AURaptor I have a question... by RiveR6213

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

AURaptor I have a question...

POSTED BY: RIVER6213
UPDATED: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 02:09
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 13325
PAGE 6 of 7

Wednesday, April 8, 2009 1:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

So, you'll buy satellite imagery when it supports what ever dubious claim you have, that we gave Saddam the green light, but you'll dismiss it, totally out of hand, when it shows suspicious activity at supposed WMD sites.

Not a bit of it.

At this point I'm jus' feeding the troll.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, April 8, 2009 2:00 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Why do you assume they were degraded ?

Uh... because modern science tells me so? Just like it tells me that tubes made for uranium centrigfuges need high tensile strength? But, FYI- I worked on a chemical weapons detection project a while back. Got to talk with the experts from Maryland. Yep, they degrade. Any more questions?

Quote:
And even if they were, Saddam wasn't going to have them sitting there , in his country , to be found by the U.S.

DING! DING! DING!

WE HAVE A WINNER!

And even if they degraded, Sadam wouldn' be sitting on them PERIOD. Why move your trash to another nation? Why would the other nation accept it? Why bury it? It's just a liability.

Quote:
He'd only be making our case for us. Don't underestimate the lengths a tyrant would go to. He did light off over 700 oil wells.

One thing I'm NOT underestimating is the apparent lengths to which you will go to confabulate. Sending off or burying degraded WMD is just crazy. So either Saddam was crazy... or you are.

Quote:
I think you're crazy, Sig. Seriously. You keep asking the same question over and over, even after the answer has been given.

Problem is, I keep expecting an answer that makes sense. When will you come up with something that you've at least glancingly screened for plausibility?
---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Wednesday, April 8, 2009 2:12 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Sig, you mistake me for being some hell bent apologist for Bush, some sort of PR spin doctor for his cause.

I'm not, nor have I ever claimed to be. Sorry, but you have me confused w/ someone else.

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Wednesday, April 8, 2009 2:34 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Sig, you mistake me for being some hell bent apologist for Bush, some sort of PR spin doctor for his cause. I'm not, nor have I ever claimed to be. Sorry, but you have me confused w/ someone else.

Sorry, but I never said you were an apologist for Bush. I just can't believe that you really believe what you're saying. You appear to have had a deep-seated and sincere desire to invade Iraq. But when I ask "Why?" you seem to have no fundamental reasons.

Yanno, if you ask someone "Why" long enough, by about the fifth or sixth "Why?" people either reach insight or they run out of reasons. You? You can't even get past the second "Why"! Every reason you suggest falls apart on simple questioning. Surely, you must have something more than that on which to base such a momentous decision, such an expenditure of human lives and money! And if you don't, you might want to ask yourself "Why not"?

And in the fuure, you might want to sit down and ask YOURSELF- Why do I think that? And after you answer THAT question, ask yourself And why do I think THAT? and just keep going. You don't need to tell anyone else but yourself the answers, but at least you'll learn something.

I'm done with this thread. Thanks for participating.
---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Wednesday, April 8, 2009 2:40 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

This conversation, no, this ISSUE has been done to death, raised, killed off again, and raised and killed again.

I've said all I have to say on the issue, many times over. I don't know why you want keep badgering me on all this. Honestly, what the hell is it to you now , 6 yrs after the fact ?

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Wednesday, April 8, 2009 2:52 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Because I still keep expecting you to make logical, factual, or strategic sense.

Shall I repeat to you what you've said?

Quote:
paraphrased
Saddam had aluminum tubes. (Yeah, but the wrong ones)
There were many UN Resolutions.
The process was tiresome.
His time was up.
He had WMD back in 1980.
He shipped his WMD to Syria, or buried it.
He showed intent.

All of this... except that last reason which has some predictive value... is restrospective, historical. But yanno, you can't change history. You can only affect current circumstances to hopefuly change the future. I am assuming that you thought invasion was necessary because you were attempting to avoid something in the future, or create something for the future. Maybe I used the wrong word when I asked for a reason. What I'm looking for, hoping for, is a PURPOSE. So, I guess I'm going to ask you one last time (Please fill in the blank)

"We had to invade Iraq because otherwise _________ would ___________" Or, rephrased into a more proactive tone We had to invade Iraq and depose Saddam in order to ____________"

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Wednesday, April 8, 2009 3:06 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Are you capable of filling in those blanks?

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Wednesday, April 8, 2009 5:00 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Got to talk with the experts from Maryland.

Hope you took a shower after, those are some of the creepiest, slimiest folk I've ever met in my life, and their safety precautions are somewhat less than sterling besides...
*shudder*

I do NOT like those people - at least the ones down at Aberdeen have some excuse to be semi-slapdash mad scientist types, but there's no room for it when dealing with stuff that can spread lethality outside of the test range.

-F

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Wednesday, April 8, 2009 11:52 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Are you capable of filling in those blanks?

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

I already played this game once. Maybe you missed this reply ?

Quote:
We had to remove Sadam because IT WAS BELIEVE BY THE BUSH ADMIN AND MANY OTHERS IN THE PREVIOUS ADMIN THAT Saddam would likely sell/share his WMD info w/ terrorist or hostile nations. Saddam had already invaded or attacked 4 of his neighbors, including launching Scuds at Israel, which was completely outside of the conflict, and had no role what so ever in the invasion of Iraq.

I no longer am playing. You have your answers.

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Thursday, April 9, 2009 3:35 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Well, I guess in the flurry of answers it was a little hard to pick out THE answer, so thank you for that.

Is this a true statement of YOUR purpose, or is this what you think BUSH'S goal was? I just want to be clear.

Thanks

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Thursday, April 9, 2009 11:28 AM

RIVERDANCER

We can all agree that Saddam Hussein was a pus-filled blister. Whether that blister posed a serious threat of imminent death might be a question, considering how long it was hanging around, but it was definitely not a healthy thing. Whether that particular blister was worse than any of the other blisters in the world is also a question, but many people have asked it so I won't dwell on that point.

Here's my question, since I haven't seen anyone make this point:

Saddam is dead. His sons are dead. He and his line have been taken out. Blister popped.
Why are occupying troops still there?

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Thursday, April 9, 2009 11:35 AM

BYTEMITE

I guess, for some mind-boggling reason, he had his supporters.

But I honestly don't think his supporters have the capacity to overthrow the government we installed, and I don't think they even have considered who among them they want to place in power once they do. No longer term plan that I'm aware of, no political demands except for us leaving, no centralized leader calling the shots who could direct a military coup.

Kind of strange, really. At the risk of stating the obvious, I think they're just continuing to fight out of spite.

EDIT: Oh wait, was that for AURaptor? It sounded like a question being posed to everyone generally. Sorry if I misinterpretted that.

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Thursday, April 9, 2009 11:50 AM

RIVERDANCER

I suppose it could be that. But if troops just stay for as long as they find some sort of battle, then it's indeed true that they'll never get to leave. I think, perhaps, the continued fight isn't for anything except being tired of an occupying force patrolling their streets. The stated mission was to depose Saddam (someone correct me if I'm wrong). So, Saddam has been deposed, and executed. With that stated mission completed, a withdrawal would likely have fostered a much kinder opinion of the U.S. and its troops in the hearts and minds of most Iraq citizens than a continued presence has. A peacekeeping timeframe is somewhat understandable, but at this point that timeframe has surely expired. Iraq is its own country and must, at some point, be left to its own devices when it comes to law and keeping the peace. Maybe it won't work out for them, it's certainly an unstable region in general, but no outside force is going to stop that. Trying for more stability in a country not your own goes from noble to foolish rather quickly, and sparks some visible hostility.
Occupation of Iraq is no longer necessary, fruitful in any way, or at all wise. Innocent people are dying, no matter the efforts to prevent it, and at the same time citizens of the U.S. are also dying. This seems a losing proposition and has been since the execution of Saddam Hussein, if not before.
So, again, I don't see what troops are still doing there.

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Thursday, April 9, 2009 12:33 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:

Kind of strange, really. At the risk of stating the obvious, I think they're just continuing to fight out of spite.

Which is pretty much how I would summarize our foreign policy under Bush: Fight out of Spite!

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Thursday, April 9, 2009 12:39 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Iraq is its own country and must, at some point, be left to its own devices when it comes to law and keeping the peace. Maybe it won't work out for them, it's certainly an unstable region in general, but no outside force is going to stop that.

Ironically, had it been left to its own devices and the UN sanctions, and had we NOT invaded and occupied Iraq, the region would likely be MORE stable today. By seeking to "spread democracy" and impose stability, we've managed to spread only chaos, and impose only instability on the region.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Thursday, April 9, 2009 12:40 PM

BYTEMITE

Yeah, I pretty much agree. I don't see much point in staying much longer either. I was just trying to answer your question.

Of course, I suspect the recent upsurge in violence is just going to make everyone start talking about how the situation isn't settled yet, and we need to stay longer.

I understand that we don't like just letting people kill each other (except, apparently, Africa, because we just let genocides happen). And maybe the global community does have a moral obligation to intervene. But on the other hand, America always seems to end up doing the brunt of the peacekeeping work, having the biggest military, and we loose the brunt of the soldiers. I don't like all the dying and killing in general.

So... Do we need to settle it? If so, how? That's what I want to know.

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Thursday, April 9, 2009 1:33 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

WE can't. We have several options:

1) Exit, let the two Shiites (Maliki and Sadr) decide which one of them is going to be dictator, and leave the Sunnis to face their fate

2) Re-arm and re-organize the Sunnis (which we're already doing) so that they can bring the Shiites to a stalemate and gain SOME sort of representation in the government

3) Formally split the nation into three regions.

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Thursday, April 9, 2009 1:44 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Well, I guess in the flurry of answers it was a little hard to pick out THE answer, so thank you for that.

Is this a true statement of YOUR purpose, or is this what you think BUSH'S goal was? I just want to be clear.

Thanks

Please, don't ask me to crawl inside W's head. And none of this in the LEAST has been a " statement of MY purpose". That's an entirely different thread.

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Friday, April 10, 2009 6:29 AM

BYTEMITE

I vote number three, although then we have to figure out a way to keep them from invading each other afterward.

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Friday, April 10, 2009 6:38 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

So if you're not speaking for Bush and you're not speaking for yourself... who ARE you speaking for?

BTW- I asked you for YOUR opinion, YOUR goals. Do you have any?

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Friday, April 10, 2009 8:38 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

OOOOH ! I know ! I know !

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, April 10, 2009 8:41 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Hush, Rue! Don't tell rapo the answer. This is to see if he can speak for himself, or if he reaches into his mind and finds... the inside of a sock.

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Friday, April 10, 2009 9:03 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Select to view spoiler:

But I know the answer !

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, April 10, 2009 9:07 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

TO RAPO

Quote:
So if you're not speaking for Bush and you're not speaking for yourself... who ARE you speaking for?-Signy

But, I know the answer- Rue

Yes, dear. Now hush.
---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Friday, April 10, 2009 9:47 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

So rapo, as I asked before: If you're not speaking for Bush and you're not speaking for your own beliefs, self-interests, feelings and/or thoughts, who ARE you speaking for?

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Friday, April 10, 2009 2:43 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Please, don't ask me to crawl inside W's head. And none of this in the LEAST has been a " statement of MY purpose". That's an entirely different thread.

Your statement baffles me. You seem to be saying that you're neither expressing what you think is Bush's prupose, nor are you expressing yours.

So -if you're not speaking for Bush, and you're not speaking for yourself ... who ARE you speaking for? And, what was YOUR purpose in supporting the invasion of Iraq?

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Friday, April 10, 2009 2:50 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY

But according to you, you already know the answer. So the constant bumping and questions are an attempt to...

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Friday, April 10, 2009 3:02 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Get Rapo to think, what else?

It's called the Socratic Method. You might have heard of Socrates?

Quote:
The Socratic Method (or Method of Elenchus or Socratic Debate), named after the Classical Greek philosopher Socrates, is a form of philosophical inquiry in which the questioner explores the implications of others' positions, to stimulate rational thinking and illuminate ideas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method

And yes, I know, nobody likes a smarty-pants. But the problem is, most right-wingers haven't really thought about what they believe, why they believe it, and what it means. What they believe, they believe sincerely and with great passion but...

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Friday, April 10, 2009 3:48 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
But the problem is, most right-wingers haven't really thought about what they believe, why they believe it, and what it means. What they believe, they believe sincerely and with great passion but...

Wow. I mean just wow.

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Friday, April 10, 2009 3:54 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:

Wow. I mean just wow.

Apostrophes can be quite startling sometimes.
Oh wait- that's epiphanies... you know what I mean.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, April 10, 2009 4:14 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
But the problem is, most right-wingers haven't really thought about what they believe, why they believe it, and what it means. What they believe, they believe sincerely and with great passion but...

Wow. I mean just wow.

Eureka! He's had an awakening!

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Friday, April 10, 2009 4:20 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Unless it was snark. It could always be snark.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, April 10, 2009 7:55 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

My guess is snark...

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Saturday, April 11, 2009 2:16 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
So if you're not speaking for Bush and you're not speaking for yourself... who ARE you speaking for?

BTW- I asked you for YOUR opinion, YOUR goals. Do you have any?

Yes, and they are my own.

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Saturday, April 11, 2009 3:39 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

SO, you come to the board not to anonymously discuss YOUR goals and YOUR opinions but to foist someone else's opinions on us?

WHOSE?

BTW we all know the answer to that one. Rue was going to post it, but I stopped her.

You have a SERIOUS mental problem, son. What I get out of this is that you're paranoid and you're a human sock puppet. Like I predicted several posts up: You reached inside your mind and found the inside of a sock. If you're here to proselytize The Word and you're afraid of letting on, don't worry. We've ALL got you figured out for a ditto-head.

Several pieces of advice, son:

The questions that I asked shouldn't be hard to answer. (As a refresher, those questions were: What are YOUR opinions? What is YOUR purpose behind YOUR decision?) PRACTICE THAT - in privacy if necessary- until it becomes second nature. Stop being an empty sock, just waiting for someone to fill your brain with their opinion.

IT'S OK TO THINK. THERE IS NO DOWNSIDE. You won't lose money, it won't make you sick, you'll still keep all of your friends.

------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Saturday, April 11, 2009 4:15 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
What I get out of this is that you're paranoid and you're a human sock puppet.

The term is meat puppet

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Saturday, April 11, 2009 4:31 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Sig, I'm not foisting ANYONE'S goals here, just commenting on what others have done. That's kinda the point, right ?

The more you accuse me of having some sort of 'serious mental problem', the less and less credible any of your comments are received. You simply can't accept the views of anyone who doesn't see things your way, so you accuse them of being disturbed. That in and of itself is disturbing.

You're not 'vindicated' in the least, because you predicted nothing. All you're doing is reinforcing your own self delusion.

Fact is, I think about this a great deal more than you, that much is clear.

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Saturday, April 11, 2009 4:46 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Sig, I'm not foisting ANYONE'S goals here, just commenting on what others have done. That's kinda the point, right ?

Yes, but those comments: Do they reflect what YOU think? You say NOT. Your "real" opinions and your "real" purpose is a deep secret. So either you're a meat puppet or a troll. Or you're so completely devoid of thought that you're papering over the vacuum by claiming its a "secret" ("I gotta secret and I won't tell") Sure. Whatever.

Sorry dude, but at this point that makes you not worth anyone's time, certainly not mine.

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Saturday, April 11, 2009 5:04 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Then why do you keep asking?

The point is, I've given my views, and you simply don't agree w/ them. I've not given my GOALS, as in my goals in life, because they're not relevant to this discussion. Why is that such an issue w/ you ?

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Saturday, April 11, 2009 5:14 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Last question first: Presumably, your views result from goals. You support the invasion of Iraq because you thought it would do something positive. You support Bush's (and presumably Obama's) shoveling money at the rich because you think it does something positive. If you DON'T have a link between opinions and goals, you've got a serious mental gap.

First question: I keep asking you because I hope it'll make you think.

What I find seriously silly is your close-to-the vest attitude ... on an anonymous DISCUSSION board, for cryin' out loud!

How insincere is THAT?

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Saturday, April 11, 2009 5:33 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Presumably, your views result from goals.

There's the flaw in your logic.

As a skeptic, I base my views on what is known. You might say my goals result from my views! But put aside the chicken and the egg talk for now.

In the build up to the Iraq war, I viewed Saddam a threat to not just the U.S., but the region , our allies and the general interest of the West. Based on the available information, I supported Bush on the belief that he'd take out Saddam and remove the threat. Not only directly, but by showing those in the region that we meant business, and weren't going to be dismissed, as so many in that part of the world has viewed us. It's 6 yrs since the war, and 18 since the initial war to liberate Kuwait. I've been over the entire scenario times uncounted, so excuse me if I'm unwilling to , ONCE AGAIN, go over the entire history of events for your state of mental well being. It's simply not going to happen, accept that, and move on.

As for 'shoveling $$ at the rich ', I'd like for you to clarify that more. Are you talking tax cuts ? Because in tax cuts, the $$ isn't COMING from the Government. And w/ Obama RAISING taxes on the rich, he's TAKING money , not shoving it at them.

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Saturday, April 11, 2009 5:43 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
18 since the initial war to liberate Kuwait.

Problem is that we could have intervened & stopped Saddam BEFORE he entered Kuwait, but then we wouldn't have been able to pound on him quite so hard after the fact, a little footnote so many seem to like to forget.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Saturday, April 11, 2009 6:07 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Rapo, a real skeptic would look at all kinds of information, and would also consider the source. A real skeptic questions everything. But you swallow the party line: hook, bait, sinker and all. You can't POSSIBLY claim to be a skeptic of any sort. And the fact that you cherry pick your information so heavily has caused you to make several serious errors... on Iraq and the economy... and you STILL haven't learned! So my advice is still: It's OK to think. It won't cost you anything.

AFA shoveling money at the rich: our taxes are going to the same bastards who got us in this mess to begin with. I think we should fire them all and take over.

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Saturday, April 11, 2009 6:46 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Rapo, a real skeptic would look at all kinds of information, and would also consider the source. A real skeptic questions everything. But you swallow the party line: hook, bait, sinker and all.

Demonstrably not true. I took, for example, the word of a CLINTON appointed CIA director as being credible. I took into consideration all the things DEMOCRATS said, as far back as 1998, concerning Saddam and his WMD. I also considered the murder of several thousand Kurds, by Saddam in his use of WMD.

Quote:
You can't POSSIBLY claim to be a skeptic of any sort.
But I am, despite your protest to the contrary. My skepticism predates all of this nonsense about Iraq, WMD or anything even connected to politics. My introduction into being a skeptic started in the mid 80's, at an event which I attended, where I later read in the papers accounts to be contrary to what was I saw first hand. Again, this was NON political. Since then, I've become familiar and fans of such renown skeptics as James Randi and Michael Shermer. Hope that's ok with you.

Quote:
And the fact that you cherry pick your information so heavily has caused you to make several serious errors... on Iraq and the economy... and you STILL haven't learned!

Actually, I've not 'cherry picked' in the least. I've just studied the issue so much more than merely accepting the MSM's template for how we should think.

Quote:
So my advice is still: It's OK to think. It won't cost you anything.
It would appear that you need to take your own advice. I've been doing it for well over 20 yrs.

Quote:
AFA shoveling money at the rich: our taxes are going to the same bastards who got us in this mess to begin with. I think we should fire them all and take over.

As far as the A.I.G. bonus issue goes, I don't care for it, one bit. But they were legally allowed that $$, thanks in large part to Chris Dodd. HE is the one which oversaw the language which allowed for the bonuses to be handed out, in full. Be pissed at him for WRITING that law. And I don't in the least bit buy that, as he claimed, that his hand was forced via the Treasury Dept. He's a Senator! Separation of rules, buddy! You're not beholden to what anyone in the Executive Branch tells you to do!

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Saturday, April 11, 2009 7:03 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I took, for example, the word of a CLINTON appointed CIA director as being credible.

I guess that's the difference between you and me. Unless someone can show me a GOOD REASON for saying what they say, it doesn't matter to me how many credentials they have to their name and what political party they belong to. Having listened to Feinstein (I know things that you don't know) and Rumsfeld (deployed east west north south somewhat of Baghdad and Tikrit) and Bush (We don't want to be surprised by a mushroom cloud) and the DOE (these tubes don't meet tensile strength specs) and Scott Ritter (we'd hand out the targets on a piece of paper the morning of the inspection) and Wilson (The documents contained the names of people no longer in government, and with misspelled names) I found the information from the latter group to be both more specific and more credible. Skepticism SHOULD spray in all directions.

AFA the AIG bonuses: that's a mere distraction. The whole bailout for banks and toxic asset purchase is simply pulling the various Boards' and CEOs'/ CFOs' bacon out of the fire. I think we should just let them fry.

But AFA as Dodd is concerned... you've really got an idee fixe about him, don't you? The blame goes to Rahm, and from there to Obama.

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Saturday, April 11, 2009 7:11 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Hey, I was responding to your charge that I was blindly following along with what the Bush admin. said. I showed you how blatantly false that was.

Joe Wilson lied, for that matter. so his cred is shot all to hell. That folks got some things wrong, or missed some things, isn't the debate. That happens in war, ALL THE TIME. But the body of evidence, even aside from the WMD issue, weighed heavily on one side. But even so, with all that, I could still see NOT going to war, and not having to call the President a LIAR. You could agree to everything that was promoted by the Admin, vote against the war, and still be a patriot, in my opinion. But the bulk of those who call Bush a liar, who were saying EXACTLY the same things about Saddam when Clinton was in office, but changed their tune only after Bush was elected, those are the ones who I feel are treasonist, who put party affiliation over the needs of the Nation.

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Saturday, April 11, 2009 9:06 PM

RIVER6213

Thanks for the answers to my questions AUraptor. It was exactly the the answers I expected from you, though it took a while for the answer pieces to complete itself.

I know what you are now so there is no reason for me to further communicate with you, nor waste any amount of time arguing with you. It was all done for me.

End of thread, and thank you all for participating.

-River

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Sunday, April 12, 2009 1:17 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

I answered you from the very start. It took you almost 2 weeks from the initial posting of this thread for you to come back and even respond, and you claim it took a while for ME to answer ?

That's something, to be sure.

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Sunday, April 12, 2009 2:19 AM

RIVER6213

You are foolish sir Auraptor. You are a foolish man and it is sad, but I forgive you for your foolishness.

Just be content that you are not foolish alone.

-River

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Sunday, April 12, 2009 2:43 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Your input to this thread is virtually zero, save for pointless insults and no exchange of views, thoughts, ideas, or core beliefs.

And you forgive ME ? Ha! That's funny.

Quote:
I know what you are now so there is no reason for me to further communicate with you, nor waste any amount of time arguing with you. It was all done for me.

End of thread, and thank you all for participating

Clearly, not the end of the thread.

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