IT ISN'T SAFE -- For THEM by out2theblack

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

IT ISN'T SAFE -- For THEM

POSTED BY: OUT2THEBLACK
UPDATED: Thursday, January 1, 2009 22:38
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Monday, December 29, 2008 9:17 PM

The Russians , that is...

There's a Russkie Prof predicting the USA will get the swirlies , and that we'll swish down into oblivion in 2010...

Hey , that doesn't leave us much time...

Article :

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB123051100709638419-lMyQjAxMDI4Mz
IwOTUyMTkxWj.html

' MOSCOW -- For a decade, Russian academic Igor Panarin has been predicting the U.S. will fall apart in 2010. For most of that time, he admits, few took his argument -- that an economic and moral collapse will trigger a civil war and the eventual breakup of the U.S. -- very seriously. Now he's found an eager audience: Russian state media...

..."There's a 55-45% chance right now that disintegration will occur," he says. "One could rejoice in that process," he adds, poker-faced. "But if we're talking reasonably, it's not the best scenario -- for Russia." Though Russia would become more powerful on the global stage, he says, its economy would suffer because it currently depends heavily on the dollar and on trade with the U.S.

Mr. Panarin posits, in brief, that mass immigration, economic decline, and moral degradation will trigger a civil war next fall and the collapse of the dollar.
Around the end of June 2010, or early July, he says, the U.S. will break into six pieces -- with Alaska reverting to Russian control...

He based the forecast on classified data supplied to him by FAPSI analysts, he says. He predicts that economic, financial and demographic trends will provoke a political and social crisis in the U.S. When the going gets tough, he says, wealthier states will withhold funds from the federal government and effectively secede from the union. Social unrest up to and including a civil war will follow. The U.S. will then split along ethnic lines, and foreign powers will move in.

California will form the nucleus of what he calls "The Californian Republic," and will be part of China or under Chinese influence. Texas will be the heart of "The Texas Republic," a cluster of states that will go to Mexico or fall under Mexican influence. Washington, D.C., and New York will be part of an "Atlantic America" that may join the European Union. Canada will grab a group of Northern states Prof. Panarin calls "The Central North American Republic." Hawaii, he suggests, will be a protectorate of Japan or China, and Alaska will be subsumed into Russia.

"It would be reasonable for Russia to lay claim to Alaska; it was part of the Russian Empire for a long time." A framed satellite image of the Bering Strait that separates Alaska from Russia like a thread hangs from his office wall. "It's not there for no reason," he says with a sly grin.

Interest in his forecast revived this fall when he published an article in Izvestia, one of Russia's biggest national dailies. In it, he reiterated his theory, called U.S. foreign debt "a pyramid scheme," and predicted China and Russia would usurp Washington's role as a global financial regulator.

Americans hope President-elect Barack Obama "can work miracles," he wrote. "But when spring comes, it will be clear that there are no miracles." '

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Tuesday, December 30, 2008 3:04 AM

RIVERLOVE

I think we have a bill of sale or something for Alaska. Lincoln's Secretary Seward purchased the land with some marbles, matchsticks, and cans of Kosher tuna. As for the rest, this gentleman is a known lunatic, and the Russians thought now would be a good time to trot him out from the insane asylum.

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Tuesday, December 30, 2008 3:24 AM

CHRISMOORHEAD

I can only hope and prey on my hands and knees that this comes to pass.

Ride down from Asgard to the battlefield,
Bringer of the valiant dead who died but never yielded,
Carry we who die in battle over land and sea,
Across the rainbow bridge to Valhalla,
Odin's waiting for me.

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Tuesday, December 30, 2008 4:07 AM

HERO

I looked at the guy's map. Alaska reverts to the Russians, Texas falls into Mexico's sphere of influence, Canada dominates the northern states, New England and Virginia happily joining into a new nation...yeah.

If the US broke up it would be along political not regional lines. I doubt there's a scenario that breaks up the US and still keeps red and blue states together.

And it would only be for a while...just long enough for Texas to lead a Red State Army to wipe out the liberals once and for all. Most of the military bases, manufacturing, and energy production are located in the Red States...not to mention domestic firearm ownership. All the Blue States have are screaming hordes of college professors, out of work union members, welfare cheats, and lesbians all led by Ted Kennedy, nothing a couple Southerners with a machine gun can't handle.

H

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Tuesday, December 30, 2008 4:57 AM

DREAMTROVE

I'm with Chrismoorhead on this one.

If China tries to control California it will become a pacific empire of California. China is already under the control of Taiwan, because they took over Taiwan. I read an interesting piece in the People's Daily, an editorial from a Chinese economist begging the govt. not to invade Taiwan. He predicted that the net effect of China, a nation of 1.3 billion, would be taken over by Taiwan, a nation of 23 million, if it should try to turn it into a satellite state. His logic was straightforward, and mathematical. He said that Taiwan, which has been a capitalist nation for 150 years, has a solid understanding of the system, on the level of the Japanese, and already had more commerce than China. It would be a piece of cake for Taiwan, especially if allied with the City State of Hong Kong, with its eight million citizens to economically conquer the entire empire. Now Imagine trying to absorb California?

China will crumble, fragment into different states, Russia will falter, because it's trying the same soviet tactics that failed in the past. I see a future with a lot of independent states. My guess for the new world power will be India.

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Tuesday, December 30, 2008 5:12 AM

DEADLOCKVICTIM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
nothing a couple Southerners with a machine gun can't handle....

you are a sick, sick, sick person....

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Tuesday, December 30, 2008 6:10 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by deadlockvictim:
Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
nothing a couple Southerners with a machine gun can't handle....

you are a sick, sick, sick person....

The machine gun remark left me scratchin my head a bit. Seems Southerners would be more likely to use high powered hunting rifles, and not so much machine guns.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, December 30, 2008 7:22 AM

ELVISCHRIST

Yeah, and Hero ain't anywhere near the South. Pretty much anything north of Oklahoma is a Yankee around these parts.

Course, I'll be one of the very few Southern Liberals who'll be standing right behind the deep-fried dipshit rednecks, happily shootin' 'em in the back. With a machine gun, of course. :)

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Tuesday, December 30, 2008 7:26 AM

ELVISCHRIST

Quote:
China is already under the control of Taiwan, because they took over Taiwan.

I don't think that reads the way you intended it to read. China is nowhere near under the control of Taiwan. China regards Taiwan as its "wayward province" and its sole possession and property - not the other way 'round!

China WILL indeed take over Taiwan, but not until we get further into debt to China, deeper into arrears in our military spending and upkeep, and China decides it can take Taiwan without firing a shot. I said it ten years ago, and it's no less true today. China will own Taiwan once again without war or violence on either side, just as they did with Hong Kong.

EC

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Tuesday, December 30, 2008 7:27 AM

ELVISCHRIST

Quote:
I can only hope and prey on my hands and knees that this comes to pass.

And, um... you really might want to look up "prey". This makes you sound an awful lot like a Baptist Youth Molester - er, I mean MINISTER!

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Tuesday, December 30, 2008 10:39 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

[Kent Brockman voice] I for one WELCOME our new alien overlords! [/Kent Brockman voice]

I couldn't resist.

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Tuesday, December 30, 2008 2:52 PM

DREAMTROVE

EVILCHRIST

Quote:
China will own Taiwan once again

In order to own Taiwan again, they would have had to have owned it at some point during the past. China has occupied Taiwan twice, briefly, during war time. It's ownership of Taiwan is less solid than Germany's ownership of Poland.

But I know a lot of Chinese people, and I read. Taiwan is already taking over the Chinese economy. They own 40% of China last time I checked. The guy was right, it's a disaster for Beijing, they should have left well enough alone. Now what I hear is it will lead to the collapse of the Chinese govt, something which I think we can all salute.

This isn't about military might, it never was. It's about economics.

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Tuesday, December 30, 2008 2:54 PM

DREAMTROVE

EVILCHRIST

Quote:
China will own Taiwan once again

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Tuesday, December 30, 2008 5:07 PM

SHINYGOODGUY

.....and so it begins!

Tawabawho?

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Tuesday, December 30, 2008 5:55 PM

OUT2THEBLACK

I've noted before , I get torrents of economics news in my inbox every day...This came in today :

“What an awful year. And 2009 doesn’t look like it’s going to be any better.”
Our neighbor, Pierre, was describing the state of the agricultural industry in Europe...and, indirectly, why he couldn’t pay the rent. He leases some land from us at a price of about $150 per acre. He’s now far behind on his rent payments. Elizabeth had asked for a meeting to try to collect. Your editor sat off to the side, listening.

“Of course, I’d like to pay,” Pierre explained. “And I’m sorry I’m so far behind. But this is just a terrible time for us. I have to feed the cows. That’s the first priority. I have to feed them...and buy medicines and fertilizers...even though nobody is buying them. The meter turns over pretty fast – even though I’m not going anywhere. I’m not a meat producer. I’m a breeder. We’ve been breeding Limousine cattle here for more than a hundred years. These cows can trace their ancestry better than most people. But when farm prices fall, people stop investing in the quality of their herds.

“Normally, I sell about 20 top breeding bulls per year. This year, I’ve sold 5. There are many people who want to buy, but they don’t have any money. They don’t have any money because they can’t get good prices for their cows...and can’t get credit from the bank. So they don’t buy my bulls...so I can’t pay you.”

“Well, the publishing business is no picnic either,” Elizabeth replied. “Your customers don’t have any money...you don’t have any money...and now I don’t have any money either,” she added with a laugh.

We wondered how many conversations like this were taking place all over the world. The world’s money machine has broken down.
Yesterday, the Dow fell 31 points. Oil rose to $40. The dollar held steady at $1.40 to the euro. Gold rose $4 – giving it a nice gain of about 6% for the year.

Everything else is losing money. This will go down in history as the worst year for investors of all time. Oil, copper, and most financial stocks are down 2/3 from their highs. Stock markets generally are down 40% to 60% all over the world. Housing markets are down in most places too – with prices in Britain and America off about 20%.

Bloomberg reports that holiday sales were so bad it will “force store closings, bankruptcies.”
And USA Today reports that global trade is expected to shrink by 2% in ‘09, after rising at nearly 10% per year for the last decade. Smoot? Hawley? Who needs those knuckleheads? Global trade is collapsing without trade barriers.

Because Americans aren’t buying.
And here, we can trace the breakdown in the entire world money machine...from the pistons that don’t fire to the crankshaft that doesn’t turn. Like the farming business in France, one man doesn’t have any money...so the next man is a little short...and so on all up and down the line.

And here, for the benefit of new readers, we offer a simple schema of the machinery of the Bubble Epoch: Americans bought stuff from the Chinese. The Chinese printed up yuan to buy dollars from Chinese merchants. Then, the nice Chinese financial authorities lent the money back to America. What else could they do with it?

So, you see, everyone had plenty of money. And the more Americans bought...the more money they had to spend. And the more they spent, the more the Chinese had to lend!

Of course, it didn’t take a genius to see that a system that depended on people buying things they didn’t need with money they didn’t really have couldn’t last long. In the event, it lasted longer than we expected. But still, not forever.
It broke down under the strain of its own absurdity.

But wait a minute. How come all of a sudden Americans don’t have any money? Won’t anyone lend any money to them? And why not?
Oh dear reader, throw us a bone!

The financial authorities are clumsily turning screws and tightening valves. They think they can fix the machine by simply getting more credit into consumers’ hands. But this machine is not that simple. In fact, it’s not a machine at all...but a living, organic thing. It has emotions as well as a brain. It is capable of self-delusion, deceit, corruption, wishful thinking, and extravagance.

Investors, businessmen, householders and consumers are all now reacting to the madness of the Bubble Epoch. They lent, spent, speculated and borrowed wildly – as if there were no tomorrow. Now, every day is tomorrow. And they’re afraid. After the sub-prime bubble popped, all the bubble delusions began to fall from their eyes. While once they looked through the glass rosily, now they look darkly:

Wall Street was not making them rich, after all – it was ripping them off! Houses didn’t go up forever – sometimes they went down! Things didn’t get better and better all the time; often, they got worse! Prominent analysts and economists often have no idea what they’re talking about! Alan Greenspan wasn’t such a genius after all!

Suddenly, they looked at their balance sheets and realized that they were in danger. Investors have lost half their money in 2008. Homeowners have lost about $4 trillion in America alone. They read the news. They talk. They know the whole thing is imploding. How are they going to pay their bills? How are they going to keep up their standards of living? How are they going to be able to retire?

Instinctively, reflexively, they cut back their spending. And when the pistons stop pumping, the drive shaft stops spinning, and the wheels stop turning. Americans don’t go to the stores, the stores don’t order more stuff, the ships don’t bring more stuff, the Chinese merchants don’t make money, the Chinese central bank doesn’t have to buy it from them, and then the Chinese have less money to lend back to Americans – who aren’t borrowing in any case.

The machine is busted. It can’t be fixed. "

http://www.dailyreckoning.com/

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Tuesday, December 30, 2008 7:30 PM

OUT2THEBLACK

Got a little note from someone who's been thinkin' the same thoughts I've been having :

"...One of two scenarios make the most sense to me. The first is this (and in no order of importance or chance of happening). Between now and the end of 2010 the government will releases a Pandemic or Nuclear (Nucular ala Bush) event for two reasons. The first to cull the population because as we all know, or should know, there are simply too many of us and secondly so that we literally beg for and ask for Martial Law or some sort of major governmental control. Like, “please, please, we elected you (that’s if you believe elections are real) and you’re supposed to help us!”

The second is that Americans young and old will take to the streets and demonstrate where supposedly non-lethal weapons will be used by the Darth Vader-like police who swore to help each and every one of us and also swore to uphold the Constitution (now less than a piece of paper) and we will be arrested in large masses with few insignificant deaths...

Take your choice but violent revolution is slowly brewing and the heat keeps getting turned up almost daily. I hope you’re ready with stored food goods, fuel, water, flashlights, propane to cook with and all the other myriad of things that will soon become necessities."

Personally , I've been betting on the low-yield , non-conventional 'nooky-lur' device of the 'unclean' variety...

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Tuesday, December 30, 2008 8:00 PM

OUT2THEBLACK

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bal-op.leno29dec29,0,585
7032.story

Yet another sign of the coming Apocalypse :

'On Jay Leno and economic truths

By Rob Long
December 29, 2008

Fifteen years ago, I had a stupid idea.

I was the co-executive producer on TV's long-running comedy Cheers. NBC, the network on which Cheers appeared, was faltering: Ratings were sliding, money was tight, management was nervous and Johnny Carson, legendary host of the Tonight Show, was retiring, and no one knew how his replacement, Jay Leno, would do.

I was 28 then, and like all 28-year-olds, I had no idea exactly how stupid I was. So when I found myself standing next to the president of NBC during the filming of an episode of Cheers, I offered my solution to his network's crisis. "You know what you should do?" I said, brimming with self-assurance. "You should move the Tonight Show with Jay Leno to 10 p.m. Think of all the money you'd save."

"That's a pretty stupid suggestion," he said to me. Only, in those days, network presidents tended to be earthier types with show-business vocabularies, so he inserted a colorful Anglo-Saxon expletive between the words "pretty" and "stupid." He then went on to explain, in a tone of voice used for the very old, the very young and the developmentally disabled, the complicated ecosystem of broadcast television, the maze of clearances and station groups and agreements that rendered such a move not only legally impossible but financially ludicrous. The five hours of prime-time weeknight programming between 10 p.m. and 11 p.m. are immensely lucrative, he explained, and hugely popular with advertisers. Cutting them out would be suicide. "The day we have to do that," he wound up, "is the day we have to shut the whole thing down."

Only he inserted a colorful Anglo-Saxon expletive between the words "whole" and "thing."

This month, the president of NBC announced that the network is moving Jay Leno to 10 p.m. with a show format very similar to the Tonight Show. Which only proves that the difference between a stupid business idea and a brilliant business idea is 15 years and an economic collapse.

When I learned this news, I was on board the merchant vessel Hanjin Miami, a container ship plying the North Pacific trade route, making a bumpy passage between Seattle and Shanghai. I booked a cabin for the three-week crossing because I had some writing to do, and I've discovered that I'm incapable of doing focused, uninterrupted work as long as there's a cell phone to ring, an e-mail to read or the Web to surf. The isolation has been very productive.

But late one night, slipping through the narrow strait between the island of Hokkaido and the main Japanese island of Honshu, the iPhone came to life. The online edition of the Los Angeles Times filled me in on the volatile Dow, on the shaky auto industry bailout, on bad Christmas retail projections. Variety.com brought me news of entertainment industry layoffs, of advertising rate implosions and the Leno shift. Sitting there in my cabin, I muttered darkly to myself, "They might have to shut the whole thing down." And I added the modifier too. I'm a merchant seaman, after all.

I didn't really have to hear bad economic news from Variety.com or latimes.com. The Hanjin Miami is a giant, floating, diesel-powered economic indicator. In fat times, it carries 7,000 containers from China to the West Coast of the United States, each one stuffed with flat screens and polo shirts and iPods and toys and jeans and every kind of extruded plastic doodad imaginable. We snap them up and send the empty containers back to Asia for a refill. Ideally, of course, we're supposed to send full containers back, filled with our stuff for them to buy, but we don't make much stuff anymore. We make complicated financial products and arcane debt instruments. Or did.

But these are lean times. The Pacific trade is slowing down. Demand in the United States is plummeting, which means fewer trips, fewer containers - both full and empty - and no need to burn expensive fuel making a fast crossing. We anchored off the coast of South Korea for five days to save fuel and port charges. No one's waiting for empty containers in China because no one's waiting for full containers in Long Beach. With less stuff to buy in the stores, there's less stuff to advertise on television. And when advertising revenues go down, things go haywire. Anything can happen. Hollywood executives get laid off. Jay Leno moves to 10 p.m.

Rob Long is a contributing editor to the Los Angeles Times.'

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Tuesday, December 30, 2008 8:40 PM

KWICKO

Quote:

The financial authorities are clumsily turning screws and tightening valves. They think they can fix the machine by simply getting more credit into consumers’ hands. But this machine is not that simple. In fact, it’s not a machine at all...but a living, organic thing. It has emotions as well as a brain. It is capable of self-delusion, deceit, corruption, wishful thinking, and extravagance.

Yup indeed. Once you've seen that the Emporer is wearing nothing but his birthday suit, it's kind of hard to NOT see it anymore. We've seen that it was all a sham (and deep down, most of us knew it long before, and were just hoping we were wrong), and now we simply don't trust the systems in place to set things to right. Propping them up led to collapse, so the accepted solution is... to prop them up even more! Where do you suppose that leads?

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Tuesday, December 30, 2008 11:26 PM

OUT2THEBLACK

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

The financial authorities are clumsily turning screws and tightening valves. They think they can fix the machine by simply getting more credit into consumers’ hands. But this machine is not that simple. In fact, it’s not a machine at all...but a living, organic thing. It has emotions as well as a brain. It is capable of self-delusion, deceit, corruption, wishful thinking, and extravagance.

Yup indeed. Once you've seen that the Emporer is wearing nothing but his birthday suit, it's kind of hard to NOT see it anymore. We've seen that it was all a sham (and deep down, most of us knew it long before, and were just hoping we were wrong), and now we simply don't trust the systems in place to set things to right. Propping them up led to collapse, so the accepted solution is... to prop them up even more! Where do you suppose that leads?

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

Ni Hao , Mike...

There is a lot of wisdom in that article...

Where's your quote from ? It seems oddly familiar , somehow...

For Folk flyin' with us , that are inclined toward preparedness , here's a Link to a page with more useful info branched
from there :

http://www.green-trust.org/freebooks/

Lots of good , practical , useful , downloadable info , and the price is certainly right .

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Wednesday, December 31, 2008 2:36 AM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:

Got a little note from someone who's been thinkin' the same thoughts I've been having :

"...One of two scenarios make the most sense to me. The first is this (and in no order of importance or chance of happening). Between now and the end of 2010 the government will releases a Pandemic or Nuclear (Nucular ala Bush) event for two reasons. The first to cull the population because as we all know, or should know, there are simply too many of us and secondly so that we literally beg for and ask for Martial Law or some sort of major governmental control. Like, “please, please, we elected you (that’s if you believe elections are real) and you’re supposed to help us!”

The second is that Americans young and old will take to the streets and demonstrate where supposedly non-lethal weapons will be used by the Darth Vader-like police who swore to help each and every one of us and also swore to uphold the Constitution (now less than a piece of paper) and we will be arrested in large masses with few insignificant deaths...

Take your choice but violent revolution is slowly brewing and the heat keeps getting turned up almost daily. I hope you’re ready with stored food goods, fuel, water, flashlights, propane to cook with and all the other myriad of things that will soon become necessities."

Personally , I've been betting on the low-yield , non-conventional 'nooky-lur' device of the 'unclean' variety...

I whole-heartedly agree.

It's stuff like this that make me wonder why you were so viscerally attacking me. I've been saying basically this for years.

Knowing something about the people involved, I can add two more predictions:

1. Clintonistas are in power, and Clintonistas like invisible genocide and quiet little wars. Not quiet and little where they take place, but ones that don't draw nationwide attention. This means individual events like Waco, and largescale ones like Rwanda, but nothing that makes daily headlines. Nuclear weapons would make headlines, no matter how much the media has its head up the donkey's ass.

2. The NWO wants a Brave New World Order. Back in the days of world wars, they thought that the jackboot police state was the way to go. Now they've changed their mind. They want us to want it. They want us to be stoned, glued to our screens. When this doesn't work, they make fall back on jackboots.

But here are my predictions:

1. Obama's universal healthcare plan will be mandated for children. Now, healthcare is expensive, ridiculously so, and when it is mandated, and there is no control over prices, and a collapsing dollar, it will become more so. This means after the sudden revoking of the right to have children (see the UN charter on genocide for this one) The cost will in crease from a few thousand per child per years probably to 5-10,000 or more. It will go as high as it has to in order to force people back into his new work program.

2. The work program will pacify the people because it will waste all of their time. "Creating Jobs" is seen by the masses as "a good thing" not just a euphemism for "slavery." Just like FDR, the work program will serve to create a new generation of soldiers and military support staff to send off to foreign unreported wars. If he can pull a full FDR, he'll have the people begging for the chance to slave away, throw their money at the govt, and go off to die for the cause.

3. Small insurgent groups of uncooperative americans will be painted as unpatriotic, and a menace to society. The media will daily condemn them as it did the South Hill Community (whose real sin in the eyes of the government was being independent and having children) - and untracked children at that!

4. I agree with my brother's analysis that these small armed resistances will just be exterminated. The mass of people are sheep, and they will fall for the plan, and if they don't, the plan will be redesigned to fall for it. Think of how the drug culture is morphing into a whole population on some sort of psycho-active medication.

The Soma-popping optimists will fill the streets, mindlessly on their way to their jobs to help themselves "pay the bills" and help the govt. in its task to kill their fellow man. What they'd really love is to increase women in combat. This is a Clinton idea that is really taking off. If you kill all the girls right out of high-school, then that really reduces the birth rate.

If it comes to a draft, I think there will be more of a problem with resistance, and the govt. might lose control. I suppose that the best strategy of defense from tyranny is something that will take take some thinking about. If it's not well thought out, and very low profile, I think it is likely to end in the Custer's last stand situation that I described earlier.

I reference back again to the battle of Serenity. They were creamed, and decided to try a different strategy. The one in the movie I think is unrealistic. Joss likes big showdowns where the good guys win, I just believe much more in the battle of Serenity.

It's like, we're mice, in a field of mousetraps, vastly outnumbered by cats, who have computerized laser guided mouse seeking missiles. Hoarding cheese and getting ready to bite the first claw that bats at us is probably not going to work. I think we need something more on the order of "these are not the mice you're looking for."

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Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:42 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Where's your quote from ? It seems oddly familiar , somehow...

You mean the sig? It's from a song, "Tomorrow, Wendy" by Concrete Blonde.

Quote:

It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied.
A one-way street, she's walking to the end of the line.
And there she meets the faces she keeps in her heart and mind.

They say 'good bye' Tomorrow, Wendy, you're going to die.
They say 'good bye' Tomorrow, Wendy, you're going to die.

Underneath the chilly gray November sky
We can make believe that Kennedy is still alive and
We're shooting for the moon and smiling Jackie's driving by and

They say 'good try'
Tomorrow Wendy's going to die.
Tomorrow Wendy's going to die.

I told the priest, don't count on any second coming.
God got his ass kicked the first time he came down here slumming.
He had the balls to come, the gall to die and then forgive us.
No, I don't wonder why, I wonder what he thought it would get us.
Hey, hey, good bye.
Tomorrow Wendy's going to die.

Hey, hey, good bye.
Tomorrow Wendy's going to die.
Tomorrow Wendy's going to die.

Hey, hey, good bye.
Tomorrow Wendy's going to die.
Tomorrow Wendy's going to die.

Only God says jump,
So I set the time
'Cause if he ever saw her
It was through these eyes of mine!
And if he ever suffered it was me who did his crying.

Hey hey, good bye.
Tomorrow Wendy's going to die
(Tomorrow Wendy's going to die)
Tomorrow Wendy's going to die
(Tomorrow Wendy's going to die)
Tomorrow Wendy'd going to die

Hey, hey, good bye
Tomorrow Wendy's going to die

Hey, hey, good bye
Tomorrow Wendy's going to die
Tomorrow Wendy's going to die
Tomorrow Wendys going to die

I've always assumed that the Wendy in the song is Wendy from the Peter Pan stories. We all die, even the Lost Boys...

And something about the poetry and imagery of the line just felt right for me.

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Wednesday, December 31, 2008 4:41 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

THE U.S. CIVIL WAR WILL BEGIN BETWEEN 2009 AND 2012:

Quote:
Celente Predicts Revolution, Food Riots, Tax Rebellions By 2012

The man who predicted the 1987 stock market crash and the fall of the Soviet Union is now forecasting revolution in America, food riots and tax rebellions - all within four years, while cautioning that putting food on the table will be a more pressing concern than buying Christmas gifts by 2012.

Gerald Celente, the CEO of Trends Research Institute, is renowned for his accuracy in predicting future world and economic events, which will send a chill down your spine considering what he told Fox News this week.

Celente says that by 2012 America will become an undeveloped nation, that there will be a revolution marked by food riots, squatter rebellions, tax revolts and job marches, and that holidays will be more about obtaining food, not gifts.

“We’re going to see the end of the retail Christmas….we’re going to see a fundamental shift take place….putting food on the table is going to be more important that putting gifts under the Christmas tree,” said Celente, adding that the situation would be “worse than the great depression”.

“America’s going to go through a transition the likes of which no one is prepared for,” said Celente, noting that people’s refusal to acknowledge that America was even in a recession highlights how big a problem denial is in being ready for the true scale of the crisis.

Celente, who successfully predicted the 1997 Asian Currency Crisis, the subprime mortgage collapse and the massive devaluation of the U.S. dollar, told UPI in November last year that the following year would be known as “The Panic of 2008,” adding that “giants (would) tumble to their deaths,” which is exactly what we have witnessed with the collapse of Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns and others. He also said that the dollar would eventually be devalued by as much as 90 per cent.

The consequence of what we have seen unfold this year would lead to a lowering in living standards, Celente predicted a year ago, which is also being borne out by plummeting retail sales figures.

The prospect of revolution was a concept echoed by a British Ministry of Defence report last year, which predicted that within 30 years, the growing gap between the super rich and the middle class, along with an urban underclass threatening social order would mean, “The world’s middle classes might unite, using access to knowledge, resources and skills to shape transnational processes in their own class interest,” and that, “The middle classes could become a revolutionary class.”

In a separate recent interview, Celente went further on the subject of revolution in America.

“There will be a revolution in this country,” he said. “It’s not going to come yet, but it’s going to come down the line and we’re going to see a third party and this was the catalyst for it: the takeover of Washington, D. C., in broad daylight by Wall Street in this bloodless coup. And it will happen as conditions continue to worsen.”

“The first thing to do is organize with tax revolts. That’s going to be the big one because people can’t afford to pay more school tax, property tax, any kind of tax. You’re going to start seeing those kinds of protests start to develop.”

“It’s going to be very bleak. Very sad. And there is going to be a lot of homeless, the likes of which we have never seen before. Tent cities are already sprouting up around the country and we’re going to see many more.”

“We’re going to start seeing huge areas of vacant real estate and squatters living in them as well. It’s going to be a picture the likes of which Americans are not going to be used to. It’s going to come as a shock and with it, there’s going to be a lot of crime. And the crime is going to be a lot worse than it was before because in the last 1929 Depression, people’s minds weren’t wrecked on all these modern drugs – over-the-counter drugs, or crystal meth or whatever it might be. So, you have a huge underclass of very desperate people with their minds chemically blown beyond anybody’s comprehension.”

The George Washington blog has compiled a list of quotes attesting to Celente’s accuracy as a trend forecaster.

“When CNN wants to know about the Top Trends, we ask Gerald Celente.”
— CNN Headline News

“A network of 25 experts whose range of specialties would rival many university faculties.”
— The Economist

“Gerald Celente has a knack for getting the zeitgeist right.”
— USA Today

“There’s not a better trend forecaster than Gerald Celente. The man knows what he’s talking about.”
- CNBC

“Those who take their predictions seriously … consider the Trends Research Institute.”
— The Wall Street Journal

“Gerald Celente is always ahead of the curve on trends and uncannily on the mark … he’s one of the most accurate forecasters around.”
— The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

“Mr. Celente tracks the world’s social, economic and business trends for corporate clients.”
— The New York Times

“Mr. Celente is a very intelligent guy. We are able to learn about trends from an authority.”
— 48 Hours, CBS News

“Gerald Celente has a solid track record. He has predicted everything from the 1987 stock market crash and the demise of the Soviet Union to green marketing and corporate downsizing.”
— The Detroit News

“Gerald Celente forecast the 1987 stock market crash, ‘green marketing,’ and the boom in gourmet coffees.”
— Chicago Tribune

“The Trends Research Institute is the Standard and Poors of Popular Culture.”
— The Los Angeles Times

“If Nostradamus were alive today, he’d have a hard time keeping up with Gerald Celente.”
— New York Post

www.infowars.com/?p=5938

The 1st US Civil War resulted in the federal govt enslaving all male citizens over 16 years of age, genociding 600,000 US citizens and burning entire cities to the ground.

That's how Commie Obama will get US out of the Depression.
www.americantownmeeting.com/Essays.php?Essay=4

Quote:

Terrorist Hussein Obama murdered 1,000 Christians and burned 800 churches during his Communist presidential campaigns in Kenya. ObamA's terrorist cousin the "prime minster" of Kenya named his son Fidel Castro.
http://piratenews-tv.blogspot.com/2008/10/obamanation-raped-killed-100
0_25.html
http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=78132

Obama is a member of the New Party, formed by members of the Democratic Socialists for America and the Community Party USA
www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=78945

“That is why Marxism represents a further vital and creative stage in the maturing of man's universal vision. Marxism is simultaneously a victory of the external, active man over the inner, passive man and a victory of reason over belief: it stresses man's capacity to shape his material destiny – finite and defined as man's only reality – and it postulates the absolute capacity of man to truly understand his reality as a point of departure for his active endeavors to shape it. To a greater extent than any previous mode of political thinking, Marxism puts a premium on the systematic and rigorous examination of material reality and on guides to action derived from that examination.”
—Zbigniew Kazimierz Brzezinski, Between Two Ages, 1970
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=46081.0

Obama's Jewish Polish advisor Zbigniew Brezinski founded AllCIAduh, hanging out with USAma Bin Laden in Pakistan
http://piratenews-tv.blogspot.com/2008/10/obama-logo-terrorist-logo.ht
ml

"I don't regret setting bombs. I feel we didn't do enough. Kill all the rich people. Break up their cars and apartments. Bring the revolution home, kill your parents, that's where it's really at. Everything was absolutely ideal on the day I bombed the Pentagon.''
-Professor Bill Ayers, FBI/CIA employee and confessed bomber of NYPD HQ, US Capitol, NY Supreme Court, bombed and killed two female bombers in his house, busted CIA LSD mind-control agent Timothy Leary out of prison, confessed to 12 bombings but never prosecuted, author of Barack Hussien Obama Sotoro's authorized biography and grant recipient of Obama's Annenberg Foundation

Bill Ayers, Professor of Education, University of Illinois at Chicago

www.deliberatedumbingdown.com

Obama is a cocaine addict and cocaine dealer, and a homosexual, just like the previous three presidents.
www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=79467
www.nationalenquirer.com/obama_sex_perv_scandal/celebrity/65575
www.rense.com/general81/globe2.htm
www.larrysinclair.org

Fact: Obama is cousin to both Bush and Cheney.
www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/familytree/545460,BSX-News-wotree
a09.article

Hussein Obama Soetoro's granny says Hussein was born in British Kenya, Obama's lawyers admitted that in federal court, federal judge opins that US presidents can be illegal aliens in opinion written by Obamas' employers:
www.americasright.com/2008/11/sarah-obama-tapes.html
www.obamacrimes.com

"You know what happened to the Romans? The last six Roman emperors were fags. Neither in a public way. You know what happened to the popes? They were layin' the nuns; that's been goin' on for years, centuries. But the Catholic Church went to hell three or four centuries ago. It was homosexual, and it had to be cleaned out. That's what's happened to Britain. It happened earlier to France. Let's look at the strong societies. The Russians. Goddamn, they root 'em out. They don't let 'em around at all. The upper class in San Francisco is that way. The Bohemian Grove, which I attend from time to time--it is the most faggy goddamned thing you could ever imagine, with that San Francisco crowd. I can't shake hands with anybody from San Francisco."
-President Richard Nixon, White House audiotapes
www.prisonplanet.com/032604nixontape.html
www.miqel.com/reading_library/archived_stories/nixon-racism-marijuana-
pope-gays.html

"This sucker (USA) is going to go DOWN!"
-President George W Bush, 2008

"The United States will be a 3rd-world nation by 2050."
-Pat Buchanan, Death of the West

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Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:12 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
Yeah, and Hero ain't anywhere near the South. Pretty much anything north of Oklahoma is a Yankee around these parts.

Like most folks living and working in NE Ohio...I'm from West Virginia. Southern West Virginia.

As a baby I gummed biscuits and took sausage gravy in the bottle. Pop gave me my first rifle at 8 and I killed my first rat that very day, my first rabbit that week, and my first car window that month (and had a red ass for the rest of the year...)

I grew up thinking the world was up and down...not flat. By the age of twelve I could tell you what a rock bolt was and why it was important. I've cleaned my own fish, helped skin a deer, made jerky, built a patio, made big assed fire, fallen off a mountain, and back then my cousin was awfully purdy...

I've got a smoker in my yard, love grillin during blizzards, and make my own BBQ sauce (the secret is the bourbon goes in you AND the sauce).

H

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Wednesday, December 31, 2008 6:01 AM

DREAMTROVE

That's 'cause cousin *was* awfully purdy

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Wednesday, December 31, 2008 2:30 PM

OUT2THEBLACK

Odd how Celente says a lot of the same stuff that the Russkie professor says...And , vice-versa...

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Meanwhile :

The Grandfather Economic Report series calculates that America now owes a total debt (including government, household, business, financial sector, etc.) of $53 trillion. That's $175,154 for every man, woman and child in the country, an increase of $33,781 per family of four over last year.

This investment news is brought to you by Money and Markets. Money and Markets is a free daily investment newsletter from Martin D. Weiss and Weiss Research analysts offering the latest investing news and financial insights for the stock market, including tips and advice on investing in gold, energy and oil. Dr. Weiss is a leader in the fields of investing, interest rates, financial safety and economic forecasting.
To view archives or subscribe, visit http://www.moneyandmarkets.com.

Money and Markets (MaM) is published by Weiss Research, Inc. and written by Martin D. Weiss along with Tony Sagami, Nilus Mattive, Sean Brodrick, Larry Edelson, Michael Larson and Jack Crooks. To avoid conflicts of interest, Weiss Research and its staff do not hold positions in companies recommended in MaM, nor do we accept any compensation for such recommendations. The comments, graphs, forecasts, and indices published in MaM are based upon data whose accuracy is deemed reliable but not guaranteed. Performance returns cited are derived from our best estimates but must be considered hypothetical in as much as we do not track the actual prices investors pay or receive. Regular contributors and staff include Kristen Adams, Andrea Baumwald, John Burke, Amber Dakar, Michelle Johncke, Dinesh Kalera, Red Morgan, Maryellen Murphy, Jennifer Newman-Amos, Adam Shafer, Julie Trudeau and Leslie Underwood.

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Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:06 PM

OUT2THEBLACK

Well , there's still the Liberty option , should folk choose it :

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Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:59 PM

DREAMTROVE

o2tb

in the spirit of a new year, forgeting old disputes, we may disagree on this: I don't think the revolution that will win will do so with guns.

But I agree, if Ron Paul would have won, I would have voted for him. I was going to write him in until he told me not to.

The debt will fall on the dollar, through devaluation, and to anyone holding the dollar.

Ron paul himself actually railed against gold during the campaign. He said it's too finite, too easy for some power to monopolize. But we need a new currency, one that doesn't reward theft, and greed.

And we need a new freedom. I say dodge. If they create a regulation, we need to find a way to dodge, if they create a restriction, we need a dodge. We can't stand their and say hell no, because they will come and take us away, one by one, and we can't beat the political machine, because it is rigged. No one can doubt, from the numbers of supporters, or the campaign contributions, or random polling of the man on the street that there was more support for Ron Paul than anyone else, in either party. But the media gave more air time to Rudy Giuliani rating at less than 2% than to Paul, and it did so 10:1.

We need our own media, our own currency, and we need to do it without meeting the power face to face, because they outgun us, but they do not outnumber us.

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Wednesday, December 31, 2008 4:08 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

News from my favorite site:

Will Banks and Financial Markets Recover in 2009? (The short answer is NO.)

Quote:
Global financial markets in 2008 experienced their worst crisis since the Great Depression of the 1930's. Major financial institutions went bust; others were bought up on the cheap or survived only after major bailouts. Global stock markets fell by more than 50%; interest-rate spreads skyrocketed; a severe liquidity and credit crunch appeared; and many emerging-market economies staggered to the International Monetary Fund for help... These factors, combined with sharply falling commodity prices, will cause inflation in advanced economies to ease toward the 1% level, raising concerns about deflation, not stagflation. Deflation is dangerous as it leads to a liquidity trap: nominal policy rates cannot fall below zero, so monetary policy becomes ineffective. Falling prices mean that the real cost of capital is high and the real value of nominal debts rise, leading to further declines in consumption and investment - and thus setting in motion a vicious circle in which incomes and jobs are squeezed further, aggravating the fall in demand and prices.

www.rgemonitor.com/roubini-monitor/254919/latest_project_syndicate_col
umn__will_banks_and_financial_markets_recover_in_2009

Investors close the books on the worst year since the Depression for the blue chips - and the worst year ever for the Nasdaq.
Quote:
For investors, 2008 has been the worst year since the 1930s. The Dow lost 33.8%, the S&P 500 38.5% and the Nasdaq 40.5%
http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/31/markets/markets_newyork/index.htm?cnn=
yes

DT

Quote:
there was more support for Ron Paul than anyone else, in either party

My own personal random polling says otherwise.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Wednesday, December 31, 2008 4:59 PM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:
DT

Quote:
there was more support for Ron Paul than anyone else, in either party

My own personal random polling says otherwise.

I live in the redneck boonies that is still stuck in the 18th century, and not quite sure about some of these crazy 19th century ideas like electricity, cars, and telephones. It's just possible that my random sampling is not the national average.

tonight were gonna party like its 1699

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Wednesday, December 31, 2008 11:14 PM

FREMDFIRMA

I think guns will play a part, but not OUR guns, what we peons have is mere deterrent force, and not bloody much of it, except against each other.

But it's not the weapons, the equipment, that concern me so much as the folk who hand over their brain and morality to become the triggermen - cause without them, without the folks willing to hand over the reins of their life to the powers that be as cannon fodder, they got NOTHING.

Without the cowardly, treasonous milquetoast collaborators to enforce their will, what are they, really ?
Just one more loudmouth in a world chock full of them unless they can get folk to obey them.

Start looking past the machinery, and look at the people, most of whom are where they are simply because they are so easily manipulated, and that is a game more than one can play.

Also, like you say, we need a dodge - but one very useful key to breaking such dominions is simple.

DO NOT COMPLY.

Now, everyone thinks when they hear that of en-masse civil disobediance, but frankly that only works on an administration with something vaguely resembling a conscience, and that is not what we're dealing with here.

Nor are we speaking of fifth columns.

Allow me to introduce the concept of "oops"

Ah yes, good ole "oops" - that subtle, yet critical, just about unprovable mild incompetence that can wreak absolute *havok* on great, grand plans.

Really, there's no better way to trash a movement than to join it - rather than go power to power, become stainless steel rats in the wainscottings of the very machine aimed at us.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Thursday, January 1, 2009 1:29 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
I looked at the guy's map. Alaska reverts to the Russians, Texas falls into Mexico's sphere of influence, Canada dominates the northern states, New England and Virginia happily joining into a new nation...yeah.

If the US broke up it would be along political not regional lines. I doubt there's a scenario that breaks up the US and still keeps red and blue states together.

And it would only be for a while...just long enough for Texas to lead a Red State Army to wipe out the liberals once and for all. Most of the military bases, manufacturing, and energy production are located in the Red States...not to mention domestic firearm ownership. All the Blue States have are screaming hordes of college professors, out of work union members, welfare cheats, and lesbians all led by Ted Kennedy, nothing a couple Southerners with a machine gun can't handle.

H

Political lines? Huh? All the cities would link together to form a union of their choice? There is no state which has a majority of voting wards voting the same way as the cities. Only the concentration of the cities overcomes the voting profile of the majority of the wards.
Once the new nation of cities has to start paying for all their services, and they collapse, they will have collapsed and the country will have righted itself.

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Thursday, January 1, 2009 6:57 AM

OUT2THEBLACK

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
o2tb

in the spirit of a new year, forgeting old disputes, we may disagree on this: I don't think the revolution that will win will do so with guns.

But I agree, if Ron Paul would have won, I would have voted for him. I was going to write him in until he told me not to.

The debt will fall on the dollar, through devaluation, and to anyone holding the dollar.

We need our own media, our own currency, and we need to do it without meeting the power face to face, because they outgun us, but they do not outnumber us.

I'd rather that none of it ever came to guns...
If there are never any weapons at all in play , that would be just fine by me...But , one has to be realistic...If even the people never picked up so much as a pitchfork , TPTB would still seek to employ their notion of 'superior force'...

See , we're not disagreeing on any particular point...

The currency thing is already being worked out , in many places , and there will be more means of exchange in the future , that doesn't involve FedNotes...

Celente notes that local markets and small enterprises with useful services will still work...

The media thing is being worked out , also...

Not a lot of coin is required for startup costs , and if any folk would like to help fund a non-MSM news source , best check out the project at 'restore the republic'...It'll work for a time , maybe even until 'after the pulse'.

I've been asked to join a local under-the-radar news project myself , and I may do it , but there are some details being worked out on that as well...

A fellow with national magazine publishing experience also has indicated a desire to get another print-media newsmagazine project underway , and I'm looking into that possibility too , but with all due diligence...

Thanks to ALL who are contributing to this conversation , keep the thread going , keep the fires burning and the fans a-turning ;
I may be beyond the reach of the signal for just a couple or three days...

See you when I get back...

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Thursday, January 1, 2009 7:05 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
tonight were gonna party like its 1699

Ah yes. Brewing has a long and wonderful history!

BTW- if you want to make it through the coming bad times, and if you think it's REALLY going to get bad might want to look into brewing. Alcohol is always in demand!

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Thursday, January 1, 2009 7:39 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Just so I know...

... after you guys get rid of TPTB and become the New! TPTB, what will be different? Besides more home brew...

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Thursday, January 1, 2009 8:03 AM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:
TPTB would still seek to employ their notion of 'superior force'

Seek is not the same as find. TPTB are pretty simpleminded. They see past guns, but they don't see everything.

Quote:
See , we're not disagreeing on any particular point...

Glad to hear it. Let's make a new years resolution to throw no mud then. Afterall, we won't be much use against TPTB.

Quote:
The currency thing is already being worked out , in many places , and there will be more means of exchange in the future , that doesn't involve FedNotes

True, not to my satisfaction, but as a short term matter. Longer term I think that there needs to be something else. All the solutions I have seen can either be cornered, like gold, or they can be devalued to zero, like stocks bonds and currencies.

If I seem unrealistic, it's usually that I'm looking too far ahead. Ron Paul had a good suggestion in a composite non-limited commodity backed currency, but I'm looking for something more.

Quote:
Celente

Sure. The issue with currency is that TPTB have a lot of capital, and any system that they can change their extant persistant capital into they will be able to take over.

Quote:
The media thing is being worked out , also

Not without effort. The information revolution is going to be a battle to keep the new media out of the hands of the old media, and keep truth alive.

Quote:
non-MSM news source...It'll work for a time, maybe even until 'after the pulse'.

Yes, this is the sort of thing, these are springing up all over the place. The key is to be careful, and be organized. We need to be six steps ahead of our opponents. It's a typical necessity of a good chess game.

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Thursday, January 1, 2009 8:03 AM

DREAMTROVE

Pizmo:

The change will be that Firefly will be renewed for another season.

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Thursday, January 1, 2009 11:47 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Pizmo:

The change will be that Firefly will be renewed for another season.

Hilarious

- thx for the shiny bobble! *bobbles it, goes down a sewer grating*

You civil war dudes see that ABC has a show coming up this Tuesday about Homeland Security Heroes?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081223/ap_en_tv/tv_homeland_security

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Thursday, January 1, 2009 2:36 PM

DREAMTROVE

Lol.
Learn to love your huggable secret police, it's like stormtroopers you can believe in.

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Thursday, January 1, 2009 2:55 PM

OUT2THEBLACK

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
tonight were gonna party like its 1699
Ah yes. Brewing has a long and wonderful history!

BTW- if you want to make it through the coming bad times, and if you think it's REALLY going to get bad might want to look into brewing. Alcohol is always in demand!

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

I'll drink to that !

Been there , dunnit , doing it...

Also into 'alternative' fuels...Useful skill...

In the place of gasoline , it's possible to make do with ethanol :
in the place of conventional diesel , there's biodiesel or even SVO...

Biodiesel is quicker and simpler than the ethanol ,
and somewhat less subject to scrutiny by the reven00-ers...

There was a fellow on a small , self-sufficient
farmstead upstate that had the
capability to produce a
substantial amount of ethanol ,
even had the Fed permits all in order ,
but the local yokels were the ones
trying to stand in the man's way...

Hydrogen power is not far out , either...

I know the case of a Midwestern farmer ,
with a solid 8th-grade education , from when that actually meant something ;
He set up a hydrogen-making facility
on his place...

First he had a windmill pump some water
up into a tank , then he had another
windmill making some electricity , to perform the electrolysis of the water...

He had a separator to gather the hydrogen off the top of the process , and ran a
compressor off some of the
surplus juice from his
windmill/battery source...

So he made a tank for the compressed hydrogen , which he used to heat his home ,
and cook with...Plus , he ran his
Ford pickup on hydrogen .
He'd use a little gasoline
to start the truck , get it warmed up ,
then he'd throw a valve and start
feeding 'er the fusion-gas...

Funny thing is , this guy has never bought electricity in his life...His parents
refused to hook up when the REA came
through ; figured they had never needed electricity before ,
so why buy something they'd never needed ?

He hooked up a meter once he got his system perfected , and the meter runs backward ,
so that the power company
knows how large to make the check
that they have to send him...

I also know of a small-scale farmer in California who created a
methane-generator that runs on
chicken sh!+ , and he gets similar
results on his farmstead , and has been doing this about 40 years now...

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Thursday, January 1, 2009 4:08 PM

OUT2THEBLACK

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:

You civil war dudes see that ABC has a show coming up this Tuesday about Homeland Security Heroes?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081223/ap_en_tv/tv_homeland_security

MSM propaganda from TPTB...

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Thursday, January 1, 2009 4:08 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Be advised, when yer dealing with Alcohol-Gasahol conversion, it's neither as effective, as easy, nor as clean as folks would tell you.

Firstly, you have to use more OF it, which offsets any mileage benefits somewhat.

Second, you have to boost up the compression significantly to get it to go bang, which may or may not be possible on the engine you're dealing with - with many of the older two stroke motors I deal with this involves shaving the head, thinner base and head gaskets, which also requires some port tuning to adjust for the now slightly different timing, and often you'll need to go to a hotter plug heat range as well.

Third, it's not as clean as folks tell you, although you get significantly less pollution in some categories, you do get more in others.

Fourth, your resource cost-effectiveness isn't quite the miracle folks claim it to be neither.

And finally - Alcohol pits the hell out of aluminum and may have adverse effects on a number of materials, we had to go with a pretty heavy oil mix to offset that problem with some of the two-strokes, so be ready for additional maintainence problems to overcome as well.

I mean, it's doable, but it's not the 1-2-3 easy conversion many folks claim it to be, so know what you're getting into before you try it.

Also worthy of note is *WHY* some of the local farmfolk insist those are gasoline vehicles and won't let you near them - because one way the powers that be crush alternate fuel rigs is by coming in and slamming a ruinous amount of "motor fuel tax" on your ENTIRE crop, often retroactively, should they suspect you're not still chained to the pumps like a good little peon, and that is prohibitively expensive for a small land farmer.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Thursday, January 1, 2009 5:42 PM

DREAMTROVE

I know a guy with a small brewery and about to get a PhD in chemistry. If that helps

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Thursday, January 1, 2009 10:38 PM

FREMDFIRMA

DT, in Michigan were pretty cool with the home brewing, you're allowed to brew something up to/over a hundred gallons for "personal consumption" and as long as it's brewed on the premises and beer, wine, cider, mead, etc (no 'hard' liquor) you're allowed to give up to 20 gallons as gift per year long as you don't profit or give it to a minor.

But heaven help you, no matter what, if you so much as dump a single teaspoon of anything in your tank to get the water out after a blizzard, the powers that be will throw a total hissy, nail you to the wall with massive fines and then motor fuel tax on every gallon of everything you've ever brewed in your life even if it was just a bit of slash you culled from fruit sugars.

Seriously, they get *psycho* about it, especially if they suspect you're running Bio-D or SVO, personal consumption only, or not - thus, the seriously paranoid farmers.

Which begs the question of exactly the purpose of that fanaticism, since they seem to be so lackluster in pursuing even the most grevious abuses by the petrol giants.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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