Anarchist Traffic Control ? by Fremdfirma

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Anarchist Traffic Control ?

POSTED BY: FREMDFIRMA
UPDATED: Thursday, February 19, 2009 22:30
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VIEWED: 948
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Thursday, February 19, 2009 10:55 AM

I kid thee not, it seems to work better!
Case in point: Hans Monderman

The Traffic Guru
http://www.wilsoncenter.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=wq.essay&essay_id=462
572

Sign Sign everywhere a sign
Blocking out the scenery breaking my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign

-F

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Thursday, February 19, 2009 11:19 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Ok, Frem...I finally got to ask... Anarchy? Really?

As far as I can see, (and I admit its not far), Anarchy just ends up with Rwanda/Kosovo/ and whatever other 3rd world horror-show is out there...so whats the deal? I mean it all ends with the guys with the most gun, cutting off the hands and feet of those weaker than them.

Im all for a little blood-letting, as it cleans the system...but continuous? You just drain everyone dry.

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Thursday, February 19, 2009 11:26 AM

DREAMTROVE

Wulf,

learn to read

The assailants in both cases were the govt.

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Thursday, February 19, 2009 11:26 AM

DREAMTROVE

double post

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Thursday, February 19, 2009 11:37 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Sorry. I was speaking to the idea of the Anarchist movement in general.

Seriously. Im not trying to get on anyones case. But, anarchy has its place. Yes we need it. But if we follow it to its conclusion...hands/feet gone..ect. Africa is in anarchy and its shit.

So Im looking for someone to tell me why I should say its a good thing.

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Thursday, February 19, 2009 11:47 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

There's a difference between anarchy such as 'the total breakdown of society during economic insufficiency' and anarchy as 'a group of economically secure people with common goals, standards and assumptions doing without a small subset of rules'.

My take on the example is that it depends quite a bit on several factors such as: a small area; a small, homogenous, secure and stable population; and a larger society with a larger set of rules that maintains the economy and infrastructure. These essential differences decide if you end up with Rwanda or a small-town traffic system.

Oh, those differences are just off the top of my head - if I thought longer I'd come up with more.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Thursday, February 19, 2009 3:05 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Why thank you once again, M'lady.

Yeah, the essential difference is that Anarchy is *voluntary*, and what happened in Rwanda and others was the collapse of government, plunging folks who WANTED social order of that type into chaos, usually right after disarming them, and leaving a shitload of pissed off ex-gov and ex-mil thugs both armed to the teeth and without a leash to become the NEW "government".

Big difference, that.

Resource management, although not necessarily economics is a part of that.

It's also why I have such an issue with "Anarchists" who wanna throw down the social order, cause to force anarchism on the unwilling defeats the entire purpose and just makes you the new boss, same as the old boss...

We don't have to destroy Government, just outgrow it - once we do so, even the IDEA of acting in the fashion the warlords do would be as repulsive as the concept of infanticide or cannibalism, and those who act in such fashion would be outcast in short order by folks who, humane that they are, would voluntarily cooperate in hunting them to the ends of the earth in mutual self-defense of themselves and those weaker.

It's the same mindset which, although passionately denied to exist, I have pointed out exists even HERE, in even this society - people whom do not kneel, will not submit, even unarmed, to threats because they simply don't have it in them to do so.

Now imagine just how HARD it would be, for a petty warlord, if damn near EVERYONE was like that, and many of them were comparably armed.

It *ain't* the weapons, it's the minds and hearts, if you were to ship half a million AK-47's to Rwanda, it wouldn't change a damn thing any more than handing a battered wife a revolver her own fear prevents her from using.

Warlordism wouldn't stand a chance without the ability to inspire anything but passionate loathing, you understand ?

-Frem
EDIT: Useful linkage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_law

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Thursday, February 19, 2009 3:32 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Also there is the difference between legal bonds and social bonds.

Dissolving the LEGAL bonds between people would in no way have that profound an affect on the SOCIAL bonds between folk.

If anything, it would strengthen them, because without big-daddy gov to go running to, we really would have to rely on either other, and moochers and sandbaggers would get short shrift from the community.

But I will say in the defense of those perceived to be only because they are trapped in a system where the rules forbid them from improving their lot with steep penalties (like how welfare or public assistance DRASTICALLY penalises any attempt to re-enter the workforce) many of whom can be of substantial assistance to a community without hard and fast rules.

For example, enlist the town drunk with cleaning the local park, provided that he WALKS to work, nobody's going to be much bothered by his drinking, especially with the pride of accomplishment and support for breaking the habit any time he wishes to accept it.

Or moms with a passel of kids, now free to teach basic reading and math without the REQUIREMENT of years of college and a debt load so insane it's a wonder anyone bothers.

The ability to learn from anyone willing to teach you - instead of reams of forms, wasted time, huge loads of debt and mandatory ass kissing would put more skills into the community overall, it's always been my way with the kids who have scooters, if they have the time, to TEACH them how to do a basic carb clean the first time I do one for them, and the wisdom of elders passed on at the same time, as often as not - for kids to accept, question and measure before accepting into their own values or not as they choose.

These bonds would remain, even be strengthened, eventually evolving into a loose clan or tribe social structure based on a community.

But the foundation of folks willing to give up Government is the most basic requirement for it to happen - something which our current society and public education system is downright *determined* to prevent at all costs.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Thursday, February 19, 2009 3:39 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"... people whom do not kneel, will not submit, even unarmed, to threats because they simply don't have it in them to do so. Now imagine just how HARD it would be, for a petty warlord, if damn near EVERYONE was like that ..."

Which SignyM addressed earlier. The fact is MOST people aren't like that. If you look at history all over the globe, after you get past the tribe where everybody pretty much knows everyone else and has a personal stake in whether Joe Blow or Jane Doe is the current leader - people don't much care. Not until it affects their lives very deeply.

And then you get to the current society where the lines of power are very distant and indirect. Joe Blow is running the bank in England that buys US bonds that determines the currency policy of Jane Doe in Switzerland. And who gives a &^%$ ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Thursday, February 19, 2009 4:06 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Right, which is where the whole concept of expanding the monkeysphere wider in a family/clan/tribe aspect large enough to encompass the elements required for a technological society comes in, but we're still quite a ways from than on an evolutionary development scale, with mechanisms in place designed to prevent it.

-F

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Thursday, February 19, 2009 4:37 PM

DREAMTROVE

wulf, I was snarking, but also, I'm making a real point. The only place in africa that is anarchist is Somalia. Personally, I'd rather be in Somalia than under one of the govts. there. There's some chaos, but that chaos was caused by wars, where one govt. attacks another, that's not anarchy. Sure, anarchy has problems, but Rwanda and Kosovo were all govt. No anarchy there. Kosovo is a state of Serbia, and the attacker was the democratically elected govt. of Serbia, the counter strike was the govt. of the US, and neither did a lot of good. In Rwanda, the attacker was the Govt. of Rwanda, exterminating its own people. If they'd had anararchy, and guns, they might have been able to defend themselves, instead of getting slaughtered. of the 3% of casualties that were hutu, their killers were also govt., who killed them for harboring Tutsi.

I'm not spending time arguing this, gah. Must get back to writing. The problem is the story I'm working on get deleted in a hard drive crash, and also was lacking an element. I need a new twist.

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Thursday, February 19, 2009 4:53 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Freedom - what a concept!

Quote:
CONTROLLED CHAOS: European Cities Do Away with Traffic Signs

Strange as it may seem, the number of accidents has declined dramatically. Experts from Argentina and the United States have visited Drachten. Even London has expressed an interest in this new example of automobile anarchy. And the model is being tested in the British capital's Kensington neighborhood.

www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0%2C1518%2C448747%2C00.html

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Thursday, February 19, 2009 5:03 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

***************************************************************

Enjoy !

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Thursday, February 19, 2009 5:26 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Posting this b/c it's interesting and somewhat relevant:

Internal Choices Are Weaker Than Those Dictated By The Outside World

ScienceDaily (Feb. 16, 2009)

The underlying sense of being in control of our own actions is challenged by new research from UCL (University College London) which demonstrates that the choices we make internally are weak and easily overridden compared to when we are told which choice to make.

The research, which is published in Cerebral Cortex, is one of the first neuroscientific studies to look at changing one's mind in situations where the initial decision was one's own 'free choice'. Free choices can be defined as actions occurring when external cues are largely absent – for example, deciding which dish to choose from a restaurant menu.

The researchers asked study participants to choose which of two buttons they would press in response to a subsequent signal, while their brain activity was recorded using EEG (electroencephalogram). Some choices were made freely by the volunteers and other choices were instructed by arrows on a screen in front of them. The volunteers' choices were occasionally interrupted by a symbol asking them to change their mind, after they had made their choice, but before they had actually pressed the button.

First author Stephen Fleming, UCL Institute of Neurology, said: "When people had chosen for themselves which action to make, we found that the brain activity involved in changing one's mind, or reprogramming these 'free' choices was weak, relative to reprogramming of choices that were dictated by an external stimulus. This suggests that the brain is very flexible when changing a free choice – rather like a spinning coin, a small nudge can push it one way or the other very easily.

"The implication is that, despite our feelings of being in control, our own internal choices are flexible compared to those driven by external stimuli, such as a braking in response to a traffic light. This flexibility might be important - in a dynamic world, we need to be able to change our plans when necessary."

Professor Patrick Haggard, UCL Institute of Cognitive Neuroscience, added: "Our study has two implications for our understanding of human volition. First, our brains contain a mechanism to go back and change our mind about our choices, after a choice is made but before the action itself. Our internal decisions are not set in stone, but can be re-evaluated right up to the last moment. Second, changing an internal choice in this way seems to be easier than changing a choice guided by external instructions.

"We often think about our own internal decisions as having the strength of conviction, but our results suggest that the brain is smart enough to make us flexible about what we want. The ability to flexibly adjust our decisions about what we do in the current situation is a major component of intelligence, and has a clear survival value."

This research was funded by the Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC), with additional support from the Wellcome Trust. Stephen Fleming was funded by a Medical Research Council (MRC) doctoral studentship.

This study was carried out by researchers from UCL, University Medical Center Utrecht and Stuivenberg Hospital.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Thursday, February 19, 2009 6:53 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Sign Sign everywhere a sign
Blocking out the scenery breaking my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign

My dad really likes that song, especially since he used to be a long-haired freaky person.

----------
"Pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space, 'cause there's bugger all down here on Earth."

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Thursday, February 19, 2009 10:30 PM

FREMDFIRMA

So do I, that and Buffalo Springfield's "For what it's worth" are two of my all time old skool favorites.

"Stop, hey, what's that sound, everybody look what's goin down...."

As for the study, interesting as it is - I wonder if there were any "backlashers" in the sample group.

I dunno anything else to call em, but these are folk who, when presented with such a suggestion, will reflexively do the OPPOSITE of what is suggested to them - and seem to be quite heavily represented amongst anarchists in general, cause I play on that in a reversive-psych fashion when I am "herding cats" during protest walks/marches.

I actually first noted this particular group back in my early teen years, as up to a certain point I thought it an individual trait, till a certain REALLY ANNOYING commercial was run, over and over, on a popular radio station causing a particular chunk of the folk I went to school with (ironically the one's I hated the least) to retaliate by not buying the product in question.

Initially I put it down to sheer cussedness, but as time went on, watching those particular people, there do seem to be folk with a natural pre-disposition to NOT simply obey, and either question or react in opposite fashion - however as most if not all of them, at least in THAT school, wound up shipped off to the camps, a social culling effect has taken place to marginalise, even destroy, what I feel is actually the better portion of our kind.

Even if they did manage to 'survive' the school system, our whole damn society penalises anything but meek obedience at every turn and corner, so by it's nature the bulk of it's people are going to be obedient.

But that sure don't mean all of us are.
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers.."

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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