The downfall of the right by SignyM

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The downfall of the right

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 02:42
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 4124
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Monday, April 27, 2009 10:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
You need to refer to HERO whether or not guys take Viagra want to take it?

You DO understand what Viagra is used for, yes?

Again, you miss the point.

But, like, you REALLY DO miss the point, that's what's so funny.
You need to watch this show:

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, April 27, 2009 11:25 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Not if me and mine got any say in the matter, Mikey.

And being that we've been planning it for twenty friggin years, we WILL have that say.

-F

Here's hoping you have that say, and that you're heard, loud and clear...

Quote:

They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom
For trying to change the system from within.
I'm coming now, I'm coming to reward them...
First we take Manhattan, and then we'll take Berlin.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Monday, April 27, 2009 11:28 AM

CHRISISALL

Leonard Cohen rocks.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, April 27, 2009 11:33 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Leonard Cohen rocks.

The laughing Chrisisall

Indeed. Wish I could've gone to see him. He was just here in Austin on his latest tour - his first in over fifteen years (and likely his last, since he is getting quite old now). Alas, the tickets started at $130 each, and I'm just not laying out that kind of jack for a 2-hour show.

By the way, the show DID sell out, and quickly, so they added another. Still couldn't afford the tix, though...

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 1:05 AM

RIPWASH

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
As for the whole "downfall of the right" idea... I just don't see it happening. The neo-conservative clique may be out of power for the moment, but they'll do what their kind have always done: adapt and come back. They'll morph into the next version of a modern "conservative" - whether that be hardcore evangelicals, hard-right neo-nazis, or some freaky amalgam of the two, or something more like Goldwater or Reagan.

That was my point earlier, as well. And, honestly, Kwicko, each party has done and will do exactly what you said here. Each party will change it's colors to fit what it feels is the direction it's base is moving toward. Right now, you're probably right about the GOP. A lot of people are concerned right now that the GOP has lost it's Conservative values, so there are a few politicians out there (and yes Sarah Palin is one of them, like it or not) that are going to be pushing that agenda forward. The GOP is looking to them to be the next "superstars" of the party because they are starting see that it's what their base wants from them. Right now the Dems are on top of the world, but if anything happens during this administration that causes people to question what they've been doing or what they've done in the past, then I wholeheartedly think that they will change the beat of their drum in a heartbeat also.

Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas

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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 2:10 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:

That was my point earlier, as well. And, honestly, Kwicko, each party has done and will do exactly what you said here. Each party will change it's colors to fit what it feels is the direction it's base is moving toward.

Oh, definitely. In no way did I mean to imply that either party hasn't done this. It's how they survive - evolution. Ooooh - maybe I shouldn't use that word in regards to conservatives...

Quote:
Right now, you're probably right about the GOP. A lot of people are concerned right now that the GOP has lost it's Conservative values, so there are a few politicians out there (and yes Sarah Palin is one of them, like it or not) that are going to be pushing that agenda forward.

And time will tell how successful they are in doing that. Reagan was tremendously successful in revitalizing his party, but he was a left-liberal-looney compared to the likes of Barry Goldwater. We'll see if the conservative movement tries to trudge into the 21st century, or if they decide to seek refuge in the 19th century.

Quote:

The GOP is looking to them to be the next "superstars" of the party because they are starting see that it's what their base wants from them. Right now the Dems are on top of the world, but if anything happens during this administration that causes people to question what they've been doing or what they've done in the past, then I wholeheartedly think that they will change the beat of their drum in a heartbeat also.

Agreed. There could well be "Obama Republicans" - and by that I mean not only Republicans who support Obama, but Democrats so turned off by him that they'll vote Republican given any reasonable alternative to Obama.

Personally, I'd like to see a viable third-party candidate come along. If Obama screws up (and he will; he has already), and if the Republicans CAN'T find their new direction, the stage is set for a third-party candidate to make some headway. Ross Perot might be a joke now, but he definitely made a difference in 1992. Just ask Bill Clinton and George H.W. Bush - Perot may well have been the deciding factor in that election.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 2:15 AM

RIPWASH

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Ross Perot might be a joke now, but he definitely made a difference in 1992. Just ask Bill Clinton and George H.W. Bush - Perot may well have been the deciding factor in that election.

Heehee. I voted for him. Seemed like the viable option at the time compared to the other two. He had a "down home" feel to him that I liked and he seemed to make a lot of sense.

Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas

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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 4:09 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Ross Perot might be a joke now, but he definitely made a difference in 1992. Just ask Bill Clinton and George H.W. Bush - Perot may well have been the deciding factor in that election.

Heehee. I voted for him. Seemed like the viable option at the time compared to the other two. He had a "down home" feel to him that I liked and he seemed to make a lot of sense.

Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas

Well, there ya go - we're really NOT that far apart. I voted for him in '92, too!

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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 4:11 AM

RIPWASH

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Well, there ya go - we're really NOT that far apart. I voted for him in '92, too!

Yeah . . . but I grew UP since then!

Just kidding!!!! LOL

Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas

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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 4:47 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:

That was my point earlier, as well. And, honestly, Kwicko, each party has done and will do exactly what you said here. Each party will change it's colors to fit what it feels is the direction it's base is moving toward.

Oh, definitely. In no way did I mean to imply that either party hasn't done this. It's how they survive - evolution. Ooooh - maybe I shouldn't use that word in regards to conservatives...

Quote:
Right now, you're probably right about the GOP. A lot of people are concerned right now that the GOP has lost it's Conservative values, so there are a few politicians out there (and yes Sarah Palin is one of them, like it or not) that are going to be pushing that agenda forward.

And time will tell how successful they are in doing that. Reagan was tremendously successful in revitalizing his party, but he was a left-liberal-looney compared to the likes of Barry Goldwater. We'll see if the conservative movement tries to trudge into the 21st century, or if they decide to seek refuge in the 19th century.

Quote:

The GOP is looking to them to be the next "superstars" of the party because they are starting see that it's what their base wants from them. Right now the Dems are on top of the world, but if anything happens during this administration that causes people to question what they've been doing or what they've done in the past, then I wholeheartedly think that they will change the beat of their drum in a heartbeat also.

Agreed. There could well be "Obama Republicans" - and by that I mean not only Republicans who support Obama, but Democrats so turned off by him that they'll vote Republican given any reasonable alternative to Obama.

Personally, I'd like to see a viable third-party candidate come along. If Obama screws up (and he will; he has already), and if the Republicans CAN'T find their new direction, the stage is set for a third-party candidate to make some headway. Ross Perot might be a joke now, but he definitely made a difference in 1992. Just ask Bill Clinton and George H.W. Bush - Perot may well have been the deciding factor in that election.

Mike

Sorry, but I disagree. Republicans are finished as a national party. May still win some local and state elections, but for national office they have no chance. The other side is too well organized and zealous to ever lose control of events and outcomes. Their machine has no "off-switch". It's still in full throttle mode, despite the election being won five months ago. There is absolutley almost nothing to counter or stop it.

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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 5:36 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Sorry, but I disagree. Republicans are finished as a national party. May still win some local and state elections, but for national office they have no chance. The other side is too well organized and zealous to ever lose control of events and outcomes. Their machine has no "off-switch". It's still in full throttle mode, despite the election being won five months ago. There is absolutley almost nothing to counter or stop it.

Sorry, Jongs, but no.

Republicans AS THEY EXIST TODAY might be done at the national level, but they'll adapt and evolve. The Republican party that elected Reagan is long gone, and the one that backed Bush just ran out of D.C. with its tail between its legs. But don't for a minute think that any of that cedes all power to the Democrats. Don't think it, and don't hope for it.

The Democratic "machine" does indeed have an off switch. It's called time and events. Time and events - some of his own making, some beyond his control - caught up to Bush and the NeoCons and cost them the seemingly insurmountable level of control they had back in 2002-2004. The same will happen to the Democrats in power today. That's a GOOD THING - you don't EVER want anything approachinig a "permanent majority"; it just leads nowhere good.

People wanted something different than what Bush and the Republicans were offering last year. In three years, or seven, they'll likely want something different again. Who knows? Maybe they'll look back with nostalgia on the good old days of Bush, the way so many seem to do with Reagan today.

The Republican party will likely change everything but their name - or, if they're fully convinced that their party is dead and gone, they'll change NOTHING about their party BUT the name, and they'll come back as The Patriot Party, or some other "all-American" kind of name. The one thing you can count on, though, is that people will want change - even from "Change". :)

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 5:42 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
If Obama screws up (and he will; he has already)

C'mon Mikey, Obama only screwed up because of Bush...(You'll keep AU off this thread forever talkin' non-partisan crap like that, embrace your inner left-loon, for 'Rappy's sake

)

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 5:53 AM

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Another B.S. partisan thread started by the Queen of generalizations.

Hear Hear.

And yet ppl just can't help but fill the thread with comment.

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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 6:31 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
If Obama screws up (and he will; he has already)
C'mon Mikey, Obama only screwed up because of Bush...(You'll keep AU off this thread forever talkin' non-partisan crap like that, embrace your inner left-loon, for 'Rappy's sake )

The laughing Chrisisall

Oh, trust me, Chris - Obama's fully capable of screwing up all on his own. His FISA decision has already proven me correct on that score!

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 6:32 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Another B.S. partisan thread started by the Queen of generalizations.
Hear Hear.

And yet ppl just can't help but fill the thread with comment.

Even the people who say they won't dignify the thread with any comment (no, not you, BSCM).

Kinda funny how that works, eh? We get drawn into the conversations we refuse to have...

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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 8:16 AM

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Honestly the orginal intent of the thread is unworthy in the extreme. These things are always controlled by the ebb and flow of society's growth. Last week I was prepared to have a true conversation about the conversing subjects of "Importance of Debt/Danger of Debt" with her because I actually respected the subject and thought she was a poster willing to transcend the ever-so-common banalities for a real discussion. Then I sit down today and read...this.

grr arg.

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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 8:52 AM

JONGSSTRAW

I think it's a legitimate subject, especially in light of the last 2 elections. Bush started the Republicans on the road to ruin, and McCain sealed the deal of defeat for decades to come. Sorry.

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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 9:07 AM

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I think it's a legitimate subject, especially in light of the last 2 elections. Bush started the Republicans on the road to ruin, and McCain sealed the deal of defeat for decades to come. Sorry.

Alas the same statement could have been proffered in 1977 replacing the names "Bush" with "Nixon" and "McCain" with "Ford". Ebb and flow sir, ebb and flow.

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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 9:49 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I think it's a legitimate subject, especially in light of the last 2 elections. Bush started the Republicans on the road to ruin, and McCain sealed the deal of defeat for decades to come. Sorry.
Alas the same statement could have been profered in 1977 replacing the names "Bush" with "Nixon" and "McCain" with "Ford". Ebb and flow sir, ebb and flow.

It's a new world now, in case you haven't noticed. We have an ideologically corrupt press, firmly in the camp of the Democrats. Our side has nothing like ACORN, or any organizational and fund-raising skills whatso ever. We also have no viable candidates. So, it's goin' to be a long, long, long time if ever, especially when Dems are using their new power in DC to permanently solidify their voter base power with Unions and illegal Mexicans. Looks pretty hopeless. I hope I'm wrong.

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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 9:51 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

M'kay, maybe if I clarified a bit that might help.

I've known and respected conservatives and right-wingers... maybe not always for their political views but many were hard-working, grounded individuals who would/could talk in depth about their opinions. We would have vigorous discussions about topics like "What do we want an economy to do?" and "What is the ultimate outcome of society?" and "Do we have the right to involve ourselves in other nations besides self-defense?" and "If so, to what end" and "Do the ends justify the means?" But right now many prominent right-wingers seem to have gone off the deep end. They appear to have nothing to say except "It would be nice if Muslims would bomb all the liberals", "My country right or wrong" etc. Once upon a time, we had a very interesting thread about demonization, with great participiaiton from right-wingers. But many no longer have a toehold in reality. On reflection, I think we ALWAYS have to worry about the crazy minority (no matter how you define it... BTW if you want to see crazy you should talk to some Trotskyists) but I just came to the realization that there's no point in even talking to them anymore.

---------------------------------
They pit us like dogs against each other and rake it in. And I'll bet they laugh when they hear dupes like you defend the system that fucks you over and rewards them so nicely! But the one thing they'll stamp out in horror as if it were the spark of conflagration is any whiff of socialism. That should tell you something.

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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:08 AM

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

As a curiosity I'm placing this thread into my favorities, then into mothballs to be revisited in 2013-14. It'll serve the purpose of a case study on the subject that I believe common political thinkers are generally unable to predict the future of politics, regardless of belief systems.

For several years now I've observed those about me examining the momentary minuta of ever changing political environments and then divine with absolute certainty a future. When approached later about the resultant inaccuracies I'll often be presented with newer minuta coupled with "logical" excuses. Meinwhile I find myself considering such things in a manner similar to Leto Atredies in God Emperor of Dune--watching ants scurry about unable to percieve that a macroenvironment exists.

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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:11 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Who predicted what ?

I wasn't following. Seriously.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:19 AM

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Who predicted what ?

SignyM predicts that the Republican Party will "Implode into Fantasy" and that they will finally do something "Equiventally stupid to invading Russia in the Winter, then they'll be gone" per the opening post on the thread.

I'm curious to know how this thread will be percieved in 5 years. To that end it is saved in my favorites now. I've been on fff.net for 5 years now...I'll be here in 5 more.

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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:36 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
I'll be here in 5 more.

Not if the coming plague works the way it might.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:10 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Who predicted what ?
SignyM predicts that the Republican Party will "Implode into Fantasy" and that they will finally do something "Equiventally stupid to invading Russia in the Winter, then they'll be gone" per the opening post on the thread.

I'm curious to know how this thread will be percieved in 5 years. To that end it is saved in my favorites now. I've been on fff.net for 5 years now...I'll be here in 5 more.

I'll be interested to see how it shakes out, too. I predict that the right-wingers will indeed be back, and will remain a force to be dealt with, if not THE force in power, by around 2014 at the latest.

'Course, I also predict that China will own Taiwan by then, too.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 2:33 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Alas the same statement could have been profered in 1977 replacing the names "Bush" with "Nixon" and "McCain" with "Ford". Ebb and flow sir, ebb and flow.

And having learned, and paid DEARLY for that lesson, given how many of the same shitheads just pulled the same crap on us cause Nixon and company got a pass...

Not everyone is so eager to hand one out THIS time around.

Our feelings are best summarised by that little speech at the end of Boondock Saints.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 2:38 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Alas the same statement could have been profered in 1977 replacing the names "Bush" with "Nixon" and "McCain" with "Ford". Ebb and flow sir, ebb and flow.

Indeed. Except... having experienced Nixon once, was there any reason in h*ll to have to go through that cr*p again???

Seems we really ARE doomed to repeat history!

----------------------
We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.- rappy

Yeah, that's what Sheikh Issa said. Seems you both have a lot in common.- signy

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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:59 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
Rappy, your right-wing heroes have done nothing in their lives except be draft-dodging doughy blowhards. They've studied nothing, sacrificed nothing, learned nothing.
Rappy's BIGGEST right-wing hero (and I mean that in ranking not in size, altho it works both ways) is hillbilly heroin addicted viagra-popping doughboy Rush Limbaugh. His next biggest hero is Bush, and the one after that is Cheney. Add in Hannity and Beck, and you've got a perfect royal flush of know-nothings.

---------------------------------
They pit us like dogs against each other and rake it in. And I'll bet they laugh when they hear dupes like you defend the system that fucks you over and rewards them so nicely! But the one thing they'll stamp out in horror as if it were the spark of conflagration is any whiff of socialism. That should tell you something.

Bush?
GHW Bush fought as a Navy Pilot, even tho his dad was Senator Preston Bush. He was shot down over the ocean in a combat theater. Yup, no sacrifice at all, or risk of it.

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Wednesday, April 29, 2009 12:20 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Wooo....he's talking about PEOPLE

So fucking what ? He can't pass any laws, he can't sentence anyone. He has no POWER to do anything. Why's it such an issue w/ you ?

He may have "no POWER", but he's got influence, especially over people like YOU. Influence is its own kind of power.

And ya know, President Obama can't pass any laws or sentence anyone either, so what's your problem with HIM?

Mike

Are you dumb?
A legislative Bill becomes Law when the President SIGNS IT INTO LAW. No other one person can PASS A LAW. If the POTUS does not pass a Bill into Law, a large number of legislators can collectively pass a Bill into Law. A President also has the Power of Pardon or Commutation.

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Wednesday, April 29, 2009 1:38 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Bush?
GHW Bush fought as a Navy Pilot, even tho his dad was Senator Preston Bush. He was shot down over the ocean in a combat theater. Yup, no sacrifice at all, or risk of it.

Nice dodge.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Wednesday, April 29, 2009 1:47 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Wooo....he's talking about PEOPLE

So fucking what ? He can't pass any laws, he can't sentence anyone. He has no POWER to do anything. Why's it such an issue w/ you ?

He may have "no POWER", but he's got influence, especially over people like YOU. Influence is its own kind of power.

And ya know, President Obama can't pass any laws or sentence anyone either, so what's your problem with HIM?

Mike

Are you dumb?
A legislative Bill becomes Law when the President SIGNS IT INTO LAW. No other one person can PASS A LAW. If the POTUS does not pass a Bill into Law, a large number of legislators can collectively pass a Bill into Law. A President also has the Power of Pardon or Commutation.

Are YOU dumb?
The President can propose legislation, and he can sign a bill into law, BUT ONLY AFTER THAT BILL HAS PASSED BOTH THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE. On his own, the President doesn't have any power to introduce legislation or vote on it - thus, he on his own can't pass a law. He can SIGN it into law once Congress has voted a bill into law, or he can veto it, or he can use what's called the "pocket veto" (look it up). A veto can be overridden by Congress, but a pocket veto cannot.

The President has the power of pardon or commutation. So what? If you'll go back a re-read what I wrote, you'll see that I said the President doesn't have the power to SENTENCE anyone. Of course he has the power to pardon them or commute their sentence. You'd have to be a real dummy to not know the difference!

Oh, wait - you didn't know the difference, did you?

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Wednesday, April 29, 2009 2:42 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Bush?
GHW Bush

I wouldn't even have my sock puppet post this, it's so embarrassing!

Not GHWB. Sheesh.

Quote:
Are you dumb? A legislative Bill becomes Law when the President SIGNS IT INTO LAW. No other one person can PASS A LAW. If the POTUS does not pass a Bill into Law, a large number of legislators can collectively pass a Bill into Law. A President also has the Power of Pardon or Commutation.- Signy

Are YOU dumb? The President can propose legislation, and he can sign a bill into law, BUT ONLY AFTER THAT BILL HAS PASSED BOTH THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE. On his own, the President doesn't have any power to introduce legislation or vote on it - thus, he on his own can't pass a law. He can SIGN it into law once Congress has voted a bill into law, or he can veto it, or he can use what's called the "pocket veto" (look it up). A veto can be overridden by Congress, but a pocket veto cannot.-Kwicko

So Rappy, speaking of Civics 101... Several threads ago, when you were insisting that Dodd and Frank were responsible for the downfall of western civilization, you promised to explain how an out-of-power Congressman can affect the movement of legislation. Seeing as they don't control the chairmanships of any committee nor does the minority party in Congress ever have a majority in committee. Since we're plumbing the depths of your... er... knowledge on the topic, this might be a good time to explain the inexplicable.

----------------------
We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.- rappy

Yeah, that's what Sheikh Issa said. Seems you both have a lot in common.- signy

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