Why CAN'T Ron Paul be President? by Wulfenstar

Ron Paul, or anyone true to his beliefs, couldn't get in the seat EVER for the same reason that we'll never see another season of Firefly.

There is simply too many people in positions of power (ie: the ability to give yourself raises that at very worst match inflation on a year to year basis) that have grown accustomed to running the show the way they see fit and Dr. Paul's message of freedom and personal responsibility are a stark contrast to what they desire. (Might I add that he has a track record of always voting against a raise)

It's funny that Firefly's initial run placed the episodes out of the order they were meant to be seen in by some suits at FuX, isn't it?

It's funny how Dr. Paul's message was turned inside out by pundits on either side of the Power Elite spectrum the last two years...

It's funny that I never even heard of Firefly until 3 years after it came out, and still didn't watch it for another year or more at least before giving it a shot, isn't it?

And by then..... it was too late.

Do I even need to mention what we have now and what could have been with Dr. Paul, or the fact that even when I speak of him today that only a handful of people don't ask me who I'm talking about?

It's too late...

There will be a change alright. But certainly not what was sold to us.

From the bottom of my heart, I hope you are all faring as well as I have been. True... I'm going broke in the market, but I still have a job and a roof over my head for the time being. I'm just glad I'm not even 30 yet and have a lot of avenues available to me yet. I know the same can't be said for many of us who may be hurting.

It's been a long time since I've been here, and honestly with a majority of the people in the world acting and thinking like I've been for the last 6 or so years in the REAL real world, I can't say I miss it all that much.

Here's hoping you're not all still scratching each other's eyes out and maybe starting to realize that neither "side" is right, and there is many more than two ways to skin a cat.... or something like that.....

We the People....

And if we aren't, then let me be the first to welcome 1984, albeit just a tad tardy.

I love Big Brother....

In the Biblical sense

Peace & Love.... We'll Rise Above

~6SJ

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 6:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Obama burnt down the Senate House, and forced Bush to hand him power under emergency anti-terrorism powers without an elected majority for his party?

Well, duh. But of course it wasn't covered in the mainstream media!

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 6:16 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"So what, he's welcome to bitch all he wants, that's free speech, innit ?"

He asked a question "Why CAN'T Ron Paul be President?" I was trying to provide an answer - because in this version of self-governance, almost everybody * doesn't want Ron Paul.

Now, if Wulf really IS for self-governance, he should either be OK with the result, or be working to change people's minds through reason and logic. Calling people names b/c they don't agree with you is not a way to win their support and get the result you want.

Aside from that, Wulf has repeatedly and routinely bitched in such a way as to demonstrate his hostility to self governance. And that is why I question his sincerity on the issue.

*Back of the envelope calculation: 100% - (8% of repubicans * 35% people who identify as repubicans) = 99% percentage of people who don't want Ron Raul as president.

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Silence is consent.

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 6:41 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"Yes, those, among other things. Most of the people I know want state involvement in everyday life. They expect the government to take care of their children while they are at work, to decide what's good to eat, what medicines they can take, how they can make a living, essentially how to live life. They are uncomfortable with the idea of making decisions for themselves and, apparently through some form of projection, seek to prevent others from doing so as well. They want to be told what to think and what to believe. They want to free themselves from as much responsibility as possible and avoid the repercussions of their mistakes. They want to stumble through life as ignorant children, secure in the notion that the government will protect them from all risk.

Yes, that's hyperbole, but not by much. Freedom requires a population that's able, and more importantly willing, to think for themselves. We've lost that. And I fear CTS is right, we won't get it back easily."

Here, SergeantX just demonstrated the same kind of arrogance and elitism that drives him, Wulf, 6-String, CTS and a few others - when people DO think, but in ways they disagree with, they demean 99% of human beings as unthinking stupid sheeple they're relucantly forced to share the planet with.

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Silence is consent.

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 6:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Here, SergeantX just demonstrated the same kind of arrogance and elitism that drives him, Wulf, 6-String, CTS and a few others - when people DO think, but in ways they disagree with, they demean 99% of human beings as unthinking stupid sheeple they're relucantly forced to share the planet with.

Here, rue displays her penchant for engaging in petty, spiteful personal attacks rather than honest debate and discussion. The ad hominem fallacy is a common tool used by demagogues with little else to support their position.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 6:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"Yes, those, among other things. Most of the people I know want state involvement in everyday life. They expect the government to take care of their children while they are at work, to decide what's good to eat, what medicines they can take, how they can make a living, essentially how to live life. They are uncomfortable with the idea of making decisions for themselves and, apparently through some form of projection, seek to prevent others from doing so as well. They want to be told what to think and what to believe. They want to free themselves from as much responsibility as possible and avoid the repercussions of their mistakes. They want to stumble through life as ignorant children, secure in the notion that the government will protect them from all risk.

Yes, that's hyperbole, but not by much. Freedom requires a population that's able, and more importantly willing, to think for themselves. We've lost that. And I fear CTS is right, we won't get it back easily."

Here, SergeantX just demonstrated the same kind of arrogance and elitism that drives him, Wulf, 6-String, CTS and a few others - when people DO think, but in ways they disagree with, they demean 99% of human beings as unthinking stupid sheeple they're relucantly forced to share the planet with.

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Silence is consent.

I dunno Rue.... It does sound great when you put it that way.

I know if you had your way I wouldn't be able to smoke anywhere except for in a vaccuum because you feel that it's bad for me and everyone around me. Seems like I'm the one being dictated to by others in that scenario.

I don't smoke at work in the office. I don't want to put people out. I had no problem with having to go to the 4' x 4' heavily ventilated room to have a smoke on my break, until the newer, bigger company bought us out and placed their laws upon us and thrust us out into the -40 degree weather we've experienced in Wisconsin this winter, in this our "global warming" days.

Where is the fairness though Rue? When does it end. We can't smoke at work, we can't smoke at the restaurant or bars, we as business owners can't choose whether or not to allow our patrons to smoke in state-wide bans, and all the while we are the people who are paying a higher tax every single year because the 75% of people who pay taxes that don't smoke would rather not see their property tax or vehicle registration tax raise.

I'm paying for a bunch of illegitimate and/or ill-conceived kids health care (supposedly) with this increase when I don't have any kids. If we had it your way, I'd be reduced to wearing a nicotene patch 24/7 and my brothers future children would be mandated by law to receive autism shots before Kindergarten.

I'm not saying that I act any less "holier than thou" than you do, but take a good look in the mirror. For the years I've known you any post that was more than three words reeked of self righteousness.

I'm betting you only brought up my name because I posted 5 minutes before. You couldn't possibly have had that big a crush on me that you would speak so ill of me like that for the last 4 months or so in my absence.

I hope you're doing well otherwise,
~6SJ

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 7:11 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"Here, rue displays her penchant for engaging in petty, spiteful personal attacks ..."

And what was this, Sergeant X ?:

"Yes, those, among other things. Most of the people I know want state involvement in everyday life. They expect the government to take care of their children while they are at work, to decide what's good to eat, what medicines they can take, how they can make a living, essentially how to live life. They are uncomfortable with the idea of making decisions for themselves and, apparently through some form of projection, seek to prevent others from doing so as well. They want to be told what to think and what to believe. They want to free themselves from as much responsibility as possible and avoid the repercussions of their mistakes. They want to stumble through life as ignorant children, secure in the notion that the government will protect them from all risk.

Yes, that's hyperbole, but not by much. Freedom requires a population that's able, and more importantly willing, to think for themselves. We've lost that. And I fear CTS is right, we won't get it back easily."

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Silence is consent.

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 7:14 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Awesome reply Six.

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 7:19 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"Most of the people I know want state involvement in everyday life. They expect the government to take care of their children while they are at work, to decide what's good to eat, what medicines they can take, how they can make a living, essentially how to live life. They are uncomfortable with the idea of making decisions for themselves and, apparently through some form of projection, seek to prevent others from doing so as well. They want to be told what to think and what to believe. They want to free themselves from as much responsibility as possible and avoid the repercussions of their mistakes. They want to stumble through life as ignorant children, secure in the notion that the government will protect them from all risk."

Rue,

Its only a personal attack if it applys to you.

Which it does.

BURN!

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 7:21 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"I know if you had your way I wouldn't be able to smoke anywhere except for in a vaccuum because you feel that it's bad for me and everyone around me."

I don't care what you do to yourself. I really truly do not care. If you think I give the least little thought, you are obviously projecting some kind of ego need to be meaningnful to somebody. If we had tax-supported health-care, I would probably think you should get some kind of reduced benefit since you are obviously engaged in health-destroying behaviors, and using up my tax dollars. But we don't, so whatever ... As for second hand smoke, yes, believe it or not, it IS harmful to those around you. You really shouldn't be allowed to take OTHER peoples' decisions to smoke or not to smoke away from them when you light up nearby.

I personally have my own right-wing ideas about people having children they can't and don't intend to take care of. But that's a topic for another day.

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Silence is consent.

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 7:25 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"Rue,
Its only a personal attack if it applys (sic) to you.
Which it does.
BURN!"

So, to make broad negative statements which are not on topic - ALL LIBERTARIANS ARE SELF-CENTERED JACK-OFFS - is not an attack because there's no name attached to it ? Or it's only an attack if you think it applies to you ? Or if your name is attached to it but you don't think it applies to you it's not an attack ?

Do you have a clue as to what you mean ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 7:37 AM

And therein lies the hypocrisy and futility of arguing against an unwindable defense.

How can I argue against that Rue, when I've already agreed with all of those opinions on the other side and still get an argument?

I don't smoke in front of other people, unless they inject them into a situation outside of work or family life where it is expected, at least at a reasonable amount of establishments, to partake in.

Like I said, at work, a 4 x 4 room until the new management came in and nixed it.

If I was living by the lease my new management wanted me to sign, which I didn't sign, I wouldn't be allowed to smoke in my own apartment which I pay $750 a month to live in and have been "Grandfathered" in.

In my Grandma's town, you can't smoke outdoors without risking a ticket now. Where would that put me now if that happened in my town and I signed that lease addendum?

I do want to work on a fair compromise for all parties, regarding when and where it's acceptable and taxwise, but from where I stand I have no choice but to keep getting beat down by the 75% or more majority on the matter.

What would you do with me Master?

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 7:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
... broad negative statements which are not on topic...

Exactly. Broad. As in not specific, and not personal. I posted my perception that our society has lost its passion for independence and freedom. Further, I made a point of acknowledging it as hyperbole. Considering the thread title and the track of the discussion, it was precisely on topic.

But rather than post an intelligible response, making your case for why you think I'm wrong, you choose to speculate on what "drives" me and characterize me as "arrogant" and "elitist". Your armchair psychology, accurate or not, adds nothing to the discussion and merely serves to distract from the debate. Is that all you got?

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 7:58 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"Where is the fairness though Rue? When does it end."

Replying to your FIRST post -

"We can't smoke at work"
We agree on this.

"we can't smoke at the restaurant or bars"
I PRESUME we agree on this, it's hard to say. Other patrons and the workers may not want to breathe your smoke, I would say it's a fair thing to enforce. What do you think ?

"we as business owners can't choose whether or not to allow our patrons to smoke in state-wide bans"
IS there a statewide ban in your state ? Are there statewide bans in other sates that forbid a smokers clubs and bars ? Or is this hyperbole ? It's hard to say.

"and all the while we are the people who are paying a higher tax every single year because the 75% of people who pay taxes that don't smoke would rather not see their property tax or vehicle registration tax raise."
Is this not in contradiction to what people were saying about weed ? Make it legal and then tax the hell out of it ? So, should tobacco be exempt from that approach b/c it's YOUR habit of choice ?

"I'm paying for a bunch of illegitimate and/or ill-conceived kids health care (supposedly) with this increase when I don't have any kids."
Which is why I made my comment about children. But you're ALSO paying for other services which you DO use, so maybe --- you should make a better argument than the Ronald Reagan welfare queen one, which doesn't work all that well in this case.

"If we had it your way, I'd be reduced to wearing a nicotine patch 24/7"
And this IS simply untrue. You can OD on cigarette nicotine as far as I'm concerned. Or on nicotine patches, or on alcohol, or, really anything. As long as you don't harm anyone else in the process, it's all good.

"and my brothers future children would be mandated by law to receive autism shots before Kindergarten."
And THIS is factually untrue, I presume b/c you have your opinions but are again very low on facts.

"I'm not saying that I act any less "holier than thou" than you do, but take a good look in the mirror. For the years I've known you any post that was more than three words reeked of self righteousness."
I'm not here to convince anyone. I'm here to make my comments, state my observations, poke fun, post actual facts that get lost in the hype, and so on. At this point, with this set of people, I prefer the gibing, jeering role of the jester.

"I'm betting you only brought up my name because I posted 5 minutes before. You couldn't possibly have had that big a crush on me that you would speak so ill of me like that for the last 4 months or so in my absence."
There are people whose names I've forgotten, and I think so little of you, you were one of them. So yes, your post reminded me of you.

"I hope you're doing well otherwise,"
Actually, I hope you're doing well otherwise as well. But don't take that as a lifelong commitment on my part to keep your existence and well-being in mind.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 8:07 AM

Heh... you win Rue, whatever.

Thanks for reminding me why I don't come around here anymore. Maybe we'll talk again in 4 or 5 months.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 8:49 AM

OUT2THEBLACK

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Heh... you win Rue, whatever.

Thanks for reminding me why I don't come around here anymore. Maybe we'll talk again in 4 or 5 months.

Never wrestle with a pig , Jack...

You just get dirty , and the freakin' pig enjoys it...

Good to see you 'round here again...Missed you for a tick...

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 8:55 AM

OUT2THEBLACK

“He that will not apply new remedies must expect new evils ; for time is the greatest innovator.” -Francis Bacon

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 9:55 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"Heh... you win Rue, whatever."

You mean I did something wrong by REPLYING to YOUR post point by point ? And you have a problem with that --- WHY again ?

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Well, in that case, I'll just point and laugh, since you don't deal with actual discussion.

Sotto voce And people wonder why I don't actually dicsuss things with this crowd. sheesh.

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 10:21 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"Broad. As in not specific, and not personal. I posted my perception that our society has lost its passion for independence and freedom." Like this:
"Yes, those, among other things. Most of the people I know want state involvement in everyday life. They expect the government to take care of their children while they are at work, to decide what's good to eat, what medicines they can take, how they can make a living, essentially how to live life. They are uncomfortable with the idea of making decisions for themselves and, apparently through some form of projection, seek to prevent others from doing so as well. They want to be told what to think and what to believe. They want to free themselves from as much responsibility as possible and avoid the repercussions of their mistakes. They want to stumble through life as ignorant children, secure in the notion that the government will protect them from all risk.

Hyperbole ? Yes, but not by much."

"Why CAN'T Ron Paul be President?" Well, I'd say it's b/c all Libertarians are self-centered jack-offs. Hyperbole ? Yes, but not by much.

There ya' go. It meets your criteria, is actually responsive to the question, calls itself an exaggeration, and is therefore an on-topic item for productive dicussion.

***************************************************************

Don't you agree SergeantX ?

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 10:38 AM

wow....

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 10:52 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Heh... you win Rue

6IX, reading your posts and Rue's side by side, at least you and I can agree on that ONE point! Facts and logic are not on your side, so instead of being a sore loser you might want to take the oppty to learn something.

FREM, SARG, WULF- I guess libertarians are very much like "the left"... there are Trotskyists and Leninists and Marxists and Maoists and all different kinds of flavors of socialist and it's hard to respond to each one individually.

You're all saying somewhat different things-

Sarge, your main issues seems to be that you don't want to be forced to participate in stuff you don't agree with. So... "forced to particpate"? You're not dragooned into manning the levees, drafted into military service, or required to go to the Official Church. Really, I can think of only TWO things that you are forced to do (by the govt) and even one of them is pretty leaky: paying taxes, and educating your child. So it seems to me that your big beef is really all about taxes. I suspect that you also don't like a lot of the "prohibitions" imposed "by society", but logically that is not being forced into participating. Instead, it is being prohibited from doing something. So you might want to clarify.

Frem- You seem to be very much more process- oriented. It doesn't seem so much about "what" is done as it is about "how" it's organized. In essence, you're against any coercive force. BUT- you DO make exceptions! As I recall, the exception includes self-defense and enforcment of contracts. Does it include anything else? For example, if there's a real bad-*ss and five or six peeps form a posse to take care of the problem...?

Wulf- You claim to be a Libertarian and yet you would REQUIRE that everyone serve in the military. That seems to be a very un-Libertarian position to take, and generally what I gather from your posts is that the only thing you have against the PTB is that you seem to want to be one them so that you can "fix the country" according to YOUR standards.

O2B- You're a jackoff.

--------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 3:00 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Frem- You seem to be very much more process- oriented. It doesn't seem so much about "what" is done as it is about "how" it's organized. In essence, you're against any coercive force. BUT- you DO make exceptions! As I recall, the exception includes self-defense and enforcment of contracts. Does it include anything else? For example, if there's a real bad-*ss and five or six peeps form a posse to take care of the problem...?

Very much process oriented, since replacing the legal bonds with social bonds does little other than move decision making power back onto the most effective folk who have to live under them.

I'll take the last point first - anyone who's seen a barn raising knows the philosophy, and while in THIS day and age threat of lawsuit, legal action or fear of getting involved with folk you do not know are a strong check against it, the desire to render aid is in fact part of human nature via empirical evidence no matter what certain depressing philosophers would have you believe.

And the closer and stronger those social bonds, the more powerful that desire is.

Hell, I've been victim to it over the city council incident, a post I never wanted, but when ENOUGH of the locals pushed me to do it, I went and did what they asked, in spite of having told them what would happen and watching them flake out when it did - not to mention being called upon to minister to folks having a theological crisis due to the collapse of their upper echelons who would otherwise be ministering, and despite having a rather, erm, passionate dislike, to say it nicely, of their whole belief system, stood and delivered cause they didn't trust no one else to DO it.

Sure, sometimes you gotta stomp on your own wants and prejudices for the common good, but when it's a personal CHOICE, things go a lot more smoothly - I can for damn sure in any populated area find five people to help me load a truck, so it stands to reason that in any populated community you can find a least a little assistance on a minimally skilled project, right ?

One factor which I find bothersome is how we isolate ourselves and lock into an Us-N-Them mentality over really dumbass shit like race or gender, politics, geographical location, and worse is how folks have exploited this to prettymuch turn us all against each other, which in combination with the limited, prison-pecking-order social environment of public school and the advent of the internet, has lead to most folks seriously lacking in the necessary interpersonal skills to make it work.
(Subset of that is how that lack also makes verbally de-escalating a conflict before it comes to violence less likely)

We'll get there eventually, but sure ain't gonna happen today, no.

And Re: Contracts.

One of my nitpicks about that is a certain level of inter-corporate collusion and Gov interference making it impossible for say... one bank to offer a less exploitive contract than the others, cause they'll be totally blackballed for it if not prosecuted, see ?

So you wind up with a range of false choices all offering the same copy/pasted boilerplate that doesn't even hold them to the terms of their own contract, while offering you no other option but to take your licks and sign it because you will be unable to fully participate in society without doing so.... todays contracts are a nightmare of de-facto slavemaking and exploitation, to be honest.

What I am talking about is a mutual contract written by a third party for a nominal fee, which is collected to finance enforcement, up to and VERY SPECIFICALLY including violence or confiscation as a result of breach or default.

Just imagine if your bank changes the payment date and amount without notice, and the CEA(Contract Enforcement Agency) brings you your money back, along with that nice marble counter from their front office as your share of the penalty fee for their default and breach ?
(Although you'd still owe the loan, mind)

Admittedly though, I kinda swiped the concept itself from the Bonding Authority in David Drakes novels, but it's a damned good concept since they'd HAVE to remain neutral in order to be trusted enough to function at all.

S'all I got time for at the moment, am sweeping through the board before heading out to work.

-F

PS. Of COURSE we're self righteous jerks, everyone is!
Some of us even admit it!

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 3:07 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Except me. I may be a self-righteous jerk but I will NEVER admit it!

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Friday, March 6, 2009 3:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
Heh... you win Rue
6IX, reading your posts and Rue's side by side, at least you and I can agree on that ONE point! Facts and logic are not on your side, so instead of being a sore loser you might want to take the oppty to learn something.

LOL... I'm not a sore loser. I just have better things to do with my time than argue with a completely static individual who will never change and who wants to go to great lenghts to limit everyone's freedoms around them when it comes to things that they believe in or condemn, but RUE the day that someone decides that they don't agree with one piece of their flawless logic. Rue (still don't know if it's a he or she after all these years) is just as abrasive as I remember him/her when challenged and I see that the more things change in the world the more they stay the same.

Tell me he/she hasn't been pining over me like that for the last 4 months Signy.... He/she lumped me right in with everyone else he/she hates on these boards after my first post here in forever.

Quote:
Here, SergeantX just demonstrated the same kind of arrogance and elitism that drives him, Wulf, 6-String, CTS and a few others - when people DO think, but in ways they disagree with, they demean 99% of human beings as unthinking stupid sheeple they're reluctantly forced to share the planet with.

I've got me and mine to worry about, and I just don't feel the need anymore to come on here and predict things that will (and have) happened to a bunch of people who argue the point beforehand and when it turns out I'm right don't even take the time to say that maybe they were mistaken.

Practically everything that's happening now besides the color of our President's skin I had been saying would happen for years. Go back to some of my original posts and you'll see me telling people not to buy houses more than a year before the term "housing bubble" was ever coined.

Seriously... Here's hoping there is a Civil War II of some sort and that one day I can just choose to live in a state that meshes most with my idea of what freedom is. There is no perfect world, and I realize that you could never live in a civilized world where everyone thinks that every idea everyone else has is right. I wouldn't want to live in that world anyways. I do want to live in a world where the Federal Central Government is dissolved and states can choose to run the way they see fit. I am sane, and will admit that I do like the idea of having a Federal Government to do the duties it was created to do, but when given an inch it has taken multi-hundred-billion-dollar-bailouts one after another. (This is very much bi-partisan criticism, mind you)

Who watches the Watchmen?

The DEA not doing federal raids on states that legalized the production and distribution of medical marajuana is a great start, but then again the guy telling us that wants to take away all of our guns too, so any way you look at it you lose.

The only reason that they're finally becoming lax on the mecical marajuana laws is because cities, counties, states and the Union is (and has been for quite some time) very bankrupt and the printing presses are on life support. It was a foolish wasteful and unwinnable "War" from the start (notice how they haven't called it "The War on Drugs" since we've had real wars to deal with). The dumb asshats from both sides had to have their backs up against the wall to finally, begrudgingly learn the error of their ways. Now we won't be wasting so much money, and we have the additional tax dollars going to our own local Governments instead of being funneled outside of our country to buy who knows what....

Pity that all humans are like that and no matter how much bickering we do in here, none of us are ever going to say we're wrong until our own backs are up against the wall.

It took the imminent threat of a rat biting off Winston's face to admit that he loved Big Brother. And though after his will was completely broken this statement was ABSOLUTELY true, it doesn't make it right.

Here's hoping our backs are never against that wall and that we can continue to fling verbal fecal matter at each other till we're wrinkled and grey (and in desperate need of a shower and a change of clothes). Here's also hoping that you're doing your part to prepare yourself for if it ever comes down.

Ya know, unless Governments across the globe manage a way, from here to eternity, to suppress 6.5 billion people via welfare, medicare, Social Security, more prison space every year, extortion, or rats to the face... it's going to be pretty hard to keep enforcing those smoking laws anyhow.

I see the free rides and entitlement (that even I partake of) coming to an end in the near future.

Many European countries now are cutting back on public spending because it's just not economically feasible. We should be doing it to, but since collectively we still think we're better than everyone else, we'll just keep printing the money and waiting for the next World War to bail us out and start the next post-war housing boom. The police, on all levels of Government, will likely be the last to see lay-offs, but it will happen some day.

On that day, you'll realize that my second hand smoke, although a great annoyance to you, the destroyer of planets, and killer of babies by SIDS is pretty low on the list of things that might kill you.

Good thing there will be people who care enough and are smart enough to try to pick up the pieces, unite and become strong against those who would tyrannize us then.

Better be careful then Signy.... your kids might just pick up smoking when they're trying to emulate me.

Mother
Tell your children not to walk my way
Tell your children not to hear my words
What they mean
What they say
Mother

Mother
Can you keep them in the dark for life
Can you hide them from the waiting world
Oh mother

Father
Gonna take you daughter out tonight
Gonna show her my world
Oh father ~Danzig

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Friday, March 6, 2009 6:29 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
it's going to be pretty hard to keep enforcing those smoking laws anyhow.

Unless you're smoking in my presence, in which case I'll get a big friend to back me and rip that cig out of your mouth and grind it out on your face, bc you have NO RIGHT to foul MY air. (The law of: The right to swing your arm ends at my nose).

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It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Friday, March 6, 2009 6:36 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

You can just walk away. Or he can.

Its whoever is in the space FIRST, Sig.

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Friday, March 6, 2009 6:49 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

But I have as much right to be where I choose as you do. And I'm not foulng your air, but you're fouling mine. So if the laws aren't on my side, or not enforced, I'd handle it the old-fashioned way: brute force. Whoever has the biggest mob wins.

And you've just demonstrated the arrogance that Rue was complaining about... and you don't even see it.

Sigh.

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It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Friday, March 6, 2009 6:56 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Oh give me a break.

You'll resort to "brute force"?

Sweetheart, if Im standing there, minding my own business and you come with some goon to try and "slap" it off me.. heh.

You BOTH better be bullet-proof.

Jeebus, I say that its whoever is there first..and you respond that its "arrogance" to say that?

WTF?

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Friday, March 6, 2009 7:09 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
minding my own business

Okay, you think smoking around peeps who DON'T want to breathe your waste is "minding your own business"? Where do you draw the line?

----------------
I was just minding my own business, peeing on the floor. (What? It's less harmful than cigarette smoke, so just avoid the splashing, plug your nose to avoid the eventual smell, and you'll be OK!)

I was just minding my own business, shitting in my pants. (It's my pants and my shit.)

I was just minding my own business, spraying Mace in the air. (Hey, I'm hurting myself too! Besides, you don't have to be here!)

I was just minding my own business, hurling obscenties at everyone walking by. (It's only words! You don't have to listen!)

I was just minding my own business, squirting everyone with a hose. (Hey, it's only water. It won't kill you! Besides, you needed a shower anyway)

I was just minding my own business, swinging my knife around. (Stay clear and you'll stay out of trouble.)

I was just minding my own business, taking aim at everyone who walked by. (Wasn't intending to shoot. Just having fun.)
-------------
I know you have a crazy defensiveness about your own personal addiction, but let's just leave it at YOUR personal addiction. Keep your bad habits to yourself. Or my friends and I will have to shoot you, proving once again that smoking is bad for your health.

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It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Friday, March 6, 2009 7:12 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Or my friends and I will have to shoot you, proving once again that smoking is bad for your health.

LOLROTFF!!!!!

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, March 6, 2009 8:36 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Lol Fine.

But again, if Im standing outside in a public place, smoking....youove got no right to come along and tell me to quit it.

Stop being meddlesom, you Alliance stooge.

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Friday, March 6, 2009 9:06 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Lol Fine.

But again, if Im standing outside in a public place, smoking....youove got no right to come along and tell me to quit it.

Stop being meddlesom, you Alliance stooge.

And Wulfie? If you're standing there smoking, and I walk up and fart right on you - a really big, juicy, tasty one - then you have absolutely no right to complain about it. After all, it's not hurting you, right? And farts are actually far less harmful to your health than second-hand smoke.

Mike

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Friday, March 6, 2009 9:08 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

No, the metaphor only works if I walk up to YOU, and blow smoke in YOUR face.

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Friday, March 6, 2009 9:15 AM

CITIZEN

Actually something similar happened, I was on a train station, years back when it wasn't illegal, and I was smoking a cig, when some bird looked at me like a piece of shit, and said "THAT'S DISGUSTING" and flounced off very theatrically.

I said it wasn't as disgusting as her behaviour. If you're outside in Central London, you're not there for the fresh air any way. It's not like I was blowing smoke in her face, or that she was any where near me, she was just some hate filled crusader. If she had asked me to move, I would have done.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Friday, March 6, 2009 9:32 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"But again, if Im standing outside in a public place, smoking....you've got no right to come along and tell me to quit it."

Go do some homework and come back when you're not quite so ignorant, m'kay ?

Smoking outside still causes second-hand smoke exposure to children
http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0140673602086038

http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/16/4/235
Legislation reduces exposure to second-hand tobacco smoke in New Zealand bars by about 90% (which addresses the problem of exposure to outdoor secondhand smoke)

http://tobaccolawcenter.com/documents/symposium-repace.pdf
BENEFITS OF SMOKE-FREE REGULATIONS IN OUTDOOR SETTINGS: BEACHES, GOLF COURSES, PARKS, PATIOS, AND IN MOTOR VEHICLES

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, March 6, 2009 9:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
So if the laws aren't on my side, or not enforced, I'd handle it the old-fashioned way: brute force. Whoever has the biggest mob wins.

To some, it would seem, that's the essence of democracy.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Friday, March 6, 2009 9:51 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
But again, if Im standing outside in a public place, smoking....youove got no right to come along and tell me to quit it.

I suppose it depends on whether I'm constrained to be in that area. If we're both in a bus stop shelter and its raining, I can't really avoid your smoke, can I?

I was in gym yesterady... it's just a small strip-mall gym... and peeps were standing right outside the door smoking and the wind was blowing it inside. I popped my head out and asked them to move a few feet from the door. It just seems to be a matter of common courtesy... which, along with common sense... seems to be un-common these days.

But I think the point is that 6IX wants to smoke ANYWHERE - in bars, particularly- as he sees it as his RIGHT to be an obnoxious doofus.

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It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Friday, March 6, 2009 9:52 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

SergeantX

The difference between my post and yours - I was posting for illustration purposes. And I actually have more to back up my post that you do yours. You, you believe what you post - and with nothing whatsoever to back up what you assume.

That man who could easily kill ? You're still him. You dehumanize pretty much everyone, which is what makes the idea of killing so easy.

So, why do you do it ? It's an ego boost, to think you're better than everyone. It's that banal, that trivial. And it fits with your clinical paranoia.

So, whatever. That mask you wear slipped off, and YOU showed up and posted this:

Most of the people I know want state involvement in everyday life. They
expect the government to take care of their children (negligent, unloving and lazy)
to decide what's good to eat (without common animal sense)
what medicines they can take (ignorant and stupid)
how they can make a living (natural slaves).
essentially how to live life (terminally unfit).

They are uncomfortable with making decisions for themselves (slavish and stupid)
and seek to prevent others from doing so as well (brutish unthinking mobs).

They want to be told what to think and what to believe (eager victims).

They want to free themselves from as much responsibility as possible (lazy)

and avoid the repercussions of their mistakes (cowardly).

They want to stumble through life as ignorant children, secure in the notion that the government will protect them from all risk.

THIS IS WHAT YOU THINK OF THE 99% OF PEOPLE WHO DID NOT CHOOSE RON RAUL. And all because they do not think like you.

"To some, it would seem, that's the essence of democracy."

Yes, the inferior people who do not think like you - how DARE they create a society and not bend to your whims !

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, March 6, 2009 9:55 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
To some, it would seem, that's the essence of democracy.

To some, that would seem the essence of Libertarianism.

Sarge, let's use YOUR analogy: I hate being forced to participate in something I disagree with. In this case, its smoking.

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It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Friday, March 6, 2009 10:01 AM

Hey rue,

I didn't read your post because, well it seemed pretty pointless. I'll assume you were calling me "arrogant" for have the nerve to express my opinion and *gasp* assume that I'm right.

Anyway, I can't really see any point in reading your nonsense until you can tell the difference between social commentary and personal attack. For edification:

If I express my opinion that our nation is morally bankrupt and no longer values the things I consider important, it's not a personal attack. It's social commentary.

If, however, I say that you are an ignorant, spiteful cunt who adds nothing to a discussion and merely trolls these boards to thread-crap on anything she doesn't agree with (and doesn't have the intelligence to argue against), well, THAT would be an insult and a personal attack. See the difference?

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Friday, March 6, 2009 10:04 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Sergeant,

Rues a LITTLE sensitive....just so you know.

Edit: Just read this part...

"If, however, I say that you are an ignorant, spiteful cunt who adds nothing to a discussion and merely trolls these boards to thread-crap on anything she doesn't agree with (and doesn't have the intelligence to argue against), well, THAT would be an insult and a personal attack. See the difference?"

BUUUUUURRRRRNNNNNNNN!

Man, I can smell the pork cooking over here...

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Friday, March 6, 2009 10:11 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

And Wulf, of course, is not.

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Friday, March 6, 2009 10:14 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
Hey rue,

I didn't read your post because, well it seemed pretty pointless. I'll assume you were calling me "arrogant" for have the nerve to express my opinion and *gasp* assume that I'm right.

Anyway, I can't really see any point in reading your nonsense until you can tell the difference between social commentary and personal attack. For edification:

If I express my opinion that our nation is morally bankrupt and no longer values the things I consider important, it's not a personal attack. It's social commentary.

If, however, I say that you are an ignorant, spiteful cunt who adds nothing to a discussion and merely trolls these boards to thread-crap on anything she doesn't agree with (and doesn't have the intelligence to argue against), well, THAT would be an insult and a personal attack. See the difference?

SergeantX

You really should read her post. It's brutal, maybe more so than necessary, but it would be constructive if you have the intestinal fortitude to consider it. It's where I was trying to go earlier with your same post - I was just slower and less blunt.

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Friday, March 6, 2009 10:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Edit: Just read this part...

"If, however, #######"

BUUUUUURRRRRNNNNNNNN!

Man, I can smell the pork cooking over here...

Oh, come on now. You can't take stuff out of context. That was very clearly a hypothetical for illustrative purposes only.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Friday, March 6, 2009 10:16 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"If, however, I say that you are an ignorant, spiteful cunt who adds nothing to a discussion and merely trolls these boards to thread-crap on anything she doesn't agree with (and doesn't have the intelligence to argue against), well, THAT would be an insult and a personal attack. See the difference?"

You throw crap my way, even in general, and I'll make SURE to throw it back - exactly where it came from. Remember - what goes around, comes around ...

BTW - my post wasn't meant for you. It won't help you as you have serious and probably unfixable personality issues. It's just my observations.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, March 6, 2009 10:17 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Well, the disdain that Wulf and Sarge hold for us common peeps just drips from every post. But they'll never see it. And that's prolly the reason why Ron Paul never WILL be Prez.

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It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Friday, March 6, 2009 10:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
You really should read her post. It's brutal, maybe more so than necessary, but it would be constructive if you have the intestinal fortitude to consider it. It's where I was trying to go earlier with your same post - I was just slower and less blunt.

Hehe, pizmo, on your suggestion, I tried, but I got to the second line: "That man who could easily kill ? You're still him. You dehumanize pretty much everyone, which is what makes the idea of killing so easy."

What do you do with that? She's got some issues. And I don't wanna get involved.

I'm plenty open to criticism, but for her it's all about personal attack. I'm not interested in playing. (although I recognize that it can be tremendously satisfying

)

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Friday, March 6, 2009 10:22 AM