Anusol for the monkey....... by AURaptor

America loves a winner!

"These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ''The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.''

Choke on it, Chris.

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Tuesday, February 17, 2009 7:02 PM

THEGHOSTOFCHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

And then I told you how it would go AFTER that, again in detail, and again you brushed it off -

You were right Frem, you almost always are. I remember what you said, back to 2005, and that's why I have always followed your posts.
Bitches like *names deleted for purposes of good form* have denied the truth, but I see what you're sayin'.

-V

The almost anarchist now Chrisisall

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Tuesday, February 17, 2009 7:10 PM

THEGHOSTOFCHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
"These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ''The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.''

Choke on it, Chris.

So, Dems can be as*holes as well as Pugs.
*Carmine voice from Die Hard 2*
I gotta lie down!

Eat me, monkeyboy.

I live in Mass, I know who my d**kheads are/were, thank you very much.

Keep praying to your Partisan God, jerkweed.

The loose-tongued Chrisisall

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Tuesday, February 17, 2009 7:40 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Rapo, your continued focus on Fannie and Freddie, which accounted for only about 15% of at-risk mortgages, is as a blind as your focus on non-existent WMD. Fannie and Freddie were already operating under a consent decree even while the toxic-loan inventory was REALLY taking off.

Quote:
Anyone with a room temp. IQ disagrees with both parties deficit spending.

Then you SHOULD have been happy with Billy-boy, because he actually turned Bush's deficit into a surplus. How come I don't hear any kudos for THAT?

------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Tuesday, February 17, 2009 7:42 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:

''The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.''

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Tuesday, February 17, 2009 7:43 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Rapo, your continued focus on Fannie and Freddie, which accounted for only about 15% of at-risk mortgages, is as a blind as your focus on non-existent WMD.

The smallest pebble can start an avalanche.

Selah.

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Tuesday, February 17, 2009 7:50 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
The smallest pebble can start an avalanche.

ONLY IF the system is so unstable that it'll slide with the slightest nudge. And the rest of the system WAS unstable.... even more so than Fannie and Freddie. The reason why Fannie and Freddie got into trouble was not because their loans were too risky but because they were too CONSERVATIVE. Fannie and Freddie were offering their investors only about 0.25% more thanT-bills, which made stockholders unhappy and dropped the share price.

It's complicated. But it's like Hitler, in a way. If the economy in Germany hadn't been so unstable, if resentment against war reparations hadn't been so high, Adolf would have been just a nut-case on a sopa-box.

Same here: IF there hadn't been such an outstanding inventory of bad loans (mostly in banks, not Fannie/Freddie), IF the banks hadn't been allowed to meddle in derivative, CDOS etc (2000), IF the SEC hadn't allowed investment banks to leverage up to the hilt (2004), IF the Federal government wasn't in deficit up to its eyeballs, IF the purchasinsg power of the USA economy wasn't so eroded since 2000 and so heavily based on loans .... THEN the dominoes wouldn't have fallen one right after another.

It could have stopped at Fannie/Freddie. But because the mortgage banks were busy churning out bad loans as fast as they could, it didn't. It could have stopped at mortgage banks w/o spreading to investment banks, but because the mortgage banks were allowed "financial products" with "credit default swaps" it didn't. It COULD have been limited to a financial crisis instead of spreading to the economy, but because economic activity was based so heavily on loans, it didn't. It COULD be taken care of without massive dollar inflation, but because the government ALREADY has a huge deficit... it won't. It could have stopped any one point. but the dominoes were lined up one right after another. The Dems put one domino in place (two, if you go back to Clintons' "free trade" policies) but the Repubs are responsible for the rest.
---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 12:27 AM

America loves a winner!

Time has its own list of 25 who are responsible for the economic melt down. Bush and Clinton both fall somewhere in the middle, right next to each other.

Make of it what you will.

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/0,28757,1877351,00.html

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 2:38 AM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
"These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ''The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.''

Choke on it, Chris.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

A concern of the GOP is that the people aren't informed enough to understand their policies, while a fear of the Dems is that the people WILL understand.

You continue to bring up that quote. When was it said? At the time it was said, wasn't the economy "on fire", even according to YOU?

And what was it your beloved Bushie told us to do?

"Go shopping."

Looks like HE orchestrated it.

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 2:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
Not to discount Frem's undeniable soothsaying, but really, outside the DC circle jerk, most of America knew it was coming - even if they couldn't bring themselves to say it. When banks are handing out pre-approved credit cards at college keg parties and someone making 40k can get a loan on a $350k house with no money down, well it wasn't too tough to make the call.

What really pisses me off, is that plenty of us had the sense not to sign on the dotted line, and we ought to be rewarded for that good sense. We ought to be picking up houses for a song and laughing at the "upwardly mobile" asshats who thought they had it all figured out, flipping their houses every two years and floating everything. "Letting it ride" is fine if you're willing to take your lumps when you lose. But that's not the way we roll in the good ole USA these days. You takes your chances and when you lose you get taxpayers to write it off. Fuck that.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

Right you are, Sarge - and instead of reaping any kind of benefit, our reward for NOT being schmucks is that we get to help pay for the schmucks' party. Makes ya wonder why you even tried to do the right thing and live within your means, don't it?

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 2:44 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

That's a great list. Brilliant people from all walks and political affiliations. It's a snapshot of the current state of human ethical evolution. Let's face it, right now we blow.

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 2:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Time has its own list of 25 who are responsible for the economic melt down. Bush and Clinton both fall somewhere in the middle, right next to each other.

Make of it what you will.

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/0,28757,1877351,00.html

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

A concern of the GOP is that the people aren't informed enough to understand their policies, while a fear of the Dems is that the people WILL understand.

Yes, I would agree that Bush was right in the middle of the meltdown.

Also, let me get this on record: Are you now citing Time Magazine as a legitimate news source? I just want to know for future reference, so if I use them as a source, I don't have to listen to your partisan whining about "oh, they're in the tank for the Dems, they're a left-wing rag, blahbuhdeeblahblahblah..."

So do you accept Time Magazine as an unbiased source?

Also, you dodged Signy's question: Where's the kudos for Clinton's budget surplus? Where's the love for the guy who turned a huge deficit into a surplus? Seems like you would have LOVED that guy, since you're sooooooo "conservative".

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 3:05 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Oddly, this means nothing to me.

Did I fail a pop-culture test or something?

Yes. Short lived remake of bionic woman last year...bionic woman was a spin-off of the Six Million Dollar Man.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Six_Million_Dollar_Man

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bionic_Woman

I was going to mention NIMH too...since we're talking about mice.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 3:19 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Time has its own list of 25 who are responsible for the economic melt down. Bush and Clinton both fall somewhere in the middle, right next to each other.

Yes, and I have repeatedly pointed to them. You may recall me mentioning Phil Gramm and his lovely (Enron) wife Wendy a time or two or three? Or the unrealistically low interest rates which caused the bubble (Greenspan)? Or greedy, shortsighted banksters (Countrywide)? Or the decision by the SEC (Cox) to allow higher leverage for investment firms, to be audited by.... the investment firms themselves? But no matter which names you pin this mess on, it all comes down to just a few core ideas:

Deregulation. Because as anyone knows business can be counted on to regulate itself.

Low interest rates. That could let borrowing go on... forever!

Trickle-down. Because the wealthy will "create jobs" (even if no demand for product is in sight!)

Free trade. Let business be unfettered in its worldwide pursuit of maximum profits.

FYI- the order in which the names appear have nothing to do with how guilty one person is over another.

---------------------------------
Since you won't supply the credit that's due Clinton (I know, it would kill you) let me say it for you: YAAAAAAY for Clinton for turning a deficit into a surplus!

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 3:23 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
"These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ''The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.''

Choke on it, Chris.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

A concern of the GOP is that the people aren't informed enough to understand their policies, while a fear of the Dems is that the people WILL understand.

You continue to bring up that quote. When was it said? At the time it was said, wasn't the economy "on fire", even according to YOU?

And what was it your beloved Bushie told us to do?

"Go shopping."

Looks like HE orchestrated it.
Mike

The economy WAS doing better, when Barney Frank said that, but that's besides the point. W and the GOP were trying to solve an issue BEFORE it got to critical mass. The Dems stopped that, and we got to where we are today because of that. Why the hell are you being so dense about this ?

Also, per the Time blame game, I said Bush was in the MIDDLE of the list, as in down the list , from the top, which is where most of the blame is placed. W is down , just behind Bill Clinton, in terms of those responsible.

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 3:24 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Yes, I would agree that Bush was right in the middle of the meltdown.

True. But he had lots of company on both sides. His biggest role in the meltdown came from his failure to properly oversee the system, failure to make his tax cuts permanent, and his bank bailout.

Democrats, mostly Congress, but also Clinton (and not a few Republicans) have their parts to play. It was a Clinton-Democrat plan that made banks give loans to people without the ability to pay. It was the Democrats who stiffled warnings and continued to tout the stability of the system even as late of last August. Democrats in Congress had oversight of the system during the most critcal period leading up to today.

Lets not forget the American people. Not all of them but rather those who took loans without the ability to pay or without understanding what they were doing.

Lots of blame...all sides.

Me, I'm not to blame. I used the Bush years to finish my education and get a good job. I make more then double (almost triple) what I did in 2002. I bought a house I can afford. I have a plan that includes lots of money...not credit...cash (I also have an Excellent credit score). I pay my bills...all my bills. This year I plan to buy a new car since the lease on my '06 Jeep is running out. I saw this coming...planned for it and have plenty of cash available to buy just about anything I want within reason. 0% interest rocks. So me...not to blame.

I remember when I bought my house a couple years back. I sat down, figured out what I could afford and started looking. When I went to the Bank they pre-approved me for $60,000 more then I wanted. I briefly considered that maybe they were smarter and better able to know what I could afford then me. In the end I trusted my own instincts.

Quote:

Also, you dodged Signy's question: Where's the kudos for Clinton's budget surplus? Where's the love for the guy who turned a huge deficit into a surplus? Seems like you would have LOVED that guy, since you're sooooooo "conservative".

Clinton's budget surplus was not there in 1993 or 1994. It came AFTER Republicans took control and enforced financial responsibility on him. They let Bush screw that up, but there is little doubt the Clinton economy was really the Republican Congress economy.

As for the surplus. If you recall the 2000 election it was always a "projected surplus". Bush and Gore both spent that money in their plans in many different ways. Problem with projecting a surplus through 2010 was they spent money that had not come in yet. If you recall the economic problems of 2001 started in 1998 with the tech meltdown, continued into 1999 and 2000 with the first energy spikes, and then we had Sept 11, not to mention the ongoing accounting scandals from 1998-2005, the war, and so on. What I learned from that period was not to spend money until its in the bank. My tax return comes Friday...I wont spend it till the check clears, then I'm getting my new car.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 3:36 AM

America loves a winner!

Deregulation : Bush and the GOP were actually trying to REGULATE Fannie and Freddie more, back in '03. It was Barney Frank who was keeping that from happening.

Low Interest Rates : Greenspan's recipe for just about everything, it seems. Helped the Clinton economy out a good bit too.

Trickle down : The poor sure as hell never gave anyone a job. Silly to point the finger of blame here.

Free Trade: Yes, maximize profits, I agree 100 % . But make sure the deals are done legally. That's the key point.

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 4:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:
Jong, it's not as bad as it looks...

You're right, it's actually much, much, much worse. I appreciate that you chose to respond to my post, but you only addressed a point or two that I made, and it's interesting that Hero and Auraptor had little or no response. Truth & reality is a bitch. I guess it's easier to just dig in your heels and continue the same old tired arguments THAT DON'T WORK ANYMORE, than face the obvious reality. Our Party is dead. Dead, dead, dead. We have NO hope for anything in the future as I see it. We have no channels of communication to get our message out, whatever the hell that is these days, no internet fund-raising skills, no grass roots skills, etc etc. All the Obama-Dem. liberal/terrorist/socialist rhetoric didn't do squat, except to make matters worse. If you believe that Rush Lumbaugh or Sean Hannity are going to lead the opposition to Obama, and become the "voice" of Republicans in any kind of successful way, then you're not seeing it as I do. Even if a "new breed" of a re-born Republican Conservative emerges from the ashes, I don't see how that person could ever get a message out, without it being attacked, ridiculed, marginalized, charicaturized, and destroyed with all the media weapons the Left now has firmly established in its' arsenal. And what the hell is a Republican anymore? Is Bill Kristol a Republican?; or George Will? They are absolutley nothing like Newt or Rove. They are LIBERAL Republicans. Then we have the traitorous RINOS....Spector, Collins, Snow, and of course the biggest idiot/media whore/ betrayer of the party, John McCain. Quite a pathetic party I'd say.

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 4:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Oddly, this means nothing to me.

Did I fail a pop-culture test or something?

Yes. Short lived remake of bionic woman last year...bionic woman was a spin-off of the Six Million Dollar Man.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Six_Million_Dollar_Man

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bionic_Woman

I was going to mention NIMH too...since we're talking about mice.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

Oh - Starbuck. You could have just said "Starbuck". I probably wouldn't have even thought you were talking about overpriced coffee!

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 5:06 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
,,,, and it's interesting that Hero and Auraptor had no response. I guess it's easier to just dig in your heels and continue the same old tired arguments THAT DON'T WORK ANYMORE, than face the obvious reality.

I can't respond to that which I didn't see in the first place. Sorry, I got no idea what you're talking about.

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 5:10 AM

SERGEANTX

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
... Makes ya wonder why you even tried to do the right thing and live within your means, don't it?

Ayup. And, though I make quite a bit of noise about there being no difference between the two parties in terms of net policy, this is one area where I wish the Democrats would listen to Republicans. Incentives DO matter. If the overall perception is that people won't, ultimately, suffer (or benefit from) the results of their decisions, they won't worry much about prudent decision making in the first place.

If, on the other hand, some of these banks actually failed, if their shareholders actually lost their asses, if the complacent car companies were allowed to fail (because they have), if we got over this "too big to fail" bullshit, if we made it perfectly clear that when you make important financial decisions you're "playing for keeps", we could avoid a lot of the nonsense we're dealing with now.

But that's not how Dems want to play. They want to bail everyone out and then use regulation to force them toward their version of "prudent" decision making. Problem is, regulation is just a game that lawyers play. It's rarely any good at achieving its idealistic goals - and that's assuming the goals are worth a shit in the first place. At least as far as the economy goes, regulation is a poor substitute for reality.

We seem to want the benefits of the free market without the downsides. History has shown the seemingly insurmountable difficulty in running a full-blown centrally planned economy. But a free market won't work either if you don't let it run its course. Apparently we don't have the stomach for that. Which puts us sort of between a rock and hard place.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 5:22 AM

SERGEANTX

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Deregulation. Because as anyone knows business can be counted on to regulate itself...

(see my post above)
Regulation can be used effectively to stop swindles and maintain an appropriate amount of transparency. But it's not the way to "encourage" business to make better decisions. It's a little frustrating to see Dems attempting to use this scandal as an argument against deregulation as a general concept. Bad laws need to go, and good laws should be created to address new situations.

Quote:
Free trade. Let business be unfettered in its worldwide pursuit of maximum profits.
[

And here you do the same thing. Our nation's blind support of corporate power, even to the point of using our military to support their interests, isn't free trade. Selective deregulation that let's corporations "lie, cheat, and steal" isn't free trade - it's just stupid.

Laying these kinds of bad decisions at the feet of "free trade" is disingenuous and politically opportunistic.

If you want to make the case for why free trade is bad as a general concept, do it. Tell us why we should lock down the economy and have the government run it instead. How's that gonna work? I'm honestly curious. Centrally planned economies have proven incredibly difficult to run efficiently in the past, do think that now, with modern technologies (computers and the like), we can pull it off?

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 6:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I can't respond to that which I didn't see in the first place. Sorry, I got no idea what you're talking about.

What I'm talking about is YOU. What I'm talking about is Hannity & Limbaugh. You bash Dems and Obama like you won the election or something. Are you NOT aware of the Republican debacle that occurred in 2006 & 2008? You're all still on the old treadmill of Republican talking points that don't work. Maybe you can impress some in a debate forum, but in the real world your clinging to a Party and an ideology will never get Republicans back into power. The entire RNC is an embarrassment, and these talking heads only further damage the cause with their Democratesque obstuctionism and demonization. All of a sudden Republicans give a damn about fiscal responsibility? Now that's funny!

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 6:09 AM

Quote:

The economy WAS doing better, when Barney Frank said that, but that's besides the point. W and the GOP were trying to solve an issue BEFORE it got to critical mass. The Dems stopped that, and we got to where we are today because of that. Why the hell are you being so dense about this ?

And Bush exhorting everybody to just "Go shopping" was piling on more credit and more debt, encouraging rampant spending that couldn't be maintained or paid for. The economy wasn't "doing better" - it had the APPEARANCE of doing better, with nothing holding it up but balloons of fasle money and deficit spending - at the very top of which was the Defense budget, which while already by far the largest part of the Federal budget, STILL wasn't enough to cover the occupation of Iraq, for which Bush routinely asked for hundreds of billions of ADDITIONAL dollars - which had to be borrowed, of course.

Meanwhile, rampant deregulation of nearly EVERY industry, from airlines and telecoms to banking, securities, stocks, defense contractors, energy companies, etc., led to widespread fraud, cooked books, accounting scandals, and more. So while you claim that Bush was trying to regulate Fannie and Freddie, he was on a Reaganistic frenzy in trying to deregulate everything else, which all got piled one on top of the other, until the whole house of cards couldn't do anything BUT topple.

Why are you being so dense about this?

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 7:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I can't respond to that which I didn't see in the first place. Sorry, I got no idea what you're talking about.

What I'm talking about is YOU. What I'm talking about is Hannity & Limbaugh. You bash Dems and Obama like you won the election or something. Are you NOT aware of the Republican debacle that occurred in 2006 & 2008? You're all still on the old treadmill of Republican talking points that don't work. Maybe you can impress some in a debate forum, but in the real world your clinging to a Party and an ideology will never get Republicans back into power. The entire RNC is an embarrassment, and these talking heads only further damage the cause with their Democratesque obstuctionism and demonization. All of a sudden Republicans give a damn about fiscal responsibility? Now that's funny!

Jongs, you're onto something.

There was a time I would eagerly have supported McCain for president (2000) had he been the Republican nominee, because I felt at the time that he was a better choice by far than Al Gore. McCain and the GOP screwed that away, though.

The right-wingers I run into seem convinced that the ONLY way to get noticed is by going far, FAR right. That isn't a direction that's going to work out very well for them, any more than the left going far, FAR left - which it is nowhere near doing.

The "happy medium" lies somewhere in the middle, in meeting to work things out and compromise, not in bashing each other over the head with deck chairs while the Titanic heads inexorably towards that pretty, pretty iceberg...

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 8:19 AM

Quote:

Trickle down : The poor sure as hell never gave anyone a job. Silly to point the finger of blame here.

Actually, that's dead wrong. You want proof? Welfare. SOMEONE has to work at the welfare office handing out checks and government cheese, nicht wahr? ("Is it not so?").

You ever notice that the welfare department is a perpetual-motion machine, and a Catch-22 at the same time? Its job is to get everyone off welfare - which, if it ever achieves that goal, all its employees will be out of work... and thus have to go on welfare.

Just somethin' to ponder, and lighten the mood a bit.

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 8:29 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"So while you claim that Bush was trying to regulate Fannie and Freddie ..."

Yes, and amazingly it was back in 2003 (or 2001, 2004 or 2005, depending on revisionist history source), when the repubicans had ALL branches of government. And he STILL couldn't get it done. (The real president - President Barney Frank - was gettin' in the way don'cha know.

)

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 8:41 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Oh - Starbuck. You could have just said "Starbuck".

Dirk Benedict is Starbuck. Sure, that little blonde girl might be able to kick his ass in a fair fight...but he'd clean her clock in a game of pyramid, steal her cigars, drink her alcohol, make love to her, all before stealing her viper to take her place on a dangerous patrol.

http://www.dirkbenedictcentral.com/Starbuckpg.html

Course he's get shot down on that patrol and either end up rescuing lost children or lost ambrosia...before coming home to make love to his space-hooker turned nurse girlfriend who WAS the hottest girl on the old Galactica...cept maybe the chick who ran launch control.

Were was I? Oh...stimulas plan, bad. Lorne Greene, good.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 10:53 AM

Quote:
Lorne Greene, good.

You mean Lorne, the green guy from Pylea on Angel?

Yeah, he was good.

That other guy is dead.

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 11:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Dirk Benedict is Starbuck.

Dirk Benedict, Richard Hatch, Herb Jefferson JR., and Anne Lockhart are ALL going to be at MegaCon in Orlando next weekend! Also, the lovely Melody Anderson will be there(Brenda Maxwell from "Experiment In Terra"). That's quite a reunion for the 1978 Galacticans.

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 11:10 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Dirk Benedict, Richard Hatch, Herb Jefferson JR., and Anne Lockhart are ALL going to be at MegaCon in Orlando next weekend! Also, the lovely Melody Anderson will be there(Brenda Maxwell from "Experiment In Terra").

Why don't they shoot a new episode while they're all together?

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 11:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Dirk Benedict, Richard Hatch, Herb Jefferson Jr., and Anne Lockhart are ALL going to be at MegaCon in Orlando next weekend! Also, the lovely Melody Anderson will be there(Brenda Maxwell from "Experiment In Terra").
Why don't they shoot a new episode while they're all together?

Why not indeed!
The originals: Apollo, Starbuck, Boomer, & Sheba all in one room again. Even Count Iblis couldn't arrange that miracle by himself.

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 11:42 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Dirk Benedict is Starbuck. Sure, that little blonde girl might be able to kick his ass in a fair fight...but he'd clean her clock in a game of pyramid, steal her cigars, drink her alcohol, make love to her, all before stealing her viper to take her place on a dangerous patrol.

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 11:50 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"So while you claim that Bush was trying to regulate Fannie and Freddie ..."

Yes, and amazingly it was back in 2003 (or 2001, 2004 or 2005, depending on revisionist history source), when the repubicans had ALL branches of government. And he STILL couldn't get it done. (The real president - President Barney Frank - was gettin' in the way don'cha know. )

.

Zero revisionism going on by my part, to be sure. It's ignorance ( feigned or not ) on your part which has you confounded. Barney Frank and the Dems needed only to dig in their heels, as the GOP did NOT have the " control " you claim they did. Which only figures. You don't want to deal with details and facts which disrupt your well estalbished template.

New Agency Proposed to Oversee Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae

By Stephen Labaton

September 11, 2003

The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago.

Under the plan, disclosed at a Congressional hearing today, a new agency would be created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored companies that are the two largest players in the mortgage lending industry.

The new agency would have the authority, which now rests with Congress, to set one of the two capital-reserve requirements for the companies. It would exercise authority over any new lines of business. And it would determine whether the two are adequately managing the risks of their ballooning portfolios.

The plan is an acknowledgment by the administration that oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — which together have issued more than $1.5 trillion in outstanding debt — is broken. A report by outside investigators in July concluded that Freddie Mac manipulated its accounting to mislead investors, and critics have said Fannie Mae does not adequately hedge against rising interest rates.

”There is a general recognition that the supervisory system for housing-related government-sponsored enterprises neither has the tools, nor the stature, to deal effectively with the current size, complexity and importance of these enterprises,” Treasury Secretary John W. Snow told the House Financial Services Committee in an appearance with Housing Secretary Mel Martinez, who also backed the plan.

Significant details must still be worked out before Congress can approve a bill. Among the groups denouncing the proposal today were the National Association of Home Builders and Congressional Democrats who fear that tighter regulation of the companies could sharply reduce their commitment to financing low-income and affordable housing. ”These two entities — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — are not facing any kind of financial crisis,” said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ”The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.” Representative Melvin L. Watt, Democrat of North Carolina, agreed. ”I don’t see much other than a shell game going on here, moving something from one agency to another and in the process weakening the bargaining power of poorer families and their ability to get affordable housing,” Mr. Watt said.

Then, there was this attempt....

Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005

The United States Senate May 25, 2006 Sen. John McCain [R-AZ]: Mr. President, this week Fannie Mae’s regulator reported that the company’s quarterly reports of profit growth over the past few years were “illusions deliberately and systematically created” by the company’s senior management, which resulted in a $10.6 billion accounting scandal. The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight’s report goes on to say that Fannie Mae employees deliberately and intentionally manipulated financial reports to hit earnings targets in order to trigger bonuses for senior executives. In the case of Franklin Raines, Fannie Mae’s former chief executive officer, OFHEO’s report shows that over half of Mr. Raines’ compensation for the 6 years through 2003 was directly tied to meeting earnings targets. The report of financial misconduct at Fannie Mae echoes the deeply troubling $5 billion profit restatement at Freddie Mac. The OFHEO report also states that Fannie Mae used its political power to lobby Congress in an effort to interfere with the regulator’s examination of the company’s accounting problems. This report comes some weeks after Freddie Mac paid a record $3.8 million fine in a settlement with the Federal Election Commission and restated lobbying disclosure reports from 2004 to 2005. These are entities that have demonstrated over and over again that they are deeply in need of reform.

For years I have been concerned about the regulatory structure that governs Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac–known as Government-sponsored entities or GSEs–and the sheer magnitude of these companies and the role they play in the housing market. OFHEO’s report this week does nothing to ease these concerns. In fact, the report does quite the contrary. OFHEO’s report solidifies my view that the GSEs need to be reformed without delay. I join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190, to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole. I urge my colleagues to support swift action on this GSE reform legislation.

The Democrats killed this measure in Committee preventing the full Senate Vote.
http://bellalu0.wordpress.com/2008/09/17/bush-and-mccain-proposed-over
sight-of-fannie-mae-and-freddie-mac/

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 12:36 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Also, per the Time blame game, I said Bush was in the MIDDLE of the list, as in down the list , from the top, which is where most of the blame is placed. W is down , just behind Bill Clinton, in terms of those responsible.

Doofus. If you "vote" your opinion, you get to "See" the average results. Just going down the list as presented, the values go like... 7, 9, 2, 5, 8. IE NOT in order.

If I ever had any doubts about your reading comprehension, those doubts have been laid to rest.

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 12:39 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:

If I ever had any doubts about your reading comprehension, those doubts have been laid to rest.

You were far more charitable with him than I was in this regard.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 12:56 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
Also, per the Time blame game, I said Bush was in the MIDDLE of the list, as in down the list , from the top, which is where most of the blame is placed. W is down , just behind Bill Clinton, in terms of those responsible.
Doofus. If you "vote" your opinion, you get to "See" the average results. Just going down the list as presented, the values go like... 7, 9, 2, 5, 8. IE NOT in order.

If I ever had any doubts about your reading comprehension, those doubts have been laid to rest.

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

I never claimed such was the case. You doth argue a non issue.

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 12:58 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:

If I ever had any doubts about your reading comprehension, those doubts have been laid to rest.

You were far more charitable with him than I was in this regard.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

Funny, seeing you folks post over a non issue, when you actively ignore anything/ everything written which shows exactly what I say Bush did, in trying to set up regulations to rein in Fannie and Freddie. Video links don't even clue your myrmidons in either. Y'all are the hopeless class.

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 1:01 PM

OUT2THEBLACK

The Kleptocrat Elitists jetting off should be a clue , even for the slow kids...

And the RE-R.I.P. is not going to work , not by any stretch of imagination...

All it will do is hasten the descent and exacerbate the crash at the end...

'...In truth, Geithner did us all a big favor on Tuesday by exposing himself as a stooge of the banking industry. Now everyone can see that the banks are working the deal from the inside. Geithner has assembled a phalanx of Wall Street flim-flam men to fill out the roster at Treasury. "His chief-of-staff is lobbyist from Goldman Sachs. The new deputy secretary of state is a former CEO of Citigroup. Another CFO from Citigroup is now assistant to the president, and deputy national security adviser for International Economic Affairs. And one of his deputies also came from Citigroup. One new member of the president's Economic Recovery Advisory Board comes from UBS, which is currently being investigated for helping rich clients evade taxes." The Obama White House is a beehive of big money guys and Wall Street speculators whose only goal is to nuzzle up to the public trough while strengthening their grip on political power.'

http://informationclearinghouse.info/article22025.htm

" I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending ,
on the objects of benevolence , the money of their constituents."- -- James Madison

" The real destroyer of the liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations and benefits."
-- Plutarch - (c.45-125 A.D.)

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 1:12 PM

OUT2THEBLACK

“The foundation of all Mental Illness is the unwillingness to experience legitimate suffering.” Carl Jung

' ...The combined government & media sources of the world tell the tale of whole countries sitting on the edge of fiscal insolvency; civil unrest now becoming commonplace; starvation & suicide deaths soaring; staggering rises in unemployment; food shortages; rising threats & escalating wars. In my country (USA), the stories are the same…maybe 46 of 50 States, 80% of US cities & 2 of 3 US banks are fiscally insolvent; likely 1 of 5 workers unemployed or working part-time (due to lack of suitable employment); home foreclosures up 80% in 2008 (worse yet expected in 2009); the rise in homelessness expected to soon use up available resources; up to 1 in 6 go to bed hungry; likely 40% of States discussing possible secession options & Federal Government committing to unconstitutional use of US troops to quell expected civil disobedience or to enforce US sovereignty over the States. In spite of all of this, the majority of my fellow citizens seem to believe that we will somehow just be okay; that we are somehow more honorable & moral than everyone else.

Reality would seem to indicate that this is simply not true; that genuine hope lies only in the compassionate truth that our old, corrupt system of leadership & lies must die in order for honest resolution to occur. A monstrous lie, which is our silence to injustice, violence & racism, now covers my country like a thick fog. Though the preponderance of evidence would show us to be ‘freemen who have chosen slavery’ (Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn), our ‘absurd deafness’ (Henri Nouwen) thinks it prudent to overestimate our status & to overlook the fact that we have allowed our corrupt leaders to lead us into ‘purposeful, pre-planned recessions & wars, theft of the world’s wealth, selling of drugs & laundering of drug resources, repressing dissent (to avoid exposure), convincing the populace that we are moral & honorable, & committing genocide to maintain an illusion of control’ (Mike Ruppert, Jenna Orkin, Paul Craig Roberts, David M. Walker, Michel Chossudovsky, Ron Paul, Cynthia McKinney, John Pilger, Jonathan Cook, Stephen Lendman). Oh, that this were not true!

The Day of Reckoning for the USA is nigh at hand. Soon…our lights will go out, our economy will come to a screeching halt (when our oil supply is no longer able to be financed, due to the world losing confidence in us or no longer being willing to bow to our arrogance), chaos will become the law of our land & greater, mass death will be perpetrated on our citizenry. Soon…we will reap the due consequences of what we have allowed to be sown on our greater world. '

http://informationclearinghouse.info/article22031.htm

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 1:12 PM

FREMDFIRMA

I'm surprised nobody called me on what I thought was a patently obvious chain-yanker, although yes, I did call this one pretty damn close well in advance.

Jong, I do think you're onto something there, perhaps a bit biased, and with a sour grape aftertaste, but that don't mean you're wrong neither.

The modern day republicans have totally fucked themselves by abandoning core conservative principles like fiscal responsibility and limited intervention both economically and militarily, while practicing a radical conservatism to appeal to the darkest fringe of the religious right.

That was suicidally idiotic, and the absolutely crowning moment of that kind of stupidity was sending Bolton to the UN, whos inexplicable and inexcusable behavior and belligerence firmly assured that NO one there is gonna back us up for a long long time...

Sure, they're corrupt as hell, but we really coulda used a hand, or even dumped it into THEIR lap to deal with and let THEM take the blame for what was GOING to happen as soon as you removed Saddam from power.

But done is done, and you are quite correct that in essence, the republican party as you knew it is all but dead.

Me, I wanna finish it off, cause what's left, even if it ever does rise again, is gonna be some twisted zombie-vampire version of it carrying all the flaws and none of the redeeming qualities of the original, and as such I think we'd all feel just a little bit better staking it and laying it to rest before that happens.

And as I pointed out before, if you get your shit together NOW, and get a viable third party up and running, or even a decent, functional coalition of the ones we already have, flawed or not - people are gonna get sick of democrat bullshit pretty quick and start lookin for other options when the next elections roll around.

Me, I wanna be there with a candidate, plan of action, and the personnel and infrastructure to get it done quickly and efficiently, even if I may not agree with their entire platform, so long as I believe it will bring a net benefit to our country and our people.

A MUCH smarter idea than cuddling up to the corpse of a dead and rotting party while pretending Palin is tinkerbell and if you clap your hands and BELIEVE just hard enough....

Pffth, the american people ain't got time for faery tales, and it's pretty obvious the democrats and business is usual ain't gonna pull us outta this tailspin, so wouldn't it really be a better idea to get our shit together NOW, while we've got the jump on it and no one, not even the democrats (too busy celebrating their "victory" - as if pushing over a corpse is some kinda win?), is gonna give thought to sabotaging or opposing it until much closer to election time, at which point we'll be ready for it ?

We can DO this, but it does mean surrendering certain treasured illusions, which you obviously have.

Let's get it on, ehe ?
Done right, they won't know what hit them.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 1:37 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Rap

108th Congress (2003-2004)
House Seats

227 Republicans
205 Democrats
2 vacant House Seats
1 Independent

Remember Dennis Hastert ? House Majority leader in 2003 ? Or have you forgotten so quickly ?

108th Congress (2003-2005)
Senate Seats

Majority Party: Republican (51 seats)
Minority Party: Democrat (48 seats)
Other Parties: Independent (1 seat)

And Bill Frist was Senate Majority leader. Ahhh, who could forget Bill, diagnosing Terry Schiavo by remote in the Senate.

And WHO was the pres'dent at the time ? I dunno, Rap, you tell me. It slips my mind.

***************************************************************

I know ! It was Barney Frank !

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 1:39 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Funny, seeing you folks post over a non issue, when you actively ignore anything/ everything written which shows exactly what I say Bush did, in trying to set up regulations to reign in Fannie and Freddie.

I have posted ad infinitum about Fannie and Freddie. Kudos to Bush for trying to rein them in. That was the one good thing that he "tried". Too bad he didn't succeed despite the fact the Repubs had control of Congress.

But bad on Bush for setting up the rest of the dominoes. Even if he had succeeded with Fannie and Freddie, our economy would still be catastrophic. The income spread- which Bush encouraged- would still make us dependent on debt to prop up consumption. Lehman would still have failed. Countrywide and IndyMac would still be in the shitter. Scams would still have rune rampant on Wall Street. The panic would still have gone global. We would STILL be facing a deficit.

Now, you can't even muster up the balls to say "good on Bill" for reversing the deficit trend? All you can do is "sour grapes" about how it was only a "projected" surplus?

Sheesh!

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 1:41 PM

America loves a winner!

Not enough to over rule their votes, but nice try. Read the articles, rue. Most of these attempts to regulate never even made it out of committee! So spare me the head count, I'm just telling you how it really is.

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 1:43 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
And as I pointed out before, if you get your shit together NOW, and get a viable third party up and running, or even a decent, functional coalition of the ones we already have, flawed or not - people are gonna get sick of democrat bullshit pretty quick and start lookin for other options when the next elections roll around.

Good point. Support the candidates you can support. Push for the actions you can stand by. Out of the ashes....

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 1:45 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Not to mention that good ole' Bush forbade states attorneys general from going after lending agencies making predatory loans, and lowered capitalization requirements on investment banks. ALL of this was to keep the loans flowing to give the APPEARANCE of a healthy economy. Which Rap fell for - it was ROARING - wasn't it Rap ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 1:47 PM