Actual Change 平静 by dreamtrove

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Heck, since I'm up (and when do I ever sleep?), I'll bite:

He's instituted new rules for lobbyists and for people leaving his administration to become lobbyists. It's not far-reaching enough, but it's a start.

And one of his first actions was to issue a "Not so fast!" memo reversing many of Bush's last-minute regulations that he tried to rush into effect on his way out the door.

Closing Gitmo. I think it's a piece of political theatre, but a valuable one. It sends a message to the world that in THIS America, we don't do things that way. At least, not openly. ;)

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Wednesday, January 21, 2009 8:34 PM

America loves a winner!

Pay freeze for the White House staff. Super. Now, if he could somehow widdle that number down from its current # of 1,700 !!

Yep. 1 thousand and 700 people currently are on the full time,PAID White House staff. Clinton, Bush, and now Obama....doesn't matter. Trim that stuff down, to at least under a 1000. Please.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, January 22, 2009 1:15 PM

Orders to comply with freedom of information acts. Wasn't complete, he just said "err on the side of transparency."

Also, closing all overseas prisons, not just gitmo. I need to link these.

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Thursday, January 22, 2009 1:26 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

Here is the list of executive orders:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/executive_orders

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Thursday, January 22, 2009 3:35 PM

Thanks, reversing the torture, that was another statement.

Also, he said something about splitting up the bailout differently, among smaller parties, and hold all those midnight provisions.

But of course, these are words, changes will take time, but we'll keep watching.

Another one: He is appointing a special envoy to the middle east, and considering other special envoys to other "sensitive areas." These people will act for the state dept. in those countries, so Hillary can be Secretary of State only for visits to Portugal :)

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Friday, January 23, 2009 2:55 AM

Obama announces lift on ban on embryonic stem cells following RTL protest. (Knew those were good for something

)
FDA follows suit, OKs first embryonic stem cell treatment.

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Friday, January 23, 2009 3:45 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
He's instituted new rules for lobbyists and for people leaving his administration to become lobbyists. It's not far-reaching enough, but it's a start.

And then broke it by sending a big name lobbyist to help run the Pentagon.

Quote:

And one of his first actions was to issue a "Not so fast!" memo reversing many of Bush's last-minute regulations that he tried to rush into effect on his way out the door.

And one of the first actions EVERY President does. So its 'Change, just like all the others before me'.

Quote:

Closing Gitmo. I think it's a piece of political theatre, but a valuable one. It sends a message to the world that in THIS America, we don't do things that way. At least, not openly. ;)

And it sends a message to terrorists that in THIS America committing acts of terror will get you sent to a minimum security prison in John Murtha's district.

Closing Gitmo is fine, Obama is the boss after all, but the FIRST step should have been some kind of "if we close it, what the hell do we do with all those guys in orange?" I remember this one time they were closing a tunnel on I-77 in West Virginia. They built the new road first...THEN closed the tunnel. Very clever those Mountaineers.

And then there is the change to embrace a new openess followed by no questions and strict control of media access.

Change we can believe in is really Change we can lie about, ignore, or botch, so far anyway.

Edited to add: Just to keep in the spirit of the discussion. I noticed he's changed his clothes several times since taking the oath.
H

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Friday, January 23, 2009 3:50 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Obama announces lift on ban on embryonic stem cells following RTL protest. (Knew those were good for something )
FDA follows suit, OKs first embryonic stem cell treatment.

There was no ban on ESC research or treatment. Never has been.

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Friday, January 23, 2009 4:09 AM

Quote:

Closing Gitmo is fine, Obama is the boss after all, but the FIRST step should have been some kind of "if we close it, what the hell do we do with all those guys in orange?" I remember this one time they were closing a tunnel on I-77 in West Virginia. They built the new road first...THEN closed the tunnel. Very clever those Mountaineers.

Thanks Hero. I think that I-77 tunnel might be a good place to put the guys in orange.

But you're right, actual change. It's important to skeetshoot any changes which are just polispeak and not actual changes.

Rap, keep telling yourself that.

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Friday, January 23, 2009 4:17 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:

Rap, keep telling yourself that.

I only have to say it once. It's the truth. There was nothing keeping state or private research and development on Embryonic Stem Cells. Only on FEDERAL $$ spent on those things.

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Friday, January 23, 2009 4:46 AM

I said this wasn't a thread for arguments, and this is a dead argument. But the Fact is that Bush told the FDA they could not okay an embryonic stem cell treatment, and when NIH okayed the one for Advanced Cell on the grounds that because their stem cell research doesn't kill the embryo, it didn't violate the ban, Bush made some statement preventing it. A lot of power and action is unofficial. Officially, there was no "war" in Iraq. We have no conflict in Afghanistan, it's a NATO action, let alone any "war", or anything in Pakistan, but in reality, we have guys all over the place.

Executive Orders, Signing Statements, even random phone calls carry a lot of executive power. The fact is that Obama has signalled a change in policy over Bush. I think that a sane and reasonable defense would be to say "McCain would have done the same thing" which is true, but arguments will just clutter up this thread. I created it to mark actual change from Obama.

ATM, I'm agreeing with Hero that the Lobbying Reform might not be actual change. We'll see. On Stem Cells, I think that we're seeing an actual change in policy starting here. He doesn't have federal $$$ to allocate yet, but he will have bailout money first. A lot of those stem cell companies burrowed into a lot of debt doing this, one went under, and a lot of them had to suspend operations, staff, etc. It would take less than a billion to bail the whole industry out of debt, and that might mean the difference between SaudiGroup getting 325 billion instead of the 326 billion that Bush handed them for no good reason, and it would do a lot of good for America, and extend the lifespan of Auraptor, among others.

Try to see things as they really are, not what the talking points tell you they are. It's not a hail Obama, I haven't seen any federal $$$ yet, but it's looking like a change in policy.

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Friday, January 23, 2009 4:55 AM

America loves a winner!

Sorry, you're flatly stating something that is not a fact, and presenting it as fact.

example:

I saw a UFO

Many folks equate UFO to mean " flying space craft from another planet ".

No, UFO means exactly what it stands for - UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECT. Nothing more.

This b.s. about E.O's and random phone calls carrying power does not apply here. I'm not arguing this, I'm simply correcting a falsehood. Big difference.

Any state or private concern wishing to do their own research on ESCs could. California is one state which did, using the people's $$ in that state ( And possibly one reason they're billions of $$'s in debt now, but that's for them to argue over, not us, not here

)

As you were.

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Friday, January 23, 2009 9:08 AM

Quote:

And it sends a message to terrorists that in THIS America committing acts of terror will get you sent to a minimum security prison in John Murtha's district.

Cites, please? Can you please show me where anyone has said that we're sending these people to "minimum security" prisons, or (as RapTard has insinuated) just letting them go?

[rant]I mean, I s'pose in your neck of the woods if you close a prison, you just release all the prisoners back into the wild, but in most civilized places (as in, not Appalachia and the Rust Belt), we move them to other prisons. It stuns me to see how unfailingly stupid the right is on this subject, repeating over and over the silly talking point that "if you close Gitmo, you're freeing terrorists! as if were their new mantra.

Of course, that presupposes that these people should BE in prison in the first place. A great many of them have never been charged, tried, or convicted of anything - we have them in prison simply because we don't like them. And all this talk of torturing "terrorists"? Just so much of the usual right-wing bullshit. We're actually torturing SUSPECTS. There's a difference, there really is.

[/rant]

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Friday, January 23, 2009 9:21 AM

About Five Thousand Bucks. :)

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Friday, January 23, 2009 9:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
We're actually torturing SUSPECTS. There's a difference, there really is.

Jack Bauer does it. 'Dirty' Harry Callahan did it.

Those shows & movies should be rated RII:
Restricted from Impressionable Idiots.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, January 23, 2009 10:38 AM

1-22-09, signed a highly controversal exec order which closes Gitmo and places all enemy combatants into civilian courts. This can easily lead to the eventual release of some enemies of the United States. If...and I stress IF...even one of these people, once released, kills EVEN ONE SINGLE american, then Obama is guilty of violating his Oath to "Protect and defend the constitution of the United States" and should resign the same day. Furthermore, with the same exec order he sets as policy that captured enemy be treated per the Army Field Manuel, written for standard Army personel. This is appropriate for boots on the ground (you don't want sgt Bob Smith cutting off fingers to learn info, else you wind up with Abu Graib) but it is NOT appropriate for experienced interigators (NSA, CIA). If an enemy of the union is captured and it is revealed that this person knows the means of an attack on america, and the interrigators are unable to get this info out of the person by "Any Means" and if as a result EVEN ONE AMERICAN DIES, Obama should again resign for his failure to protect and defend the United States of America.

If these things ever happen, I will observe and think to myself "Is this really change I can believe in?" Those words will certainly ring empty to loved ones of the deceased and Obama's legacy will be one of disgrace.

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Friday, January 23, 2009 10:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Cites, please? Can you please show me where anyone has said that we're sending these people to "minimum security" prisons.

He's being sarcastic. Murtha supports jailing these people stateside and when asked outside his office by a reporter if he'd take these prisoners into his Penn district he said "I only have a minumum security prison in my district. So, No." This became a propanda clip on talk radio today. Again, Rap is being sarcastic.

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Friday, January 23, 2009 11:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
1-22-09, signed a highly controversal exec order

By whose standards? NeoCons? Like the ones that sold America on WMD?

Quote:
This can easily lead to the eventual release of enemies of the United States.

After a trial? If they ARE enemies, I'm confident our judicial system can figure that out.

Quote:
If...and I stress IF...even one of these people, once released, kills EVEN ONE SINGLE american, then Obama is guilty of violating his Oath to "Protect and defend the constitution of the United States" and should resign the same day.

So who do we hang out to dry for ALL the Americans who died in Iraq due to a war that was by it's very stated nature & goals unnecessary?

Quote:
If a captured enemy person knows the means of an attack on america

LOL, you can't reasonably 'know' this, except in the realm of the dramatic presentations I submit you yourself are too impressionable to view.

It truly scares me the peeps such as yourself are allowed to vote. There should be a history & intelligence test to qualify, IMO.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, January 23, 2009 11:26 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Reversed the order w/holding US funds from international family planning groups wich also provide abortion services.

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Friday, January 23, 2009 12:07 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Yanno, I thought about this a while, and to move the trials to civvie courts is actually a GOOD idea.

Stay with me on this; think it through.

By considering them some kind of super-deadly "international terrorist" we stroke their ego and those of their compatriots still in the field, by taking them so seriously, something we shouldn't have done in the first place.

Fuck this military tribunal crap, and charging anyone with terrorism, the one's who DID do shit like fire on us, or get caught in our occupied zones doing suspicious shit, don't treat em as some kinda international supermenance, treat them like petty crooks, as scornfully backhanded as possible.

Assault with a deadly weapon, possession of explosives without a permit or tax stamp, auto theft, hell, smack em with trespassing on a military base, and not necessarily club fed or min security, but just throw em in the slammer for a while with all the other common criminals and then ship em back and let the local officials in Iraq deal with it however they please.

They WANT to be taken seriously, and doing so in the first place was the beginning of a cascade of failures which landed us in this mess - they wanted us to take them seriously, to come over there and make something of it, incidentally throwing down regimes they wanted rid of so that they could move in and eject our puppets when we finally got tired of chasing the bastards all around the countryside and went home.

And we walked right into it because they played on the ignorance, intolerance, racism and stupidity of much of the american public and the ruling cabal at the time - even provided our boys as nice handy popup targets where the bastards could GET to them, lacking a navy or airforce to come over HERE and pick serious shit.

So fuck em, treat the ones we actually GOT something on like common criminals, and throw the rest out of a truck right in the middle of bagdad square without further comment about it, no recriminations and no apology, just kick em the hell out of the truck and drive off.

Quit GIVING them the power to defy us by inflating them into something fearful, scorn them, MOCK them, laugh at them even, destroy their credibility with the locals, and you will break them utterly.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Friday, January 23, 2009 12:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Quit GIVING them the power to defy us by inflating them into something fearful, scorn them, MOCK them, laugh at them even, destroy their credibility with the locals, and you will break them utterly.

At the risk of repeating myself,
Yup.

The looped Chrisisall

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Friday, January 23, 2009 12:13 PM

Quote:

Reversed the order w/holding US funds from international family planning groups wich also provide abortion services.

Yeah, I have to say, I saw this one and didn't post it because I didn't agree with it, but I guess we post em all. Then decide. We report, we decide

BSCM, Chris:
If you want to rant, start a thread, and we can have a bloodbath. It's change you can't believe in, but myself and a lot of others can. I've been detained, I know other people have, and it gives you pause. You want to think... "Hmmm... I have constitutional rights, right?" Well, nice to know those are back. IMHO.

It's okay to snipe the changes as you post them, just so long as this thread doesn't become the battleground is all.

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Friday, January 23, 2009 12:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

It truly scares me the peeps such as yourself are allowed to vote. There should be a history & intelligence test to qualify

Let me scare you even more Chris

1. My IQ was tested 3 times in my life. Age 15 in HS = 138 Age 22 in college = 140 Age 26 by the Army ASVAB test = 139.

2. I'm not just a voter. I'm running for public office in 2010.

3. As far as a history test goes? I minored in History at Purdue. My degree is in Civil Engineering. I dare anyone on this site to out debate me on the 3 topics of which I'm well versed: Astronomy, History, and military structure. Not that I can know everything, but I know far more than most here. "Citizen" got a dose of scottish history from me on Tuesday. "Jewelstatefan" pulled my Astronomy knowledge out in the discussion over the verse map.

And as far as desribing the Exec order as Highly Controversal? The gallup poll conducted on 1-21-09 showed that 44% of americans DO NOT favor closing Gitmo to a 30-ish figure that do. The rest "didn't know". I'll look for that poll and post it, I just saw it this morning.

*Edit* Gallup Polls on Gitmo
http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474977570620
http://www.gallup.com/poll/113893/Americans-Send-No-Clear-Mandate-Guan
tanamo-Bay.aspx

Here's an older one from 2005
http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/2005/06/21/2005-06-21_keep_gi
tmo_open__58__of_amer.html
I could post more, but I'm sure you get the picture now.

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Friday, January 23, 2009 12:58 PM

Quote:
bluesuncompanyman wrote:
Friday, January 23, 2009 10:38
1-22-09, signed a highly controversal exec order which closes Gitmo and places all enemy combatants into civilian courts. This can easily lead to the eventual release of enemies of the United States. If...and I stress IF...even one of these people, once released, kills EVEN ONE SINGLE american, then Obama is guilty of violating his Oath to "Protect and defend the constitution of the United States" and should resign the same day. Furthermore, with the same exec order he sets as policy that captured enemy be treated per the Army Field Manuel, written for standard Army personel. This is appropriate for boots on the ground (you don't want sgt Bob Smith cutting off fingers to learn info, else you wind up with Abu Graib) but it is NOT appropriate for experienced interigators (NSA, CIA). If an enemy of the union is captured and it is revealed that this person knows the means of an attack on america, and the interrigators are unable to get this info out of the person by "Any Means" and if as a result EVEN ONE AMERICAN DIES, Obama should again resign for his failure to protect and defend the United States of America.

If these things ever happen, I will observe and think to myself "Is this really change I can believe in?" Those words will certainly ring empty to loved ones of the deceased and Obama's legacy will be one of disgrace.

So by the same token, if a murderer is tried and NOT convicted, and then goes on to murder again, killing even one American, the President, the Senators from that state, the Representative from that district, and the prosecutors should all resign their jobs in disgrace? After all, it's THEIR fault a murderer went free, yes?

Or is it that we should demand PROOF and EVIDENCE before we put ANYBODY away for life? Radical concept for you to get your head around, I'm sure...

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Friday, January 23, 2009 1:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
So by the same token, if a murderer is tried and NOT convicted, and then goes on to murder again, killing even one American, the President, the Senators from that state, the Representative from that district, and the prosecutors should all resign their jobs in disgrace?

Alas, I expected the comparision of a civil court failure to be dragged up to compare with the handeling of enemies of the United States. It's an old one, bantered about since 2002. One thing I'm not an expert in is law. If you want a legal conversation drag HERO into this thread and ask for a comment.

I do not see wisdom in granting foreign enemies of the United States american rights. But what does my opinion matter? It shall happen, time will pass, and unintended consequences Will or will not come about. Our president either is or is not making the right decision to protect our lives. Time will show us the truth.

I'm sure Rap will agree with me on this one: If I can save the life of just one american by paying the price of abusing an enemy of the the union, I would do it with no question. Even if that american calls me a villan, I'd still do it to keep them alive.

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Friday, January 23, 2009 1:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:

1. My IQ was tested 3 times in my life. Age 15 in HS = 138 Age 22 in college = 140 Age 26 by the Army ASVAB test = 139.

Then your IQ is comparable to my own. That's okay, I consider myself an idiot.

Quote:

2. I'm not just a voter. I'm running for public office in 2010.

...I won't say it...

Quote:

3. As far as a history test goes? I minored in History at Purdue. My degree is in Civil Engineering.

Yeah, and Bush graduated from a pretty good school too.

BTW, peeps saying in a poll that they don't favour closing Gitmo does not mean they automatically also would describe it as 'highly controversial'; some peeps might classify it as merely somewhat regrettable.

I go by what you say here, and it's pretty limited in it's scope.
You are clearly of the us vs. them variety. That's useful to a small degree, but only a small one. Stick to Civil Engineering, that's way more quantifiable, more cut & dried.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, January 23, 2009 1:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
Our president either is or is not making the right decision to protect our lives.

See? Black & white; right & wrong.

The not-so-herbert Chrisisall

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Friday, January 23, 2009 1:22 PM

And here I thought catfighting was only for girls. Meanwhile, I'm going to side with the anarchist.

In fact, let me go a step further. Kill all this glorification of school shootings and serial killers. There's no glory in being a psycho. It doesn't take a working brain, or a worthy cause, or any kind of guts. And suicidal shmuck with the iq of a rabbit can do it, and our culture makes them into a cult figure.

This has been a problem with our society for a while, because our media loves sensationalism. Charles Manson ran a drug den, and was a sucky musician. And that's not unique. He doesn't deserve cult iconic status. His people killed the family next door. They weren't even the neighbors they wanted to kill, they killed the subletter instead. They're not just drugged killers, they're fuck-ups at the same time.

So back to the Gitmo guys, these guys are fuck-ups too. If they were real terrorists, they would be basking in virgins or not, maybe just piles of debris, but either these are guys with a small world view, who screwed up the mission, failed bin laden, allah or whatever, or they're the wrong guy we grabbed by mistake. Either way, they're not supervillains or superheroes, because there's little difference. Who cares. The only thing beside elevating random shmucks to star status and locking up random shmoes, is that we've lowered ourselves to third world levels, and wrecked the US image internationally, which is the thing which effects me personally.

So, [/rant] but this is a thread for posting policy changes, as I said, if you want to spar over some issue, take it outside. It's just as easy to hit the post new thread button is it is to hit reply. Sorry to do this, but I wanted some sense of order to the collection of obama changes, for better or worse, not a bar brawl, and if you're going to take it there, at least have the class to bring green destiny.

Damn, hotlinking. Someone got a better shot of green destiny, send it along.

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Friday, January 23, 2009 1:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
BTW, peeps saying in a poll that they don't favour closing Gitmo does not mean they automatically also would describe it as 'highly controversial'; some peeps might classify it as merely somewhat regrettable.

I recall gallup polls in 2001 with similar results related to Bush's inaugauration. The "less-than-50%" majority supporting the presidency and the 20-ish percent condemming it, and yet they were always described as controversial. But now with a reverse 44% to 35% poll, it's not?

You've said before on here Chris that you are pursuing truth in the fashon of Kwai Chang Caine. Do you not see the truth of defending people? Of saving them? Even from themselves?

As far as being a Yes vs No person, you know I'm libertarian. This is how we live. Matters of security are the only times I relent in my pursuit of liberty. Lives are just simply more important.

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Friday, January 23, 2009 1:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Either way, they're not supervillains or superheroes, because there's little difference. Who cares. The only thing beside elevating random shmucks to star status and locking up random shmoes, is that we've lowered ourselves to third world levels, and wrecked the US image internationally, which is the thing which effects me personally.

Yup.

Quote:

Sorry to do this, but I wanted some sense of order to the collection of obama changes, for better or worse, not a bar brawl

Sorry, I'm easily baited.

The meow Chrisisall

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Friday, January 23, 2009 1:29 PM

Indeed. I shall cease my banter as well.

My first post was in the spirit of the thread topic but I was called to the carpet by Kwicko and Chris and felt like typing.

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Friday, January 23, 2009 1:42 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Of saving them? Even from themselves?

That's a damn scary thing to say.

Twice as much coming from someone who intends to run for political office.

Best not divulge where and when.

-F

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Friday, January 23, 2009 2:27 PM

Quote:

1. My IQ was tested 3 times in my life. Age 15 in HS = 138 Age 22 in college = 140 Age 26 by the Army ASVAB test = 139.

Hmmm... Mine was tested in grade school = 146, high school = 151, and about ten years ago = 156. So I seem to be learning how to learn more...

I always tried to be either stoned or hung over when they'd give us the old aptitude tests in high school, and always punched out in the 99th percentile, and scored tops in my group on the ACT entrance exam for college. Fun stuff, those tests; I find if you get good and shithammered the night before, you tend to not overthink your answers, because your head hurts already!

And no, I'm not a MENSA member, because (like Groucho Marx) I wouldn't join any club that would have me as a member.

Math is my worst subject, so of course I'm the guy at work that people come to with math problems. I do well at pattern-recognition problems, though.

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Friday, January 23, 2009 2:31 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I don't know how this started, but OK - I'll join in. What's your IQ if you finish all the questions correctly ahead of time ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, January 23, 2009 2:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
I find if you get good and shithammered the night before, you tend to not overthink your answers, because your head hurts already!

That's how I always took em, but me I don't think it helped.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Saturday, January 24, 2009 7:35 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Cites, please? Can you please show me where anyone has said that we're sending these people to "minimum security" prisons, or (as RapTard has insinuated) just letting them go?

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09023/943964-100.stm?cmpid=latest.xml

http://www.wpxi.com/news/18537746/detail.html

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/01/22/murthas-invitation-gitmo-pr
isoners-create-jobs-officials-say/

The full text of Murtha's interview, which I watched, he specifically mentions a minimum security prison and says they'd be no more dangerous in such a prison as they would anywhere.

H

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Saturday, January 24, 2009 7:41 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
2. I'm not just a voter. I'm running for public office in 2010.

Me too. But I'm not going to win absent a miracle. I'm running to show I can organize and run a campaign and raise money. I'll lose in the Primary, then get a party spot for 2012 or 2013 (we elect judges in off years).

There's an outside chance I'll win because of some local considerations and my name, but the race I'm running in will be too high profile for a first time run, I'll lose.

H

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Saturday, January 24, 2009 9:02 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Ain't how much money you raise so much as how you use it.

I think the entire out-of-pocket budget, start to finish, for the city council fiasco came to about eighty five bucks, and that was mostly for print and delivery of the proposed budget to every household in town so that they got to see where every penny went and could raise hell about any changes if they cared to - did that on my own dime cause there wasn't any provision for doing so otherwise.

I turned down all offers of external contributions cause I had no need of them, hell, given that the office was across the street, I didn't even need gas money, meh.

You *can* run it on the cheap and do pretty well, especially if you play rough.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Saturday, January 24, 2009 10:34 AM

FREM

An interesting point, and something I've argued many times with people. I believe that very little is needed in the way of money, if the volunteers believe in the cause.

I think this has ultimately better results then hiring lots of people. The only problems I have are 1) convincing people that the cause it worth it (that it's just, but also that it will work) and 2) freeing people from their ties to hamster wheel society so that they are able to help.

As propaganda minister maybe you have some advice. If you don't want to post it, you can PM me. I put an email address on this thing now that works.

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Saturday, January 24, 2009 4:09 PM

double post

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Sunday, January 25, 2009 7:35 AM

A war with Pakistan
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/24/pakistan-barack-obama-air-
strike
Attacking those tribal areas. There's a man.
I'm sure some rural kids on the fringe really posed a threat to the most powerful nation on earth. It takes real courage to attack random people, and your own ally. Oh yeah, did I mention that the US is sworn by treaty to protect Pakistan against all enemies. So is Britain. In fact, Jack Straw has said that if the US attacks Pakistan, the UK will be forced to declare war on the United States. Of course this is hyperbola, but he's also technically correct.

Oh, I hate to open friendly fire here, but that's change I can believe in. Let's not argue it here, I'll start a second thread.

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Sunday, January 25, 2009 10:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
I'll lose in the Primary, then get a party spot for 2012 or 2013 (we elect judges in off years).

You're one of the types who comes to my table during political shindigs from feb-march on even numbered years as I sit with other commiteemen and gives me a flyer with your pic on it, hoping I and others cacus you onto the ticket. Then we never talk again......unless of course we're later standing in front of you shackled.

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Monday, January 26, 2009 10:59 AM

Removal of the ban on public funding for embryonic stem cell research

Setting national fuel efficiency standards that states cannot opt out of

Incentive program for american auto makers to make more efficient cars.

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Friday, January 30, 2009 8:49 AM

Healthcare for low income kids, looks like it might include prenatal.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/29/AR2009
012900325.html

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Friday, January 30, 2009 3:21 PM

Deposing the president of Afghanistan, and Zimbabwe. Also something Kathy posted that I forgot.

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Friday, January 30, 2009 3:29 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Deposing the president of Afghanistan, and Zimbabwe. Also something Kathy posted that I forgot.

The Lilly Ledbetter Act, from this thread:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=36612

----------
"Pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space, 'cause there's bugger all down here on Earth."

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Friday, January 30, 2009 4:11 PM

Thanks

RUE:

Obama Signs First Piece of Legislation Into Law
Lilly Ledbetter Act Makes It Easier for Workers to Sue for Pay Discrimination

By Debbi Wilgoren, Rich Leiby and DeNeen L. Brown
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, January 29, 2009; 2:49 PM

President Obama this morning signed a law that expands the time frame in which workers can sue for discrimination they have experienced based on gender, race, national origin or religion.

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 5:31 AM

I think we lost track of the changometer. Has there been any?

1 $900B bailout.
2 CEO salary caps for govt. aid recipients
3 special military powers for the sec. of state

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 5:40 AM