Sadly, RWED has become nothing more than Troll Country 2 by AURaptor

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Why can't the RWED have the same positive tone and higher standards of friendly sharing we see in the general sci-fi threads here?

Because opinions on movies & TV shows are just that- opinions. Real life has FACTS that peeps LIKE to have opinions on, but opinions on facts brings frustration into play. For instance, it's a FACT the Bush's administration was not a very good one for America & the world...what can be argued is the degree of bad... to deny that it WAS bad is where frustration & insults start coming in. Wanna argue if tides are caused by the Moon's gravitation influence? You'll get made fun of too, I guarantee you.

Quote:
Who ever started the downhill spiral into the nastiness and hatred we see every day in RWED?

Off the top of my head- a guy named Andrew about 3 or 4 years ago, a dismissive little authoritarian elitist punk who thought he knew everything about everything (he makes Hero & AURaptor look like warm & fuzzy middle-roaders by comparison), and after a few months, he started getting blasted from all sides, so much so that he left with his tail between his legs. But the resentment for that kind of know-it-all NeoCon dweeb lingered, and I think you're seeing it's residual effects today.

The RWED Historian Chrisisall

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Saturday, May 30, 2009 7:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:

I see your tongue & raise you an eyebrow.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Saturday, May 30, 2009 9:14 AM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
For instance, it's a FACT the Bush's administration was not a very good one for America & the world...

Ah, amigo how can anyone claim that as a fact? You can claim a lot of facts that reflect poorly on the Bush administration, economic turmoil, costly wars with civilian casualties, lack of movement on issues such as health care reform, climate change and energy independence - and even also less tangible 'facts' like an increase in anti-US sentiment and loss of standing in the world.

But the Bush administration being 'not very good' is not a fact you can point to - it implies that other administrations in the same (arguably quite difficult) circumstances would've produced better results - and how can you prove that? The only alternate-reality machines we have are our imaginations, and there's no question of these producing 'facts'.

The Bush administration has been bad: it's the truth I believe - which is more profound than facts, but oh so much harder to prove (and getting people to believe facts can be hard enough).

Heads should roll

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Saturday, May 30, 2009 10:37 AM

CAUSAL

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:

I see your tongue & raise you an eyebrow.

________________________________________________________________________

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Saturday, May 30, 2009 11:06 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Why can't the RWED have the same positive tone and higher standards of friendly sharing we see in the general sci-fi threads here?

Because the stakes are higher.

And to be bluntly honest with you, most political forums of any kind aren't "nice" - they're run by folk with an agenda of *some* kind, who usually practice ironhanded and/or stealth censorship of dissenting opinions.

So while on the surface they might LOOK like decent places, with well managed and restrained opposition, the truth underneath them is the same underlying North Korean society - actually make a REAL arguement and back it up at one of those other places, and you, your posts and your posting name just freakin disappear.

That's one reason I *like* this place, nasty at times that it is, because you HAVE to argue your point, and well - rather than getting a "friendly" mod to ban someone you disagree with just cause they happen to be ripping your argument to shreds.

And when folks used to having that unfair advantage wind up with their back against the wall, they lash out in some of most horrific ways, what I call tearing the mask, cause the true face of their argument and personhood behind it comes out and you get to see what they and their agenda REALLY are.

And most of the time it ain't pretty - what's ugly about this place is that it's one of the few where you will see the truth of the arguments and agendas undernearth the bullshit facades, and believe me that extends to all four axises of the political spectrum, cause you've seen me have at any and all of them yourself Jongs, even you in respect to how actually understanding our opponents instead of holding up fictional distortions and exaggerations is the key to beating them, although that discussion was more hostile lecture than personal attack - if I make it personal with someone they're in no doubt about it.

As for why you do not understand - you have to realize I am a Humanist who firmly believes that encouraging and evolving our humanity rather than trying to destroy or deny it, is the key to our ability to survive and prosper as a species.

Once you understand THAT principle, all else should make sense to you.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Saturday, May 30, 2009 11:26 AM

WASHNWEAR

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
Quite.

Oh stop.
Shouting down ignorance from NeoCons OR
LoonyLeftists is no travesty- please stop with the bleeding heart already.

The laughing Chrisisall

Why can't the RWED have the same positive tone and higher standards of friendly sharing we see in the general sci-fi threads here? Who ever started the downhill spiral into the nastiness and hatred we see every day in RWED?

For all's consideration: The LibDem end of the Browncoat spectrum has never got over the unlooked-for realization that there could be such a thing as the ConRep end of the Browncoat spectrum...and the ConRep end is probly tired of being treated like the shallow-affect, cross-dressing, record-having uncle that nobody wants at the reunions.

I mean, honestly - when I first started lurking around here, it never once dawned on me that I might see a self-professed Browncoat make a post in defense of Bush, Cheney, or the war in Iraq. Clearly I was mistaken - I let my unconscious prejudices and expectations lead me to unwarranted assumptions about the Firefly demographic, and...

I'm sorry - what was the question...?

EB: Comma deficit...I just couldn't restrain myself.

donttalkbackjustdrivethecarshutyourmouthiknowwhatyouaredontsaynothinkeepyourhandsonthewheeldontturnaroundthisisforreal

Still...what would Rorschach do?

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Saturday, May 30, 2009 11:33 AM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Posted by Fremdfirma:

And to be bluntly honest with you, most political forums of any kind aren't "nice" - they're run by folk with an agenda of *some* kind, who usually practice ironhanded and/or stealth censorship of dissenting opinions.

So while on the surface they might LOOK like decent places, with well managed and restrained opposition, the truth underneath them is the same underlying North Korean society - actually make a REAL arguement and back it up at one of those other places, and you, your posts and your posting name just freakin disappear.

Too bloody true, that.

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Saturday, May 30, 2009 11:38 AM

CAUSAL

Quote:
Originally posted by WASHnwear:
For all's consideration: The LibDem end of the Browncoat spectrum has never got over the unlooked-for realization that there could be such a thing as the ConRep end of the Browncoat spectrum...and the ConRep end is probly tired of being treated like the shallow-affect-cross-dressing-record-having uncle that nobody wants at the reunions.

EXACTLY! This is essentially what I've been struggling to say for the last 2 years--just couldn't quite put it this succinctly. If you go back 5-6 years, you'll see that there was quite a bit of political discussion going on, most of it quite vigorous, but mostly very civil. And the interesting thing was that while there LibDem side was better represented, there were quite a few ConRep folks. But over the course of time (*cough* through the Bush years *cough*) the boards definitely took on a LibDem demographic. As that's happened, the discourse got meaner and meaner (I was once told that all Christians should be burned alive, for example). It's really hard--I used to love being part of the FFF.net community. But the more the ideology of the boards hardened (and this is my perception mind you) the less welcome I felt until now I hardly come around at all.

But guess what? It's not that there aren't any ConRep Browncoats. It's just that they don't come around here much, perhaps because they don't feel welcome. Too bad, really.

________________________________________________________________________

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Saturday, May 30, 2009 4:59 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Aw hell, since without any check against it, the pathetic revisionism, whining and apologism is just gonna continue - imma just freakin call it, and I don't care who it pisses off.

Maybe, Casual - if they wanted to feel welcome, maybe they should not have brought the nasty!

Your little ConRep spectrum buddies brought it in the first place, and when they got backed up into corners by trying to sell lies, racism, religious intolerance and sheer malice at anything that wasn't them, took things to levels of vicious unacceptable in any society and then tried to spin the blame at everyone else for daring to disagree with them.

I sat here and watched it, mind you, and while that blame is not exclusive to em, it damn well was 75-80% of the conduct in question comin from that end of the spectrum, and eventually folks lost patience with actually trying to reason with folks who would have NONE of it, who NO proof was ever enough for, who were more interested in trying to brute-force their ideology on others than reason and negotiate (which, you think about it, was what that's been *about* for the past six years or so) - and began to respond in kind.

At which point most of them threw a tantrum, acted all offended and wronged, tried to play the victim (like what's happening here) and got mocked for their troubles.

The remainder, many of, decided to try making up in rabidity and viciousness what their arguments lacked in value, and by that action ran off quite a few more reasonable posters as well, figuring if they could run off anyone who disagreed with em, they would "win" - which isn't exactly conducive to the concept of having a rational discussion to learn from each other, is it now ?

At which point some folk, ironically from quite varied points of view, decided to draw a line and refused to be run off by that conduct, most of whom were our core group of posters for the last year and a half, while many of the decent ConRep folk simply gave up because they couldn't make a halfway decent argument without catching the backlash from the ones who were acting like shit throwing monkeys instead of human beings, although they never seemed to call out their fellows on the same conduct they were howling at he LibDem spectrum for - so in my opinion they deserved that backlash every bit as much as a good cop who turns a blind eye to corruption in his department does.

Now, you're gonna believe whatever it suits you to believe, but given the recent conduct over the past several months of the folk whom you're trying to play apologist for here, you might rethink how that makes you look in the eyes of folk who stood their ground against what amounted to a scorched earth campaign intended to destroy this place as a forum of discussion as petty revenge for having arguments that never held water in the first place shot to pieces on em.

I been biting my tongue on it so far, but this dumptruck load of poor little me apologism bullshit for the very folks who brought the discussion down to that level isn't gonna fly with me - especially when you base it on obvious lies few others have been here long enough to catch out.

Oh, and for the record, it was me that make the comment regarding torching christians in light of the fact that they whine about 'persecution' despite being the ones that actually DID burn people alive - and thus perhaps if they had it happen to them they'd actually have cause to whine - especially when a good bit of them still WOULD resort to that if they could only get away with it, and how do you think that makes the folk who'd be on the receiving end feel about them trying to illegally sideslip their religion into our government ?

Now, if you'd like to put down the shovel and actually have a discussion, you're more than welcome, but till that point, don't piss on our heads and tell us it's rainin, Casual.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:28 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

Hell, the clash of ideology and bitter resentments and confrontations that happen on this board are just a sign of the same going on in the outside world.

The Conrep side are at present feeling out, I think, simply because they have lost the control and power they were enjoying the past eight years.

The LibDem side are feeling out, because their guy got in, has the power and is not righting all the wrongs they were hoping to see righted.

This is the end result of the weakness of the US political system, two partys in which the elite of your country controls who rises to what position, two viewpoints which takes your country to the same place, only varying slightly in the path taken...... This causes frustration and friction and righteous anger

Many have clashed here, but some consistently come only to spout off and rant...

I will not miss AU because he rarely if ever brought anything but the party line, refused to justify or budge on any position no matter how insane, and was rather ignorant to anyone who disagreed with his limited viewpoint.

Maybe he should run for office, because he appears to be rather typical of todays politicians.

" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson

Lets party like its 1939

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Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:34 PM

Quote:
For all's consideration: The LibDem end of the Browncoat spectrum has never got over the unlooked-for realization that there could be such a thing as the ConRep end of the Browncoat spectrum...and the ConRep end is probly tired of being treated like the shallow-affect-cross-dressing-record-having uncle that nobody wants at the reunions.-Washnwear

EXACTLY! This is essentially what I've been struggling to say for the last 2 years--just couldn't quite put it this succinctly. If you go back 5-6 years, you'll see that there was quite a bit of political discussion going on, most of it quite vigorous, but mostly very civil. And the interesting thing was that while there LibDem side was better represented, there were quite a few ConRep folks. But over the course of time (*cough* through the Bush years *cough*) the boards definitely took on a LibDem demographic. As that's happened, the discourse got meaner and meaner (I was once told that all Christians should be burned alive, for example). It's really hard--I used to love being part of the FFF.net community. But the more the ideology of the boards hardened (and this is my perception mind you) the less welcome I felt until now I hardly come around at all.-Causal

Hmmm... Have you actually been READING this forum?

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Sunday, May 31, 2009 6:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:

This is the end result of the weakness of the US political system, two partys in which the elite of your country controls who rises to what position, two viewpoints which takes your country to the same place, only varying slightly in the path taken...... This causes frustration and friction and righteous anger

Spot on, Gino.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Sunday, May 31, 2009 6:48 AM

RIVER6213

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Which kinda sucks, because I had hoped to engage in some mature, lively and civil discussions over real world matters. But too many here now have openly stated their intent here is nothing but to mock, poke fun and illicit any sort of response, rather than deal in sincere exchange of ideas.

As other's have parted ways from this forum, I too think it may be wise to do the same. The repetitive incidents by some of expanding on misleading and false minutia has left its toll. Whether by design or merely a display of colossal ignorance by some, does not matter.

You sad little kings who remain enjoy your sad, pathetic little hill.

The T.Rex they call JANE!

It's about time you guys kicked Auraptor off of his fascist throne of ignorance.

-River

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Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:06 AM

Quote:

It's about time you guys kicked Auraptor off of his fascist throne of ignorance.

Thing is, River, I don't think anyone "kicked" him off the throne - I think he abdicated all on his own. Still, that doesn't mean there weren't a few "Huzzahs!" over the news!

'Course, that means the throne of fascist ignorance is now up for grabs...

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

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Sunday, May 31, 2009 9:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by WASHnwear:
it never once dawned on me that I might see a self-professed Browncoat make a post in defense of Bush, Cheney, or the war in Iraq.

That was my experience as well. That would be like Jayne going to a Cortex site about guns and ranting that the 'Verse needed greater gun control laws...

The laughing Chrisisall

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Sunday, May 31, 2009 9:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:

It's about time you guys kicked Auraptor off of his fascist throne of ignorance.

Never thought of as a king- more of a political court jester myself...

The laughing Chrisisall

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Sunday, May 31, 2009 9:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

That is so mean. So extremely amusingly mean.

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Sunday, May 31, 2009 9:50 AM

Also, I'd like to nominate myself for the throne of fascist ignorance, because I like power and riches.

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Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:23 AM

Face it, Hillary Clinton was the smartest choice for a democratic president. Almost all of the Obama lemmings have changed their mind about him. At first he could do no wrong, but now even his biggest supporters refer to his as "the lesser of two evils" AKA: Obama isn't a good president.
Not very promising.
In a few years, this country will be in such bad shape that RWED will be a memory....along with the internet.

"It's a huge shit sandwich, and were all gonna have to take a bite".

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Sunday, May 31, 2009 11:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Aliasse:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

That is so mean. So extremely amusingly mean.

Thank ChrisIsAll for that image - I totally stole it from him! (Or blame him, if you like.)

Quote:
Posted by Aliasse:

Also, I'd like to nominate myself for the throne of fascist ignorance, because I like power and riches.

Ah... but are you FASCIST enough? Methinks not; truly effective fascists don't nominate themselves - they just TAKE what they want! :)

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

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Sunday, May 31, 2009 11:35 AM

All right then. The throne is MINE. (Sorry, was just being a bit British there.) What happens next?

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Sunday, May 31, 2009 11:36 AM

Is there a party?

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Sunday, May 31, 2009 12:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Aliasse:
All right then. The throne is MINE. (Sorry, was just being a bit British there.) What happens next?

Quote:
Is there a party?

Yes. In America, we call it the "Republican Party".

What happens next is you have to start spouting off all sorts of nonsense. Saddam had WMD, Saddam was behind 9/11, illegal immigrants caused Katrina, gays destroyed the institution of marriage (AND the Miss Universe Pageant!), national healthcare means we all have to become Marxists... the usual stuff. It's not important that any of it be true - you just have to yell a lot.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

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Sunday, May 31, 2009 12:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:
Almost all of the Obama lemmings have changed their mind about him. At first he could do no wrong, but now even his biggest supporters refer to his as "the lesser of two evils" AKA: Obama isn't a good president.

We don't KNOW if he's a very good president or not, but so far, I give him a C+ where Bush was a solid F as soon as the Iraq thing began.

There's no such thing as an A prez no more...

The laughing Chrisisall

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Sunday, May 31, 2009 12:10 PM

AURaptor's GONE!!!!!

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Sunday, May 31, 2009 12:31 PM

Oh dear. I think I might have to quietly abdicate. My interest in world leaders doesn't go much further than finding Nicholas Sarkozy absurdly hilarious.

http://cm1.theinsider.com/media/0/52/4/Carla_and_Nicolas.0.0.0x0.432x3
34.jpeg

Yes, this really is the president of a G7 country.

Also, I'm basically of the belief that this site is for writing stories about Mal and Inara making up for lost time (kiss kiss).

But I'm happy to act as a sort of figurehead, if there are no other takers.

Down with immigrants! Down with gay immigrants! Down with gay immigrants with WMD! etc. etc.

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Sunday, May 31, 2009 12:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Aliasse:

But I'm happy to act as a sort of figurehead, if there are no other takers.

Down with immigrants! Down with gay immigrants! Down with gay immigrants with WMD! etc. etc.

You fascist NeoCon dweeb! You're an idiot! You have no case! Conservanazi! I hope you get hit by a freight train with no insurance before Obama's Marxismism of America takes hold and provides us with socialized health care!!!
Damn you! God damn you all to Hell!!!

The laughing Chrisisall

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Sunday, May 31, 2009 1:53 PM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:
Face it, Hillary Clinton was the smartest choice for a democratic president. Almost all of the Obama lemmings have changed their mind about him.

According to Rasmussen's Daily Presidential Tracking Poll 36% of voters strongly approve of Obama's performance - down just 6% from his figure at inauguration (42%).

See the graph here:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administ
ration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

Or this graph for general approval:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/gallup-daily-obama-job-approval.aspx

Heads should roll

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Sunday, May 31, 2009 2:51 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:
Face it, Hillary Clinton was the smartest choice for a democratic president. Almost all of the Obama lemmings have changed their mind about him. At first he could do no wrong, but now even his biggest supporters refer to his as "the lesser of two evils" AKA: Obama isn't a good president.
Not very promising.
In a few years, this country will be in such bad shape that RWED will be a memory....along with the internet.

"It's a huge shit sandwich, and were all gonna have to take a bite".

I was pretty appalled with Madeline Albright as SecState, and as Hillary and Albright are together on most foreign policy issues, I would likely go to McCain before I would Hillary.

Hey, is that right wing throne still up for grabs...

" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson

Lets party like its 1939

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Sunday, May 31, 2009 2:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
There's no such thing as an A prez no more...

Nope. Since I've been alive there has been only one good president....Bill Clinton.
Funny, I used to hate Limbaugh for attacking "Slick Willie", because it was just nonsensical dribble. His Obama rants however haven't been too far off the mark.

At least Obama likes the new Star Trek movie:
http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/05/20/president-obama-reviews-star-trek/

I'll be voting for Palin come 2012.

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Sunday, May 31, 2009 3:00 PM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Which kinda sucks, because I had hoped to engage in some mature, lively and civil discussions over real world matters. But too many here now have openly stated their intent here is nothing but to mock, poke fun and illicit any sort of response, rather than deal in sincere exchange of ideas.

As other's have parted ways from this forum, I too think it may be wise to do the same. The repetitive incidents by some of expanding on misleading and false minutia has left its toll. Whether by design or merely a display of colossal ignorance by some, does not matter.

You sad little kings who remain enjoy your sad, pathetic little hill.

The T.Rex they call JANE!

It's about time you guys kicked Auraptor off of his fascist throne of ignorance.

-River

I don't like this attitude that people with right wing views like Auraptor are contemptible as humans and deserving of being trolled.

His views are probably not the pinnacle of honest, compassionate and enlightened human thought (and may even be seen by some to be in some measure damaging, divisive, even offensive), but it's a fallacy to assume that anyone adhering to them must be a bad person.

Frustration at the stubbornness of such personal opinions is perhaps justified, but not ridicule and personal attacks.

Heads should roll

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Sunday, May 31, 2009 3:11 PM

RIVER6213

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Which kinda sucks, because I had hoped to engage in some mature, lively and civil discussions over real world matters. But too many here now have openly stated their intent here is nothing but to mock, poke fun and illicit any sort of response, rather than deal in sincere exchange of ideas.

As other's have parted ways from this forum, I too think it may be wise to do the same. The repetitive incidents by some of expanding on misleading and false minutia has left its toll. Whether by design or merely a display of colossal ignorance by some, does not matter.

You sad little kings who remain enjoy your sad, pathetic little hill.

The T.Rex they call JANE!

It's about time you guys kicked Auraptor off of his fascist throne of ignorance.

-River

I don't like this attitude that people with right wing views like Auraptor are contemptible as humans and deserving of being trolled.

His views are probably not the pinnacle of honest, compassionate and enlightened human thought (and may even be seen by some to be in some measure damaging, divisive, even offensive), but it's a fallacy to assume that anyone adhering to them must be a bad person.

Frustration at such stubborn, personal opinions is perhaps justified, but not ridicule and personal attacks.

Heads should roll

People like Auraptor are too stupid to realize what poisons their words, and beliefs contain. From my position he IS a bad person, but he's too stupid to recognize this fact.

-River

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Sunday, May 31, 2009 3:54 PM

RIPWASH

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
I don't like this attitude that people with right wing views like Auraptor are contemptible as humans and deserving of being trolled.

His views are probably not the pinnacle of honest, compassionate and enlightened human thought (and may even be seen by some to be in some measure damaging, divisive, even offensive), but it's a fallacy to assume that anyone adhering to them must be a bad person.

Frustration at such stubborn, personal opinions is perhaps justified, but not ridicule and personal attacks.

Heads should roll

And this is the main reason I hesitated even getting involved in RWED. Most other sections seemed fine and friendly, but here it was just a little bit too nasty. But I jumped in anyway

I was treated with respect (for the most part) as long as I was respectful. It was a little humorous to me to see people have to correct themselves when addressing me ("Remember, this is Rip, he's okay." LOL). But to me, it's also a little unbelievable that someone would think that a Conservative could NOT be a Browncoat. Almost like the idea that a Conservative couldn't possibly like "V for Vendetta" (one of my favorite flicks).

The lashings that AuRaptor received for listening to Limbaugh was another reason. I don't listen to him as much (he's on while I'm at work), but I do listen to and watch Beck and Hannity. And I still bite my tongue when it comes to mentioning things I hear on their shows for fear of everyone dismissing what they say out of hand, even when what they say is simple common sense (at least IMO).

Not all Conservatives are the same and should not be lumped into the same boat. The same thing goes for Liberals. I, for one, see the flaws in the Republican Party and admit that Bush probably wasn't perfect, but was a better choice IMHO than Gore or Kerry. I think flaws abound and there's enough blame to go around for BOTH parties. Be it the economy, Iraq, or whatever. Not everyone here sees that the way I do. Folk like Rue didn't see ANY flaws in their own party. I also hesitate linking any cites for what I believe simply for the fact that if it's Fox New or something that's remotely Conservative, others will dismiss it out of hand and not even consider it. That is the frustration I feel, but I certainly don't hold it against anyone.

I really would like for us to at least come to some agreement that from here on out we keep things as civil as possible. Let's keep things in-line of folk having friendly discussions who agree to disagree on many subject, but who also find common ground on others. No more name-calling when it isn't called for. No more personal attacks just because someone chooses to think differently than you do. I'll make that pledge and humbly (perhaps naively) ask others to do the same. I think it's been proven that when people post here with respect and thoughtfulness that folk will respond in kind.

*********************************************
Mal: You think she'll hold together?
Zoë: She's torn up plenty, but she'll fly true.
Mal: Could be bumpy.
Zoë: Always is

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Sunday, May 31, 2009 4:25 PM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
People like Auraptor are too stupid to realize what poisons their words, and beliefs contain.

Undoubtedly there are poisons/toxins in the stream of right wing political thought, which ppl like auraptor might then drink from - if so, that doesn't mean rappy is poisonous himself, although his opinions will be tainted.

Racism is one such poison. I'm new to the US political scene and it's quite partisan tone, but it strikes me that the amount of anti-obama vehemence can only be explained by counting racism as a factor. I was following a female neo-con blogger around the time of Obama's election, and she was practically unravelling with hatred, throwing around terms like 'bird shit soup', and linking racist, anti-black pseudo-science articles. And this is a right-wing opinion former - I first started reading her because a neocon browncoat friend claimed her as a personal hero. This woman blogger is a source of the poison and always has been, not just when she unravelled - it is through her tainted opinions that the poison is passed on and on downstream, so that she will eventually influence thousands of non-racist ppl with her anti-obama spin - only to a very small extent, but if there are enough people like her then the overall effect is significant.

I raise this because Auraptor was branded as racist not long ago, and there was no direct evidence for it that I could see. Just people jumping to an easy conclusion that he is a horrible human being, to be a neocon.

Heads should roll

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Sunday, May 31, 2009 4:58 PM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
But to me, it's also a little unbelievable that someone would think that a Conservative could NOT be a Browncoat.

Yeah, I think it's crazy.

Quote:
I also hesitate linking any cites for what I believe simply for the fact that if it's Fox New or something that's remotely Conservative, others will dismiss it out of hand and not even consider it. That is the frustration I feel

That's a shame. Auraptor was quite brave in nailing his colours to the mast so proudly and defiantly in my opinion (even as one of the people frequently challenging them) - I think that defiance rankled people (as well as perhaps some intransigence), and things turned more and more personal.

Quote:
No more name-calling when it isn't called for. No more personal attacks just because someone chooses to think differently than you do.

Agreed. It's not always easy though! I think there will always be frustration in political debate - the key I think is biting your tongue a little, and giving fellow browncoats at least the benefit of the doubt of being a decent person.

Heads should roll

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Sunday, May 31, 2009 4:58 PM

None of you realize why rappy has earned MY dismissal. It's not that he listens to Limbaugh or Coulter. It's that I've tried to engage rappy in rational discussion over and over again. He says something: All those UN resolutions in Iraq provided justification for invasion. I counter with the fact that since UN resolutions supersede each other only the last one counts. Quoted Bush and Blair on that point. Went through R1440 in detail, line by line... there was NO invasion language. Even posted some UN resolutions which INCLUDED intervention language so that rappy could see how it reads. When rappy realized that he really DIDN'T have a case, rather than admitting he might be wrong, he slid out of the thread. Then popped up again with the same point (all those UN resolutions...) two weeks later.

Same with Frank and Dodd bringing down western civilization. Or the economy being "on fire". Or Saddam having WMD. Or any number of talking points which he brings to the board.It doesn't matter how reasonable and factual one is with him. He simply plugs his ears and goes la la la I can't hear you and spews names and insults.

MY response was generally either to be reasonable or ignore him, as I would with ANY OTHER TROLL. BECAUSE THAT"S WHAT RAPPY WAS: A TROLL.

I find it ironic that rappy, of all people, would complain about this being troll country. I'm sorry he never learned anything from his participation here... not even how to have a decent discussion... but I'm very glad he's gone.

WHOZIT: You seem to be under the impression that Rue and I tried to ban you from the board. I have NO IDEA what you're talking about, and neither does Rue. But as far as I'm concerned you're just another troll.

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Sunday, May 31, 2009 5:16 PM

Quote:

As other's have parted ways from this forum, I too think it may be wise to do the same. The repetitive incidents by some of expanding on misleading and false minutia has left its toll. Whether by design or merely a display of colossal ignorance by some, does not matter.

Yes, by leaving the RWED, you are doing yourself a disservice. You have a voice, and it will soon be silenced. Is this how you want to be remembered?
Be someone...be counted. Make your voice heard.
If you were a jew in Nazi occupied France would you simply give in, and walk into the death camps?
OR would you fight with every last breath to stay alive/overthrow the opposition.

You have brought up some valid, thought provoking discussions in the past. This has triggered a combative/mocking response by those who didn't have a valid answer to questions you posed. Some even looked for typos, or misspellings in your posts as a makeshift, last ditch effort to try to derail your train of thought. Of course this didn't work. You shouldn't leave.

"The model isn't defective, it's the mold that is broken"
OPPYH

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Sunday, May 31, 2009 5:24 PM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
None of you realize why rappy has earned MY dismissal. It's not that he listens to Limbaugh or Coulter. It's that I've tried to engage rappy in rational discussion over and over again. He says something: All those UN resolutions in Iraq provided justification for invasion. I counter with the fact that since UN resolutions supersede each other only the last one counts. Quoted Bush and Blair on that point. Went through R1440 in detail, line by line... there was NO invasion language. Even posted some UN resolutions which INCLUDED intervention language so that rappy could see how it reads. When rappy realized that he really DIDN'T have a case, rather than admitting he might be wrong, he slid out of the thread. Then popped up again with the same point (all those UN resolutions...) two weeks later.

Lol. No, you could defend rappy not responding to certain points by saying he was always outnumbered and encircled in debates - but I did get the impression myself from arguing with him that his belief system was pretty well insulated.

Not convinced that this amounts to being a troll though, and I don't think there was a need for the general open-season-of-personal-ridicule-on-rappy attitude.

Quote:
spews names and insults

Hmm. Well I can't recall getting such abuse from him myself, and when I saw him giving it to others it was generally people he had long running feuds with, who were doing the same to him.

Heads should roll

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Sunday, May 31, 2009 5:53 PM

I have an opinion what rappy was doing here. Rappy is, IMHO, delusional. And people who are delusional don't process contradicting information normally. What they do is twist facts around until they can re-justify their delusion, and this give them a shot of dopamine (the addiction neurotransmitter). So- IMHO- rappy was not here to discuss and he wasn't even here to proselytize. He wasn't trying to convince anyone else of his viewpoints, he was convincing HIMSELF. Everyone else here are just shadow puppets to his own mental drama.

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Sunday, May 31, 2009 6:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JKiddo:
I have an opinion what rappy was doing here. Rappy is, IMHO, delusional. And people who are delusional don't process contradicting information normally. What they do is twist facts around until they can re-justify their delusion, and this give them a shot of dopamine (the addiction neurotransmitter).

Same can be said about anyone with a strong opinion.
Some of his posts were about as straight laced as you can get. It was those who didn't want to hear what he had to say that twisted it into a mockery(attacking his character, and motive) because of their blind Obama worship.
Like you attack his character even now. Delusional doesn't enter into the equation. He simply expressed interest in real world events that most on this site don't agree with.

Funny thing is if someone else had written the exact posts as he(READ: favored people) they would have been met with generosity, and understanding.
But beacuse Rappy is Rappy he got attacked nearly every time, which is unfair, and uncalled for.

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Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:25 PM

I don't know what a "straight laced" post is. There are facts and then there are not-facts. Rappy is one of those people who thinks the earth is flat, despite all evidence to the contrary. But if you want to go through some of his opinions with me, I'll be happy to. Just don't start name-calling.

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Monday, June 1, 2009 1:14 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:

But beacuse Rappy is Rappy he got attacked nearly every time, which is unfair, and uncalled for.

You were saying something about favoured posters? It appears Rap is yours. Every argument, every slanging match, EVERY SINGLE insult thrown at Rap, was in response to an attack he made on someone else.

Unfair and uncalled for? Bullshit. He was treated as he treated others, his treatment was not only fair, it was even moderate compared to his own behaviour. Unfair and uncalled for describes only one persons treatment of others here, AURaptor's. If by unfair and uncalled for, you mean he was treated much more fairly, honestly and respectfully than he ever treated others, then you're on to something. His treatment of anyone who dared disagree with his yes, FASCIST viewpoint, really was unfair and uncalled for.

The charges of racism made up? Or Maybe certain people don't WANT to see Rap's self evident racism, because he calls himself a conservative, making him "one of them". Rap's no conservative, Rap wasn't even a real person, Rap was/is someone's sockpuppet. People didn't distort his reasonable conservative views, his views WERE the distortion. Personally my estimation would be that Chrisisall has been pulling Rap's strings, but regardless people aren't distorting him or his position, if you say things that can be put side by side with quotes from the motherfucking nazis, and it be difficult to tell what was Rap's statements, and what was Himmlers, I get to call you a Fascist. Don't like it, don't be a Fascist, pretty easy that.

AURaptor spouted off about towel heads and camel jockeys, AURaptor would like to see the whole middle east turned into a grave yard. AURaptor openly supported the murder of innocent children, babies in fact, because they were Palestinian.

The charges of Fascism and Racism are fairly solid, just because you're willing to turn a blind eye because he erroneously claims that he is a conservative, doesn't mean anyone else will or should. And yeah, if you hold and support terrible opinions, if you spout racism and fascist sentiment, you ARE a bad person, lets get that shit straight right now. IF AURaptor is the screen name of a real person, and IF that person holds the views and opinions that AURaptor spouts, that person is withered to the core. In fact it's really appropriate you mentioned the nazis, because frankly they're the only other group that sounds like Rap.

You want to defend Nazi's if they call themselves "conservative", go for it. Go read Mein Kampf and comeback here and tell us Hitler wasn't such a bad sort after all. Sure he wanted to kill all the Jews, but he was a Vegetarian and he did LOVE his Dogs. So he couldn't be a terrible person really.

And for the record, while you're carrying Rap's water for him, banging on about the injustice of his treatment, you should perhaps realise that you are doing exactly to us what you erroneously claim we're doing to Rap. You need to believe that all "libruls" are bad people, and all conservatives are good so much that you'll even defend a wannabe Nazi if they call themselves "Conservative"? Really? Bravo.

The fact you can defend someone with no contribution, no character, and no visible basic human decency, while trying to character assassinate anyone who objects to that shadows evil, speaks to only one persons character.

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Monday, June 1, 2009 1:39 AM

Quote:
Not everyone here sees that the way I do. Folk like Rue didn't see ANY flaws in their own party. I also hesitate linking any cites for what I believe simply for the fact that if it's Fox New or something that's remotely Conservative, others will dismiss it out of hand and not even consider it. That is the frustration I feel, but I certainly don't hold it against anyone.

Ripper, it isn't that Rue can't *see* any flaws in her party - it's that calcified mindset that folks like Rappy brought here, where if you EVER admit so much as "Yeah, Obama screwed the pooch on that one...", they're going to immediately pounce in and shout, "I WIN! I TOLD YOU SO! HE'S A SOCIALIST! THERE'S THE PROOF - YOU AGREED HE'S NOT THE MESSIAH!!"

As a reaction to that, many found themselves unable to admit here what they'd freely admit elsewhere - that Obama was their choice, and remains so, but that on several key issues, he's been a bit of a disappointment. It doesn't make you less of an Obama supporter to say the man has his flaws. Most so-called Christians I know can only name one man in history who DIDN'T have any flaws, after all...

Now, as to the issue of to cite or not to cite. When you find something you'd like to cite, search a little and see if you can find a cite from a known-liberal AND a known-conservative source (since it's become increasingly apparent that there really ARE no known-neutral sources any more!). That way, somebody might have an issue with the SPIN on the story, but they can't have much of an issue with the FACTS of the reportage.

You'll quickly see, though, if you start comparing coverages, that those "facts" are a bit fungible depending on who's reporting them, and what agenda they're pushing. At the best of times, it's subtle, almost invisible; at the present time, it's glaring and damned annoying.

By the way, you know where I learned that "attack the messenger" mentality and tactic? From watching Rappy do it for so long. Any time you posted something with which he disagreed on ideological grounds, he was quick to jump in and dismiss whatever source you might cite. Oddly, though, he often used those same sources himself, when they reported something he agreed with.

THAT is why I started trying to nail him down and ask which set of rules he wanted to play by, because clearly he wouldn't trust a source like NBC News when it reported bad news for conservatives, but he'd cite them over and over if they reported something tetchy or uncomfortable about liberals.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

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Monday, June 1, 2009 1:57 AM

Quote:

Same can be said about anyone with a strong opinion.
Some of his posts were about as straight laced as you can get. It was those who didn't want to hear what he had to say that twisted it into a mockery(attacking his character, and motive) because of their blind Obama worship.

Which is EXACTLY what you've just done yourself, in this very post. You say the people who didn't want to hear Rappy twisted his words and mocked him "because of their blind Obama worship"; funny, that. In that one clause, you've dismissed any liberal or progressive argument out of hand, in essence calling everyone who supports Obama to any degree "delusional".

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

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Monday, June 1, 2009 3:01 AM

RIPWASH

But I think some of this still boils down to people not thinking things all the way through when they post - and again this is because of the emotional factor that some political issues bring out in all of us. In fact, this was the point of one of my first posts in RWED and I got skewered for it because I was being considered a Rappy apologist/supporter. That was quickly rectified, thankfully. But it just made me even more skittish about posting here.

Take what Oppyh wrote about Obama worship, for example. Instead of jumping down his/her throat, couldn't somebody just have said "You sure you don't wanna rephrase that?" The initial part of his/her sentence held true in essence. That SOME of Rappy's posts may have been straight-laced and had some merit, but some folk didn't want to see them for what they were and commenced with the personal attacks or whatnot. And yes, I know NOW that's because of the history Rappy built up for himself, but Conservative folk (not all evil, war-loving hate-mongers, mind you) comming into this thread after that history has been built up take a look at everything going on and say, "This is NOT the place to have a civilized, rational discussion." And if you ask me, folk like Whozit only add to the problem by stirring the pot on purpose.

The way I look at it is
1)If you're not 100% certain about something, admit it! i.e. I'm not certain about Iraq having WMD, but the whole thing sure was fishy enough, IMHO, that the case could be built in favor of that assumption. That you may disagree on that point is . . . well, a disagreement

2)Admit the fact that your source may be a little biased, but that it makes sense to you. i.e. I know you guys dont like Fox News, Hannity or Beck, but by golly what they say makes a heck of a lot of sense to me most times. And I'll proudly pronounce that from here on out. You guys are emboldening me, so watch out

3)If you post something that turns out to be in error, admit the fault and add some snark if you'd like, but be honest with yourself. i.e. I humbly backed down and admited my lack of intelligence when it came to healthcare against those who seemed to know more than me (Rue and Sig). I told them they won that round even though I didn't agree totally with what they said. Kwicko has freely admitted that maybe Pelosi and Reid aren't the best leaders for the Democratic Party.

I guess what I'm trying to say is let's have a fresh start of things. Let's ALL try to be more civil. And that goes for EVERYONE. Not any particular person on either side.

*Edited to add - I think we all appreciate Anthony's posts here because he is very kind and seems to really think his way all the way through what he posts. I think he may have been "scared away" again because I haven't seen him post in a while. Could it be because of the in-fighting? If so, then that's pretty sad, if you ask me.

*********************************************
Mal: You think she'll hold together?
Zoë: She's torn up plenty, but she'll fly true.
Mal: Could be bumpy.
Zoë: Always is

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Monday, June 1, 2009 4:10 AM