a dork and like to experiment, I want to compare my above post to:

Here's an ironic thing - Frem, you almost always have good things to say, but pretty often I have a hard time reading your posts.

Like in this thread, they tend to be many single sentence paragraphs, with no grouping to sort it.

Especially on a long post - it's all these single separate ideas flying at me, and it takes work to sort them out.

Myself, I'm more for one idea, one paragraph.

The reader can get the idea of what I'm saying from the first sentence, then skim/skip ahead if they think I've got TMI.

It's just less work for them.

And at the end, they can see I had, in this case, 3 points to make and that's easy to remember and to reply to.

I'm not sure if this is what DT had in mind for this thread. But I've been wanting to say it for a while, and this is too convenient LOL!

And please, no offense, Frem.

I really do like what you have to say. It's just those long posts of short paragraphs that do me in!

ETA: And with that I'm off to work. I'll check in again tonight!

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Tuesday, December 16, 2008 3:07 AM

RIVERLOVE

Interesting topic, and for my two cents I have to agree that the overall quality of our lives has not improved from the onslaught of news and information from the web and cable tv. All these 2 or 3 day news cycle "stories" infect our consciousness to the point where we become numb or jaded. We don't really feel anything anymore, we just react. I find the daily news atmosphere in this country sickening. It's sloppy gotcha journalism, with almost all of it ideologically and agenda driven. I am most at peace with myself when I ignore the news and stay off the internet. It's a wonderful feeling sometimes NOT TO KNOW. I take an early Sunday walk every week, and I just focus on my many blessings, and what is important to me and my family. Almost nothing we post here comes into mind. Stopping to admire a family of ducks with their new babies near the pond, or looking up to see an ultra-light floating across the sky above, and things like that add to the joy of your life. Being over-involved or emotionally invested in current events is very silly when you think about it. You get all worked up over things you have no control over, what's the point? The world still is a beautiful place if you go out and look at it. So keep your cars parked on the weekend, and go out and walk or ride a bike.

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Tuesday, December 16, 2008 4:23 AM

That's not just for clarity, Swish, it's a combination of things - first of being that I cut my teeth on dialup ANSI BBS's (damn imma old bastard) with a text-per-message limit of about 80 characters so it's an ingrained habit to return that I have to consciously work to not do.

In addition, there's a lotta folk I know, some of whom read posts here but don't dare make em, that have vision issues, farsighted, cataracts, and the like which makes it easier to read for them, and I have a deep soft spot for kids and old ladies, especially pistol packin ex nun types, meh heh heh.

Add to it a sideways thought process at times so alien it's just not translateable, when thoughts that would ordinarily be commuted into one concept go divergent and really should be separated, but that's a helluva lot harder to explain - imagine it as sitting on a rooftop in the driving rain, playing chess while carrying on a conversation about sprituality and replacing bad shingles in between moves, rather than a single thought, often several completely different ones are wound up like a helix and all going on at the same time, so the spacing and separation helps me focus on the one I happen to be addressing at the time while the others keep on truckin in the background, you see ?

There's also that it heightens the impact of slipping in emotionally, politically, or social consciousness charged keywords to pull certain strings, or even in some cases, yank certain chains, without it being real obvious that such is going on, but anyhows, I tried to format this one a bit more normally - better ?

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Tuesday, December 16, 2008 6:59 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
The art of communicating effectively through the morass of noise is one which will take some time to master, but only those who do will be heard of the din of six billion voices babbling on billions of sites across the net.

The art of communicating effectively takes a boatload of money, because only messages that are repeated endlessly get through. Ergo, the most effective communicators are corporations and their admen, and churches.

That being said:

Words make the difference. If you use words that peeps want to hear, no matter what the content, they'll eat it up.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Tuesday, December 16, 2008 7:19 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

That's true.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Tuesday, December 16, 2008 7:21 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:

I just posted on another thread I was avoiding to do an analysis of the communication going on. Generally, here, everything ends in argument,

SHUT UP, DT!!!!

The

Chrisisall

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Tuesday, December 16, 2008 8:28 AM

Rue

Good point on choices. I thought you meant choices the writer made. You see where I got confused.

Frem

Snark = Snide Remark. Got it.
Okay, this generates a response, but this might be a device to waste everyone's time, rather than to win an audience.

Swish

You have a point. Also, Frem, Strunk and White. I find most of your posts too long. I spend like 15 min checking this board. I'm a pretty busy guy.

Riverlove

Yes, and it can create an infinite amount of content on any subject. A friend of mine emailed me about 30,000 words total about the meaningness of Obama's election to black people written by mostly white intellectuals, all saying the same thing, which is close to nothing. I think I can shorten that to: If the meaning of Obama's election to black people isn't obvious, on a social advancement/acceptance level, then you've probably been living in a cave.

Quote:
You get all worked up over things you have no control over, what's the point?

I really agree. I think there are a couple people here who discuss things that may seem very big, but that they do have control over, but 99% of it is prattle about things out of scope. Absolutely.

Frem

Always better to marvel at the new found thought than to rail against it. Something like that, Marcus Aureilius. Anyway, try using a text editor, and try to edit, and then post. It might become more readable. Self-criticism is the sharpest tool any writers has.

Sigsym,

I disagree. Nothing takes money.
I agree with tell them what they want to hear, and add your message to that, this requires defining they.

Chris

That's not argument. Unless you come from the Mitch McConnell v Harry Reid school of arguing ;)

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Tuesday, December 16, 2008 11:49 AM

Frem -

I do understand, both the ansi dialup history and the mind that goes in many directions, none of them linear. I don't mean to get down on you. I only busted your chops because I find your mind interesting and want to be able to follow it better. And yes, that last post here was easier for me, thank you!

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Tuesday, December 16, 2008 12:08 PM

Straight up...

There's quite literally no way in hell I can shrink it down to fifteen minutes, when I get rescuees or recruits, even a general familiarization takes almost a month given the scale and interconnections of the issues I deal with and there just isn't any way in hell to soundbite it without losing all meaning of depth or scale, or coming across like PN by not fully substantiating things that *have* to be fully substantiated to overcome peoples natural pyschological refusal to believe things that damned awful.

How to do you get it across to folk that we run what are more or less concentration camps, for children, right here in america ?
That we incarcerate, abuse and even murder them on a regular basis for no more reason than not accepting a heinous, ruinous and sociopathic social model when we try to ram it down their throats - that's not rhetoric, would you like a casualty list ? cause I keep one, you know.

How to explain in a soundbite the effect on society of taking the very best potential humans and destroying them, mentally, spiritually, often physically, in order to maintain a status quo so awful that anyone looking at it from an outsiders viewpoint with a single ounce of humanity remaining to them cannot help but be thrown back in pure disgusted revulsion at it's evil ?

And harder, to do it in such a fashion as not to send them fleeing in horror, to encourage them to act, and wisely, rather than retreating behind the comforts of filing it as conspiracy theory, or lashing out ineffectively and thus inadvertantly making matters worse ?

How to explain how the pharmaceutical industry is involved and abetting, up to it's neck in supporting the whole mess to ensure lifelong consumers of products manufactured to treat "disorders" they cooked up or skewed the diagnoses of in the first place, which set the stage for incarcerative "treatment" options so destructive to a persons psyche that the suicide rate of it's "graduates" is over seventy percent ?

Or the neurobiochemical effects and altered brain development that such longterm off-label forced medication and severe, chronic neglect and mistreatment cause, resulting in drastic developmental differences so very extreme that physical brain structure and composition is altered to the point of actual visibility on a CAT scan ?

Or the politics involved, or that this has virtually become a handy little shopping center for political black bag recruiting, and worse, a supermarket for predators of all kinds, often directly or indirectly working for one of the aforementioned groups ?

You can NOT soundbite it, it just cannot be done, the scale and depth is too great, but it really does come down to the root of nearly all our social and spiritual ills, how we treat our young, and by that treatment, stifle our own social, mental and emotional evolution to benefit a status quo that harms us all in the end.

Either develop the patience to listen and understand something more than a thirty second commercial blurb, or plainly accept that you are not willing to invest the time and effort to understand, much less address, the primary issues at the root of so many of our problems.

Cause this issue needs, and quite frankly *deserves*, more attention than that, and if you're not willing or able to spare it, then you've no business whatever dealing with it.

No offense, but that's the way it is.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Tuesday, December 16, 2008 12:55 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Frem

I know that thousands of children disappear each year - many are run-aways who can't stand an abusive home any longer, many are throw-aways who are tossed out like so much garbage.

In addition, there's that percentage of children abused and neglected every year, MOST of it in secret and NEARLY ALWAYS at the hands of their ever-loving parents or other household adults (and not by 'the system' you seem to blame for everything).

Believe me, in the ER I saw the products of that abuse.

But the situation is not one of unrelieved, endless, uniform child abuse. Most children are raised by at least one well-intentioned adult (usually a single parent) whose only faults are: not being omniscient and not being omnipotent.

Part of your inability to communicate is due to the fact that you paint a picture that is at odds with reality. People will not credit your words if you claim that all parents, or even most parents, are abusive, and that 'the system' is intent on beating every single child down using extreme measures.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Tuesday, December 16, 2008 1:18 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Personally, I think television does more to harm children en masse than parents.

Kids are awash in "information overload", but it's not information, it's propaganda: getting toys makes you happy, disney makes you happy, beauty makes you happy, sitting in front of the boob toob and having images flash past you makes you happy, playing violent video-games makes you happy...

ETA I (gasp!) agree with DT. You gotta separate the important from the unimportant. I don't stay plugged into the news... in fact, I barely watch/ listen. We're awash in crap.
---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:19 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I don't watch network news. I do scan a half-dozen US, int'l and foreign news sites.

What you said about children - that's why what we tell ourselves about ourselves is so important. Children inhale it. An example - this thing about 'my parents never loved me'. For several hundred years, the father was the household king. The mother and children were vassals, the mother's relation to the children was driven by religion and custom. It's not to say that some men didn't love their wives, and some women didn't love their children. It's just that it wasn't an expectation. The woeful cry 'my parents never loved me !' would have made about as much sense as 'my parents never taught me how to fly !' or 'my parents weren't purple !'.

Where and how kids pick this subtext up is beyond me, but they do.

But this probably more properly belongs in the 'wifely duties' thread.

In sum, information is transmitted all sorts of ways, many of which we don't even recognize and much of which we don't intentionally communicate.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:19 PM

Uh huh, and your definitions of "abuse" also means instruction in religious beliefs you do not agree with, and you advocated blatant defiance of due process and the law for the "system" to have it's way with the FLDS kids, despite me pointing out with hard evidence right in hand that said "system" offered *more* potential for abuse than where they were.
Do you really think I have forgotten that ?
That I ever will ?
http://168.215.229.9/mthread.asp?b=18&t=33401
For my part I am damned glad we did manage to get most of the bad apples off of that tree in the end, and without condemning those kids to a fate worse than the horribly traumatic emotional and pyschological damage already done to them at the hands of folks more interested in the destruction of a belief system they did not agree with than any noble cause, however they pretended to it.

Sorry if I find your own credibility sorely lacking on the subject due to your own prejudices on the subject and your faith in a broken system.
As for those within the "circle of trust" which are some of the most common and harmful abusers once again your intentional and purposeful misrepresenting and distortion of my position on these things falls flat in light of me repeatedly pointing out Protect.orgs "circle of trust" and "incest exception" campaigns which I am fully on board with - a fact you ignore every time you come at me with the same tired lies and distortions.
http://www.protect.org/Campaign/Minnesota/Minnesota-Circle-of-Trust-Ca
mpaign.html

Quote:
But the situation is not one of unrelieved, endless, uniform child abuse. Most children are raised by at least one well-intentioned adult (single parent) whose only faults are not being omniscient or omnipotent.

Once again, I am well aware of that, and instead of supporting them with actual functional resources, we encourage them to send them to these hellspawned facilities rather than admit their own failings and work to correct them.
Or simply blame the children and medicate them, yeah that's such a perfect solution to parental inadequacy, isn't it ?

Many parents are out of their league by virtue of a society that requires so much time and effort to be invested in pure survival that there's just not enough left over to do right by their kids, and I work against that factor as well, something you also felt the need to not mention given your innate biases and faith in a clearly broken system.
You can't even stick them on grandma anymore cause you had to cut her loose and dump her in a home somewhere so that time seeing to her needs can be spent undercutting the other guy for the one position not about to be outsourced so you can *maybe* make your house payments.

And you completely and totally distort my position with your final statement, deliberately inflating it to strawman proportions for the sake of not having to argue the facts of the matter, which are that our society is quite rife with this kind of thing, and that there are several tremendously profitable corporate industries based upon it that have little to no benefit to the children who are seen as little more than property and certainly less than pets by a legal system that doesn't dare consider them human beings because of the impact that would have on a very lucrative status quo.

And yes, I do have an issue with public schools beating down children in that fashion, demanding parents medicate them into compliance and suggesting they be sent off to the camps, and it's bloody obvious why grinding that particular axe is of such importance to me, being that I collect the salvageable human wreckage left behind by those policies and turn it to the potential ending of them.

When simply demanding an explaination for something, when asking to be treated as a human being, is considered a mental illness, something is very very wrong with our educational system, in my opinion.

And maybe YOUR reality, your nice comfortable place where you never have to drag an unconscious fifteen year old girl out of some nasty, filthy hellcamp in the dark while not tripping the security and then manage to make it back over the border without getting caught to get her back in the hands of her family...
But it sure as hell isn't mine.
http://www.antiwwasp.com/schools/35-wwasp-schools/76-high-impact-wwasp
.html

And yeah, let's talk about parental love for a minute - consider the profound depth of such that it took to look inside themselves and admit that they'd condemned their daughter to hell, and then when everyone told them they were overreacting, and that these things "didn't happen" and it was all a "conspiracy theory" and there was "no such thing", thanks in great part to folks like you...

And when no one else would act, went to an underground organisation considered little more than a pack of crack brained terrorists, again, thanks to folk like you, and begged for thier assistance in the matter, even offering to help personally in any way they could, that is love beyond measure.
There's plenty of parents in the world who love their kids, and when you look at how we "reward" them for it, it ain't hard to see why the practice is in decline.

So your slightly more distant reality is running up against nearly two decades worth of direct hands on experience here, and lemme tell you one thing lady...

For a FACT, when we started this, nobody but us even believed these hellholes *existed*, much less how prevalent and rapacious they were, and bringing it to light was always met with "no such thing" and "conspiracy theory".
And so we started bringing cameras instead of crowbars, warrants instead of weapons, and we put our boot up their ass six ways to sunday, even enlisting elements of the very system we didn't care for in our cause, like Congressman Miller, who smelled a rat or two himself and did a few surprise inspections instead of calling ahead, only to receive what was prettymuch the shock of his entire jaded political life.

So don't dare take that dismissive tone with me, I've heard it all too often before, and imma hand you the same choice I gave ole Rappy about it, you can either help bail out this little boat by offering useful and logical suggestions that might work in the real world - or you can just go away, but I don't take well to folk pouring water INTO the boat, and will always respond in a less than kind fashion about it.

You wanna talk about it, come up with some ideas on how to help decent parents, like my concept of a tax abatement for low income folk - refine that as a MUCH larger deduction provided one parent stays at home and parents, will folk abuse it on occasion, no doubt they will, people are human after all...
But it stands a greater chance of positive impact than doing nothing, doesn't it ?

So, help out, stand aside, or get run over - but standing in the way just because what I do violates your own precious little preconceptions about the world is just gonna get you the latter, every time you do it.

-Frem

PS. And while you're at it, how bouts comparing your "reality" with that of these folks relatives, and mind you, this is a mere FRACTION of the list.
http://teenadvocatesusa.homestead.com/tribute1.html
http://www.caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20List%20of%20Names%20-names%20omit
ted.htm

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Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
ETA I (gasp!) agree with DT. You gotta separate the important from the unimportant. I don't stay plugged into the news... in fact, I barely watch/ listen. We're awash in crap.

I agree as well. There was some point in my life when I realized that most of my expectations of how to react in any given situation were based on TV shows, movies and books. (I wasn't the most social kid and didn't have attentive parents, so this was pretty much my social experience.) It didn't work so good. Fiction is carefully constructed, and characters can do things that real people in real life just can not.

I've had to make a conscious effort to learn to interact with real people, and to define myself based on what *I* want, rather than what Disney or McDonalds thinks I ought to want.

I admit, it's rather sad. But I'm not the only one. I've seen folks here argue about the course the country should take based on TV shows. "But it worked on 24!" At least I was never that far gone LOL!

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Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:39 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Frem

12 (or 13, depending on report) FLDS men have been charged with child abuse due to at least one count of underage marriage each. By rough calculation, that's fully 11% of adult males in the compound. Remember, we're not talking about males doing this in secret and against the law, but according to a system of beliefs to which everyone was subject.

My belief is that little girls shouldn't be systematically groomed for underage sex and handed off to men as rewards. You got a problem with that ? Bring it.

Yes, our economy is broken. It's all about getting the rich even richer, no matter who or how many suffer to make it happen. And to that end, of course there are few or no resources for parents at wits end. And as you know, I hope, I am against that system.

And BTW - I never said child abuse doesn't happen, or that there are no places for people with money to pay who specialize in 'reforming' children. Seriously Frem, I know more than you think.

But if you're trying to convince ChrisIsAll, or SignyM, or the other good parents on the board who interact with other parents and the school systems that this is rampant, you will just get the big headshake as people drift away.

And I have one further word of advice - get out of your own way.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Tuesday, December 16, 2008 3:40 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

According to official statistics, a million children are abused every year. Because of under-reporting that figure could easily double, possibly triple. MOST of the abuse is parental neglect. Some of it is institutional. And some of it is fostered or preyed upon by procurors who cater to whims and fancies of the wealthy and powerful. I have absolutely no doubt that this happens and that is is horrific. (And BTW, you should ask Rue about the children that she saw at County hospital.)

But there are about 84 million peeps who meet the legal definition of "child". So while the raw NUMBERS of abused children is truly startling, in everyday experience, out of the perhaps thirty children that are in your child's class, there is a good chnace you will see none at all, and what you DO see is most likely neglect.

So the average experience is.... pretty bland. Frem, I understand your passion. We ALL need to stand up to child abuse.

BTW- How do you feel about that unintentional "safe haven" for older kids?

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Tuesday, December 16, 2008 3:55 PM

Frem,

If you talk, and do not listen, you won't get your point across.

It's not my job, as a random member of the audience, to seek out your message. It's your job, as the writer, to portray that message to the audience.

So far, objectively, I've read many of your posts, and have enough experience with horrors of all kinds, esp. the kinds you describe, to be able to understand and respond to your message. Yet I still don't know what the h you are talking about.

Now, before you find fault in your audience for not understanding, take some time to reflect on your message and how you convey it.

1. Overwhelmingly, you deal in particulars and abstracts without ever mentioning the generals and specifics. Start with something that we are familiar with. Rehab? Public school? Juvie? What are we talking about? The military?

2. From there, walk us through with specific stories, rather than just a sense of horror. Connect the dots for us.

3. It can always be said shorter. Your rant just now could probably be chopped in four without losing an ounce of meaning. This is what Strunk and White is all about. It's a difficult art, but it will increase your audience, it's core to writing.

4. The attitude here of "If you don't understand me that's your problem" reminds me strongly of a friend of mine, who is an aspiring writer. Everyone is a writer, if they communicate on a forum or blog or on the screen. But this attitude will not attract an audience. Proponents of this position believe that they will attract the people who care, or believe, or are smart enough, good enough to be their audience. But they're wrong. This attitude only selects for people who are bored enough, nothing else.

Nothing personal, I like you, and I think your posts are some of the more insightful on the board. But these rants are pure emotional outpour.

Quote:
FREM
something is very very wrong with our educational system"

Understatement of the year. But I still don't get what you do. Try to start at the beginning. Find your inner terminator, drop the emotional OD for a second and just try, 200 words or less, or as succinctly as possible, the problem, and what you do. That would be a good start. And, a small favor, avoid hyperbole like hellhole not because it's inaccurate, but because it's non-descriptive. Hell-hole could define about 1000 institutions out there right now. Top on my list would be Bagram.

Chances are that we're liable to be in agreement on this issue, but not until I can wade through the tears to get to the actual story.

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Tuesday, December 16, 2008 4:03 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

It all comes down to the breakup of the family.

When it is no longer an OPTION for women to work, but a NECESSITY, then the children ALWAYS suffer.

Throw in a healthy dose of "it ain't my fault/problem/issue" (not to mention the whole self-involved/important b.s.) and these camps and what-not start sprouting all over the place.

When did we forget that we are responsible for our own behavior?

Personally I think it was during the 60s...but thats for another thread.

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Tuesday, December 16, 2008 4:09 PM

Quote:
Swish
I realized that most of my expectations of how to react in any given situation were based on TV shows, movies and books.

This is by design. It's how the media controls behavior. Most people are in the same boat. I think that most of us considered ourselves unpopular, it was the image cast, that we were always unacceptable.

I didn't go to school, and that created a large social disconnect, about which I know jokingly say "but I didn't have to experience it, because now I have Buffy." But to some extent it's true. So, it can work in a positive way, its just that most information doesn't, because there is an endless amount of useless manipulative divisive and malicious content amidst an even larger sea of random greed based and ego based content, that decent information is hard to get to, and hard to get out.

The most profound message to me in Buffy is that the main characters are always the out-crowd, and yet, in perspective, they are the most popular kids in school. Our main characters have people that are there for them when they need them, even in extreme circumstances, and moments of intense personal doubt. Note The "popular" Harmony clique drops Cordelia in a heartbeat when it looks like a good idea. I suspect this is also close to reality.

I hope everyone has watched the show and knows what I'm talking about. Anyway, it's helped me relate to normal humans who went to school.

In doing so, and a couple years of teaching, I have to say that my impression is that, from an outside objective perspective, the system appears insane and beyond repair.

As a side note, I'd add that I spent a couple years helping and sheltering runaways in an unofficial capacity, and that the single most damaging aspect of their lives was usually their actual families, parents, step-parents, and I could tell some stories that I probably shouldn't, but if Frem is reading, he probably gets that we have some perspectives in common on this.

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Tuesday, December 16, 2008 4:11 PM

Rue, Siggy, the question is - how much of that are we willing to accept, to tolerate ?
My tolerance for it is a hell of a lot lower than most folk due to direct experience with the end results.

Dreamtrove.

I done already said, it cannot be soundbited.
Lemme see what I can do, 200 words or less, but I am pressed for time, and without the emotional overtones to humanly connect it with a persons inner self, to even try is downright meaningless.

-F

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Tuesday, December 16, 2008 4:15 PM

Wulf,

I was a child in a single parent household where my mother worked for what didn't really cover food on the table, let alone heat. As I said, we didn't go to school, and we had a total income of 3-4k/year.

You grow up fast, and learn to deal. I don't think it's a weakness, it's just life. I don't think I got a raw deal. I wouldn't change with someone else.

Sure, we all back-rationalize our lives in this manner, but it makes us who we are. I like the Sarah Connor Chronicles a lot. It feels a lot like home. I get irritated at John Connor for being too much a piece of furniture, and not being responsible like Cameron or Sarah. I find myself saying grow up JC.

Now I have to figure out what's making my fan go on and off on my new linux system.

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Tuesday, December 16, 2008 4:22 PM

What is it that I do ?

I wreck havoc against the systems in our society which are destructive to a childs development with their humanity intact, and the reason I am vague about it is that some of those actions I really would not like traced back to the folk who carried them out.
My part in matters other than a leadership role is almost wholly destructive in nature, and that has become less useful over the years as public knowledge of these places grows and such sabotage is less effective than exposure.
Consider me, if you will, a form of black ops specialist not working for a government or political faction, but rather for the single remaining section of our species that has no other voice politically, financially, or socially.
More or less the person who wove the underground networks that work against these places from the isolated threads of those maligned by them who managed to survive.

-Frem

There, prolly more than 200 words, but that's the barest minimum I can cut it to, there's just too MUCH information to cut it down like that, you're asking me the equivalent of teaching you particle physics in three days - it just ain't possible.

EDIT: There, cut out the spacing too, was pressed for time and forgot, anyhow, gotta go.

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Tuesday, December 16, 2008 4:30 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Frem

Please bump this up top tomorrow ok ? I have to leave soon.

But, briefly - most abuse is due to parents/ household adults. I just read (can't remember where) a study on neglected/ abused infants - most were neglected/ abused in the first week by parent(s) or another adult caregiver in the home, with neglect being more common than abuse. This is something you can't put on schools, or 'the system'.

I'm a strong believer in a safety net and oversight. Maybe in a small community it might be family or neighbors (though experience shows it is unreliable), but anywhere else it HAS to be organizational. Where families are scattered across continents and neighbors don't know each other, it is the only option left.

I would not like to see any abuse tolerated.

Given the limits we place on our government (don't provide paid parental leave - that's socialism, don't provide food stamps, heating assistance or jobs - that's socialism) it has to be about catching people doing wrong rather than helping them do right.

And so, we end up with what we have today.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Tuesday, December 16, 2008 5:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
The most profound message to me in Buffy is that the main characters are always the out-crowd, and yet, in perspective, they are the most popular kids in school. Our main characters have people that are there for them when they need them, even in extreme circumstances, and moments of intense personal doubt. Note The "popular" Harmony clique drops Cordelia in a heartbeat when it looks like a good idea. I suspect this is also close to reality.

But don't you see - this is exactly what I'm talking about. You base this judgment of "popular" folks versus "unpopular" folks on a TV show. Have you ever tried getting to know popular people and forming an opinion based on your experiences with them?

Harmony turning on Cordelia was written by Joss Whedon, probably written specifically to show that Buffy's friendships are truer than the "clique-ships". But that's not REAL. That's one man's carefully constructed plot.

I'm not saying you don't have real experiences, but aren't you just feeding right into this "information overload" when the examples you give of relationships come from a TV show? The show may rock, the show may touch you (it touches me and I do love it!) but it's still a product that Joss was able to sell to a network because it could be sold to enough viewers to attract commercial sponsorship. It's just not real.

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Wednesday, December 17, 2008 6:54 AM

There's that, Rue, I'm well aware of it, there's just so damned little I can *do* about that end, and it's not quite the monster-factory the other end is, usually.

In fact prolly 90% or so of abuse comes from inadequate parenting, but I do see that as a fixable problem - instead of waiting for them to screw up, being reactive, we need to be proactive and offer resources, assistance, hell, training if you wanna call it that.

But no politician is really willing to invest in something that won't pay off till they're retired and so, we have to push them, and it'd help a lot if folks left their own prejudices and agendas on hold while we got it to and focused on the universal things not to screw up, and I do believe we can DO that without getting into a brawl over what socio-religous mores and values get taught in the process cause for the most part that ain't our business - and that is where this concept always breaks down when we've ever gotten that ball rolling at all.

And you know, it always seems to come back to it, Family, and Community, the destruction thereof, or subjugation of it to the priorities of a Government, Corporation or Religion, part and parcel of the whole font of ills, and I been thinkin about it a lot lately, in combination with some of your earlier comments regarding productive vs humane societies...

My conclusion is that we need to redevelop a social clan/tribe system and rebuild our monkeyspheres in a fashion that envelops our communities with overlapping spheres.
Your block could be your clan, your city, the tribe, and so on and by stepping it like that you can include folks in stages rather than the ON/OFF switch we currently have between "US" and "THEM", you see ?
Instead of someone being automatically "THEM" they'd be "not my clan, but part of my tribe, so I'll give him a hand, unless he annoys me...".

In fact this has been in my mind a while too, and I really do see a solution in that, but how exactly to propose it, I wonder...

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Wednesday, December 17, 2008 7:17 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Hey Frem

THANKS ! for the bump. For the most part, I agree with what you say. And yes, starting small seems more do-able than trying to redesign the whole society from the ground up.

But a random related thought passed through my mind, and I'm going to need time to consider it. And that is the concept of 'family'.

In small, stable groups everyone knows what a family consists of (however it may be constructed, I'm talking globally), and who is in which family. In the city, among dislocated people separated from their usual family, and strangers to everyone else, family tends to be what you make it. Maybe one thing we need to do is expand our legal concept of family ... requires some thought to see if it's relevant ...

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:45 AM

Well, this oughta be of interest then.

The concept of "Family by Choice"
http://www.protect.org/articles/vachss_parade_9803.shtml
http://www.udel.edu/PR/Messenger/97/2/family.html
http://www.amazon.com/Family-Choice-Creating-Family-Strangers/dp/09251
90926

Of course, that's easier for me, not having so strong a bond with other humans in the first place and being poly on top of it, but I don't see where a little extra effort wouldn't make it possible for others.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Wednesday, December 17, 2008 7:08 PM

Oh, Bump.
I'm interested just listening.

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Thursday, December 18, 2008 6:49 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

And now, to carry this even further way, WAAYYYY off topic:

I think my friend's kid is autistic
I wish she'd consult a specialist, but she thinks she knows what's best.

By Cary Tennis
Dec. 18, 2008 | Dear Cary,

A few months ago I befriended a woman I'll call Susan. We have a lot in common, including similar educations, 3-year-old sons and "hippie" sensibilities. Over the course of the summer and fall we've spent a great deal of time together and once or twice a week we meet for play dates.

From the beginning it has been obvious that Susan and I have different views on "Western medicine." Although I'm somewhat cynical about Big Pharma, I generally believe that doctors and the medicine they practice can help us live longer, healthier lives. On the other hand, Susan is extremely skeptical of what she sees as "corporate medicine." While she has taken "Sam" to the doctor a few times when he was obviously ill with ear infections, she does not believe in vaccinations or checkups. As a result, it's been more than a year since Sam has seen a pediatrician.

Most of Susan's quirks I simply shrug off as reflections of her own laid-back personality, but as I've come to know Susan and Sam better, I am growing increasingly worried. From the beginning it was apparent to me that Sam is very, very different from most of the 3-year-olds I'm around.

Although he seems exceptionally smart in some areas (for instance, he knows his alphabet forward and backward and can point to the correct letter when his mom makes the sound -- pretty impressive for a 37-month-old), Sam only talks at the level of an 18-month-old. He screams if he is touched by anyone besides his parents (even a pat on the head or a touch by another child), refuses to make eye contact, regularly collapses screaming for no apparent reason, refuses to socialize at all with the other kids in our weekly play group, and favors strange repetitive play by himself. Other moms in our play group have noticed this. Even my grandmother, who met Sam at a birthday party, told me afterward, "Something's not right with that child." Susan has mentioned that a few people have suggested that Sam might be autistic, but she has taken great offense at this. Before I met her she had a job where she worked with special-needs kids, including many autistic kids, and she states clearly that she would "absolutely know if Sam had a problem." She credits his strange behavior as extreme shyness. I'm not so sure, and I'm worried; Sam clearly has a problem and I've read that autism may be much less severe if diagnosed early. I've tried to point out to Susan that checkups can diagnose a lot of hidden problems like lead poisoning. She's admitted halfheartedly that she probably should take him for a checkup "eventually," but so far she hasn't.

I'm not sure what else I can say to her. Her husband is very hands-off with Sam and generally defers to Susan on kid stuff. She plans on home schooling and says Sam is too shy for preschool, so there's no chance of a diagnosis that way. I should also mention that in all other ways Susan is a kind, attentive, conscientious mom who clearly adores her son. I suspect she's just in denial about this.

So here's my question: Do I simply butt out and hope, for Sam's sake, that Susan eventually admits there's a problem? Or do I force the issue, surely piss her off and lose this friendship? Or something else I haven't thought of.

Stymied friend

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Thursday, December 18, 2008 5:25 PM

Rue

Don't butt in and force the issue. This will not only ruin your friendship, but if successful, it will ruin Sam's life.

Sam is different, there's nothing wrong with that. He reminds me of myself. At 3, no one should be intervening in anything other than downes syndrome level of problem.

Sam appears to be an idiot savant. This probably means he'll have an above avg. IQ, and an awkward social life.

If you intervene, there's a slim chance that you can make him a medication dependent boring normal person, and much more serious chance that you will turn him into a human guinea pig.

I take perscription medications, and see doctors fairly often. So when I say "big pharm and medicine are evil" I mean that they are evil, or have evil in them. The biggest core of all evil is a deep conviction that you are right, the second key factor, is good intentions, and the third is the will to apply this knowledge and good intentions on others. If you have all three of these, you have the evil trifecta.

Mainstream medicine has the evil trifecta. That doesn't mean it doesn't perform a useful service, and that it's not a valuable assett to society. But like other organizations, corporations, the military, the law, govt. that have the evil trifecta, it is very dangerous.

They will experiment on Sam like they did on me not because they are nazis, but because they don't know what's wrong, want to find out, and "fix it."

I believe they had the same goal with me. To put anyone through that is torture, but to put a child through that is child abuse. Plain and simple. No grey area here.

When I was growing up there were actual autistic kids who couldn't talk at all. Not one of them turned out any less that absolutely fine. This kid is talking and relating, albeit poorly, that makes him automatically not autistic, see the dennis leary on jon stewart on "over labelling."

The kid could get a BS diagnosis like aspergers, but better to let Sam be Sam. Those people who have never been crazy do not recognize that crazy is a superior state of being in many ways. This is where our true genius comes from. Normalcy is a necessary evil that has to be mastered in order to deal with other people. Sam has many years to master that.

Finally, the mental health world is worse than the medical profession as a whole, no offense. When I think about the experiments they did on my sister, who is physically disabled, as a child, it was hell. Then I think of what they put me through, that was hell squared. Add those two together: Psychiatric experimentation on a three year old? It's hell cubed. My bet: You'll make a psychopath.

I know a ton about the subject of neurochemistry, and I could probably cure Sam in half an hour. I believe doing so is probably a crime against humanity and nature. My guess is that Sam has a gift, and that gift is getting in his way, in terms of relating to others. This can be dealt with without medical intervention.

If you put this kid on psychotropics, or give him to someone who will, those drugs affect a wide range of receptors, and during the early development years, that can permanently disable all sorts of higher brain functions, from memory, to the ability to reason to the ability to tell right from wrong.

Rule #1 of life: Don't f*^& with mother nature.

As for relating to others: If you know Sam personally, try, over the next few years, to get him to relate to at least one other person. Then, play two player games. Connect four, checkers, chess, go, battleship, whatever interests him.

Side question, does his mother smoke, or take any drugs, such as marijuana?

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Friday, December 19, 2008 7:00 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I posted it b/c it was an interesting question not b/c of any personal connection to that child.

There is a spectrum ranging from abuse through criminal neglect through questionable parenting to people being people and doing the best they know how.

Beating, kicking, burning, starving, raping, imprisoning and otherwise torturing children - clearly that's abuse. The people who believed their daughter would get better if they prayed hard enough - and she died of appendicitis - was criminal neglect.

The post above is a gray area.

I know several children who are brain-damaged. I don't mean kids with 'soft signs' - I mean kids who had major, life-threatening brain bleeds, or who didn't breathe for extended periods of time after birth. Their lives as disabled children are more difficult, physically painful, frustrating and limited than their peers. As wonderful as these children are, as much as my heart goes out to them, I find nothing beneficial to them in their problems.

But again, the post is a grey area.

Finally, I know some children with Asperger's syndrome, and their parents. The children (many of whom are now in their early 20's) are frustrated by their inability to relate to others. They have the same emotional needs as you or I - for example, the need to be appreciated - but are socially unable to do the things they need to do to get that. Some have 'splinter skills', which means at least average or above average abilities in a specific area. All have a very limited focus on very specific topics. One I know knows all about trains, but very little about anything else.

If there was a method of treating them - not necessarily medication - but brushing therapy for the sensorially defensive, rapid-response therapy and/ or sign-language for the non-verbal, or other therapies along those lines - I think children should be given those treatments as early as possible. But it also takes attentive parents - those who are alert to whether or not any particular therapy is helping, hurting, or a waste of time. BTW, children I know who've been through those therapies don't seem to lose abilities, but they do seem to gain better overall function.

I guess I've concluded, in sum, it would be a shame if the boy were not treated with those therapies as early as possible.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, December 19, 2008 9:31 AM

OUT2THEBLACK

Carbon Unit...

De-process nonrelevant information .

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Friday, December 19, 2008 1:52 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

I'll play:

Holy Sh!t
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=36080

Nuff said.

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Friday, December 19, 2008 3:43 PM

Forced conformity is bad. Children are far more capable of thinking than we give them credit for, As a child, my tormentors were other children. Some of my friends were tortured by their parents. Not all of them recognized it as abuse per se, but all of them wanted to leave.

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Friday, December 19, 2008 7:17 PM

NCBROWNCOAT

Rue,

You are between a rock and hard place. You might try "leaving" articles where that Mom can pick them up and read them in private.

Or do like my daughter's first grade teacher did. She very gently told me that she wasn't a doctor and couldn't diagnose things but that my daughter was having problems in class (you might substitute play group) and gently suggested that she needs to be seen by a professional.

In the end it turned out that she was absolutely right, My daughter has Asparger's Syndrome. She wasn't formally diagnosed with Asparger's until she was 12 or so and was originally diagnosed with ADHD at age 6 by her pediatrician. I knew something else was going on besides the ADHD and had even had her hearing checked at a year old but couldn't put my finger on it.

She wasn't formally diagnosed as an Aspie until she was 12 and as the counselor told me at the time, "It's just a label for someone who doesn't have severe autism but is on the high end of the Autism Spectrum."

She has a constellation of things going on, ADHD, social frustration, the feeling of being bombarded by stimuli (that makes her want to withdraw)and some learning differences.

One thing that's really helped her is just talking to a counselor that specializes in children and adolescents. Just having a non parent/family member to listen to her and provide support has helped her enormously. She's gone to the same one since she was 9.

We've formed an informal team of me, my daughter, the counselor and a psychiatrist, who together decide things. She's been fully involved since about age 14 and to a limited extent before then.

Together we've tried things from brushing (even scratching her back lightly or massage really relieves her built up tension and frustration, it seems to be the stimulation that does it. It blocks out the bombardment in some way)) to various drugs.

If the drugs didn't work they were quickly stopped to the point that she only takes one for depression (it's a family tendency, I have it too) and Adderrall SR for her college classes and study times. It's up to her to determine when she needs it and to take it.

She's still full of quirks and not everyone accepts her. She loves routine and changes have to be introduced slowly. She dresses in loose, mostly cotton clothes (full polyester and wool especially, really irritates her). She has few actual friends but the computer has been her savior and one day soon the world will have a very creative web page designer/hopeful RPG designer.

BTW She was the one that dragged me to a showing of "Serenity" and after I found this website told me to "Embrace my inner geek." which I have done with gusto. So much for normalcy. LOL.

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/

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Friday, December 19, 2008 7:40 PM

SHINYGOODGUY

Hey Fremmy,

It's the whisper that carries like a scream.

It always helps to whack 'em over the head with a cast-iron frying pan as they lean in to hear, eh Fremmy?

The Totally Kidding SGGisall!

Tawabawho?

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Friday, December 19, 2008 10:26 PM

Some of em, yeah, just because.

Part of it is folks thinking my stuff is aimed at the conscious mind, at folks logic and reason, which, factually, it ain't.

I strike deeper than that, aiming for the same depth that music, poetry and art reach, inside a persons subconscious, attempting to reach the crushed and battered childhood locked neatly in a cage and told to stay out of the way so that we can pay the bills and fit in with a society that makes us the dark slaves of wicked masters.

I wanna reach that cage, and pick the lock.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Monday, December 22, 2008 7:03 AM

SHINYGOODGUY

I agree but it depends on the effect desired and the receiving end. Do you want to reach as many people as possible, meaning the masses, or do you want to reach out to specific individuals.

The art of communicating effectively takes a boatload of money, because only messages that are repeated endlessly get through. Ergo, the most effective communicators are corporations and their admen, and churches.

There are those that may be bored, or may not "get" what is said in a Sunday Sermon. Or may find the ads lacking in cohesive intelligence. We have been conditioned to channel surf and move on to the next thing (SAP) with ever-increasing speed.

Tawabawho?

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Monday, December 22, 2008 1:58 PM

Good points all. I was more thinking of the difficulty of reaching useful information, or communicating it through the din of the web. One can inundate oneself with an infinite quantity of information supporting not only one's own views, but also keeping an extremely narrow focus on very little actual underlying data.

Those who master information theory will be the ones who communicate, not those with money. Everyone might recall in a couple years back that Will Wheaton had more influence than President George W. Bush. It's an art, and one I'm interested in. I think Pirate News has some theories on it, some of which he sent me personally, and much thanks.

Anyone else have a take, feel free. If anyone's interested in the idea, we could start our own "Can't stop the signal" thread to discuss it.

One thought that's occurred is that there is too much chaos here. Most threads are someone holding forth and others arguing with them, short lived divisive clutter that burries more interesting ideas. No offense to those who have done it, we've all done it, except for maybe the odd lurker or two, but if I have a lord he'd know I've done it.

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Tuesday, December 23, 2008 1:10 AM

SGG, in all honest truth, mostly I hang here to chat with interesting folk, but if you mean who I'd mean to reach by the way I say things...

No, I'm not aiming to reach the masses, it's not my forte although if needs be I could maybe do it - I leave that end of things to folk far better at it than I am, cause to do so leaves me feeling disgusted and aggressive towards other human beings moreso than normal due to having to appeal to a trained-in nature that I consider both sociopathic and borderlining on evil.

I aim to reach certain folk, those words, to the people I mean to reach with them, strike true straight to the heart, not the mind, and they reasonate with certain truths (subjective ones, mind you) that are buried within their psyche, but it's not something I am very good at explaining, but HKCavalier is, when he chooses to post.

Believe me, I do reach my intended "audience" that way quite effectively, but I choose to communicate in the same form around here because I shouldn't have to put on airs or dress things up to chat with folks I consider as much friends as the anonymous nature of this medium allows.

I make a similar argument to the churchies, when I bother to actually show up, being that I am Unitarian Universalist in general, much of their congregation shows up in "sunday best" and I do not.
Whenever comment of that is made, I simply point out that you dress up to go to a strangers house, but you do not when visiting an old friend, and what does that say about the folks sittin in the rows today, eh ?

Same principle applies in essence, to communicating here.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Tuesday, December 23, 2008 6:13 AM

SHINYGOODGUY

Fremmy,

SGG, in all honest truth, mostly I hang here to chat with interesting folk,

Oh, I know my friend. There are several folk here that communicate well in this little 'verse of ours - you, Siggy, Rue, Chrisisall to name a few. I was responding to something Siggy had posted on 12/16. I must admit that I had just gotten home from work (I work the graveyard shift) and I was a bit groggy when I wrote it.

When I read it over I could see that I was a little unclear as to my point. But no, I do know that you choose your words carefully and strive to be as effective as possible in making your point. For the most part, when I read your comments, I pretty much "get" where you're coming from. I always thought that it was better to speak TO someone than AT someone.

The churchies, don't get me started! Sunday best, gorram hypocrites. I have nothing against those who choose to pursue the "higher ground" but, more times than not, it winds up being abuse and exploitation of poor folk. But don't get me wrong, given the right type of folk it could serve a positive purpose, much like this forum.
And it is connected to communication.

The information overload on the net has made the world smaller or more accessible to more folk. It is my belief that one must wade through all the bullshit and focus upon what will serve their purpose in life. Whatever is important to you well, is important to you, and one must follow their heart and that one thing that makes them go.
For me it is family. I believe that is why I'm a Firefly Fan.

(Below is Siggy's post)

SGG
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Quote:
The art of communicating effectively through the morass of noise is one which will take some time to master, but only those who do will be heard of the din of six billion voices babbling on billions of sites across the net.

The art of communicating effectively takes a boatload of money, because only messages that are repeated endlessly get through. Ergo, the most effective communicators are corporations and their admen, and churches.

That being said:

Words make the difference. If you use words that peeps want to hear, no matter what the content, they'll eat it up.
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Tawabawho?

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Tuesday, December 23, 2008 7:07 AM