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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

Just think - within a mere ten years of that "recklessness", America was the richest, most powerful nation on Earth - and remained so until at least 2001.

Seems like we could use some of that kind of reckless socialism right about now!

Mike

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By 1944, much of the major powers of the world had been bombed out, or had a major military campaigns ravage large parts of their land. The U.S. was the only major power that hadn't had any battles fought on its home ( mainland ) soil.

I guess you're in favor of breaking out a world war, and really hyping up the military industrial complex, to get us out of this fix, huh?

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Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
The Tea Parties were started by Ron Paul supporters.

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J.G. - Spokesperson for the wise and sophisticated Left, interviewed by NBC Sunday as an expert on the subject.

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Originally posted by rue:
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"This is about hating a black man in the White House. This is racism, straight up. That is nothing but a bunch of tea-bagging rednecks. And there is no way around that."

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Silence is consent.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
Well, tell that to banks, investment firms, hedge funds, and businesses which exist on credit (either giving or receiving). Also tell that to average person who can't buy a house or car without credit.

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There is also a continuing misuse of credit, both for speculation AND as part of "monetary policy".

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The question is: Does it even MATTER that the government creates a huge deficit? For example, did it matter that the government ran a HUGE deficit during the Great Depression and WWII? If not, why not? Would it matter TODAY?

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Originally posted by SignyM:
I see no tea-baggers have answered my questions.

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Originally posted by rue:
I never give anyone money on the street - not people with tables set up to collect for 'keeping kids off drugs', not even the Salvation Army at x-mas.

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We want an end to the Fed, an end to corruption, an end to hypocrisy and cronyism.

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Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
"This is about hating a black man in the White House. This is racism, straight up. That is nothing but a bunch of tea-bagging rednecks. And there is no way around that."


And this is why I hate liberals.

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

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Originally posted by rue:
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"This is about hating a black man in the White House. This is racism, straight up. That is nothing but a bunch of tea-bagging rednecks. And there is no way around that."

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Silence is consent.

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Who are you more proud of Rue? The low-life skank who said it, or the in-the-tank, one-sided propagandists at NBC, who once again embarass a once-respected news network by airing a delusional mental case like JG? I'll bet you're proud of both. Does she have any proof to support her assinine statements? Of course not. Like you, she just knows everything.

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Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:

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Originally posted by SignyM:
Well, tell that to banks, investment firms, hedge funds, and businesses which exist on credit (either giving or receiving). Also tell that to average person who can't buy a house or car without credit.

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You are trying to compare apples and oranges. The debt of the government is the supreme debt. There is no power higher to rely upon when a failure occurs. This is macroeconomics at it's most fundemental. Let me illistrate the ramifications of your different examples of groups wildly spending what they do not have.
1 person - Personal bankrupcy.
Small Business - Business bankrupcy with maybe 10-30 layoffs
Large Business - Same as above with hundreds of layoffs and impact on local economies
Megacorp - read the wiki entry for Enron
US government - Have you ever played Fallout?

The point is that the governments debt belongs to We The People. That's why the tea parties were held.

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There is also a continuing misuse of credit, both for speculation AND as part of "monetary policy".

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On this I agree. It has existed as long as humanity has engaged in commerce. The East India Co. of the 18th century got itself in trouble several times in this fashion. One of the reasons the Tea Act of 1773 came about was because of croneyism twixt EIC and Parliment. The act was to serve in part to force monoply on EIC tea and at the same time tax it. The result would be certain tax revenue for England and forced sales of EIC tea to help provide that company with an 18th century "bailout". Unfortinately for EIC it was the tea itself that was "bailed out" into Boston harbor.

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The question is: Does it even MATTER that the government creates a huge deficit? For example, did it matter that the government ran a HUGE deficit during the Great Depression and WWII? If not, why not? Would it matter TODAY?

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Answer: It matters on a titantic level. The value of our fiat currency is worth only what the worldwide reserve believes it to be worth. We think that just because we've sat atop the world economy since our grandparents were kids that it will always be that way. Let me illistrate something.

The country that has the strongest economy on the world stage is said to be the "World's Reserve". As we speak it is the USA in that position, but that wasn't always so. Each century before proffered a nation who rose to that level because they out-thought the previous one:

17th century: Spain. Spain outflanked all of Europe by hording tangibles looted from the americas. By the close of the 1600's they had so much bling all their wealth was stored in silver and gold...the goal of the era.

18th century: Holland. The dutch understood trading on a level not seen since the ancient greeks. With their prowess at it they were able to found powerful banks and outflank spain's wealth which gravitated to them. This is shown in HBO's John Adams when Adams in in Holland seeking a loan of 10 million Dutch Guilders for the US. The Dutch currency was the strongest in the world at the time.

19th century: England. England learned from Dutch prosperity and outdid them by adding to it a military. The British army in the 19th century was the strongest in the world and lead to a global empire.

20th Century: The US. The states were the first nation to understand that wealth would be vested in the nation that grew in tech faster than the others. Throughout the 20th century the USA was on the crest of the Tech wave.

21st Century: Just because we are on top doesn't mean it will be that way much longer. I fear that China has out-thought us by methodically buying up our debt over many decades. The day will come when asian powers will dictate American Policy. We did it to the English. They did it to the Dutch.

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
I think Aristotle's quote is better translated not as "TOLERANCE is the virtue of a dying society," but "COMPLACENCY is the virtue of a dying society." The tolerance there refers not to tolerance or intolerance of marginalized groups, but to tolerance of the actions of the government, whatever those actions might be.

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You are trying to compare apples and oranges. The debt of the government is the supreme debt. There is no power higher to rely upon when a failure occurs. This is macroeconomics at it's most fundemental.

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The point is that the governments debt belongs to We The People. That's why the tea parties were held.

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Published on Wednesday, April 15, 2009 by the Belfast Telegraph (UK)
1,500 Farmers Commit Mass Suicide in India

Over 1,500 farmers in an Indian state committed suicide after being driven to debt by crop failure, it was reported today.
The agricultural state of Chattisgarh was hit by falling water levels.
"The water level has gone down below 250 feet here. It used to be at 40 feet a few years ago," Shatrughan Sahu, a villager in one of the districts, told Down To Earth magazine
"Most of the farmers here are indebted and only God can save the ones who do not have a bore well."
Mr Sahu lives in a district that recorded 206 farmer suicides last year. Police records for the district add that many deaths occur due to debt and economic distress.

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Originally posted by rue:"for those who really are in love with the current system - wait till China really gets going.

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Sept 2008 will be regarded by historians, I think, as the beginning of the american decline.

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I have several ideas on what we can do quickly, but I have to get to work.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
In short, you've proven yourself both a worthy adversary AND a worthwhile ally.

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