Bored Now by dreamtrove

There is much wisdom in faith, and with luck, much faith in wisdom. Everyone knows my faith, I've made no secret of it.

I was here for a long time before. I see now that it's a self feeding dog pit, no offense, where people can tear each other's throats out.

I'm not really interested in just discussing a long dead TV show. I was more concerned with serious resistance to the actual abuse of power.

The best post while I was here was the link to the Jungian animal archetypes.

Fairwell. I'll check this thread for a day or two in case someone wants to say something. Otherwise, just email me.

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Saturday, December 27, 2008 7:36 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Okay, I know you don't THINK you're being offensive or confrontational in other threads, but when you characterize anyone who believes in private gun ownership as a "lone nut holed up with an AK", it does indeed tend to offend those of us who enjoy shooting, but aren't looking to kill ANYTHING other than a few cans or paper targets.

And when you engage in such namecalling, you really can't expect less to come back on you.

We CAN have reasonable and reasoned discussions, but it demands civility from all sides of the issues. I've seen you call others trolls for disagreeing with you, so it's not like you're above all this mess...

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Saturday, December 27, 2008 11:17 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Oh grow a set you fuckin pansy.

You come in, act all superior, won't do any of the research required to discuss the topic intelligently, get annoyed when someone pushes you into it, and then get all offended and throw a petty little tantrum cause folks took issue with your own truly overwhelming arrogance ?

Welcome to the realities of the internet.

Cry some more.

-F

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Sunday, December 28, 2008 5:19 AM

KWICKO,

Civil discussion does go on, but there is interference from trolls. Troll is fair. In fact, it's totally applicable. I will grant that at times I have responded to hostile attacks with hostility, my mistake for feeding the trolls. But, as it was, we were having a discussion, and then, as usual, trolls intervene.

I try to refrain from saying things I might like to say like "Grow up" to some of these posts. The sad thing is, the young people are perfectly civil, the grown men are childish.

If I'm above it, then that says nothing about me, since I am a stationary object, without strong feeling or attachment. The world flows by me, and does not affect me. However if people see this, and think that I am haughty, when I am completely neutral, then they should consider that perhaps they are standing in quicksand.

Honestly, I think trolling is a serious problem on this board, and sure, my mistake, I fed a troll or two. Sometimes, people who occassionally have interesting things to say, can be trolls.

As for lone nuts holed up with an AK, that was addressed to people who were defending their right to be lone "gun owners" holed up with their AK, thinking that they will single handedly stave off the power. I've known people like this, and ones who have had their judgment day come. It never goes well. The perception that this perspective is "nuts" is social commentary, but it is objective social commentary. I'm not judging their strategic decision to fight the power, only their tactical decision on how to do it.

FREM is a windbag. This is a personal attack. But it's also objective. His posts are the length of PN's and frequently contain no information at all. That's fine. We can just skim them.

But he's also a troll. It's perfectly fair, and objective. As witness, he directly followed your post to make my point. My job is easy, everyone is always making my points for me. In the gun thread, people did it many times.

A troll is seeking attention, in the form of a response. Nothing there merits a response. If I respond, I feed the troll. Everyone who has been paying attention gets that I am a stationary object. The ability of people to faze me with internet posts is less than zero, it's absurd.

My mistake is in thinking that just because on occasion someone has something insightful to say, that they are not a troll.

I would make one other objective analysis about frem that will be taken as a personal attack, like my suggestions about communication, but could be taken by a more open man as advice.

Frem spends a great deal of time building himself up as superspy. Spies past and present are not impressed. Upon reflection, I'm not all that impressed with spies. He did tout himself earlier as a hero, who had to travel undercover. Now he says he's not a good guy. Well, he's smuggling children, draw your own conclusion.

The short answer is, there's no reason to read any more of his posts. Trolls are trolls.

If we could boot the trolls, then I think civil discussion would take place. Or perhaps its just a failing in myself, and I would say, others as well, because once the trolls start posting, sane people drop out.

Out2theBlack surprised me by being civil initially, and then going all troll. Some trolls have a person inside trying to get out. Others just want attention.

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Sunday, December 28, 2008 5:56 AM

CHRISISALL

IMO, there are actually no trolls about at present (though Whozit sometimes mimicks one just to test our Troll-meters), I feel it's more like WWF around here sometimes...LOCK THE CAGE DOOOOOORS AT THIS TIIIIIME!

The wrasslin' Chrisisall

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Sunday, December 28, 2008 9:00 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I feel it's more like WWF around here sometimes...LOCK THE CAGE DOOOOOORS AT THIS TIIIIIME!

The wrasslin' Chrisisall

That's a cute outfit. Did your husband give it to you?

Raptormanisall

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, December 28, 2008 9:21 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I feel it's more like WWF around here sometimes...LOCK THE CAGE DOOOOOORS AT THIS TIIIIIME!

That's a cute outfit. Did your husband give it to you?

Raptormanisall

Goodoneisall

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Sunday, December 28, 2008 9:34 AM

There are perhaps, part time trolls.

If you flame a response that was not intended with anger for the purpose of perpetrating an angry retort, I think that's trolling.

We have a Spammer, but he's a friend of mine.

Whozit is almost a troll, but he's also more of a spammer. He's just the kid who wants attention, but he doesn't tend to flame people too much.

Auraptor's above post is mock-troll. I think AU, you used to have troll-like tendencies, but I've seen no sign of them lately.

Mostly I signed on to post this, as to the wave of furor about my misinterpretation of the 2nd amendment. While I openly and freely admitted to being wrong, I think I made several good points, and it is a personal issue for me because I have recently lost a friend to reaver culture, and also, I've had a couple people go all hole-in-the-ground and it has not ended well (in jail now, not dead.)

You will grant that I walked in at a time of all out partisan flame war with no productivity, and like my friend who served in Basra, I was there trying to sat to both sides "stop", and then did, for a while, and then, like with him, they started firing at me instead. Here's a tribute to this, which many of you have met before:

http://blogs.technet.com/photos/gray_knowlton/images/2998979/original.
aspx

But I think that this is a more proper response to my detractors over

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Sunday, December 28, 2008 9:54 AM

I actually used to be a regular on FFF.net about 2 years ago. I know NVG and MSA were here back then, but I don't recognize many other names. But if you were to ask one of them they could tell you that I was hated back then, with a vengeance. One girl started an entire thread about how I was so horrible that I should be banned.

Granted, I had some very outlandish things to say, but I believed them, and I still do. I think the natural tendency of social groups to band together in chastisement of others who don't conform is made worse by the anonymity of the internet. Add in a subject that people are very passionate about and you have a recipe' for disaster. I think the one that got me in a lot of trouble a while back was daring to suggest that rape victims are partially responsible for what happens to them by putting themselves in unfavorable scenarios and making themselves targets.

Course I also responded with a lot more hostility than you do. In any case, I think this becomes a problem anywhere you look online. No matter how nice a group seems when you get there, things will go to shit somehow. Take a break, leave forever, or deal with it, all depends on how you want to go about it.

Ride down from Asgard to the battlefield,
Bringer of the valiant dead who died but never yielded,
Carry we who die in battle over land and sea,
Across the rainbow bridge to Valhalla,
Odin's waiting for me.

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Sunday, December 28, 2008 9:56 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Gee Dream, I'm just having a bit o' fun w/ Chris. He knows it. That post wouldn't have worked as well with just anyone.

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Sunday, December 28, 2008 10:19 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Yanno, for someone who says they don't care, he's gone pretty far out of his way to paint a nice dark picture of me in direct contravention* to the info I gave him, hasn't he ?

Doesn't seem to have detected the difference between defending a "trip-wire" right to stay further abuses, and nuttery either, but that's par for the course for someone who seemingly shuts off their brain when they hear something they don't want to and them blames the other persons communication skills.

I detect a bruised ego, and for someone who's fond of throwing troll accusations around, yeah, let's talk about winging stones from glass houses, ehe ?

Dude needs to get over hisself, you ask me - we're all unimportant, the folks history steps on, and maybe sometimes, if we're slick, we can step back a little, but in essence, we're nobodies - accept this, and the fact that because of that, what we think doesn't matter much, it's what we DO, collectively, that does.

*Oh yes, and it's obvious you didn't bother to visit the links I provided earlier cause it was too much work for you, huh ?

Draw your own conclusions, folks.

http://www.caica.org/
http://www.isaccorp.org/
http://www.teenliberty.org/
http://www.nospank.net/boot.htm
http://cafety.org/
http://www.protect.org/
http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php

Yeah, that cause is so evil, sure.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Sunday, December 28, 2008 11:06 AM

RIVERDANCER

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
The ability of people to faze me with internet posts is less than zero, it's absurd.

You're kind of acting like it fazes you. I'm not saying that's a bad thing in and of itself. Words can be powerful. It's kind of silly to say something can't faze you at the same time you're reacting to it, though.

Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisMoorhead:
I think the one that got me in a lot of trouble a while back was daring to suggest that rape victims are partially responsible for what happens to them by putting themselves in unfavorable scenarios and making themselves targets.

You mean people got mad at you for stating the most harmful and damaging misconception that prosecutors, councilors, and victims have to deal with in the area of sexual crime? I can't imagine why.
That kind of 'opinion' wouldn't be applied to any other crime.
"But your honor, it's not my client's fault, the victim just made themselves too killable."
Use your brains.
If your post here was meant to show sympathy with dreamtrove, I think you failed rather abjectly.

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Sunday, December 28, 2008 11:40 AM

Riverdancer

If it phased me, it would move me to a different plane. It didn't faze me either.

Auraptor,

Yeah, I got that, hence the pointed mock-troll comment.

Chrismoorhead,

Yes, I know, I was there. You've gotten calmer, some folk have gotten more agitated. Most improved is auraptor, who is positively mellow. finn is more agitated. Chrisisall was always mellow. Frem was there, still is, but now he is clearly off his meds. PirateNews is much more straight than usual. He could clearly edit some. Whozit I don't remember. He's like some random kid jumping up and down in front of the camera.

It's not a matter of whether or not there will be hostility, it's whether or not it is an effective use of time. People who do things or have the potential to do them are worth the time. A fair number of you I like, I used to like Frem, he went out of his way to make me dislike him. Also, he has grown this colossal spy ego thing, and for the record, he called himself evil, not me. And before this post, track back.

There are issues with this group, collectively, that you guys need to sort out. The combined net effort is getting nowhere. I made some headway earlier, on my attempts to united people against a common enemy, and when I come back in, people were at each other's throats again over partisan minutia.

Never catch a falling knife, or try to save a drowning crocodile. No offense.

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Sunday, December 28, 2008 11:58 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Dreamtrove

You are right, this forumn is not what it was a few years ago. You are also correct that there is a lot of crap in the RW thread - so what? Basically it comes down to each person. If you don't like what is being said in a thread - don't go in it. If you think someone is a troll ignore them. If you decide to take someone on be prepared for the flame. Sometimes it is worth it and sometimes is isn't.

There is a lot of the pot calling the kettle black here. We all do it. Posting a thread threatening to take your ball and go home does absolutely nothing. Unless of course you ate looking for attention.

As for calling everyone that disagrees with you a troll - well that is just silly. There are only 2 certifiable trolls on this site and they are harmless if annoying.

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

Yes We Did!

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

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Sunday, December 28, 2008 1:01 PM

WHOZIT

You should post a thread about a puppy!

I'm going to microwave a bagel and have sex with it - Peter Griffin

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Sunday, December 28, 2008 1:24 PM

FMF,

If I want your advice, I'll ask for it. On second thought...

Count that three.

I saw mayhem of people caught in an endless battle of infighting. It apparently doesn't like being called out on that. No matter.

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Sunday, December 28, 2008 2:00 PM

RiverDancer - If someone walks down a dark alley in a bad part of town, unarmed, and they get killed, yes I'd say it's partially their fault as well.

Your court comparison is completely off base, as I never said anything about the legality of it, only the responsibility victims, and not all victims, but some victims have in what happens to them.

I still have the police reports of and a huge scar from pissing in the bushes outside of a shopping mall a couple days away from New Years in a not-so-nice part of town. It was an unlit area, and I specifically waited for a mall security vehicle to pass by. I put myself in that situation and I accept my responsibility for what happened.

I never went to parties where I knew there would be alcohol or drugs when I was younger, and I still don't, because I don't like putting myself in those situations. If a a girl is so desperate for socialization that she's willing to go to those types of parties and put in a one-on-one situation with any guy, she should accept her part in what happened to her. That's not to say charges shouldn't be pressed against the aggressor, but by telling a victim that they had no responsibility in what happened to them takes power AWAY from them. It makes concessions for the fact that they had control of the situation up until they were alone with the rapist, and sometimes even after that.

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Sunday, December 28, 2008 3:41 PM

Chris,

I hope all is well on the eastern front, and have no desire to pick another fight. I thought I would take a moment to relate a couple of stories to ponder, that they may enter into the total set of data.

My roommate was raped by a man who followed her into her home, uninvited, and not a man she knew. She was not at the time a snappy dresser, and there was nothing provocative about her nature. The same man would later rape her younger sister.

Now, initially, you might discount this case as not applying to your model. However, the girl in question was very much the girl you describe. She was frequently about town, at parties, having a good time. The rapist came from none of these connections. He was, in fact, her neighbor.

This is, as there often is, another side to the story. Her home life was very unhappy. Her family poor, and her house in squalor, and her parents abusive, though not sexually. The frequenting of parties represented the only escape.

If I may, I would suggest that perhaps it is not the situation one puts oneself in that asks for the crime, but the definition of the crime as being itself vague.

Another case of "rape" was of a girl who began to bleed during sex. She became convinced that this made the sex rape, though her boyfriend, who was not new, or in any way violent. The final story was that it turned out that the girl in question was pregnant, and had a miscarriage. Since there was no intent of any sexual misconduct from the boyfriend with his long term girlfriend, the charge, had it been legally levied, which it was not, once it had been sorted out that the bleeding was a miscarriage, and not damage caused by the boyfriend, the matter was settled, but the two broke up anyway.

While both of these cases are cut and dried, there is a lot of grey area in this matter. The situation someone puts themselves in does not denote the sentence that they receive. I have many times gone into the den of gangsters and drug dealers, and considered myself to be "not asking for murder."

However, I would be tempted to agree that the word rape is thrown about sometimes too loosely, (and sometimes not enough.) An old rule was that rape require a weapon, or force of some kind. I can see this extended to the unconscious. If a girl is at a party and makes a poor decision, then I think that the man's position should also be taken into account. An attractive girl coming on to a single man is not likely to get a rejection. Bringing substance abuse issues into this would merely cloud the issue, since the man in question may not have dealt the substance, in fact, most often with drug users, the substance was self administered. If, for instance, I were to go out for a night of drinking, and then drive home and hit a pedestrian, I could not then say to the officer "It wasn't my fault, it was the alcohol that made me do it." I could then try to blame the pedestrian.

In short, I think it's completely fair to say everyone is responsible for their own actions, and if a girl goes to a party, and decides to have sex with someone, then that is not rape.

However, it's also entirely possible for a girl to go to a party, and then have several men drag her to a room and chain her up, and each rape her in turn. This actually happened to a ex-girlfriend of mine once. I was not at the party, no guys were allowed, aside from those running it. This is clearly rape, which was not something she chose to do. She chose to go to a party.

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Sunday, December 28, 2008 4:06 PM

I'm not saying all rapes apply to the scenarios I described; I agree each case needs to be approached on an individual basis. What I'm saying from many of the "rapes" I've been told about the circumstances were absolutely ridiculous, and many of those with merit could have been avoided.

Matter of fact, I was a rapist in the eyes of about 30 to 40 people for a good many years. My current wife, after our initial breakup at 17 years old, was convinced by her psychiatrist that I forced sex on her. That information shared with her family and friends, next thing you know she's "The girl that got raped by her boyfriend". So ingrained was this into their social network that her family begged her, in tears, to reconsider marrying me. I think that's the reason I'm so concerned about the "other" side of the rape issue; the number of falsely accused and their reputations after the fact. Even a suspected rapist acquitted of charges can say goodbye to certain future aspirations.

But to the point I originally made, it goes to more of a responsibility issue. I can see in some circumstances where what happened is unavoidable and not the fault of the victim, and I don't think I ever said otherwise.

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Sunday, December 28, 2008 5:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Oh grow a set you fuckin pansy.

You come in, act all superior, won't do any of the research required to discuss the topic intelligently, get annoyed when someone pushes you into it, and then get all offended and throw a petty little tantrum cause folks took issue with your own truly overwhelming arrogance ?

Welcome to the realities of the internet.

Cry some more.

-F

Why Frem , it seems that you've broadened a bit...

For someone whose posts are allegedly too long to suit the needs of tantrum-throwing judgmental self-righteous knaves , that post of yours was concise , to-the-point , and displayed considerable restraint...

I tip my hat in tribute !

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Monday, December 29, 2008 5:16 AM

Ah, the trolls have found each other. How sweet. Perhaps there can be a gay marriage

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Monday, December 29, 2008 5:44 AM

RIVERLOVE

Sometimes these boards can be frustrating, especially when you take a position against the majority. But mainly I do enjoy the RWED because I get to hear points of view I would normally never even listen to. You cannot help but to occasionally be enlightened here, and that is a good thing. Now, go home & get your shine box!

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Monday, December 29, 2008 7:10 AM

River,

thanks. It's just too goram frustrating having to put up with the trolling and infighting. The being wrong I can handle. It's the a**holes that get me down.

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Monday, December 29, 2008 9:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Ah, the trolls have found each other. How sweet. Perhaps there can be a gay marriage

For someone supposedly schooled in Oriental philosophy , it sure seems that you know nothing about 'saving face'.

You can look it up later...

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Monday, December 29, 2008 10:38 AM

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Monday, December 29, 2008 11:31 AM

COLE23

Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
Sometimes these boards can be frustrating, especially when you take a position against the majority. But mainly I do enjoy the RWED because I get to hear points of view I would normally never even listen to. You cannot help but to occasionally be enlightened here, and that is a good thing. Now, go home & get your shine box!

I'm not jumping into this argument,I just love Goodfellas references.Haha

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Monday, December 29, 2008 11:35 AM

RIVERLOVE

Quote:
Originally posted by Cole23:
Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
Sometimes these boards can be frustrating, especially when you take a position against the majority. But mainly I do enjoy the RWED because I get to hear points of view I would normally never even listen to. You cannot help but to occasionally be enlightened here, and that is a good thing. Now, go home & get your shine box!

I'm not jumping into this argument,I just love Goodfellas references.Haha

What am I here to amuse you?

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Monday, December 29, 2008 11:57 AM

COLE23

That reply....could not have been more perfect.haha.

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Monday, December 29, 2008 11:57 AM

COLE23

oops,double posted.sorry.

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Monday, December 29, 2008 1:21 PM

Ah, my bad, I didn't see it.

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Monday, December 29, 2008 4:38 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Auraptor,

Yeah, I got that, hence the pointed mock-troll comment.

No, not any sort of troll what so ever, mock or otherwise. Just havin' a bit of fun.

Francis, lighten up.

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Monday, December 29, 2008 4:57 PM

That would be the mock troll: Jes' Funnin'

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Monday, December 29, 2008 5:11 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Oh, look. It's a man standing in his undies with a trash can lid!

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Monday, December 29, 2008 5:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:

Oh, look. It's a man standing in his undies with a trash can lid!

Whatever turns you on...

Still , kind of strange . The stuff that excites you...

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Monday, December 29, 2008 5:23 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

O2B... it was a joke, man! That's why the smiley!

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Monday, December 29, 2008 5:33 PM

Quote:
Oh, look. It's a man standing in his undies with a trash can lid!

Rofl

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Monday, December 29, 2008 5:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
O2B... it was a joke, man! That's why the smiley!

Of course .

Same-same .

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Tuesday, December 30, 2008 3:18 AM

Is it a coincidence that someone on this board said the exact same thing about that picture back in 2006? Someone you happened to be taking sides with on an abortion issue.

If you're just saying it to be funny, then no sweat. But if this is some 2 year old grudge, please grow the fuck up.

For my own satisfaction, let me point out the newly received facial scar in that picture. I still bear the remnants of that wound today and I'm fiercely proud of it.

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Tuesday, December 30, 2008 4:37 AM

It looks nasty, where did it come from.

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Wednesday, December 31, 2008 12:01 AM

Fencing, of a particular style that encourages the delivering and receiving of facial wounds.

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Wednesday, December 31, 2008 4:38 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Is it a coincidence that someone on this board said the exact same thing about that picture back in 2006? Someone you happened to be taking sides with on an abortion issue.

If you're just saying it to be funny, then no sweat. But if this is some 2 year old grudge, please grow the fuck up.

It's a coincidence. I just didn't remember anyone posting that comment 2 year ago.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Wednesday, December 31, 2008 4:06 PM

Fair enough. I apologize for the hostility.

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Wednesday, December 31, 2008 4:16 PM