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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Yeah, this report is about as reliable as the 600,000 civilian Iraqi deaths too.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Yeah, this report is about as reliable as the 600,000 civilian Iraqi deaths too.

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You mean to say it's far more reliable than the reports about Saddam having WMD, right?

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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So anyway, Rap

Got anything relevant to say about people tortured to death by the US ? ANYthing relevant - at all ?

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Originally posted by rue:
What's the matter Rap - you pulled the picture from SOMEwhere - did you lose track of what it was about ?

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Anyway, to put an end to your misery (short of euthanasia), my guess is he was sitting with his hands folded in his lap, just like here - another picture from the exact same event.

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Originally posted by rue:
Got anything relevant to say about people tortured to death by the US ? ANYthing relevant - at all ?

I guess not.


Silence is consent.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

I just find it funny that you felt the need to go to all the trouble to find corresponding pics and explain the whole situation, because of the perceived notion that anyone might POSSIBLY view your dear and fluffy leader in a less than favorable manner.

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Oh please, Sig, show me the way!

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what's Obama doing in that pic ? Seriously, I posted it simply because of his facial expression, but now as I look at it....seems he's doing something curious w/ his hands...

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Sig and Rue (especially Rue, since I've had more experience from you on this) a little looking around that website and I couldn't help but notice that *GASP* it's a liberal/left-wing site. That being said, I feel it needs to be questioned even deeper.

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A quick search on Google of "98 detainees tortured death" brought up absolutely nothing from any mainstream news source in the first two or three pages, much less CNN or MSNBC who you would think would be falling all over themselves to post this if it occurred during the Bush Administration.

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I'm only pointing this out because you need to use a more reliable source for your information. I have posted links before to prove a point and because a site or two that I referenced were supposedly Conservative you basically told me that the information was obviously biased and should be practically dismissed out of hand, not to be trusted.

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I hope you don't take that the wrong way. I'm not slamming you or insulting you, just pointing it out as a possible flaw in your reasoning. If I'm to take your word that a conservative site is untrustworthy, then perhaps strictly liberal sites aren't trustworthy either?

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It just made me sick to my stomach. I don't know how these people live with themselves, or sleep at night.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Yeah, this report is about as reliable as the 600,000 civilian Iraqi deaths too.

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Originally posted by rue:
And I provided links that show that indeed detainees were tortured to death from such liberal sites as Forbes, and links to original documents obtained with the FOIA.

THAT detainees were tortured to death has been a known fact for years.

Are you disputing the facts ? Or having a major pout ?



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Silence is consent.

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Cause they're sociopaths.

As for Obama's cute little picture there, he's entertaining children, much like Bush was doing on 9-11 by reading to them - and you MIGHT, just MIGHT note, that in all this time, that's one pass I've given the man, cause in all honesty there wasn't much he COULD do since he trusted in the protocols (which strangely enough were not followed) for such a situation in the first place.

I might not have agreed with his decision to continue reading to the kids, as I felt he should have made a diplomatic and non-panic inducing excuse and got his butt to safety - but it's one of the few decisions the man made that I'll give him a pass on cause it's his right to make it.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Did the USS Abe Lincoln fail in its mission, or did it accomplish it ?

It accomplished its mission objectives, ergo, Mission Accomplished.

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"Mission Accomplished," a phrase associated with completing a mission, is in recent years particularly associated with a sign displayed on USS Abraham Lincoln during a televised address by United States President George W. Bush on May 1, 2003.

Bush stated at the time that this was the end to major combat operations in Iraq. While this statement did coincide with an end to the conventional phase of the war, Bush's assertion — and the sign itself — became controversial after guerilla warfare in Iraq increased during the Iraqi insurgency. The vast majority of casualties, among both coalition (approximately 98.3% as of October 2008) and Iraqi combatants, and among Iraqi civilians, has occurred since the speech.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_Accomplished

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Sailors stationed aboard USS Abraham Lincoln (CVN 72), in the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard at the time of terrorist acts on the east coast, were either traveling to the ship or onboard as part of the duty section.

www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=3631

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Originally posted by RIPWash:
... While I'm not against torture to a certain degree...

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Ex-General Sanchez was just interviewed and said that only ONE person died at Abu Grahib from coerced interrogation. Whether it's one or one hundred doesn't matter to me. The mere origination of these sado-masochistic horrors was twisted and demented and criminal in the court of Humanity.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

It accomplished its mission objectives, ergo, Mission Accomplished.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Ex-General Sanchez was just interviewed and said that only ONE person died at Abu Grahib from coerced interrogation. Whether it's one or one hundred doesn't matter to me. The mere origination of these sado-masochistic horrors was twisted and demented and criminal in the court of Humanity.

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You are so spot on, my friend.


The laughing Chrisisall

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Did the USS Abe Lincoln fail in its mission, or did it accomplish it ?

It accomplished its mission objectives, ergo, Mission Accomplished.

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I just find it funny that you felt the need to go to all the trouble to... explain the whole situation, because of the perceived notion that anyone might POSSIBLY view your dear and fluffy leader in a less than favorable manner.

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Ex-General Sanchez was just interviewed and said that only ONE person died at Abu Grahib from coerced interrogation. Whether it's one or one hundred doesn't matter to me. The mere origination of these sado-masochistic horrors was twisted and demented and criminal in the court of Humanity.

Abu Grahib was not one of the prisons, it was THE prison. For Sanchez and Bush Admin. people to claim ignorance of what went on there is utterly un-believeable. And WHAT was gained by any of it? Sanchez's troops & Iraqi innocents were being blown to bits every damn day on the streets of Baghdad and other cities, yet we kept up the inquisition. I'm sure 'ole Torquemada was smiling from from Hell at the entertainment we provided.

But worse than all that was the vile and insipid planning and legal manuevering involved, now detailed in the endless piles of documents amassed on these issues. I mean what the fuck...any lawyer, doctor, Bush staffer, etc. should have run fucking screaming out of the room the first time these things came up. The whole thing reminds me of the Wannsee Conference the Nazis held during the WWII to determine how to most effectively solve their Jewish problem.

These were well-dressed men, gathered together for a few days at a countryside retreat. They were educated men, clean-shaven men of high standing. Unfortunately they were also psychotic and delusional mass murderers. They envisioned a new world, populated by the Arayan race. Our guys plans were not as grandiose, they simply wanted to torture and humliate detainees. And for what? We got nothing out of Abu Grahib except more dead Americans from insurgents and terrorists who flooded into Iraq.

Sanchez should be tried for his responsibility in this.

Rumsfeld should be tried for his responsibility in this.

The doctors and attorneys, including the Attorney General(s) and staff should be tried for their responsibility in this.

The President of the United States should have been the only person alive to make a call on interrogation, and then only in a very high-threat situation. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Gonzalez, etc had no business at all in these matters.

Yanno, when I watched the Sanchez interview with Rachel Madow I was just jaw-dropping struck by his utter lack of comprehension of what he had been in charge of. His pathetic spin and obtuseness on the subjects of guard dogs, nudity, human degradation etc. was truly amazing to watch. It just made me sick to my stomach. I don't know how these people live with themselves, or sleep at night.

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"Because specific intent is an element of the offense, the absence of specific intent negates the charge of torture. ... We have further found that if a defendant acts with the good faith belief that his actions will not cause such suffering, he has not acted with specific intent,"

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
"Because specific intent is an element of the offense, the absence of specific intent negates the charge of torture.

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