Siding with the bullies by SignyM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Finn

So Hamas WAS elected as the government, and did have a right to form a government on their own --- right ?

Which makes them what again ?

(Answer: The legitimate government of Gaza.)

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Saturday, January 10, 2009 7:46 AM

It's almost pathetic innit ?

The mindset that those folks are up against, even as someone with no stake in it beyond not wanting my tax dime to finance it, I have to struggle to not despise the entire State of Israel and all who support it, especially the folks on this board who's blatant racism, intolerance and bigotry shines through like the true guiding light of what this shit is *really* about...

With that in mind, can you just for a moment imagine how the folks feel on the direct recieving end of the Izzies bombs, bulldozers and off-handedly supported "settlers" ?

You ain't gonna fix that till someone with the power and will to do so kicks the damn Izzies back over the border unto land which folks are willing to concede to be quit of the bastards, and frankly, ain't no one steppin up to that plate any time soon, so what would you have them do ?

My opinion is that instead of bombing joe average peon they need to get smart about it, they get shelled, find the officer who gave the order to fire and slit his damn throat, pin a nice message to his chest and throw the body out the window during rush hour - find out who gave the order for that blockade, do the same...

This tit for tat and taking a hundred casualties for every one you inflict is pure madness, if your cause is so desperate you must resort to terrorism, then you go all the way with it and you do it effectively - scaring the peons does nothing, scaring the LEADERS shitless will bring them to the negotiating table posthaste.

If some other country subjugated America that way, do you really think we wouldn't do worse ?

Anyhow, it's easy to give such orders when you are so far removed from the consequences, just look at Iraq and what we ourselves did to them - but when the very REAL and substantial possibility of having *your* throat cut for giving those kind of orders rears it's head, suddenly it's not so fun anymore, is it now ?

And that is in my considered opinion, the only remaining option the Palestinians have since the rest of the world is too busy sucking up to the folks stomping on them.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Saturday, January 10, 2009 7:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Finn

So Hamas WAS elected as the government, and did have a right to form a government on their own --- right ?

No.

But I’m impressed with how desperate you’re maintaining, not only the ignorance, but also the loyalty to Hamas. Meshaal would be proud, right after he slit your throat.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Saturday, January 10, 2009 7:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
It's almost pathetic innit ?

The mindset that those folks are up against, even as someone with no stake in it beyond not wanting my tax dime to finance it, I have to struggle to not despise the entire State of Israel and all who support it, especially the folks on this board who's blatant racism, intolerance and bigotry shines through like the true guiding light of what this shit is *really* about...

You’ve never struggled to not despise anything. Despising is what you do best.

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Saturday, January 10, 2009 7:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
I have to struggle to not despise the entire State of Israel and all who support it

Thank you Mullah Omar. Now, eyes back on the road. You don't want to wreck your cab again.

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Saturday, January 10, 2009 8:02 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Finn

Hamas WASN'T elected as the majority government in a parliamentary system ? REALLY ? Is this what you now claim ?

(And, 1) how does recognition of simple fact make me a Hamas loyalist ? Also, 2) are your facts and logic so deficient that you have nothing to argue except ad hominem attacks and straw-man arguments ?)

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Saturday, January 10, 2009 8:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Finn

Hamas WASN'T elected as the majority government in a parliamentary system ? REALLY ? Is this what you now claim ?

Very dishonest, rue. Let’s look at what you actually said:

Rue asked:
“So Hamas WAS elected as the government, and did have a right to form a government on their own --- right ?”

The correct answer to this is NO. Because Hamas did NOT have a right to form a government on their own. I wonder if rue believe that the Republicans have a right to declare themselves sole rulers of the US? After answering correctly – rue then responds with:

“Hamas WASN'T elected as the majority government in a parliamentary system ? REALLY ? Is this what you now claim ?”

So is that what I actually claim? Let’s take a look at something I said earlier, which rue ignored.

“Rue read something about the Middle East for once in your life, will you? Hamas is not a democratically elected government. Hamas was elected to a certain number of seats in the Palestinian Parliament; afterwards they declared themselves to sole rulers of the Palestinian Territories. There was a civil war, because not surprisingly the other democratically elected members of Parliament didn’t share Hamas’ view of “democracy” as Hamas in total control. Hamas conquered Fatah in Gaza Strip and then consolidated power. What is democratic about that?”

Note that my point has been very clear from the start. Hamas was elected to a certain number of seats in the Palestinian Parliament. Hamas was not elected to be totalitarian ruler of the Gaza Strip. This is not information that is hard to find. It’s interesting the way Rue is so desperate to ignore that point. It’s also interesting that Signym likes to portray herself as the harbinger of truth, yet her little buddy rue is waste-deep in dishonesty, and she has nothing to say to rue.

Maybe rue is dishonest. Maybe rue is stupid. Maybe rue is ideologically in bed with Hamas. Perhaps rue can explain why she is so desperate to apologize for Hamas.

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Saturday, January 10, 2009 8:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
It's almost pathetic innit ?

The mindset that those folks are up against, even as someone with no stake in it beyond not wanting my tax dime to finance it, I have to struggle to not despise the entire State of Israel and all who support it, especially the folks on this board who's blatant racism, intolerance and bigotry shines through like the true guiding light of what this shit is *really* about...

You’ve never struggled to not despise anything. Despising is what you do best.

The pure truth of that and the special wonderful way it was delivered gives me goosebumps. Alas, not as ecstatically electric as the chill that went up Chris Mathew's leg when he met Obama, but pretty damn close. Thanks!

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Saturday, January 10, 2009 9:32 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Looking back more than a two or three generations doesn't work.

Why not?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Saturday, January 10, 2009 9:45 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
This tit for tat and taking a hundred casualties for every one you inflict is pure madness...

Or good theater, if you (Hamas) are just as happy the people you're supposed to be protecting die in their hundreds, so you can show pictures of their bodies to solicit funds and fighters.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Saturday, January 10, 2009 9:58 AM

You folk result to insults only because you have no effective method to dispute, or even debate, the things I say - simply due to the fact that in your precious little plastic bubble of self imposed ignorance the other pieces of the puzzle to put those concepts together with simply do not exist.

And then in your own abject stupidity, allow me to bait you into showing your true vile natures with but a single post that in fact shows a better, cleaner way to wage such an engagement without loss of innocent life, something you folk claimed to care about - but the plain fact of the matter is that your petty hatred for people you've never even met is based in religious, racial and social intolerance of a type so despicable there's simply no rational excuse for it.

No, I don't despise you, but you do disgust me, and all in all I find you pitiable creatures to assign less value to another humans life simply because they do not believe as you do, which by my own standards of lookin at such things, means you deserve no value assigned to yours at all - being that I feel someone clamoring to have life, liberty or happiness torn from others should be the first to suffer it.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Saturday, January 10, 2009 10:02 AM

Well, Geezer..

That presumes that one needs much in the way of funds and fighters, which, if they're gonna be stupid about it, I guess they do.

There's an old hashishin saying about the shortest route to target though...

Six well trained guys is all it would take, if none of them cared whether they came back or not.

Hell, even if they went with the old backpack bomb, what's the point of blowing a cafe fulla nobodies when they can bumrush a barracks as it's changing guard, or a legislative session as it lets out ?

I never ever understood that any more than why rioters burn down the grocery store instead of city hall - if yer gonna do it, do it right.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Saturday, January 10, 2009 10:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
And then in your own abject stupidity, allow me to bait you into showing your true vile natures with but a single post that in fact shows a better, cleaner way to wage such an engagement without loss of innocent life, something you folk claimed to care about - but the plain fact of the matter is that your petty hatred for people you've never even met is based in religious, racial and social intolerance of a type so despicable there's simply no rational excuse for it.

Says the person who supports the use of terrorism by Hamas.

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Saturday, January 10, 2009 11:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
I never ever understood that any more than why rioters burn down the grocery store instead of city hall - if yer gonna do it, do it right.

I guess Bill Ayers is a hero to you, right? How about Timothy McVeigh? Did he blow up enough shit for you? Kill enough Americans? Please go out one day and live up to your psychotic and pathetic fantasies and actually blow something up or burn something down. Okay? Please, please! C'mon already, I dare ya. And as you say, do it right man. It'd be worth it to maybe have your sorry ass locked up in prison. I'll read the Unibomber Manifesto a few times if that'll help motivate you to get up off your whiny ass and do something notably destructive. Kaczinski's one of your heroes too, right? Maybe I could see you and hear your story one day soon on MSNBC Lock Up telling about your prowess in the shower and quiet corners of the machine shop. Your friends are waiting for you, and they don't like America's systems any more than you do. Power to the people!

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Saturday, January 10, 2009 1:18 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Finn

"... my point has been very clear from the start. Hamas was elected to a certain number of seats in the Palestinian Parliament."

And in a parliamentary system, when you get an ABSOLUTE MAJORITY of seats, YOU GET TO FORM THE GOVERNMENT ON YOUR OWN. YOU ARE THE GOVERNMENT.

I put most of that in caps and made it short so you would be sure to read it, and go all the way to the end.

Hamas is, by law, the fairly and democratically elected government of Gaza.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Saturday, January 10, 2009 1:30 PM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

I miss AnthonyT's cool, humanist logic.

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Saturday, January 10, 2009 1:51 PM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Well, Geezer..

That presumes that one needs much in the way of funds and fighters, which, if they're gonna be stupid about it, I guess they do.

There's an old hashishin saying about the shortest route to target though...

Six well trained guys is all it would take, if none of them cared whether they came back or not.

You seem to think that the Hamas leadership actually wants to WIN Palestinian freedom. I doubt it, as that would take away their meal-ticket. Note that the higher-ups don't hang out in Gaza where they might accidentally get hurt, but in comfort in Syria. Not to say that the current Israeli government would want to definitively beat Hamas or Hezbolla and lose their excuse for being in power.

I do note that there are peace factions among both Palestinians and Israelis. Maybe those should be getting our interest and support, rather than hoping one side kills the other.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Saturday, January 10, 2009 1:55 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Rue:
Looking back more than a two or three generations doesn't work.
Geezer:
Why not?

Because if going back to the past legitimizes a claim, then going back even further makes another claim even MORE legitimate. And where do you end it ?

PS Geezer, if you think going back in the past is a good idea to determine who gets to claim what, I suppose you support white reparations for black slavery ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Saturday, January 10, 2009 2:01 PM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Hamas is, by law, the fairly and democratically elected government of Gaza.

The Battle of Gaza

"After the re-ignition of the Fatah-Hamas conflict on June 10, Hamas militants seized several Fatah members and threw one of them, Mohammed Sweirki, an officer in the elite Palestinian Presidential Guard, off the top of the tallest building in Gaza, a 15-story apartment building. In retaliation, Fatah militants attacked and killed the imam of the city's Great Mosque, Mohammed al-Rifati. They also opened fire on the home of Prime Minister Ismail Haniya. Just before midnight, a Hamas militant was thrown off a 12-story building.[9]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_for_Gaza_(2007)

Perhaps you confuse democratization with defenestration?

Hamas took control of Gaza at the point of a gun, removing any Fatah political opposition by violence. If the Republicans chased the Democrats out of Congress with M-16s and chucked a few off the Washington Monument(or vice versa), would that be democracy?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Saturday, January 10, 2009 2:25 PM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Because if going back to the past legitimizes a claim, then going back even further makes another claim even MORE legitimate. And where do you end it ?

So who has the best claim; the most recent holder of the land, the descendents of the first holders of the land (as well as can be established, and if they're still around), the people who held it 20 or 40 or 60 or 200 or 500 years ago?

Right or wrong, 60 years ago the folks who had the power gave (most of) the land that's now Israel as a homeland for the Jews, ignoring the fact that other folk already lived there. The folks who did it are all dead by now and beyond punishment. Whether it was a mistake or not you got three generations of Israeli Jews living there. You also got generations of Palestinians.

If the governments of the surrounding countries had left well enough alone in 1948, the Jews and Palestinians would by now probably be buddies and have a wonderful country. But, I'd guess for political purposes, the surrounding countries had to start their jihad against Israel and replay it every generation, making the Palestinians the cause and creating the divide between Israeli Jew and Israeli Palestinian - each of these groups becoming "The Other" to the other. Subsequent Israeli and Palestinian governments have used this divide to stay in power.

It's gonna take a great effort of will among the Palestinian and Israeli (B'Tselem, Peace Now) people to overcome 60 years of their respective governments pounding hate into their heads. There are some groups on both sides who are trying to develop a dialog. Maybe you should be supporting them instead of the folk who want their people to think the only good ___ is a dead ___.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Saturday, January 10, 2009 2:30 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

You see, some people like me actually paid attention and remember what went on.

After Hamas won at the ballot box, Abbas took control of the government buildings and refused to come out, surrounding himself with his army buddies (in another country it would be called a junta) and called himself the leader - with US support. That sparked a struggle by Hamas to gain physical control of the government they were voted in to run. Oh, btw, after they did gain control of the buildings, the buildings from which they ran food and aid kitchens, schools, built roads, collected trash etc were bombed by Israel.

Finn, Geezer --- what do you have against democracy, again ?

"Since then, power has been divided between Mahmud Abbas (Abu Mazin), the PA's leader and self-styled president, and a Hamas-dominated parliament and cabinet. Abbas has unilaterally given himself control over borders, the media, and some security agencies. Hamas is fuming but cannot do much about this power grab. To make matters worse for Hamas, the 60,000-member PA bureaucracy, including security forces, is dominated by Fatah members."

"Tensions between Fatah and Hamas began to rise in 2005 after the death of the charismatic leader Yasser Arafat. After Hamas’s parliamentary election victory in January 2006, relations were marked by sporadic factional fighting and several assassinations of both Hamas and Fatah leaders. The conflict grew more intense after the two parties repeatedly failed to reach a deal to share government power, escalating in June 2007 into an outright civil war. As of August 2007, the Palestinian Territories are split into a Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip and a Fatah-dominated West Bank. ... After 40 years as the ruling Palestinian party, Fatah lost its majority to Hamas in the 2006 parliamentary elections, winning just 43 out of 132 seats.

... In addition to its militancy, Hamas oversees an extensive network of social services in the Palestinian Territories, funding education, healthcare, soup kitchens, and mosques. ... Few expected the overwhelming election victory of the following year: in January 2006 it secured 76 out of 132 seats in the Parliament. This not only pushed the increasingly unpopular Fatah party into second place, but also triggered a crippling Western economic boycott. The United States and the European Union withdrew over $1 billion in foreign aid when Hamas refused to renounce violence and recognize Israel’s right to exist."

"

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Saturday, January 10, 2009 3:00 PM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"Since then, power has been divided between Mahmud Abbas (Abu Mazin), the PA's leader and self-styled president, and a Hamas-dominated parliament and cabinet...

As always, a cite for this quote would be appreciated, so we know you didn't make it up and that it's actually from a reputable source.

Rue, you might as well just start providing links on a regular basis, 'cause I'm just gonna keep asking for them.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Saturday, January 10, 2009 3:47 PM

Careful Finn, your sock puppet's lookin a little threadbare.

-F

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Saturday, January 10, 2009 6:10 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

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Saturday, January 10, 2009 7:37 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
BTW- Riverlove, since you're a Ft Lauderdale Jew, I understand you bias. But it IS a bias.-SignyM

Wrong on both counts you Nazi idiot. -Riverlove

And so were you, when you said:

Quote:
support for evil is appalling, and all sane people can see now that you now lie in filth in the gutter next to PN and the rest of the team that supports your insane positions; positions that cheerlead for Al Qaeda, Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah, Skinheads, Traditional European Anti-Semitism & Nazism, etc.all determined to destroy Israel. You are on the team of savages, enemies of civilization, enslavers of women, and barbaric enforcers of dogmatic vileness. You make me sick. Why don't you go down to Ft Lauderdale and stand proudly next to the gal screaming out the other day to throw Jews back into the oven. She's on your team. She see the world like you do. Like the forces you support and sympathize with you are psychotic, and morally and ethically bankrupt.

DON'T LIKE IT WHEN IT COMES BACK AT YOU, DO YOU, YOU ZIONIST BITCH?

Please, don't come whining at me about how horrible I am for calling you names, you drunken, death-loving cunt. You and people like you are the real genocidal maniacs, all the while screaming about how "unfair" everyone is while you mow people down with bombs and machine guns. I hope you die in your own drunken vomit. TRY in the future to act like you had at least two neurons to rub together, you inadequate husk of a human being.

Oh, and BTW?

Fuck you.

PS- You're SO easy.

You should have seen that coming.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Saturday, January 10, 2009 7:51 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
If the Republicans chased the Democrats out of Congress with M-16s and chucked a few off the Washington Monument(or vice versa), would that be democracy?

If Republicans had won by a fair election and Democrats seized control of Congress... I would call that an attempted coup.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Saturday, January 10, 2009 9:10 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Balanced position? You want Israel to engage in a tit for tat with Hamas? How about this, every time a bomb is lobbed into Israel, the Israelis should lob a bomb into Gaza? Do you think the bloodshed would be any less disproportionate?

Yes.

Quote:
Maybe a little.

So, basically, you don't care about killing more Palestinians than necessary. But weren't YOU the one who agreed that killing is only acceptable if it causes fewer deaths than not?

Quote:
That’s proportionate warfare and its bullshit.

Why?

Quote:
It's just violence for violence sake

It is? Maybe if the Palestinians realized that Israel was only engaged in proportionate response they would realize that Israel was interested in justice, not a land-grab.

Quote:
Israel’s not going to agree to that, because all that does is hand Hamas a victory.

really?

Finn, do have a CLUE as to what you're talking about? Or are you just repeating what someone else said?

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Saturday, January 10, 2009 10:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Finn

"... my point has been very clear from the start. Hamas was elected to a certain number of seats in the Palestinian Parliament."

And in a parliamentary system, when you get an ABSOLUTE MAJORITY of seats, YOU GET TO FORM THE GOVERNMENT ON YOUR OWN. YOU ARE THE GOVERNMENT.

Why don’t you explain that to the Palestinian Parliament? I’m sure they would love to know that you consider a non-democratic totalitarian government the legitimate government of the Palestinian territories. Next you can explain it to the Palestinian people forced to live under this monstrous regime. In any event, it doesn't change the fact that nothing will but war will happen so long as Hamas is in charge of the Gaza Strip.

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Saturday, January 10, 2009 10:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
That’s proportionate warfare and its bullshit.
Why?

Because it’s killing for the sake of killing.

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
It is? Maybe if the Palestinians realized that Israel was only engaged in proportionate response they would realize that Israel was interested in justice, not a land-grab.

A land-grab? Of land Israel gave up? Try again. How is killing for the sake of killing justice again? So you agree with Eye for an Eye justice? So you're good with capital punishment.

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:

Quote:
Israel’s not going to agree to that, because all that does is hand Hamas a victory.
really?

Yes. Hamas wins if Palestinians are killed for no reason. Israel only wins if they destroy Hamas.

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Finn, do have a CLUE as to what you're talking about?

A hell of a lot more then you do, that much is certain.

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Saturday, January 10, 2009 10:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
If the Republicans chased the Democrats out of Congress with M-16s and chucked a few off the Washington Monument(or vice versa), would that be democracy?
If Republicans had won by a fair election and Democrats seized control of Congress... I would call that an attempted coup.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

But you'd be okay with the Republicans seizing Congress, right?

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Saturday, January 10, 2009 11:46 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Finn, I have no idea what you;re talking about AFA Repubs and Dems.

In terms of proportionality... one of the problems of game theory is that both sides have to be playing the same game. If that doesn't seem to be the case, one side can roll the dice by playing a DIFFERENT game.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Sunday, January 11, 2009 2:29 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
But you'd be okay with the Republicans seizing Congress, right?

They could call it a "permanent majority"...

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Sunday, January 11, 2009 3:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
BTW- Riverlove, since you're a Ft Lauderdale Jew, I understand you bias. But it IS a bias.-SignyM

Wrong on both counts you Nazi idiot. -Riverlove
And so were you, when you said:
Quote:
support for evil is appalling, and all sane people can see now that you now lie in filth in the gutter next to PN and the rest of the team that supports your insane positions; positions that cheerlead for Al Qaeda, Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah, Skinheads, Traditional European Anti-Semitism & Nazism, etc.all determined to destroy Israel. You are on the team of savages, enemies of civilization, enslavers of women, and barbaric enforcers of dogmatic vileness. You make me sick. Why don't you go down to Ft Lauderdale and stand proudly next to the gal screaming out the other day to throw Jews back into the oven. She's on your team. She see the world like you do. Like the forces you support and sympathize with you are psychotic, and morally and ethically bankrupt.
DON'T LIKE IT WHEN IT COMES BACK AT YOU, DO YOU, YOU ZIONIST BITCH?

Please, don't come whining at me about how horrible I am for calling you names, you drunken, death-loving cunt. You and people like you are the real genocidal maniacs, all the while screaming about how "unfair" everyone is while you mow people down with bombs and machine guns. I hope you die in your own drunken vomit. TRY in the future to act like you had at least two neurons to rub together, you inadequate husk of a human being.

Oh, and BTW?

Fuck you.

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA...I'm laughing right in your little potty-mouthed ugly face, because I have unveiled you to the universe here, destroyed your lame attempts at covering your anti-Semitism. Seig Heil you Nazi twat. Now I'm calling your mommy to wash out your disgusting mouth with some lye soap. I never realized how sick you are. You need professional help, soon. Until you get some, I'm going to follow your posts around and make sure you don't spread your vulgarity and stupidity around.

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Sunday, January 11, 2009 3:25 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
If Republicans had won by a fair election and Democrats seized control of Congress... I would call that an attempted coup.

And if the Republicans defeated the coup, it would be all right for them to kill or chase out of the country all the Democrats, involved or not; prevent any political opposition parties from forming; deny political representation to anyone who hadn't voted for them; and not schedule any elections.

This is what Hamas has done in Gaza since the 2007 civil war. Is this your concept of a democratic government?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Sunday, January 11, 2009 3:57 AM