Since Obama was selected President, the market's done what ? by AURaptor

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

So c'mon Rappy, come up with ONE example where "the government" forced a bank to make a bad loan.

One single, real example.

I dare ya.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Tuesday, November 25, 2008 8:36 AM

RIVERLOVE

They didn't have to "force" anything.

They WANTED to make the loans! They didn't give a crap about nothing, knowing they could bundle the toxic loans up and sell it to Fannie or somebody else. No one forced greed and fraud on anybody. They all got intoxicated from the smell of their bonuses and raises.

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Tuesday, November 25, 2008 8:38 AM

But in Rappy land, Obama was personally standing there, with a gun to their heads, forcing them to make bad loans, while they protested the whole time.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, November 25, 2008 9:27 AM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

In 'Rappy World, ACORN is so freaking bad-ass that they can singlehandedly overthrow fair elections, topple economies, and destroy nations, all without anyone ever being the wiser.

Sounds like maybe instead of sending our troops into Iraq, we should have juse sent ACORN, eh?

Oh, and Signy? Don't waste your time waiting for a response on that example of a "shotgun mortgage" - it's like the mythical "welfare queen" the right always goes on about, the non-working mother of 16 who drives a brand new Cadillac and sells crack while cashing her welfare check and buying booze with food stamps. It's a scare tactic, but they've never actually provided a real-world example of this. But they all know a guy who knows a guy who knows her...

Now I just need a picture of Obama holding a gun to a banker's head, saying "If you don't give black people loans, I'll shoot this banker."

Mike

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Tuesday, November 25, 2008 9:53 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Well, I noticed that Rappy never DID give me his definition of a "depression", and for the life of me I can't imagine why not: it was the easiest question I've ever asked him, or likely ever will!

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Tuesday, November 25, 2008 10:14 AM

Because answering the question might have required that Rappy back down on something, or heaven forbid, admit to being wrong just once - and that is simply something he refuses to do.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:02 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
So c'mon Rappy, come up with ONE example where "the government" forced a bank to make a bad loan.

One single, real example.

I dare ya.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

Like I have access to private bank loans? An absurd claim on your part, but the fact remains, banks were forced to make riskly loans or face legal action from the likes of ACORN if they didn't I dont care that you don't want to face reality, because it so pissse you off that I'm right and your extremist far Left wing assshole buddies in Congress are to blame for all this, but guess what ? I DON'T FUCKING CARE WHAT YOU THINK!

Oh, wait....here's a case which fits your bill. Take a gander at THIS gem !!

Quote:
THE seeds of todays financial meltdown lie in the Community Reinvestment Act - a law passed in 1977 and made riskier by unwise amendments and regulatory rulings in later decades.

CRA was meant to encourage banks to make loans to high-risk borrowers, often minorities living in unstable neighborhoods. That has provided an opening to radical groups like ACORN (the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now) to abuse the law by forcing banks to make hundreds of millions of dollars in subprime loans to often uncreditworthy poor and minority customers.

Any bank that wants to expand or merge with another has to show it has complied with CRA - and approval can be held up by complaints filed by groups like ACORN.

In fact, intimidation tactics, public charges of racism and threats to use CRA to block business expansion have enabled ACORN to extract hundreds of millions of dollars in loans and contributions from Americas financial institutions .

The Woods Fund report makes it clear Obama was fully aware of the intimidation tactics used by ACORNs Madeline Talbott in her pioneering efforts to force banks to suspend their usual credit standards. Yet he supported Talbott in every conceivable way. He trained her personal staff and other aspiring ACORN leaders, he consulted with her extensively, and he arranged a major boost in foundation funding for her efforts.

And, as the leader of another charity, the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, Obama channeled more funding Talbotts way - ostensibly for education projects but surely supportive of ACORNs overall efforts.

Case Name
Buycks-Roberson v. Citibank Fed. Sav. Bank Fair Housing/Lending/Insurance
Docket / Court 94 C 4094 ( N.D. Ill. ) FH-IL-0011
State/Territory Illinois
Case Summary
Plaintiffs filed their class action lawsuit on July 6, 1994, alleging that Citibank had engaged in redlining practices in the Chicago metropolitan area in violation of the Equal Credit Opportunity Act (ECOA), 15 U.S.C. 1691; the Fair Housing Act, 42 U.S.C. 3601-3619; the Thirteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution; and 42 U.S.C. 1981, 1982. Plaintiffs alleged that the Defendant-bank rejected loan applications of minority applicants while approving loan applications filed by white applicants with similar financial characteristics and credit histories. Plaintiffs sought injunctive relief, actual damages, and punitive damages.

U.S. District Court Judge Ruben Castillo certified the Plaintiffs suit as a class action on June 30, 1995. Buycks-Roberson v. Citibank Fed. Sav. Bank, 162 F.R.D. 322 (N.D. Ill. 1995). Also on June 30, Judge Castillo granted Plaintiffs motion to compel discovery of a sample of Defendant-banks loan application files. Buycks-Roberson v. Citibank Fed. Sav. Bank, 162 F.R.D. 338 (N.D. Ill. 1995).

The parties voluntarily dismissed the case on May 12, 1998, pursuant to a settlement agreement.
Plaintiffs Lawyers Alexis, Hilary I. (Illinois)
FH-IL-0011-7500 | FH-IL-0011-7501 | FH-IL-0011-9000
Childers, Michael Allen (Illinois)
FH-IL-0011-7500 | FH-IL-0011-7501 | FH-IL-0011-9000
Clayton, Fay (Illinois)
FH-IL-0011-7500 | FH-IL-0011-7501 | FH-IL-0011-9000
Cummings, Jeffrey Irvine (Illinois)
FH-IL-0011-7500 | FH-IL-0011-7501 | FH-IL-0011-9000
Love, Sara Norris (Virginia)
FH-IL-0011-9000
Miner, Judson Hirsch (Illinois)
FH-IL-0011-7500 | FH-IL-0011-9000
Obama, Barack H. (Illinois)
FH-IL-0011-7500 | FH-IL-0011-7501 | FH-IL-0011-9000
Wickert, John Henry (Illinois)
FH-IL-0011-9000

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:03 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Well, I noticed that Rappy never DID give me his definition of a "depression", and for the life of me I can't imagine why not: it was the easiest question I've ever asked him, or likely ever will!

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

It is easy, but I'm still not playing your game. Deal w/ it.

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Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:12 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

What "game"? The request that you reveal your definition of a depression before the fact? The request that you bring up one specific, actual example of the government interference which you claim.... ad infinitum ... caused this economic meltdown?

It's called "conversation" or "discussion".

I get the feeling you're here either to proselytize or to fight, but nothing else.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:17 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:

I get the feeling you're here either to proselytize or to fight, but nothing else.

Wrong on both accounts. But thanks for playing.

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Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:29 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Ah, scrolling up, I see you presented a story about a case agaisnt Citibank.

So, I went to that hotbed of liberalism -SNOPES and they said the story was FALSE. Specifically:

Quote:
This item seeks to dump much of the blame for America's current economic woes on Barack Obama by claiming that as a young lawyer, Obama filed a lawsuit requiring financial institutions to lend money to "poor people" and
"others who could not show proof that they could pay the money back." Although there is a (very) vague element of fact underneath this politicking, the piece quoted above is woefully wrong in all its particulars. The 1994 case of Buycks-Roberson v. Citibank Fed. Sav. Bank had nothing to do with requiring lenders to do business with people "who could not show proof that they could pay the money back."

The case was a class-action lawsuit against Citibank Federal Savings on behalf of a black Chicago woman, Selma Buycks-Roberson, who claimed she was unfairly denied a mortgage based on her race. The lawsuit sought to end the practice of redlining, a discriminatory practice by which banks, insurance companies, and other business institutions refuse or limit loans, mortgages, insurance, etc., based solely on the geographic area in which the applicant lives (a practice that commonly excludes minorities in inner-city neighborhoods, regardless of their income or ability to pay). Specifically, the lawsuit charged that Citibank "rejected loan applications of minority applicants while approving loan applications filed by white applicants with similar financial characteristics and credit histories."

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:33 PM

America loves a winner!

Of coruse they're not going to admit that, but that's actually what did happen.

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Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:42 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Rap

The case couldn't be won on somebody's say-so. They had to get actual company documentation to prove their case.

Really, now you're just being a silly goose.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:47 PM

Now?

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:51 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Of coruse they're not going to admit that

"They"? You mean Snopes?

Oh, I see. Snopes is part of that vast liberal-leaning media conspiracy? And Obama has fingers into a webite that discusses such hot topics as cell phone "do not call" registries and South American spiders stowing away in airline toilet seats?

Riiiight

*backs away slowly*

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:51 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Rap

The case couldn't be won on somebody's say-so. They had to get actual company documentation to prove their case.

Really, now you're just being a silly goose.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

Financial Meltdown: Where Does the Buck Stop?
Monday, September 22, 2008
By Matt Cover

Traders surround a post on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, Sept. 19, 2008. (AP Photo/Richard Drew)(CNSNews.com) – In taking over American International Group (AIG) last week, the federal government took control of its first insurance company and engineered its fourth bailout of a major financial institution this year, further injecting itself into the economic life of the nation while catalyzing heated debate on causes and cures.

Both presidential candidates have said the bailouts of AIG, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and Bear Stearns were necessary measures. Republican John McCain blamed greedy Wall Street tycoons, while Democrat Barack Obama blamed failed Republican economic policies.

According to Sheldon Richman, editor of The Freeman and an economist with the Foundation for Economic Education, government policy is to blame.

“The biggest culprit, I think, is the implicit guarantee the government has always issued to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac,” Richman said. “Something like 80% of the mortgages these days are held or backed by Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac,” he said, and “they get special treatment from the government like no other lender gets.”

These factors, particularly the government guarantee, have brought about our current financial crisis, said Richman.

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have been able to buy bundles of home mortgages, or mortgage-backed securities, in massive quantities without real-world considerations of financial risk, because they could count on the federal government to bail them out if things went south.

“We don’t call them ‘Government Sponsored Enterprises’ for nothing,” Richman said.

Other economists reject this analysis. In a paper published this year by the Brookings Institution, economists Martin Neil Baily, Douglas W. Elmendorf, and Robert E. Litan argue that since “financial institutions are regulated and supervised by a bewildering array of federal and state authorities,” those regulators could and should have acted.

“Despite the limited authority of any specific regulators,” the economists said, “more should have been done to prevent the crisis.”

But lack of oversight is hardly the problem, Richman said, because “the financial industry is regulated all over the place.” In Richman’s analysis, it is precisely the government guarantee of Fannie and Freddie that is “short-circuiting” the market.”

That guarantee “removes market discipline,” emboldens banks to make bad loans, and encourages Fannie and Freddie to back them. This, Richman asserted, is a “moral hazard.”

“It’s like if I invite you to Vegas and say the winnings are all yours and I’ll cover your losses,” Richman said. “You’re going to have a great old time. On the other [hand], if you go by yourself and you know you’ve got to cover your losses, you’re going to behave differently, and that’s been the problem.”

Providing context, Richman said government policy laid the foundation of this crisis more than 30 years ago when Congress passed the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977. This law forced banks to loan money to low-income borrowers as a way to ensure that financial institutions would “meet the credit needs of the local community.”

Under the Clinton administration, federal regulators began using the act to combat “red-lining,” a practice by which banks loaned money to some communities but not to others, based on economic status. “No loan is exempt, no bank is immune,” warned then-Attorney General Janet Reno. “For those who thumb their nose at us, I promise vigorous enforcement.”

The Clinton-Reno threat of “vigorous enforcement” pushed banks to make the now infamous loans that many blame for the current meltdown, Richman said. “Banks, in order to not get in trouble with the regulators, had to make loans to people who shouldn’t have been getting mortgage loans.”

This threat combined with the government backing of Fannie and Freddie set the stage for the current uncertainty, because the “banks could just sell the loans off to Fannie or Freddie,” who could buy them with little regard for negative financial outcomes, Richman said.

However, the most harmful federal policy may not have been backing Fannie and Freddie per se, but bailing them out.

“When the government basically expropriates stockholders, that makes other stockholders nervous and therefore drives down other stocks that are similar,” said Cato Institute economist Alan Reynolds. “Most obviously, Morgan Stanley [going] down after Lehman goes down.”

That nervousness can help drive poor economic policy decision-making. AIG, Reynolds explained, “has just got fabulous assets. It’s a trillion dollar company. It’s just short of cash.” The federal government bailout of AIG has been “draconian.”

Moreover, Reynolds said, the bailouts have forced these companies into a kind of “quasi-bankruptcy” when no one knew in fact whether the firms were or were not solvent.

Reynolds called the government’s intervention “capricious” and “whimsical” and said it appears to have “no rules.” No wonder, he said, investors have been scared away from infusing financial institutions with the capital they need to maintain solvency and stave off bankruptcy.

Economist Robert E. Litan challenged a negative view of government intervention. In bailing out Bear Stearns, Fannie, Freddie, and AIG, he said, “federal policymakers appropriately used their authority to stabilize the markets and protect the American economy from systemic risk and collapse.”

“We have learned from the past,” he said. “While Depression-era policy makers watched idly while events spiraled out of control, today’s policy-makers have recognized the need for swift action to contain the damage.”

What this financial crisis really shows, Richman said, is that politicians “don’t know what they’re doing. They don’t understand economics. They think there are no laws of economics, that they can decree whatever they want and that there won’t be consequences.”

I know, there are an infinite ways you can deny , ignore and turn away from reality, but at some point, you're just gonna have to stop and face it.

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Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:07 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

So you quote a right-wng blowhard... and then I quote a left-wing blowhard... and then you quote another right-wing blowhard...

Really, Rappy, we could go trading second-hand opinions all day long. But the FACT is that while Fannie and Freddie may back or hold a large number of mortgages, they only held 25% of the "subprime" mortgages, even even LESS (15%) of the mortgages that are currently "at risk" of defaulting.

Why???

Quote:
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have been able to buy bundles of home mortgages, or mortgage-backed securities, in massive quantities without real-world considerations of financial risk, because they could count on the federal government to bail them out if things went south.

Not so. Fannie and Freddie were required by government regulation to limit their risk. In terms of risk profile and capitalization, Fannie and Freddie were waaaaay better off than commercial banks!

Fannie and Freddie got into the risky loan business because their investors wanted them to. Banks which wrote "toxic mortgages" could sell bonds offering unsustainably high interest rates. THAT was the force pushing the problem: a bank which did NOT write toxic mortgages (with unrealistic revenue expectations) would soon find investment capital drying up. Even Fannie and Freddie experienced this problem: they stuck with less risky portfolios but could only offer bonds with interest rates only about 0.25% higher than T-bills. And their investors were pissed.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:51 PM

SWISH

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Of coruse they're not going to admit that, but that's actually what did happen.

Cites, please?

God, you make this easy. It's like you're a liberal posing as a conservative just to make conservatives look like idiots.

Chrisisall - is Auraptor really your alter-ego, created to make it easy for us liberal types to win debates so easily? Because this chump is a... well, it's just hard to believe anyone's alleged brain actually functions like this.

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Tuesday, November 25, 2008 2:09 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by swish:

Chrisisall - is Auraptor really your alter-ego, created to make it easy for us liberal types to win debates so easily? Because this chump is a... well, it's just hard to believe anyone's alleged brain actually functions like this.

I actually made up a fake guy here a few years back to make fun of extreme rightwingnuts, but AU just sorta outstripped my fictional dude, so I just dropped it & let AU do the work for me for real

The good-moody Chrisisall

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Tuesday, November 25, 2008 2:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by swish:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Of coruse they're not going to admit that, but that's actually what did happen.
Cites, please?

God, you make this easy. It's like you're a liberal posing as a conservative just to make conservatives look like idiots.

Chrisisall - is Auraptor really your alter-ego, created to make it easy for us liberal types to win debates so easily? Because this chump is a... well, it's just hard to believe anyone's alleged brain actually functions like this.

That's a waste of time. This is Rappy SOP, deny cited information from widely accepted sources, then make a contrary claim without evidence (or occationally, some editorial from a far-right site, see above), claim it as fact, then call the other person a liar or moron for not making their case.

You're right, though - he's so far off the charts, he comes off as parody.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, November 25, 2008 3:29 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by swish:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Of coruse they're not going to admit that, but that's actually what did happen.
Cites, please?

God, you make this easy. It's like you're a liberal posing as a conservative just to make conservatives look like idiots.

Chrisisall - is Auraptor really your alter-ego, created to make it easy for us liberal types to win debates so easily? Because this chump is a... well, it's just hard to believe anyone's alleged brain actually functions like this.

That's a waste of time. This is Rappy SOP, deny cited information from widely accepted sources, then make a contrary claim without evidence (or occationally, some editorial from a far-right site, see above), claim it as fact, then call the other person a liar or moron for not making their case.

You're right, though - he's so far off the charts, he comes off as parody.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

That is because Rappy is really Stephen Colbert

Testing material on FFF.net

Lets party like its 1939

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Tuesday, November 25, 2008 3:45 PM

SWISH

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
You're right, though - he's so far off the charts, he comes off as parody.

That is because Rappy is really Stephen Colbert

I was thinking more along the lines of Keith Olbermann. There's a hard edge to the: please make fun of me in AUraptor that fits Keith's style.

But hey, if AU is real, kudos. There's a certain greatness in being parody of yourself. Not many folks can achieve that.

Got those cites yet AUraptor? Please, I'm just aching to see what you'll come up with next.

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Tuesday, November 25, 2008 4:47 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Yanno, I miss Hero already.

He's on vacation out west, I hope he's havin a good time.

And do you know why ?

Cause evil bastard that he is, he doesn't pretend to be otherwise, and when you add in that he does actually put real criminals away on occasion and his utterly unapologetic stance on seeking his own interests...
(What better job in a proto-police state than being the police ? you'll never go hungry, that's for sure.)

There's a certain air of magnificent to that bastardy as well.

And unlike our current crowd, he's crafty, intelligent and possesses a decent sense of both humor and irony.

A worthy foe is he, and I miss that right now, when all we're left with is a pack of palookas more closely related to...

This.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Tuesday, November 25, 2008 4:53 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Yanno, I miss Hero already.

He's on vacation out west, I hope he's havin a good time.

Just curious Frem, you going away anytime soon?

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Tuesday, November 25, 2008 5:27 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Very subtle, BDN, impressive, even.

Alas, no - cannot afford to, between being shanghaied by the city and trying to get these new contracts up, while moving down the road a lil ways, it's been a bit of a chore.

Had to hand over the cab keys for good, I liked the work and would love to keep my hand in, but the tax bite is actually more than the extra income if I continue to dabble and I cannot afford it.

It's funny though, one particular industrial plant I pitched to was so convinced it's guards were doing a good job, in spite of the fact that they were shorting the rounds and camping out in the security office watchin DVDs on the camera monitor...

That paid for dinner it did, when I asked em if they were willing to put some money on that assertion and they did - when he put the twenty down on the counter I topped it with a list of all the blown lights, unlocked doors, fence damage, potential safety hazards and whatnot that they had missed, and then gently laid one of their own cameras I had dismounted and taken with me on top to weight it down, it was game, set and match.

Did I mention we have another new contract ?

Not only did I creep the place, AND do rounds for them, but took and pocketed one of the very cameras who's monitor they were supposed to be watching at the time ?

Poor (name removed), that's what they get for not vetting and training their personnel correctly.

The folks I got do include a couple of simian knuckledraggers in there, but as long as they have clear directions and a "What if" flowchart to consult in case of the unexpected, they do ok.

The younger ones, I work to try to instill a sense of pride and nostalgia lacking in most companies by teaching them some of the professional history I know regarding the position and traditions of the Night Watchman - considering for many of them the other options are military service or the burger joint, the good ones take to it like a duck to water.

They key is the attitude, the conduct - this is YOUR turf, YOUR people, your protectees, they are supposed to like you, be comforted by your presence, it's your job to make them feel safe, secure and able to sleep easy without concern, a mildly paternal/protective aspect with a friendly and helpful demeanor, rather than a slavish rules lawyering arrogance.

We've got some good ones, I am quite proud of them, they take pride in their work and feel they are carrying on a time-honored tradition, watching them reluctantly unshoulder the clock and hand it over always makes me smile a little bit inside.

You GOT to have the clock, swipe cards just don't carry the same sense of passing on tradition.
http://www.employeetimeclocks.com/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=57

There's a lot of history and heritage in that small bit of metal bound in studded leather, something you just can't replace with a mere plastic card.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:00 PM

Market funds are up about 20% in the past 4 trading days. If somebody can't make money in this climate, they should reconsider whether they should be in the market at all.
This is most areas: common, Small Cap, International.

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Thursday, November 27, 2008 12:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
In 2006 the Democrats got a slim majority in the House and broke even with repubicans in the Senate.

But let's assume for a moment the Democrats had some actual power in Congress starting 2006. Did you even look at the DOW chart ? Go ahead. Look at it. Tell me what it did in 2006. Then come back and tell me how wrong, wrong, wrong you were to attribute anything good to the Democrats in 2006 ...

You're not making much sense. What point are you trying to make, that the Democrats in congress stunted or ended the economic growth? If so, then you're correct, but your statements are unclear. If you intended an opposite and incorrect conclusion, your logic is faulty.

The FY 06 budget was already done and in full swing at the beginning of 2006. The Dow was about 11K. In Sep/Oct 06 the FY 07 budget was already done and in effect. In Nov 06 the elections resulted in Dems in control of House (where ALL spending bills originate) and half in Senate, where spending is approved or not. At end of 2006, Dow was about 12,500 - about a 13.6% gain in ONE YEAR.
Then, Dems-elect are sworn into Congress in Jan 2007. They start working on the FY 08 Federal budget, to take effect Sep/Oct 07. In July (Congress recess) Dow hits a peak or 2. In Sep/Oct 07 the FY 08 budget starts, the first time the new Dems have budget in place. The gains of the past 5 years allow momentum for a few weeks, until Oct 07 has peak of Dow about 14K. This is still a growth of 12% in 10 months, and 27.3% in last 22 months. Once the Dem generated FY 08 budget takes full effect, Dow drops about 46% in 13 months.

So what was your point again?

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Thursday, November 27, 2008 6:48 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by swish:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Of coruse they're not going to admit that, but that's actually what did happen.
Cites, please?

God, you make this easy. It's like you're a liberal posing as a conservative just to make conservatives look like idiots.

Chrisisall - is Auraptor really your alter-ego, created to make it easy for us liberal types to win debates so easily? Because this chump is a... well, it's just hard to believe anyone's alleged brain actually functions like this.

Cites already given. I feel no need to repost. Sorry. Keep telling yourself you're winning. That's a good start.

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Thursday, November 27, 2008 7:01 AM

America loves a winner!

Attachment :

Obama's recent appointments and remarks have shown , at least for now, that he's not planning to govern from the far, far left, but is showing signs of moving to the centre.

Cautiously optimistic

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Thursday, November 27, 2008 5:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Attachment :

Obama's recent appointments and remarks have shown , at least for now, that he's not planning to govern from the far, far left, but is showing signs of moving to the centre.

Cautiously optimistic

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

There may be hope for you yet!

And it's starting to look like even Wall Street is becoming cautiously optimistic.

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Thursday, November 27, 2008 8:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Attachment :

Obama's recent appointments and remarks have shown , at least for now, that he's not planning to govern from the far, far left, but is showing signs of moving to the centre.

Cautiously optimistic

Hillary and Daschle and Janet Napolitano are not far left???? Near the center?? Sometimes you convince me you are delusional.

And Wall Street is cautiously optomistic when BO shuts his trap. When he starts blabbing about what he's going to do to the economy, the market dumps. Look at Tuesday's hourly movement on stocks.

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Friday, November 28, 2008 6:38 AM

DARKJESTER

Quote:
Hillary and Daschle and Janet Napolitano are not far left???? Near the center?? Sometimes you convince me you are delusional.

Now THAT is rich! Rap is nothing if not consistently conservative. Now someone comes and blasts Rap for NOT seeing Obama's recent appointments as ultra left-wing!?

One tentative, shuffling step towards accommodation and *WHAM* suddenly you're no longer conservative enough!

Tickles me a bit - politics. And leaves a nasty taste in my mouth.

MAL "You only gotta scare him."
JAYNE "Pain is scary..."

http://www.fireflytalk.com - Big Damn Podcast

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Saturday, November 29, 2008 12:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DarkJester:

Now THAT is rich! Rap is nothing if not consistently conservative.

I would disagree. I often find him repeating declarations which were handed down through the liberal filter of mainstream media. It's something that is difficult to counteract, but one must be vigilant.

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Monday, December 1, 2008 11:32 AM

WHOZIT

It dropped 650 points today, welcome to D.C. Barry, have a bagel!

I'm going to microwave a bagel and have sex with it - Peter Griffin

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Tuesday, January 20, 2009 11:08 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

time to get it moving

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Wednesday, January 21, 2009 4:46 AM

DREAMTROVE

From the point of view of someone who worked in this field for many years, and maybe there are others here, POTUS has little effect on the market. If anyone is to blame, sorry guys, it's probably Clinton, for the deregulation of the banks. But the banks are definitely directly to blame for the disaster. It has nothing to do with Obama.

Personally, I think Obama will get rid of capital gains tax, or try to. He said he's pretty much a Reaganite. I think the democrats will try to stop him, and might succeed. We need to get rid of taxing ourselves to death to support this monster govt. It's like an army that uses it's own members as a food source. It's just not going to be an effective global strategy.

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Wednesday, January 21, 2009 9:14 AM

Can we start by gutting the Defense Department and doing away with useless and redundant bureaucracies like Homeland Security, the BATF, the DEA, etc.? Defense counts towards more than 62% of our entire budget, and is almost (but not quite) as much as the entire rest of the world combined spends on defense.

Can we dump all faith-based incentives? Can we dump welfare? And by this, I mean the MASSIVE welfare that we're giving to corporations and banks. Last time I checked, the welfare department DIDN'T have a trillion-dollar a year budget to give away to crack-heads, but apparently we DO have it to give away to coke-addicted banksters!

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Wednesday, January 21, 2009 9:20 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Rap

I just had to ask about this:

"Since Obama was selected President, the market's done what ?"

Do you not believe an election took place that Obama won by a wide margin ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, January 21, 2009 9:32 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Rap

I just had to ask about this:

"Since Obama was selected President, the market's done what ?"

Do you not believe an election took place that Obama won by a wide margin ?

George Soros, who has hedged his fortune into seeing the United States fail economically, is in cotrol of the country now. Obama is merely a puppet, selected for the purpose of distracting the masses with meaningless imagry, lacking any substance, what so ever.

There's been a regime change, and a coup perpitrated by the main stream media.

Don't kid yourself.

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Wednesday, January 21, 2009 9:33 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Oh, BTW, since Obama was sworn in the DOW's gone up about 180 pints.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, January 21, 2009 9:35 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"There's been a regime change, and a coup perpitrated by the main stream media."

Assuming what you say is true for the sake of argument, did the MSM install dubya ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, January 21, 2009 10:39 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Just bumping this for Rap.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, January 21, 2009 10:45 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Oh, BTW, since Obama was sworn in the DOW's gone up about 180 pints.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

Actually, it went down 332 pts.

Today it's come back almost to where it was, +279.72

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Wednesday, January 21, 2009 10:46 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"There's been a regime change, and a coup perpitrated by the main stream media."

Assuming what you say is true for the sake of argument, did the MSM install dubya ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

Assuming what I say it true ?

No.

( and I didn't assume what I said was true.....I was joshin'. )

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Wednesday, January 21, 2009 11:30 AM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:

Oh, BTW, since Obama was sworn in the DOW's gone up about 180 pints.

Lol.
(for up 180)
And also

lol.
(for pints)

Yes, I think that it is definitely up, the Tao is up 180 pints of bohemian black ale. Or guiness if you prefer. I don't, it's the non-irish in me, Guiness is just kind of bitter.

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Wednesday, January 21, 2009 10:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Oh, BTW, since Obama was sworn in the DOW's gone up about 180 pints.

Delusional much?

Quote:

Actually, it went down 332 pts.

Today it's come back almost to where it was, +279.72

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

Ahhh, back to reality.

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Thursday, January 22, 2009 2:43 AM