Propaganda. The correct spelling is PropAganda. by Wulfenstar

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Propaganda. The correct spelling is PropAganda.

POSTED BY: WULFENSTAR
UPDATED: Monday, March 2, 2009 22:25
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Monday, March 2, 2009 11:26 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Ok, I came across this "news" article...strangely it was linked off another "article" from the current Attorney General...

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4695848&page=1

People. Please. Wake. Up.

Also, please read:

http://www.jpfo.org/kirby/kirby-not-now.htm

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Monday, March 2, 2009 11:42 AM

CHRISISALL

I see Mexicans at gun shows all the time. They pay in coke.

LOL, if someone wants a gun, it's easy in this global economy.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, March 2, 2009 12:35 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

From the article:

"It's almost impossible for a private citizen to get a gun in Mexico."

Yeah, and it damned well SHOULD be almost impossible for an illegal to get one here and take it across the border INTO Mexico. Doing so is already a crime, so what is it they're after? Do they want U.S. law enforcement to have MORE laws they don't bother to enforce? Do they want Mexican officials to be forced to take even higher bribes before turning a blind eye to this crap?

These people are already CRIMINALS! Making something illegal isn't going to stop them from breaking the law, because breaking the law is what they're already doing!

Shit, how hard is that to figure out?

Mike

If you're going to assume anything, assume you're wrong.

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Monday, March 2, 2009 12:55 PM

WHOZIT

You'd think the DRUGS were to blame.

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Monday, March 2, 2009 1:07 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Yet the puppet theater is trying to implant the idea that its the 2nd Amendments fault. That those poor little Mexicants wouldn't be all shooting themselves to bits if it went for the big bad old Constitution...

Good Lord, Im starting to sound like Piratenews...

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Monday, March 2, 2009 1:21 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:

Good Lord, Im starting to sound like Piratenews...

He ain't always wrong.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, March 2, 2009 2:28 PM

KWICKO

The problem isn't the guns - the problem is, the money's too good. Take away the American-bought guns, and see what that gets you. There will still be guns in the hands of Mexican criminals - they'll come straight from just about anywhere south of Mexico. Or Cuba. Venezuela. China. Russia. Whoever wants to make a buck, and doesn't care how the cash was made.

Trust me, the guns they're getting from this side of the border are NOT the main part of the problem, and trying to solve the drug problem that way is going to do exactly NOTHING to help.

Mike

If you're going to assume anything, assume you're wrong.

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Monday, March 2, 2009 2:53 PM

BYTEMITE

Slightly confused here: if Mexico is preventing Mexican criminals from buying guns in their country and that's making Mexican criminals get their guns here... And you say that if the criminals didn't get their guns here, they'd get them from somewhere else...

HOW would Mexican criminals get their guns from somewhere else? If they're having to physically cross the border just to get somewhere they can buy a gun, that doesn't exactly say to me that Mexico has the best shipping industry or post service, or that order by mail is really an option for them. Would they physically go those other places?

I've never lived in Mexico, so I don't know what it's like. Maybe they have a very good reason besides that for crossing the border.

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Monday, March 2, 2009 2:58 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Yeah really, who wants crippled, shitty, overpriced junk when they can just run crates of full auto military spec AK's in from south america ?

-F

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Monday, March 2, 2009 3:03 PM

SERGEANTX

Gotta love the war on drugs.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Monday, March 2, 2009 3:13 PM

KIRKULES

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Yeah really, who wants crippled, shitty, overpriced junk when they can just run crates of full auto military spec AK's in from south america ?

-F

A few years back the Chinese company Norinco which is owned by the Chi-Com military was caught shipping full auto AK's into the US. I'm sure they'd be happy to sell the drug cartels all the guns they desire.

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Monday, March 2, 2009 4:07 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:
Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Yeah really, who wants crippled, shitty, overpriced junk when they can just run crates of full auto military spec AK's in from south america ?

-F

A few years back the Chinese company Norinco which is owned by the Chi-Com military was caught shipping full auto AK's into the US. I'm sure they'd be happy to sell the drug cartels all the guns they desire.

Yup, that ain't a myth, either. And Frem might know a li'l bit about it, being that a certain importer in Southfield, Michigan was the one importing them. Seems the IMPORTER was a shell company also owned by the Chinese gov't.

I found out about all this stuff *after* I bought my Norinco MAK-90 last sumer. Hearing about it, I had to go digging, and then started freaking out, because my MAK-90 was indeed imported through that Michigan importer... After some research, I found that the one I got is NOT one of the suspect ones. There were some that were full-auto, and a whole bunch that were "demilitarized" but still technically illegal due to a "third hole" in the receiver, that would have been where the rivet for the auto-select sear went. According to the ATF, even HAVING such a hole in the receiver makes the gun a machinegun, and thus earns you a ten-year stay at Club Fed.

Luckily, after tracking down some more info, I ascertained that mine is all good and legal. Whew!

This same thing went on with some of the Yugoslavian PSL-54c rifles, and might be going on right now with a recent shipment of Saiga 7.62x39 rifles.

Mike

If you're going to assume anything, assume you're wrong.

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Monday, March 2, 2009 4:19 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Slightly confused here: if Mexico is preventing Mexican criminals from buying guns in their country and that's making Mexican criminals get their guns here... And you say that if the criminals didn't get their guns here, they'd get them from somewhere else...

1) Mexico isn't "preventing" shit. It's technically illegal for private citizens to have guns in Mexico, but that's hardly the same as saying that the laws are enforced, or that there aren't ways around the laws and around the lawmakers.

2) How are the cartels getting drugs into the U.S.? How are drugs being transshipped through Mexico from places like Colombia, Peru, Panama, etc.? Do you not think it's probably that those same corridors used for shipping illegal substances (drugs) one direction could be just as easily used to ship OTHER illegal substances (guns) another direction? A huge part of the problem is that the law enforcement in Mexico is amazingly corrupt; the same guy letting the drugs go through is just as likely to let guns go the other way (into Mexico), no matter which country they're coming in from.

3) Outlawing "assault weapons" here in the U.S. does zero-point-shit to get rid of machineguns in Mexico. The cartels are going to war with MACHINE GUNS, not with the semi-auto sporterized rifles that are sold in the U.S. If Mexicans are getting machineguns from the U.S., they're doing so illegally. More likely, they're buying them from Mexican law enforcement and the Mexican military. Again, outlawing them here is no help. Why? Because machineguns are already illegal here in the U.S., at least for 99.99% of the population. As a private citizen, you CAN legally buy and shoot a machinegun (and when I use the term "machinegun", it should be understood to be a completely different thing than what are commonly referred to as "assault weapons", which are civilian, semi-automatic versions of the fully-automatic machineguns used by the military). It takes a whole lot of paperwork, a few well-placed bribes - er, "tax stamps" - paid to the ATF, and some pretty intensive background checks, just to make sure that if you DO get a machinegun, you're not going to make a complete idiot of yourself with it, and embarrass the ATF for giving you the permit to have it.

And again, if illegal guns, purchased illegally, are already making it across the border from the U.S. into Mexico, then how exactly will making them more illegal help stem that flow?

Mike

If you're going to assume anything, assume you're wrong.

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Monday, March 2, 2009 5:18 PM

BYTEMITE

Okay. I just wasn't sure why, if they have the means to send and receive shipments of (illegal) goods, and the means to get around government controls, why they would be physically coming here to buy.

I think I've completely misinterpretted something somewhere in this thread...

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Monday, March 2, 2009 6:24 PM

KWICKO

Byte, I'm not sure they are physically coming here to buy. They could very well be funneling things through the U.S. - buying things here, then shipping them into Mexico. It's no secret that pretty much NOTHING going INTO Mexico gets inspected - after all, there's no one shipping drugs and cheap car parts into Mexico, right? Although there does seem to be a roaring market for sending stolen cars from the U.S. into Mexico, where they somehow remarkably end up "clean" once they go through the proper channels...

So you can pretty safely load up a container of illegal arms - and if you're big in the drug business, there's a good chance you've also got sources for black-market weapons - here in the U.S., and then send 'em off to Mexico to your buddies, and there's very little chance that you're going to get caught or the containers inspected - and even if they do, you've paid the right people to ignore whatever they see...

Of course, that's even assuming that there ARE large numbers of weapons leaving the U.S. in the hands of (or under the control of) the drug cartels. There's a certain "hot-button issue" scare factor to this whole story - Eric Holder says it, but offers little to nothing in the way of facts to substantiate his claims. I'd say there's a much better chance that the illegal weapons the cartels are getting their hands on are coming from their own military connections - and of course, WE sell the Mexican government a sizable chunk of those weapons. In other words, it could well be that your government is trying to scare you into supporting legislation that you'd never support otherwise. Who knows? Maybe they can wrap it in a jingoistic name, too - say, Patriot Act II or some such? Who'd vote against patriotism, after all?

So it comes down to our government wanting to stop citizens selling weapons to the Mexican cartels, because they want to corner the market on selling weapons to the Mexican cartels themselves, by first routing them first through the Mexican military.

If that sounds jaded and cynical, it's only because I've been around this block more than a few times, and seen how the addresses change, but the scenery stays remarkably the same...

Mike

If you're going to assume anything, assume you're wrong.

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Monday, March 2, 2009 10:25 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Umm, yeah, they did that.

Norinco doesn't really give a flying shit about other peoples laws, as a general rule - which to be absolutely honest, gives me warm fuzzies when I think of them.

Remember, my previous slide-racker was a Norinco M1897 Trench Gun, as I mentioned, yes?

Michiganders in general take the second amendment a little more seriously than most, and Norinco played on that completely cause other than a few chicken littles, nobody here really cared, and if they did, it was with a little knowing smile that the average citizenry could successfully match firepower with the cartels, who get THEIR weapons from the same damned sources they get their drugs, mind you.

The only morons who try to buy auto-arms in the US are without fail, Gov't sting ops trying to raise hysteria, and Norinco was a bunch of stupid, greedy dipshits for falling for it.

The funniest part of that whole mess was that immediately after that came out, the gangbangers hid under a rock for a while and crime dropped as a result - crooks are all about risk management, and the idea of a fair fight gives them the screaming willies.

Come to think of it, in that respect they're not too different from Government, are they ?

Looked at from that perspective, the gangs are actually MORE effective at "law enforcement" than the police are, as they keep other drug suppliers out of the area, their extortion is far cheaper than the governments, and being that it is non-profitable as a general rule, tend not to subscribe to mindless violence without cause or reason.

Subtract all the petty nitpicks like speed traps and other bullshit "crimes" which harm no one, and you could actually make a case that we'd be better off replacing the LAPD with the Crips, especially given that the formers piss poor accuracy when unloading on a target, resulting in hails of bullets with single digit hits, versus gangland shootings with far better overall accuracy.

And even accounting for all the crimes committed BY the street gang itself, the LAPD in particular doesn't hold much of a moral edge there either, do they ?

It's not a school of thought I subscribe to, or am even fond of - but putting it up front and center, minus the propaganda, how different are they, really, from each other ?

Anyhows, yeah, Norinco did that, and despite doing it, or perhaps even because of it, happens to be remembered rather fondly around here, which oughta to tell folk something about public opinion as it relates to this issue.

The drug cartels have NO need to come here and buy half-assed, piss-poor illegal conversion models of shitty overpriced crap, when the very same sources they get their drugs from are perfectly willing to throw in a crate or two full military spec AK's for far, far less than you'd pay for a one of those halfass civilian jobbies over here.

The idea of the cartels coming here to buy weapons is as laugable as the idea of Japanese people coming here to buy cars, ok ?

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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