V For Vendetta: Slimy Glorification of Terrorism, or Shout Out to the Power of the People? by chrisisall

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

V For Vendetta: Slimy Glorification of Terrorism, or Shout Out to the Power of the People?

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Tuesday, February 3, 2009 05:43
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Monday, February 2, 2009 5:59 PM

I'm curious as to how this film was recieved by Browncoats.
I took it as an action flick that had very serious & deep issues with authoritarian excess, but I could see how some might take it as some kind of sensational anarchist trash (F for Fremdetta, heh heh, I can see AU saying that...

).

So, a discussion on this then?

The masked Chrisisall

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Monday, February 2, 2009 6:25 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Was there a need to rise up ? Seemed like it. Was there a POINT for blowing up Parliament ? Not really. Anarchist love to think they can rally " the people " to stand up and overthrow - something. But afterwards, they have no answers, no plans, nothing to replace the alleged tyranny they just stood up against.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Monday, February 2, 2009 6:47 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Was there a need to rise up ? Seemed like it. Was there a POINT for blowing up Parliament ? Not really. Anarchist love to think they can rally " the people " to stand up and overthrow - something. But afterwards, they have no answers, no plans, nothing to replace the alleged tyranny they just stood up against.

LOL, predictably simple-minded and black & white. I expected no more from you, AURhetoric, and was not disappointed.

Remember remember that you have no ember,
the fire in you has gone out,
it has been replaced
by a great wide big space
that Rush Limbo makes you shout out.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, February 2, 2009 6:56 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Oh go fuck yourself then. You asked, I responded. If you have something intelligent to respond with, then do it , but don't be such a dick head about every god fucking damn thing i post. Why the hell do you have to drag in politics or stuff from other threads when I'm simply giving a straight forward reply to a question YOU started in the first place. Nothing I said had 1 god damn thing about Rush, about W , or about any B.S., I was simply trying to add my 2 cents.

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Monday, February 2, 2009 7:20 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I was simply trying to add my 2 cents.

And that's all it's worth, in this roaring economy.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, February 2, 2009 7:35 PM

CHRISISALL

Wow, in re-reading this I see I've been harsh, abusive, even (although I'm makin' myself LOL- I am a very bad man, as Mal might say), but you gotta know that most every political post I make here is full of set-up for a smackdown at this point, AU.
No hard feelin's, eh?

(Jayne would understand all right...

)

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, February 2, 2009 7:39 PM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:
AURAPTOR
Was there a need to rise up ? Seemed like it. Was there a POINT for blowing up Parliament ? Not really. Anarchist love to think they can rally " the people " to stand up and overthrow - something. But afterwards, they have no answers, no plans, nothing to replace the alleged tyranny they just stood up against.

Rap has a point. I haven't seen the film, but I think the above analysis is sadly usually true. It is worth bearing in mind that the American Revolution was a bunch of anarchists who rose up and overthrew the power and instituted a govt. that in its initial form might have preserved anarchy, which is freedom. As it is, that freedom has eroded over time. But basically, I agree with Rap here.

Unfortunately, then this (I think I kill my own arguments this way sometimes too):

Quote:
Oh go fuck yourself then. You asked, I responded. If you have something intelligent to respond with, then do it , but don't be such a dick head about every god fucking damn thing i post. Why the hell do you have to drag in politics or stuff from other threads when I'm simply giving a straight forward reply to a question YOU started in the first place. Nothing I said had 1 god damn thing about Rush, about W , or about any B.S., I was simply trying to add my 2 cents.

I see though again he has a point, chris, you do oppose everything rap says, rather than take it at face value, and I may have done the same to citizen, a couple things: First, my real reaction to citizen is that if I respond to him he will counter attack endlessly, which wastes my time, and his. Now maybe he doesn't anymore, so perhaps I should give him a chance. But the passed indicated this. However, responding in this fashion never helps the situation. I actually haven't seen rap lose it before, He's usually pretty calm.

Rap, just a note: edit. if you look at the above post, and were to post it upon reflection, i think you would leave this

Quote:
I was simply trying to add my 2 cents.

and possibly this

Quote:
You asked, I responded.

and delete the rest of it.

One thing I miss about AOL mail was "unsend" :)

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Monday, February 2, 2009 7:57 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I actually haven't seen rap lose it before, He's usually pretty calm.

I have.
And I've lost my cool even worse.
But pushing buttons is what I do, darlin'.
What good is living if you can't feel alive?
That's why I'm here, why I love the site Haken set up- you can do ANYTHING, say ANYTHING, and that's a rare thing in these parts.
Look, I think of you all as brothers & sisters here, and when I poke, it's like giving your sibling a bloody nose. Sure they're pissed, but wtf, it's family.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, February 2, 2009 9:19 PM

SERGEANTX

You know, it sort of surprises me to have such a reaction, being such an enthusiastic anarcho/libertarian and all, but I felt the whole thing seemed sort of hollow and not at all a righteous, rebellious act. More like a personal revenge thing. But that could have just been the writing. And the comic book violence seemed overblown and silly to me, but it was based on a comic after all.

Also, I kind of agree with AU too. Perhaps I should see a doctor.

EDIT: Another thing. If you wait until such desperate measures are necessary, how likely is it that people will stand up with you? If the people allow such a fascist state to come about in the first place it seems doubtful they'd find the courage to resort to open rebellion, or even support those who did.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Monday, February 2, 2009 9:44 PM

DREAMTROVE

Chris

1. Don't tag your refs! That kills the geek buzz of those who get them :)

2. "There's no point in living; If you can't feel alive."

3. Shirley Manson says it better in the song than the girl in the move. Shirley plays evil terminator opposite Summer Glau's "good" terminator (we assume) in Sarah Connor Chronicles. It's not flawless, but you should watch :)

4. Great song btw, my fave. bond theme. And it's a great line, which is why I caught it right away.

Sgt. X.

That's just the sort of thing people rebel against. No one rebels against good king wenceslaus, they revolt against tyranny and oppression. To test this theory, go out on to the streets and try to rally the people to overthrow Obama. (maybe in 4 years that will be a different story...) But if Bush had had a third term...

not to politicize, just to point out the absurdity of revolution in the lack of oppression.

If there's no oppression, you can still get revolution out of depression.

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Monday, February 2, 2009 10:13 PM

SERGEANTX

DT,

My point is that a people with enough self-determination to rebel against overreaching authority, will likely do something about the problem before acts of desperate violence are necessary - especially if we're looking at anything like a democratic state. That's why full fledged fascist states tend to form from societies that are beat down and overcome with a sense of powerlessness in the first place.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Monday, February 2, 2009 10:49 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Ayep, Sarge nails it proper - and the adaptation of the work kinda glossed over the fact that V was fucking bonkers any way you sliced it.

Quote:
But afterwards, they have no answers, no plans, nothing to replace the alleged tyranny they just stood up against.

That was the ENTIRE POINT of the comic book, V deliberately did not provide them because to do so just makes you the new boss, same as the old boss, and the very thing you're fighting to smash.

He wasn't gonna do that, no more than I would.

In practice, that doesn't work anyhow - historically Anarchists are downright terrible at building bombs in the first place, even worse at using them effectively, and it's STILL trying to force the hand of folk against their will and contradictory to the very principles of Anarchism in the first damned place.

The movie made him a little smarter and a bit less crackbrained cause he *did* explain that the change needed to come from the people as a whole, he just wanted to "inspire" it - but his personal revenge was a seperate issue which kept hamstringing him cause he just couldn't get past it personally without carrying it out.

And the ending of it, of course, was a groaner to me, there's always ONE giggling fanatic who *will* fire, orders or no, because of inherent racism, nastiness and what have you, hell I can point out one right here in this very thread for ya...

Quote:
Hopefully the dirtbag Hamas scum will learn their place.

Yanno, that thinly veiled rage against anything that conflicts with their precious plastic bubble where reality is what they want it to be, and all that.

And when one fires, everyone fires - and either the mob shatters in flight, or rips them limb from limb, depending on how pissed off they are.

Given that they were the sort who let this shit happen in the first place, that event woulda come apart once the first shot was fired, and in the end, as far as the movie timeline, Dascombe, who survived, would have found himself in charge and continuing the same damned iron-fisted policies afterwords.

That being said, the set up of events leading to the domino scene struck rather powerfully with me, for obvious reasons - but in the end, he could not have fully accomplished his goals without the support of the people, not the mob, so much as the soldiers - he should have turned THEM on Norsefire, if he wanted to get the job done right.

Also, although never explicitly mentioned in the movie, there's a lot of subtle hints that in THAT timeline of events, it's Dominic who's feeding V the information, since they removed other story elements explaining how he got it from the movie.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 4:20 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Ayep, Sarge nails it proper - and the adaptation of the work kinda glossed over the fact that V was fucking bonkers any way you sliced it.

I got that from the movie, but it's obviously more pronounced in the graphic novel (I have not read it).

Quote:

And the ending of it, of course, was a groaner to me

I took it as a fantasy ending; it's what we wish could happen.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 4:38 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
societies that are beat down and overcome with a sense of powerlessness

Bush & Cheney got us closer than I'd like to believe.

The not-laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 4:38 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

For me, blowing up Paliament wasn't so much about blowing up "the government" as it was about destroying the most visible symbol of that oppressive, abusive government. As such, I saw it as not only *A* necessary thing, but THE necessary thing. What else could tell the people, conclusively, that the old order had fallen and been replaced? And there's simply no way that the powers that be can ignore it and pretend it didn't happen, or it didn't mean what it so clearly DID mean.

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 4:53 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
there's simply no way that the powers that be can ignore it and pretend it didn't happen, or it didn't mean what it so clearly DID mean.

Definitely. No 'emergency demolition' spin would work THERE!

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 5:43 AM

DREAMTROVE

Sgt. X.

I'm with you on the economic, but not the political. Revolutions seem to me to come from within, for internal political reasons, rather than from popular discontent. If the revolutionaries had overwhelming popular support, there would be no need to install a dictatorship. Witness the Orange Revolution, which had overwhelming support, and went straight to election, as did most eastern bloc countries.

Something to gnaw on. I'm not sure. I guess my overall take would be that revolution probably says more about the instability of process and loopholes in the structure of govt. than it does about anything else.

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