Siding with the bullies by SignyM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

It would be a long list.

But yanno if there is a person in uniform with a Taser, Kevlar vest, gun, baton, and face shield facing a guy in a T-shirt mouthing off, some peeps just gravitate towards tasers. Or money. Or great military hardware.

They just do. It's totally automatic.

It was a flash of insight.

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Let's party like its 1929.

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Thursday, January 8, 2009 4:04 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Sig, what are you speaking to?

I sure as shit don't side with bullies.

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Thursday, January 8, 2009 4:40 PM

FREMDFIRMA

I think it's the cool toys and a percieved respect of displayed authority as automatically legitimate.

Prolly why I don't react that way, cause to an Anarchist no authority over other people is at all legitimate in any way.

That and the first thing I think when I see the cool toys are what their weaknesses are.

-F

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Thursday, January 8, 2009 5:23 PM

DREAMTROVE

Now take your attitude from the perspective of a spider.

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Thursday, January 8, 2009 5:41 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Per SignyM, anyone who doesn't think Hamas is Robin Hood is a bully.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, January 8, 2009 6:07 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Wulf, if you're asking the question you're not part of the problem.

Stay cool, man.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Thursday, January 8, 2009 6:08 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Per SignyM, anyone who doesn't think Hamas is Robin Hood is a bully.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

Fuck you, Geezer. that's the only response you deserve.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Thursday, January 8, 2009 6:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Per SignyM, anyone who doesn't think Hamas is Robin Hood is a bully.

"Keep the Shiny side up"
Fuck you, Geezer. that's the only response you deserve.

Geezer’s right. You and a minority of others apologize for a terrorist faction, then you try to hide it by accusing anyone who doesn’t apologize for Hamas as bullies.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Thursday, January 8, 2009 7:02 PM

KIRKULES

I was having a nice friendly debate with my adult daughter one day, and she started crying like a little girl. I asked her why she was crying and she told me her feelings were just as important as my facts. That was the last time I ever debated with her, because I realised it's pointless. People that ignore facts and base their World view on emotions, don't see reality clearly enough to be taken seriously in a debate. Doesn't mean they're not smart people, just means they have gentle caring hearts. I might be a bully, but at least I don't let my emotions cloud my view of reality, usually anyway.

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Thursday, January 8, 2009 7:22 PM

DREAMTROVE

I have to side with the neanderthal here.

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Thursday, January 8, 2009 7:29 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Fuck you, Geezer. that's the only response you deserve.- Signy

Geezer’s right. You and a minority of others apologize for a terrorist faction, then you try to hide it by accusing anyone who doesn’t apologize for Hamas as bullies.- Finn

Bull.

Shit.

I'm not making excuses for Hamas.

But Israel does what Hamas does AND MORE.

Why do YOU keep making excuses for Israel?

So...fuck you too, Finn.

That's about all you deserve too.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Thursday, January 8, 2009 7:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
Fuck you, Geezer. that's the only response you deserve.- Signy

Geezer’s right. You and a minority of others apologize for a terrorist faction, then you try to hide it by accusing anyone who doesn’t apologize for Hamas as bullies.- Finn
Bull.

Shit.

I'm not making excuses for Hamas.

But Israel does what Hamas does AND MORE.

Why do YOU keep making excuses for Israel?

So...fuck you too, Finn.

That's about all you deserve too.

Geezer’s still right. No matter how many people you fuck.

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Thursday, January 8, 2009 7:50 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Sure, sure.

Whatever.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Thursday, January 8, 2009 10:09 PM

FREMDFIRMA

I said it before, I'll say it again.

Given the situation, Hamas's real problem is that they're not murderous ENOUGH bastards - a problem the other side doesn't suffer from one bit.

-F

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Friday, January 9, 2009 3:37 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:

But Israel does what Hamas does AND MORE.

Why do YOU keep making excuses for Israel?

.

To quote your own damn self....

Bull

and

Shit.

Never has anything been posted here which is as flatly more false than your posted remark.

Israel has been ridiculously patient and reserved in how it deals w/ muslim terrorist. Hamas and the Palestinians are a culture of death.

I can' only guess that it's your colossal ignorance which allows you to think the way you do.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, January 9, 2009 4:00 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Israel has been ridiculously patient and reserved in how it deals w/ muslim terrorist. Hamas and the Palestinians are a culture of death.

As usual Rapo, you're talking in complete defiance of the facts. (BTW, how's that economy going? Great? Oh, good, good. I only bring that up to remind others how incapable you are of seeing an elephant right in front of you.)

Killing civilians?
Check. Israel kills about 10X as many civilians as Hamas.

Quote:
The figures speak for themselves. In the three years after the withdrawal from Gaza, 11 Israelis were killed by rocket fire. On the other hand, in 2005-7 alone, the IDF killed 1,290 Palestinians in Gaza, including 222 children.

/ www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/07/gaza-israel-palestine

Using civilians as shields?
Check. The IDF's standard policy is to use occupied civilians homes as bases.

Economic warfare?
Check. Here, Israel has it all over Hamas. They've managed to turn the entire Gaza strip into a version of the Warsaw ghetto. (You should look up the Warsaw ghetto some day & learn some history.)

I know you sympathize with Israel, and because of that you excuse anything they do: terrorism, torture, civilian killing, segregation, economic warfare. Like I said, some peeps just side with the superior force.

-----------------

You see, BDN? I didn't have to make a list. And, they know who they are.

------------------------

FREM: I think you hit the nail on the head.

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Let's party like its 1929.

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Friday, January 9, 2009 4:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Using civilians as shields?
Check. The IDF's standard policy is to use occupied civilians homes as bases.

I have never heard of any policy standard or otherwise of IDF using occupied civilians homes as bases. Care to back that up?

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Friday, January 9, 2009 4:24 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I have never heard of any policy standard or otherwise of IDF using occupied civilians homes as bases. Care to back that up?

As reported by Amnesty International and ISPS News and linked in the other thread.

Quote:
Amnesty International accused the IDF and Palestinian gunmen Wednesday of using Palestinian civilians as human shields.

"Our sources in Gaza report that Israeli soldiers have entered and taken up positions in a number of Palestinian homes, forcing families to stay in a ground-floor room while they use the rest of their house as a military base and sniper position," said Malcolm Smart, Amnesty International's Middle East and North Africa programme director.

"This clearly increases the risk to the Palestinian families concerned, and means they are effectively being used as human shields," he said. While Palestinian gunmen have also used civilian homes as bases to attack Israeli forces, the IDF has adopted this tactic for many years. It is standard IDF policy throughout the occupied West Bank to use Palestinian homes as bases, while confining families to single bedrooms. Israeli soldiers have been filmed forcing Palestinian youngsters to walk in front of army jeeps or to enter a home they fear is booby-trapped or has gunmen inside, before the soldiers follow afterwards.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Friday, January 9, 2009 4:32 AM

Do you have a link?

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Friday, January 9, 2009 4:47 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Sig,

The more you bitch and whine about the economy now only proves I was right in how well it was doing a year or 2 ago. But keep beating THAT dead horse, as it seems to bring you some sort of pleasure.

The number of civilians killed isn't the issue here. This isn't a fucking game where points are totaled. Hamas TARGETS civilians, and then hides behind their own, while Israel takes great steps to avoid killing innocents. THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE. That Hamas puts women and children in front of their terrorist is a giant fact you seem to over look. Wonder why. There's a video out of muslim terrorist ( hamas ) firing mortars from the courtyard of a boys elementary school, which is all the proof needed to show what sorts of animals Israel is dealing with.

You should learn your current events, and stop trying to tell others to learn history. Gaza was blockaded because Hamas was firing rockets, and not the other way around.

I have no ties w/ Israel. And as an atheist, I have no delusions about the Holy land, the chosen people or any such nonsense. I just see what's right and what's wrong, and clearly, by a far measure, Israel is much more in the right than Hamas. It's not even up for debate, it's so lopsided.

Quote:
Like I said, some peeps just side with the superior force.

You're going to have to accept the fact that sometimes the little guy is wrong, and not always is the big guy the bad guy.

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Friday, January 9, 2009 5:13 AM

I don’t condone the actions of Israelis to put civilians in harm, I’ve never heard of a standard policy to use occupied civilians homes as bases – I’ve heard that the IDF uses unoccupied homes or sometimes, displaces civilians from their homes to a safe house, if they choose to leave, but just using occupied civilians homes without giving the civilians an option to leave to a safe area is not a great thing to do. And if any Israeli soldiers who use civilians to test for booby traps, they should be arrested.

On the other hand Hamas and Hezbollah, not only use civilian homes, but they use Hospitals, schools and other public buildings that are in use by civilians to stage attacks, not as a base of operations, but to stage attacks against Israeli forces. This forces civilian infrastructure to become eminent military targets. The reason why Hamas and Hezbollah do this is obvious. They can accuse Israelis of killing civilians – which uses Israeli firepower against them. Both Hamas and Hezbollah have admitted that they do this and praised unwitting civilians killed by Israeli firepower targeting legitimate Hamas and Hezbollah targets as martyrs.

And ultimately, I know that the Israelis are very concerned with civilian death, if for no other reason, because it doesn’t do them a damn bit of good. Every Palestinian that gets killed will be a loss for Israel and a win for Hamas and/or Hezbollah. This was very evident in the Israeli-Hezbollah war a year or so ago.

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Friday, January 9, 2009 9:07 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
...while Israel takes great steps to avoid killing innocents.

To quote your own stupid self:

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Bull

and

Shit.

I can only guess that it's your colossal ignorance which allows you to think the way you do.

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Friday, January 9, 2009 9:14 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
but they use Hospitals, schools and other public buildings that are in use by civilians to stage attacks, not as a base of operations, but to stage attacks against Israeli forces.

Israel has accused EVERYBODY of doing this: the UN, the Red Crescent, the Red Cross.... They even accused the UN of using ambulances to ferry terrorists with bombs (turned out to be a wounded guy on a gurney). Sheesh! In this latest invasion Israel attacked a UN school full of civilians taking shelter. The UN had provided GPS coordinates to the IDF. The IDF "said" that they saw mortar launches coming from the school... either it was a mistake or an outright lie, but a lot of civvies got killed.

Don't believe everything you read, sonny.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Friday, January 9, 2009 9:37 AM

Sig has a point. What Hamas is going/has done should not be condoned, but there are those here who would view any slight from a Palestinian as justification for nukeing all of Gaza, and would party at the thought.

tThey are the truely disturbing folk.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, January 9, 2009 10:06 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Sig has a point. What Hamas is going/has done should not be condoned, but there are those here who would view any slight from a Palestinian as justification for nukeing all of Gaza, and would party at the thought.

tThey are the truely disturbing folk.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

"Some people just want to watch the world burn."

Of course, they somehow think that they will be magically immune to the flames...

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Friday, January 9, 2009 10:11 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Finn, Geezer, Rapo-

Betcha didn't know THIS:

Israel Rejected Hamas Ceasefire Offer in December
Quote:
WASHINGTON, Jan 9 (IPS) - Contrary to Israel's argument that it was forced to launch its air and ground offensive against Gaza in order to stop the firing of rockets into its territory, Hamas proposed in mid-December to return to the original Hamas-Israel ceasefire arrangement, according to a U.S.-based source who has been briefed on the proposal. The proposal to renew the ceasefire was presented by a high-level Hamas delegation to Egyptian Minister of Intelligence Omar Suleiman at a meeting in Cairo Dec. 14. The delegation, said to have included Moussa Abu Marzouk, the second-ranking official in the Hamas political bureau in Damascus, told Suleiman that Hamas was prepared to stop all rocket attacks against Israel if the Israelis would open up the Gaza border crossings and pledge not to launch attacks in Gaza.

The Hamas officials insisted that Israel not be allowed to close or reduce commercial traffic through border crossings for political purposes, as it had done during the six-month lull according to the source. They asked Suleiman, who had served as mediator between Israel and Hamas in negotiating the original six-month Gaza ceasefire last spring, to "put pressure" on Israel to take that the ceasefire proposal seriously. Suleiman said he could not pressure Israel but could only make the suggestion to Israeli officials. It could not be learned, however, whether Israel explicitly rejected the Hamas proposal or simply refused to respond to Egypt.The readiness of Hamas to return to the ceasefire conditionally in mid-December was confirmed by Dr. Robert Pastor, a professor at American University and senior adviser to the Carter Centre, who met with Khaled Meshal, chairman of the Hamas political bureau in Damascus on Dec. 14, along with former President Jimmy Carter. Pastor told IPS that Meshal indicated Hamas was willing to go back to the ceasefire that had been in effect up to early November "if there was a sign that Israel would lift the siege on Gaza".

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Friday, January 9, 2009 10:28 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Like I said, there's more than enough blame to go around. (And more on Israel's side than Finn, Rapo, and any number of reflexives would credit). If politics was fair Israel should also be branded a terrorist nation. So let's stop with the blame game and discuss what should be done.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Friday, January 9, 2009 10:40 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I would get a MUSCULAR UN peace force together (no more Rwandas allowed) with troops equally balanced between pro-Israelis and those who disapprove (that would be divided between US troops and anyone else).

I would tell Israel to withdraw to the 1967 borders. The settlements ? Well, you shoulda' made sure you had legal title to the land. I would tell Gaza groups to stop shelling. I would open up the borders and make UN troops responsible for border security. I would tell the various groups in Gaza that since the borders were NOW open and would STAY open b/c Israel was no longer in control, there would be NO MORE shelling. Any more shelling, and UN troops would go away, along with UN aid, and they (Gazans) would be left to deal with Israel on their own. I would tell Israel that any more stunts like that, and US foreign aid gets cut in half. And the next time after that, it goes away completely.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, January 9, 2009 10:49 AM

RIVERLOVE

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Like I said, there's more than enough blame to go around. (And more on Israel's side than Finn, Rapo, and any number of reflexives would credit). If politics was fair Israel should also be branded a terrorist nation. So let's stop with the blame game and discuss what should be done.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

You sound like PN, Al Jazeera, and Al Zawahiri. Those your new talking point providers now? I'm stunned and terribly disappointed in you and Rue. You have no credibility any more. Maybe you're just so used to fighting with Auraptor & Geezer that you've lost sight of reality and rightousness in this current situation.

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Friday, January 9, 2009 10:52 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

And you sound like a dick-brain.

And since I don't want to waste my time talking with ingoramuses (ignorami?) I'll give you the response you deserve:

fuck you.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Friday, January 9, 2009 11:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
In this latest invasion Israel attacked a UN school full of civilians taking shelter. The UN had provided GPS coordinates to the IDF. The IDF "said" that they saw mortar launches coming from the school... either it was a mistake or an outright lie, but a lot of civvies got killed.

Right, because it couldn’t possible be true, since Hamas is so warm and fuzzy. You’re right about one thing. I shouldn’t believe everything I read, and I don’t know, including people like you who want to absolve terrorist organizations of complicity to satisfy some strange desire for political balance.

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Friday, January 9, 2009 11:11 AM

RIVERLOVE

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
And you sound like a dick-brain.

And since I don't want to waste my time talking with ingoramuses (ignorami?) I'll give you the response you deserve:

fuck you.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

Well that just proves my point. You don't really even believe the crap you are spewing. Fuck me? No fuck you, you Jew hating terrorist-loving dumb fuck.

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Friday, January 9, 2009 11:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Israel Rejected Hamas Ceasefire Offer in December

WASHINGTON, Jan 9 (IPS) - Contrary to Israel's argument that it was forced to launch its air and ground offensive against Gaza in order to stop the firing of rockets into its territory, Hamas proposed in mid-December to return to the original Hamas-Israel ceasefire arrangement, according to a U.S.-based source who has been briefed on the proposal.

Ah, and Israel didn’t like Hamas’ idea of a ceasefire, huh? You mean after Hamas violated the original ceasefire 5 days into it, and then continued to violate it to the tune of hundreds and hundreds of munitions every single month for the entire duration of the ceasefire, Israel still wasn't willing to accept Hamas' ceasefire? Hmm, strange.

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Friday, January 9, 2009 11:30 AM

RIVERLOVE

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Israel Rejected Hamas Ceasefire Offer in December

WASHINGTON, Jan 9 (IPS) - Contrary to Israel's argument that it was forced to launch its air and ground offensive against Gaza in order to stop the firing of rockets into its territory, Hamas proposed in mid-December to return to the original Hamas-Israel ceasefire arrangement, according to a U.S.-based source who has been briefed on the proposal.
Ah, and Israel didn’t like Hamas’ idea of a ceasefire, huh? You mean after Hamas violated the original ceasefire 5 days into it, and then continued to violate it to the tune of hundreds and hundreds of munitions every single month for the entire duration of the ceasefire, Israel still wasn't willing to accept Hamas' ceasefire? Hmm, strange.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

Yer wasting your time with this Signy piece of shit. His new thing now is to parrot Al Zawahiri and PN in their delusional hatred of Israel, call us stupid, and then say fuck you. I think he's lost his mind, likely as a result of 8 years of Bush Derangement Syndrome. He's got his Bush leaving in 10 days and he's desperate for something new to hate. You Finn, and Auraptor, and Geezer are 100% right about everything you've written on this subject.

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Friday, January 9, 2009 11:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
Yer wasting your time with this Signy piece of shit. His new thing now is to parrot Al Zawahiri and PN in their delusional hatred of Israel, call us stupid, and then say fuck you. I think he's lost his mind, likely as a result of 8 years of Bush Derangement Syndrome. He's got his Bush leaving in 10 days and he's desperate for something new to hate. You Finn, and Auraptor, and Geezer are 100% right about everything you've written on this subject.

Thanks for the support, but Signym isn’t a piece of shit. I can’t condone that kind of language, no matter what language Signym has used. She happens to hold a different point of view then me. I think Signym has confused proportional with fairness. Perhaps she has confused the Palestinians with Hamas – a common error. I don’t know what causes Signym to want to give Hamas so much leniency and Israel so little, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t treat each other with some degree of civility. We’re all still Browncoats.

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Friday, January 9, 2009 11:41 AM

You right-wing hardliners are funny, and uterly predictable in your invective-laden responses.

You should just be honest and start advocating all-out genocide against Arabs, because it's clear than anything less than that is "Jew-hating" to your narrow little minds.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, January 9, 2009 12:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
You should just be honest and start advocating all-out genocide against Arabs, because it's clear than anything less than that is "Jew-hating" to your narrow little minds.

As soon as you’re honest enough to start advocating all-out genocide against Jews.

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Friday, January 9, 2009 12:41 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/war_on_gaza/2009/01/200914102257130
539.html

FOCUS: OPINION
Israel's fait accompli in Gaza
By Eric S. Margolis

There are two completely different versions of what is currently happening in Gaza.

In the Israeli and North American press version, Hamas - 'Islamic terrorists' backed by Iran - have in an unprovoked attack fired deadly rockets on innocent Israel with the intent of destroying the Jewish state.

North American politicians and the media say Israel "has the right to defend itself".

True enough. No Israeli government can tolerate rockets hitting its towns, even though the casualty totals have been less than the car crash fatalities registered during a single holiday weekend on Israel's roads.

The firing of the feeble, home-made al-Qassam rockets by Palestinians is both useless and counter-productive.

It damages their image as an oppressed people and gives right-wing Israeli extremists a perfect reason to launch more attacks on the Arabs and refuse to discuss peace.

Israel's supporters insist it has the absolute right to drop hundreds of tonnes of bombs on 'Hamas targets' inside the 360sq km Gaza Strip to 'take out the terrorists'.

Civilians suffer, says Israel, because the cowardly Hamas hide among them.

Actually, it is more like shooting fish in a barrel.

Omitting facts

As usual, this cartoon-like version of events omits a great deal of nuance and background.

Seventy per cent of Palestinian children suffer from psychological trauma [GALLO/GETTY]
While firing rockets at civilians is a crime so, too, is the Israeli blockade of Gaza, which is an egregious violation of international law and the Geneva Conventions.

According to the UN, most of Gaza's 1.5 million Palestinian refugees subsist near the edge of hunger. Seventy per cent of Palestinian children in Gaza suffer from severe malnutrition and psychological trauma.

Medical facilities are critically short of doctors, personnel, equipment, and drugs. Gaza has quite literally become a human garbage dump for all the Arabs that Israel does not want.

Gaza is one of the world's most-densely populated places, a vast outdoor prison camp filled with desperate people. In the past, they threw stones at their Israeli occupiers; now they launch home-made rockets.

Call it a prison riot, writ large.

Eyeing the elections

When the so-called truce between Tel Aviv and Hamas expired on December 19, Israeli politicians were in the throes of preparing for the February 10 national elections.

Israeli politics are playing a key role in this crisis.

Ehud Barak, the defence minister and leader of the Labour party, and Tzipi Livni, the foreign minister and leader of the Kadima party, are trying to prove themselves tougher than Benjamin Netanyahu's hard-line Likud party - and one another.

Israel's elections are only six weeks away, and Likud was leading until the air raids on Gaza began. Kadima and Labour are now up in the polls.

The heavy attacks on Gaza are also designed to intimidate Israel's Arab neighbours, and make up for Israel's humiliating 2006 defeat in Lebanon, which still haunts the country's politicians and generals.

A fait accompli

When the air raids on Gaza began, Barak said: "We have totally changed the rules of the game."

He was right. By blitzing Hamas-run Gaza, Barak presented the incoming US administration with a fait accompli, and neatly checkmated the newest player in the Middle East Great Game - Barack Obama, the US president-elect - before he could even take a seat at the table.

IN DEPTH

Latest news and analysis from Gaza and Israel

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Watch our coverage of the war on Gaza
The Israeli offensive into Gaza now looks likely to short-circuit any plans Obama might have had to press Israel into withdrawing to its pre-1967 borders and sharing Jerusalem.

This has pleased Israel's supporters in North America who have been cheering the war in Gaza and have been backing away from their earlier tentative support for a land-for-peace deal.

Israel's successes in having Western media portray the Gaza offensive as an 'anti-terrorist operation' will also diminish hopes of peace talks any time soon.

Obama inherits this mess in a few weeks. During the elections, Obama bowed to the Israel lobby, offering a new US carte blanche to Israel and even accepting Israel's permanent monopoly of all of Jerusalem.

As he concludes forming his cabinet, his Middle East team looks like it may be top-heavy with friends of Israel's Labour party.

Obama keeps saying he must remain silent on policy issues until George Bush, the outgoing US president, leaves office, but his staff appear happy to avoid having to make statements about Gaza that would antagonise Israel's American supporters.

Obama will take office facing a Middle East up in arms over Gaza and the entire Muslim world blaming the US for the carnage in Gaza.

Unless he moves swiftly to distance himself from the policies of the Bush administration, he will soon find himself facing the same problems and anger as the Bush White House.

Arab deal killed

Israel's Gaza offensive is also likely to torpedo the current Saudi-sponsored peace plan, which had been backed by all members of the Arab League.

The plan, now likely defunct, had called for Israel to withdraw to its 1967 borders and share Jerusalem in exchange for full recognition and normalised relations with the Muslim world.

Arab governments will now be unable to sell the deal as they face a storm of criticism from their own people over their powerlessness to help the Palestinians of Gaza.

Egypt, in particular, is being widely accused of collaborating with Israel in further sealing off and isolating Gaza. It seems highly unlikely they will be able to advance a peace plan with Israel for now.

This is a bonus for right-wing Israelis, who have always been dead set against any withdrawal and strongly supported the attack on Gaza.

Other Israeli factions who were always lukewarm about the Saudi peace plan are now unlikely to reconsider it.

Israel's security establishment is committed to preventing the creation of a viable Palestinian state, and refuses to negotiate with Hamas. Unable to kill all of Hamas' men, Israel is slowly destroying Gaza's infrastructure around them, as it did to Yasser Arafat's PLO.

Israel's hardliners point to Gaza and claim that any Palestinian state on the West Bank would threaten their nation's security by firing rockets into Israel's heartland.

Mighty information machine

Israel is confident that its mighty information machine will allow it to weather the storm of worldwide outrage over its Biblical punishment of Gaza. Who remembers Israel's flattening of parts of the Palestinian city of Jenin, or the US destruction in Falluja, Iraq, or the Sabra and Shatilla massacres in Beirut?

The US media has focused on the rockets being fired on Israel from Gaza [GALLO/GETTY]
Though the torment of Gaza is seen across the horrified Muslim world as a modern version of the Warsaw Ghetto uprising by Jews against the Nazis during World War Two, Western governments still appear bent on taking no action.

Though Israel's use of American weapons against Gaza violates the US Arms Export Control and Foreign Assistance Acts, the docile US Congress will remain mute.

Israel's assault on Gaza was clearly timed for America's interregnum between administrations and the year-end holidays, a well-used Israeli tactic.

Hamas refuses to recognise Israel as long as Israel refuses to recognise Hamas and the rights of millions of homeless Palestinian refugees.

It calls for a non-religious state to be created in Palestine, meaning an end to Zionism. Ironically, Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, the founder and late leader of Hamas, had spoken of a compromise with Tel Aviv shortly before he was assassinated by Israel in 2004.

An inherited mess

Israel's hopes that it can bomb Gazans into rejecting Hamas are as ill-conceived as its failed attempt in 2006 to blast Lebanon into rejecting Hezbollah.

The Fatah regime on the West Bank installed by the US and Israel after Yasser Arafat's suspicious death will be further discredited, leaving the militants of Hamas as the sole authentic voice of Palestinian nationalism.

Hamas, the militant but still democratically elected government of Gaza, is even less likely to compromise.

The Muslim world is in a rage. But so what? Stalin liked to say "the dogs bark, and the caravan moves on," and as long as the US gives Israel carte blanche, it can do just about anything it wants.

The tragedy of Palestine will thus continue to poison US relations with the Muslim world.

Those Americans who still do not understand why their nation was attacked on 9/11 need only look to Gaza, for which the US is now being blamed as much as Israel.

Unless Israel can make 5 to 7 million Palestinians disappear, it must find some way to co-exist with them. Israeli leaders on the centre and right continue to avoid facing this fact.

The brutal collective punishment inflicted on Gaza will likely strengthen Hamas and reverse any hopes of a Middle East peace in the coming years.

Eric S. Margolis is an author, syndicated foreign affairs columnist, broadcaster, and veteran war correspondent. His latest book is American Raj: America and the Muslim world.

Lets party like its 1939

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Friday, January 9, 2009 12:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
You should just be honest and start advocating all-out genocide against Arabs, because it's clear than anything less than that is "Jew-hating" to your narrow little minds.
As soon as you’re honest enough to start advocating all-out genocide against Jews.

-- Cicero

See, now you show your knee-jerk reactionary colors. I've said nothing anti-Isreal, other than to suggest they're over-doing the response a bit. But you are so steeped in your ideology, that you see anyone who has even a slightly different opinion as an anti-semite jew-hater.

You on the other hand, have been literally saying bomb all the muslims. Screw the civilians, even children, because if they live in the area, they are complicit by default.

Who here is advocating genocide?

Your hipocracy, bigotry, hatred and fear is staggering.

So, in case you missed it - my comment was a trap for nutters like you, and you not just fell, but leapt in with full vigor. Moron.

Luckily, fucks like you have lost power, so maybe there's a chance of salvaging the situation, rather than going with the scortched-raghead approach you've clearly got a hard-on for.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, January 9, 2009 1:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
See, now you show your knee-jerk reactionary colors. I've said nothing anti-Isreal, other than to suggest they're over-doing the response a bit. But you are so steeped in your ideology, that you see anyone who has even a slightly different opinion as an anti-semite jew-hater.

An anti-Semite Jew-hater, huh? That sounds very PirateNews-ish.

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
You on the other hand, have been literally saying bomb all the muslims. Screw the civilians, even children, because if they live in the area, they are complicit by default.

I don’t remember saying that, literally or otherwise. Why don’t you show me where I said that? Or perhaps you’re a liar, who is so steeped in his own ideology he has to hate people with even a slighitly different opinion.

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Your hipocracy, bigotry, hatred and fear is staggering.

So, in case you missed it - my comment was a trap for nutters like you, and you not just fell, but leapt in with full vigor. Moron.

Luckily, fucks like you have lost power, so maybe there's a chance of salvaging the situation, rather than going with the scortched-raghead approach you've clearly got a hard-on for.

I guess the appropriate response would be : You right-wing hardliners are funny, and uterly(sic) predictable in your invective-laden responses.

Your hipocracy(sic), bigotry, hatred and fear is staggering.

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Friday, January 9, 2009 2:17 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"Right, because it couldn’t possible be true, since Hamas is so warm and fuzzy."

The UN said there were no combatants or mortar equipment at or in the school. Now, who would you rather believe - the Israelis who've been repeatedly caught lying, or the UN ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, January 9, 2009 2:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"Right, because it couldn’t possible be true, since Hamas is so warm and fuzzy."

The UN said there were no combatants or mortar equipment at or in the school. Now, who would you rather believe - the Israelis who've been repeatedly caught lying, or the UN ?

When were the Israeli’s caught lying again? And where did the UN say there were no combatants or mortar equipment at or in the school? And how would the UN know this? Do you really expect that Hamas or your “extremist” will be standing out from the crowd? And mortars are often portable.

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Friday, January 9, 2009 2:20 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"I don’t know what causes Signym to want to give Hamas so much leniency and Israel so little ..."

It's the same impulse that causes people to look askance when someone shoots an unarmed person. It's the sheer discrepancy of military resources between the two.

I know SignyM brought that up more than once. Well, at least I now know that there are many people whose posts you just don't read before you 'respond' to the voices in your head.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, January 9, 2009 2:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
It's the same impulse that causes people to look askance when someone shoots an unarmed person. It's the sheer discrepancy of military resources between the two.

Well, I suspected that Sigynm's opinion is emotional, and not rational. So the solution is to let Hamas bomb Israel continuously? At what point is it emotionally acceptable for Israel to defend itself from foreign attack?

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Friday, January 9, 2009 2:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
You right-wing hardliners are funny, and uterly(sic) predictable in your invective-laden responses.

Your hipocracy(sic), bigotry, hatred and fear is staggering.

-- Cicero

Heh.

I'm glad we see eye to eye.

(In case ol' Finny goes back and edits, I did quote his freudian slip accurately)

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, January 9, 2009 2:33 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"At what point is it emotionally acceptable for Israel to defend itself from foreign attack?"

When they stop blockading a foreign country and give back the land they took ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, January 9, 2009 2:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Heh.

I'm glad we see eye to eye.

(In case ol' Finny goes back and edits, I did quote his freudian slip accurately)."

Now that really was a trap. It seems you’re perfectly okay with uterly(sic) predictable invective-laden responses, after all.

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Friday, January 9, 2009 2:39 PM