Report Of Active Thermite Found At WTC Site by out2theblack

Being that I'm one of the people who maintains some skepticism about the official 9-11 story, I have to say I don't find the chemistry in this paper that suspicious.

Metal dust has been long known to be explosive, except, like other people have noted, there's plenty of sources both from the collision/explosion and during the clean-up. Arc welding and metal cutting often produces metallic dusts in large quantities. I know this because I'm involved in the clean-up of a couple of metal salvage yards with very high levels of metal contamination. Sampling through the clean-up period is bound to pick up on some of that introduced contamination.

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Monday, April 6, 2009 8:20 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
I applaud you as always, Anthony, for being articulate and level-headed. With this sort of hysterical conspiracy-theorist, however, Occam's Razor is totally useless.

[/sig]

Yes, but only because Occam was a Nazi-British-Knight-Illuminati-Jew-Mason, and his razor was part of the conspiracy from the outset!

Mike

Just lying smiling in the dark,
Shooting stars around your heart,
Dreams come bouncing in your head
pure and simple every time.
Now you're crying in your sleep;
I wish you'd never learnt to weep.
Don't sell the dreams you should be keeping
pure and simple every time.
"Pure", by Lightning Seeds

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Monday, April 6, 2009 8:58 AM

Indeed, Byte, but film and photo tell more than folk think - I don't need a chem analysis when I can quite clearly see the effects of a cutter charge on some of those girders in the wreckage backgrounding photos immediately after the event.

One look was all I needed.
As Anthony says, folk are overcomplicating something in fact very simple.

I'll note that I also caught something on high grade VHS tape during the waco incident no one believed at the time - I've used 40mm grenade launchers myself, and I know EXACTLY what a 40mm shell in flight looks like, and during video coverage, which we were taping, spotted a very clear visual of one passing through the frame as that halfass tank smashed the front wall.

Now we know the truth, that they fired several HUNDRED of them, but consider how rabidly the use of them at all was initially denied, and how many folk bought that ?

Compare also the evaluation of the "Don't Tase Me" incident here, and how no one spotted the officer pointing his M26 at the kids head till I pointed it out.

All it takes to blow up most bullshit stories is a single image contradicting the official story, beyond that is just mucking up the issue, and I've no doubt there's folks wishing to bury this who are doing just that, for that exact purpose.

Aircraft impacts do not CUT beams at a 45 degree angle in perfectly straight lines, period.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Monday, April 6, 2009 9:21 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"It's really any sort of manufacturing/engineering taking place at the nanometre scale ..."

That includes zinc oxide and titanium dioxide sunscreen using ultra-small particles.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Monday, April 6, 2009 9:28 AM

Which is very concerning, Frem, I agree.

But I think the question here is whether the metal concentrations are consistent with intentionally set explosives or with metal dust from the event and the clean-up, and I'm finding it rather inconclusive on the explosive side.

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Monday, April 6, 2009 10:52 AM

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Can anyone confirm that thermite was used during demolition activities?

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Monday, April 6, 2009 11:24 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"The red material contains grains approximately 100 nm across which are largely iron oxide, while aluminum is contained in tiny plate-like structures. Separation of components using methyl ethyl ketone demonstrated that elemental aluminum is present. The iron oxide and aluminum are intimately mixed in the red material."

It sounds like it could be paint to me. Seriously.

Iron oxide is commonly used as a pigment (colorant), and aluminum flakes for providing a light and oxygen barrier to preserve the paint resin (binder). (I developed a non-destructive method to quantitate aluminum flake - or plate - in paints.) Here's an example of how aluminum flake is used in paints: "Leafing aluminum flake is used in corrosion-resistant paints for steel structures ..."

It's too bad they used up the samples determing the metals since they could have done that non-destructively with XRF and XRD. And a non-destructive FTIR analysis of the binder would have proved conlusively what it was made for. If there was common paint resin present it could have been shown to be paint.

The other reason why I think paint is b/c the layers were so thin - not enough to do anything serious, but about the right thickness for an architectural coating.

If the flakes WERE paint, I think it would give formulators serious cause for rethinking their mixes. Some types of paints could then be shown to be fire-enhancers.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Monday, April 6, 2009 11:32 AM

Quote:
titanium dioxide

I twitch every time I hear those words...

That's what that horrific chem plant I worked security for MADE, using both Sulphate and Chloride processes at opposite ends of the plant, which involves some brutally toxic stuff like the infamous "Tickle" aka Titanium Tetrachloride, which is so ubelievable lethal even at 1ppm, Chlorine, Hydrogen Chloride, high concentration Hydrogen Peroxide, Sulphuric Acid and various byproducts...

Enough of which end up in the local biosphere to kill anything alive, and in the atmosphere in sufficient quantity to require a vehicle rinse before exiting the plant - and yet, no respiratory protection was ever even considered, much less offered.

And heaven help the neighborhood downwind.

Supposedly the end product, TiO2, is safe, even as a food additive, but given my experience, by choice I avoid the damned stuff, yanno ?

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Monday, April 6, 2009 11:39 AM

From a chemical explosive analytic standpoint, what I'd be lookin for is sulphur, or known release products of HMX/Octol usually associated with cutter charges.

And right at about that point, my tech knowledge of the subject dead ends, they only taught me how to knock em down, not all the gory details of why it works that way or what the chemical result would be.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Monday, April 6, 2009 12:15 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I tend to avoid TiO2 for anything except paint. That's b/c it, all by itself, is a catalyst that breaks down organic material (read skin) in the sun.

OTOH, as a paint pigment, you couldn't hope for anything better. The tiny crystals have SUCH an ability to bend light (refractive index) that they scatter every ray that tries to make it through - making the paint super white and giving it incredible hiding power.

Don't knock your experience Frem. You know a lot more about a lot of things than I do. We just have different areas of expertise, is all.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Monday, April 6, 2009 3:17 PM

Ayep, that we do, and one of the reasons I avoid sounding like an idiot, is having the good sense to both admit it and limit comment when operating outside my knowledge base.

I can tell you half a million ways to put a guy on an slab or an OR table, but not a single one to get him off still kickin - and yet, with a little translation, that opens up a while vista about anatomy, does it not ?

Anyhows, I don't need a micro-precise examination of every scrap of evidence to know the official story is bullshit, in fact just one single image is all it took.

-F

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Monday, April 6, 2009 4:04 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
...in fact just one single image is all it took.

-F

Links?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Tuesday, April 7, 2009 7:47 AM

Note the 45-cut beam in the background.

This is a demo crew installing a cutter charge, aka LSC or Linear Shaped Charge, for building demo.

Believe me, the moment I saw the top image, I knew.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Tuesday, April 7, 2009 8:18 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

So?

I know a lot of folks want to say that the government did this on purpose....but why?

We all saw the planes crash into the buildings.

If there were charges, do you suppose they detonated them to bring the building down in a controlled manner?

Remember, when the FIRST terrorist attack happened at the World Trade Center, the van was full of nerve agents and chemical nastiness. The heat from the explosion pretty much burned it up.

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Tuesday, April 7, 2009 8:47 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

That could have been cut at any time. Besides there's more to demolition than just setting charges. I find the concept that no one noticed demolition experts crawling over the building prior to the attacks a lot harder to believe than they were hit by aircraft eventually leading to catastrophic failure.

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Tuesday, April 7, 2009 8:55 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
So?

I know a lot of folks want to say that the government did this on purpose....but why?

We all saw the planes crash into the buildings.

If there were charges, do you suppose they detonated them to bring the building down in a controlled manner?

Remember, when the FIRST terrorist attack happened at the World Trade Center, the van was full of nerve agents and chemical nastiness. The heat from the explosion pretty much burned it up.

9.11 -- TWO WORDS:

OPERATION NORTHWOODS - the signed confession by US Govt for perping terrorist attacks in USA
www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/doc1.pdf
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1
www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/Northwoods.html

www.mackwhite.com/northwoods.html

WTC 1993 - TWO WORDS:

EMAD SALEM was paid $1-million by FBI and given the bomb by FBI that killed 6 people at WTC in 1993, and FBI refused to substitute fake explosives, proven in court and NY Times by 100 hours of secret audiotape:
www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/wtcbomb.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emad_Salem

Quote:
"I did watch the film of Building 7 going down and in my opinion there's no doubt that that building was brought down with demolition."
-Governor Jesse Ventura, Navy SEAL bomber, Alex Jones Radio show, April 2, 2008
http://prisonplanet.com/articles/april2008/040208_jesse_ventura.htm

"I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks.”
—Usama bin Laden, CNN, "Bin Laden says he wasn't behind attacks," September 17, 2001

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming."
—Dick Cheney, "Interview of the Vice President by Tony Snow", March 29, 2006

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/03/20060329-2.html

"'We are benefiting from one thing, and that is the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq,' Ma'ariv quoted the former prime minister as saying. He reportedly added that these events 'swung American public opinion in our favor.'"
Haaretz, Netanyahu says 9/11 terror attacks good for Israel, 16 April 2008
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/975574.html

"The FBI added Adam Gadahn to the Most Wanted Terrorist list and the U.S. State Department is offering a reward up to $1 million for his arrest. A 28-year-old California man has been indicted on federal charges of treason and providing material support to a terrorist group for making a series of propaganda videotapes for al Qaeda, including one in which he praised the hijackers involved in the 9/11 attacks. 'Adam Gadahn represents a new breed of home-grown extremist, who has chosen to betray the country of his birth,' FBI Executive Assistant Director Willie Hulon said during a press conference Wednesday in Washington, D.C."
FBI Most Wanted
http://www.fbi.gov/page2/oct2006/gadahn101106.htm

"In Sept of last year, Adam Gadahn [aka Adam Perlman], the son of Jewish parents, the son of Jewish grandparents [who are on the board of directors of Jewish ADL] in Southern California, who himself converted to Islam, went on to become Osama Bin Laden's spokesman."
-Congresswoman Jane Harman (D-CA), Jewish chairman
Homeland Security Subcommittee on Intelligence, Information Sharing, and Terrorism Risk Assessment
CSPAN, Use of the Internet by Terrorists: Using the Web as a Weapon for 9/11 Truth, November 6, 2007
www.piratenews.org/flight93.html

"A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, no question about it."
—George Bush Jr

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on."
-George W Bush, Gridiron Dinner, March 2001

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Tuesday, April 7, 2009 9:03 AM

Not that I'm saying I think the WTC was controlled demolition (I actually don't, my issue is more bafflement how the steel structure gave way despite engineering controls), or that I think the first WTC bombing was government endorsed...

But I thought I heard something about demolition teams going into the WTC to investigate the bomb threat for the first bombing, and finding nothing.

Most people tend to filter out a lot as they go about their day. We walk right on by those construction crews and pay no mind to what they're working on until someone yells "look out!" or there's a loud noise.

And there's something to be said in favor of a bomb squad that doesn't cause mass panic when they go about looking.

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Tuesday, April 7, 2009 9:20 AM

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1

@ Operation Northwood: It never ceases to terrify me the mentality of the guys on top of the industrial-military complex.

They're doing what's best for the American people all right... So long as you're not one of the American people they want to send off to war, or add to a death count.

They make movies to make FUN of this kind of crap, because it's not supposed to be REAL.

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Tuesday, April 7, 2009 9:29 AM

Quote:
Remember, when the FIRST terrorist attack happened at the World Trade Center, the van was full of nerve agents and chemical nastiness. The heat from the explosion pretty much burned it up.

Not true, Wulfie.

The first bombing was in fact an ANFO bomb, built out of materials sold directly to the terrorist group run by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed through FBI plant Emad Salem, who was also the expert who set it up and wired it properly - he offered to sabotage it, but the FBI forbid him to, which made him suspicious and be began tape recording conversations with his handler.

The FBI themselves provided the terrorists with the explosive, the plans, and an expert to wire it up, and then forbade him to sabotage it, directly resulting in the basement explosion in the WTC in 1993, which contained no chemical or biological weapon residue whatsoever, such rumors were initially spawned in a couple of radical-right sites who also initially claimed partial credit, but were dismissed as just talking shit.

The bastards humped it to Pakistan afterwords, which we let em cause the FBI didn't tell no one about this, and KSM had worked for us in much same fashion OBL aka "Tim Osman" had here and there, so they let him leave...

The Pakistani ISI didn't care for this asshole in their country, and so they contacted the US Diplomatic Security Service, and in a joint operation with a properly served warrant, arrested him and seized a sizeable amount of materials from his residence.

And in a by-the-book non physical interrogation, managed to get a great deal of useful, actionable intel out of the guy which was corroborated by boxes of documents seized at the same time, ole KSM liked to talk smack, so he was pretty easy to crack.

And then they just backfiled it, and let the boxes of documents rot on a warehouse floor somewhere cause they were too busy spying on and harrassing americans to do their goddamn job, and when Bojinka unfolded for real, tried to play dumb until sources within the agencies involved leaked their foreknowledge to various members of the press.

As of late, we've ruined KSM as a source of intel cause they sent him down to gitmo for a round of waterboarding, whereupon his testimony from that point became incoherent and unreliable, up to and including confession to acts that had already been solved (though not to his knowledge) and acts that he quite literally could not have committed since at least one of them occured while he was in custody.

Emad Salem, smart enough to realize he was being set up as a patsy, contacted other, rival agencies and wrangled the turf dispute into a WITPRO reccommendation and got his ass under a rock somewhere before any of the fallout landed on HIM, but not before handing those tapes over to contacts in those agencies and the media.

But the WTC 1993 bombing blame lies soley at the feet of the FBI, every word of what I just stated is proven fact on official record - they gave a bunch of known terrorists explosives and an expert to wire them, KNOWING what their intentions were, and then allowed them by intent or negligence to detonate them.

How that doesn't make em responsible is beyond me.

Whatever source spun you that faery tale, I suggest you blacklist it.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Tuesday, April 7, 2009 9:39 AM

Ah, there we go. I KNEW I'd heard something about the first bombing and our bomb experts like that. Couldn't remember what it was. Thanks Frem.

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Tuesday, April 7, 2009 9:43 AM

I see PN beat me to the punch a little, regarding WTC 1993 and Emad Salem - folks don't give that boy enough credit sometimes.

And yes, good ole Adam Pearlmans laughable threat, given that he's working a subsistence level job in orange county and has no real social contacts worth a damn - besides the fact that if *I* know where he lives and works, so too do the feds.

Just another Emmanuel Goldstein to keep up the booga-booga.

Re: Cutter charge placement.

I always kinda wondered if these things might not have been built in or retro-installed as a kind of unfortunately brutal safety measure in the case of a building about to topple onto others and cause massive casualties...

It makes sense when you think about it a little, but when you think about it more - it don't, cause it's logistically impossible.

But I am sure some folk have thought it.

Oh, and just to throw another spanner in the works, tell me who was in charge of security at the time in question said charges would have had to be laid, eh ?

Oh and why not mention the Odigo warning ?
http://s3.amazonaws.com/911timeline/2001/wpost092801.html

Or the stock trades ?

Or Urban Moving Systems, a Truck with explosive residue and a bunch of quickly-deported foreign nationals who were dancing as they live taped the event ?

Or that such obvious foreknowledge always leads back in a single direction ?

Doesn't mean they had nothin to do with it, only that they knew it was comin - and didn't have the decency to tell us, or if they did, then our own people took no action to prevent it.

None of that is proof of anything but that certain folk knew well in advance this was going to happen - but that proof ALONE is sufficient to destroy the official story.

I doubt WE will ever find out what truly happened any more than those at the time found out what really happened to the USS Maine, or in the Gulf of Tonkin...

But from a historical perspective, precedent says the official story is a lie, and there's enough proof disputing it to make THAT a no brainer.

What the truth is, is that the folks in power are lying to us, deliberately and with malice aforethought.

THAT, is the TRUTH.

And that, folks, is enough for me right there.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Tuesday, April 7, 2009 1:46 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Note the 45-cut beam in the background.

Now just some procedural questions.

When was this picture taken? Who took it? Is there any chain of evidence that connects it directly to the WTC site? Is there any evidence that it was taken immediately after the building collapse? Did anyone find or photograph the other half of this beam?

Sorry, but when I can find this image...

or this image...

I need to know the picture's real.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Tuesday, April 7, 2009 5:00 PM

Two sources for the photo, the book AFTERMATH,
http://www.amazon.com/Aftermath-World-Trade-Center-Archive/dp/07148465
54/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1239156845&sr=1-1
Also attributed to one E. Hufschmidt but likely he cribbed it from the above source.

The issue's been so muddied and probably on-purpose, that no related image is gonna be solid enough - but considering the mess back there, the high temps and fire hazards, NO demo crew would have gone back there and used a cutter charge due to the risk it would prematurely detonate - anyone who knows anything about it will tell you exactly the same.

And it's by far not the only image of ground zero available which casts doubt on the official story (if you can find any of the CNN coverage intact, you can see quite a few cut beams in the background), just one of the most dead-bang obvious cause it doesn't require but a bare minimum of explaination and technobabble which most folk can't even follow, much less judge the veracity of.

I still remember two points of that day, the first was as the initial aircraft struck the towers, a sense of complete failure to get folks to understand just how our foreign policy was gonna boomerang on us, and how all the wrong folks were now payin for it, combined with a sick, sinking feeling that true stupidity was soon to occur as the powers that be whipped the populace into a rage so they could fulfill a pre-destined agenda.

Remember, I knew what happened in WTC 1993 and who was really responsible, which is now a matter of official record despite being howled at for daring to say so at the time.

I damn well knew about PNAC/Clean Break before that happened, and when as it happened I was horrified both for what happened, and what was about to because wasn't nobody gonna listen to reason in the blind outrage which was about to result.

And then......

crack crack crack crack BANG.

And that sinking feeling got a whole lot worse.

Cause I knew, right there and then, what the hell I was lookin at, and just how fucked things were gonna get - and was just as well aware that in the resulting frenzy, wasn't nobody gonna listen to me.

So I turned the TV off and poured a glass of scotch, cause there really wasn't anything more I could do or say.

How it went down in detail, fucked if I could tell you, especially now that those responsible have had seven years to muddy the issue - but I DO know the official story is bullshit, knew that before they even cooked it up, not that it matters any.

The fact that the powers that be are so very determined to stick with a story with so many great big gaping holes in it is by itself enough to cast suspicion and doubt sufficient to consider them suspect of negligence and incompetence if not outright involvement.

We don't know, likely never will know - though future generations might.

But we DO know they're lying to us.

And that's enough for me.

-Frem

PS. You'll note that I am offering no "theory" here, simply a valid, logical assessment based on a single facet that I happen to have more than a passing familiarity with, and I got my reasons for not offering more.

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Tuesday, April 7, 2009 6:52 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

Remember the pilot of the Lonegunmen, from March 4, 2001

" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson

Lets party like its 1939

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Tuesday, April 7, 2009 8:27 PM

SHINYGOODGUY

Okay, forget the conspiracy theories. Forget about Bush's dumbfounded reaction to the news the Towers were hit. Forget that we got the pictures of the people responsible for the attack so quickly. Forget all of the 'nutjobs' out there spewing 'venom' and 'lies' about those in office during this attack.

Let's just concentrate on the "official" word that the towers were toppled by the intense heat of the jet fuel. I have a question. How is it that 2 planes, a fifth of the size of the steel and concrete towers, who's impact initially caused damage to the area immediately surrounding said impact zone, can carry enough fuel to burn down the steel and concrete structure?

Summarizing:

We have assumed that the entire 3,500 gallons of jet fuel was confined to just one floor of the World Trade Center, that the jet fuel burnt with perfect efficency, that no hot gases left this floor, that no heat escaped this floor by conduction and that the steel and concrete had an unlimited amount of time to absorb all the heat.

Then it is impossible that the jet fuel, by itself, raised the temperature of this floor more than 257° C (495° F).

Now this temperature is nowhere near high enough to even begin explaining the World Trade Center Tower collapse.

It is not even close to the first critical temperature of 600° C (1,100° F) where steel loses about half its strength and it is nowhere near the quotes of 1500° C that we constantly read about in our lying media.

"In the mid-1990s British Steel and the Building Research Establishment performed a series of six experiments at Cardington to investigate the behavior of steel frame buildings. These experiments were conducted in a simulated, eight-story building. Secondary steel beams were not protected. Despite the temperature of the steel beams reaching 800-900° C (1,500-1,700° F) in three of the tests (well above the traditionally assumed critical temperature of 600° C (1,100° F), no collapse was observed in any of the six experiments."

Quote from the FEMA report (Appendix A).

Recalling that the North Tower suffered no major structural damage from the intense office fire of February 23, 1975, we can conclude that the ensuing office fires of September 11, 2001, also did little extra damage to the towers.

Here's that link:

http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/guardian2/wtc/how-hot.htm

I'm just saying

SGG

Tawabawho?

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Wednesday, April 8, 2009 6:27 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

The towers were built with a similar structure to tilt-up buildings. You don't have to melt the steel, or even cause a lot of structural damage. All you have to do is bend it ENOUGH to break the joints between the external walls and the span beams. And viola, the thing goes down, pancaking floor by floor - as has been demonstrated in many earthquakes.

This is not to say that the US government was totally blameless. I think they knew enough to know they needed to close their eyes and look away during the right time-frame, and take travel and stock precautions.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, April 8, 2009 8:50 AM

KWICKO

Quote:

This is not to say that the US government was totally blameless. I think they knew enough to know they needed to close their eyes and look away during the right time-frame, and take travel and stock precautions.

That's about where my mindset is on the whole matter. The U.S. gubmint didn't have to be complicit in the attack; their selective ignorance is plenty damning enough evidence against them.

Mike

Just lying smiling in the dark,
Shooting stars around your heart,
Dreams come bouncing in your head
pure and simple every time.
Now you're crying in your sleep;
I wish you'd never learnt to weep.
Don't sell the dreams you should be keeping
pure and simple every time.
"Pure", by Lightning Seeds

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Wednesday, April 8, 2009 9:14 AM