Slave labor in the USA by canttakesky

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/health/abuse/news.php?q=121313
2136

"Corporations are getting rich using federal prisoners as captive labor pools."

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I'm for privatization as much as the next libertarian, but there are certain things that shouldn't be privatized. Force (prison) and profit (cheap labor) don't mix well.

I've been wondering why the USA keeps 2-3 million people in prison, 1% of its total population, a higher percentage than in any other country, and a higher total prison population than any other country. Now here is the clue.

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The corporation is a true Frankenstein's monster - an artificial person run amok, responsible only to its own soulless self.
-- William Dugger, management analyst

Perhaps the 3 million are in prison 'cause they were tried and convicted of doing a no-no?

Also...your tag line quote is incomplete. "The corporation......to its' own soulless soul". Need to add "AND the millions of average working Americans who own stock shares or mutual funds with those corporations." Of course recent history has taught us that some Corporations are the greedy monster your quote references, and don't care about their stockholders, but most do.

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Tuesday, June 9, 2009 5:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Perhaps the 3 million are in prison 'cause they were tried and convicted of doing a no-no?

They wouldn't be tried and convicted, if there weren't so many activities defined as crimes.

Let me rephrase the question. Why are there so many activities legislated as crimes in this country to produce a higher rate of incarceration than any other country on earth?

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I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpation.
-- James Madison

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Tuesday, June 9, 2009 6:26 PM

Here are some of the "no-no's" you can go to jail for in the USA.

1. Giving a tour of downtown Philadelphia without getting a license.
http://donttasemeblog.com/2008/07/philadelphia-outlaws-giving-to.html

2. Owning a BB gun in the wrong state.
http://donttasemeblog.com/2008/07/jersey-mall-clerk-faces-jail-t.html

3. Not having enough money to pay a fine AND pay for room and board in jail at the same time.
http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/guilty-of-being-poor/

4. Hanging a flag upside down
http://www.mountainx.com/news/2007/flagged_down_activists_arrested_in_
row_over_protest_flag_allege_abuse_by_bu

The list can go on and on. You get the idea.

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The Creator gathered all of creation and said, 'I want to hide something from the humans until they are ready for it. It is the realization that they create their own reality.'
The eagle said, 'Give it to me, I will take it to the moon.' The Creator said, 'No one day they will go there and find it.'
The salmon said, 'I will hide it on the bottom of the ocean.' 'No, they will go there too.'
The buffalo said, 'I will bury it on the great plains.' The Creator said, 'They will cut into the skin of the earth and find it.'
Then Grandmother Mole, who lives in the breast of Mother Earth, and who has no physical eyes but sees with spiritual eyes, said: 'Put it inside them.'
And the Creator said, 'It is done.'
-- Sioux Legend

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Tuesday, June 9, 2009 7:41 PM

BADKARMA00

I have no problem with prisoners being required to work. I do have an issue with private prisons, however. Prisons should remain a government function, and the work that prisoners do should benefit the taxpayers, whether it's saving money by doing work inside the prison itself, or doing community work outside, such as helping with beautification efforts, road maintenance, picking up litter, etc.

Bad_karma
Great and Exalted Grand Pooba, International Brotherhood of Moonshiners, Rednecks, and Good Old Boys.

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Wednesday, June 10, 2009 2:44 AM

The point is of this article is, prison labor has been hijacked by a for profit corporation and is now sold to other for-profit corporations.

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There are only two mistakes one can make along the road to truth. Not going all the way, and not starting.
-- Buddha

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Wednesday, June 10, 2009 2:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Also...your tag line quote is incomplete. "The corporation......to its' own soulless soul". Need to add "AND the millions of average working Americans who own stock shares or mutual funds with those corporations." Of course recent history has taught us that some Corporations are the greedy monster your quote references, and don't care about their stockholders, but most do.

The shareholders are included in its "soulless self." The corporation is responsible to its shareholders and nothing else. The artificial legal immunity it provides for its shareholders is what makes it "soulless."

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Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.
-- Abraham Lincoln

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Wednesday, June 10, 2009 2:51 AM

BADKARMA00

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
The point is of this article is, prison labor has been hijacked by a for profit corporation and is now sold to other for-profit corporations.

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There are only two mistakes one can make along the road to truth. Not going all the way, and not starting.
-- Buddha

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I get that. I said I didn't think it was right. And, it seems to me, it gives the outfit using that prison labor an unfair advantage over competitors. Looks like that would bear an investigation don't it.

Bad_karma
Great and Exalted Grand Pooba, International Brotherhood of Moonshiners, Rednecks, and Good Old Boys.

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Wednesday, June 10, 2009 3:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by badkarma00:
I get that. I said I didn't think it was right.

You objected to private prisons. I do too.

The thing is (and I should have made it clearer in my last post) this prison labor being hijacked for-profit is occurring in government-owned and operated prisons as well as privately run prisons.

That is, it is not enough to object to private prisons. For-profit prison labor is not acceptable, whether in privately run or government-run prisons.

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Dost thou love life? Then do not squander time, for that's the stuff life is made of.
-- Benjamin Franklin

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Wednesday, June 10, 2009 3:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Here are some of the "no-no's" you can go to jail for in the USA.

1. Giving a tour of downtown Philadelphia without getting a license.
http://donttasemeblog.com/2008/07/philadelphia-outlaws-giving-to.html

2. Owning a BB gun in the wrong state.
http://donttasemeblog.com/2008/07/jersey-mall-clerk-faces-jail-t.html

3. Not having enough money to pay a fine AND pay for room and board in jail at the same time.
http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/guilty-of-being-poor/

4. Hanging a flag upside down
http://www.mountainx.com/news/2007/flagged_down_activists_arrested_in_
row_over_protest_flag_allege_abuse_by_bu

The list can go on and on. You get the idea.

There are still a lot of silly statutes on the books in many states. I think a decent attorney could probably keep you out of prison for those things.

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Wednesday, June 10, 2009 5:29 AM

RIGHTEOUS9

Yeah, keeping profit out of prisons, and I mean all profit(private and public), seems like the safer road to take. I don't want our legislative body to have an incentive to criminalize more, to extend sentencing, beyond the safety to the public.

I doubt there's a flip-side to this. There will always be an incentive for politicians to keep dangerous people off the streets, so that crime numbers are not as rampant in their states, so i'm not concerned about cost prohibitive issues here.

We incarcerate more people per capita than any other country, I believe...

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Wednesday, June 10, 2009 5:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
There are still a lot of silly statutes on the books in many states. I think a decent attorney could probably keep you out of prison for those things.

Which is why most people in prison are poor. They didn't get decent attorneys.

--------------------------
That Government which Governs the Least, Governs Best.
-- Thomas Jefferson

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Wednesday, June 10, 2009 5:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
There are still a lot of silly statutes on the books in many states. I think a decent attorney could probably keep you out of prison for those things.
Which is why most people in prison are poor. They didn't get decent attorneys.

--------------------------
That Government which Governs the Least, Governs Best.
-- Thomas Jefferson

You don't know that. Besides, with murderers, thieves, rapists, pedophiles, etc. I don't care if they're poor or not. The vast majority of poor people do not commit crimes, and it's never any type of excuse anyhow.

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Wednesday, June 10, 2009 5:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:

Yeah, keeping profit out of prisons, and I mean all profit(private and public), seems like the safer road to take. I don't want our legislative body to have an incentive to criminalize more, to extend sentencing, beyond the safety to the public.

I'm all for hard labor for felons convicted of violent crimes. Better they work hard to pay their debt to society than to lift weights, write poetry, and rape the new guys.

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Wednesday, June 10, 2009 7:09 AM

RIGHTEOUS9

You totally miss the point

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Wednesday, June 10, 2009 7:12 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
The vast majority of poor people do not commit crimes, and it's never any type of excuse anyhow.

Bullshit.

When you do it to SURVIVE, prison isn't exactly the negative incentive you'd think, since at least you get three hots and a cot - and the yard is not significantly more dangerous than the environment them folks are already in.

Don't give me that no excuse bullshit neither, if the only other option is to just lay down and die for the corporate societies better world, you can rest assured there will be folk who do not do it.

Talk to me when you've chewed tree bark and drank melted snow the morning after your battered, badly crippled self had to fight to keep a park bench so you could avoid sleeping on the ground and maybe survive the infection and keep the exposure and respiratory distress from turning into pneumonia and killing you.

The vast majority of poor folk commit "crimes" as a practical necessity required for sheer survival, and that you do not know this simply shows beyond all doubt your complete and utter ignorance of the topic at hand.

Next time you put your mouth in gear, might wanna make sure your brain actually has something to run on.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Wednesday, June 10, 2009 7:18 AM

RIGHTEOUS9

The irony about incarcerated labor is that I very much doubt it does the states or the public any good, because it takes jobs away from the taxpayers who are fronting the bill for prisons in the first place.

There is no win there.

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Wednesday, June 10, 2009 7:45 AM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
There are still a lot of silly statutes on the books in many states. I think a decent attorney could probably keep you out of prison for those things.
Which is why most people in prison are poor. They didn't get decent attorneys.

--------------------------
That Government which Governs the Least, Governs Best.
-- Thomas Jefferson

You don't know that. Besides, with murderers, thieves, rapists, pedophiles, etc. I don't care if they're poor or not. The vast majority of poor people do not commit crimes, and it's never any type of excuse anyhow.

Once again, Jongs, you've missed the point entirely.

The vast majority of poor people don't commit crimes, but neither do the majority of rich people, necessarily. The POINT is that if you're poor, you're much less likely to get a decent attorney than if you're rich. Hence, the poor are unfairly represented in the prison population.

Likewise, black people are for more likely to be sent to prison than white people, even for the same crime. None of this is conjecture; it's been researched and documented.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

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Wednesday, June 10, 2009 8:00 AM

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Speaking from a platform of political philosophy here..I have no issue with prisoners working so long as the fruits of the labor are enjoyed in whole by the people. So for example, the old system of making licence plates applies.

What I do not support is prisoner labor somehow causing a profit for either private business or an individual.

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Wednesday, June 10, 2009 8:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
Speaking from a platform of political philosophy here..I have no issue with prisoners working so long as the fruits of the labor are enjoyed in whole by the people. So for example, the old system of making licence plates applies.

What I do not support is prisoner labor somehow causing a profit for either private business or an individual.

Bingo. I'm right there with you and BadKarma on this one. I don't have a problem with the prisoners working. Hell, THEY don't have a problem with it, from what I hear. A friend of mine got out recently after a 6-year stint in the pen, and he says if it wasn't for the work, he'd have gone crazy.

I have a problem with the idea of companies bidding out jobs by using cheaper prison labor to do the work. And this isn't necessarily a new thing; there have been call centers in prisons for a while now, so if you're not talking to someone in Mumbai when you call customer service, there's a very good chance you're talking to a convicted felon who's currently a resident of the Graybar Hilton.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

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Wednesday, June 10, 2009 9:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
When you do it to SURVIVE, prison isn't exactly the negative incentive you'd think, since at least you get three hots and a cot - and the yard is not significantly more dangerous than the environment them folks are already in.

Except now some jails are charging room and board. It's in one of the links I posted up there... the one at dissidentvoice.org.

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Wednesday, June 10, 2009 2:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
Speaking from a platform of political philosophy here..I have no issue with prisoners working so long as the fruits of the labor are enjoyed in whole by the people. So for example, the old system of making licence plates applies.

What I do not support is prisoner labor somehow causing a profit for either private business or an individual.

Right. I don't think anyone here has a problem with prisoners working to "pay back society," if you will.

The issue of this thread, slave labor, is about for-profit slave labor.

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Thursday, June 11, 2009 1:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Talk to me when you've chewed tree bark and drank melted snow the morning

Are those the necessary qualifications to become a total raving basket case like you? I guess I'll never know because I've never been a pathetic whining loser like you. I live well and always have, and I don't apologize or feel guilty about it. By the way, how'd you like the yellow snow? A bit tangy perhaps?

says the tree whose bark you stripped away.

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Thursday, June 11, 2009 1:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Once again, Jongs, you've missed the point entirely.

You mean the point that your empty head comes to after being shaped for decades under a dunce cap? I never miss that point.

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Friday, June 12, 2009 12:38 AM

FREMDFIRMA

You know, it's kind of depressing when the local loon population is doing such a good job of destroying their own cause I got nothin left to work with...

Anyhows, interestingly enough Retta recently posted something on this topic herself.

Law and Ordered
http://www.strike-the-root.com/91/fontana/fontana2.html

Nice lady, lives not too far from here, and subscribes to the same beliefs for the most part, but she's WAY more polite than I am ever gonna get, heh.

And as for you bongjaw... I'd threaten to psychologically mutilate you, but I see someone else has already beaten me to it, go take your meds like a good little drone.

-F

EDIT: Errr...
Lemme amend that a bit, Retta is polite enough in her own way, but than again, so is Granny Weatherwax...
(oh she's SO gonna choke me if she ever sees that!).
http://www.strike-the-root.com/62/fontana/fontana14.html

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Friday, June 12, 2009 1:51 AM

Quote:

And as for you bongjaw... I'd threaten to psychologically mutilate you, but I see someone else has already beaten me to it, go take your meds like a good little drone.

-F

Actually, I think that's the problem - Jongsy has been self-medicating again, 40 ounces at a time.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Friday, June 12, 2009 2:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
You know, it's kind of depressing when the local loon population is doing such a good job of destroying their own cause I got nothin left to work with...

And as for you bongjaw... I'd threaten to psychologically mutilate you, but I see someone else has already beaten me to it, go take your meds like a good little drone.

-F

Hey Fred, please go ahead and threaten. That's what you're best at. But I believe you're confusing psychological mutilation with the typical mental masterbation that you exhibit here regularly.

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Friday, June 12, 2009 10:55 AM