Obama is doing a job. by OPPYH

And they are the most fun to put the screws to.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, June 26, 2009 10:15 AM

RIPWASH

I dunno Chris . . . He seemed pretty knowledgable to me.

But let me get this straight:
Signym and Rue say they're knowledgable in the medical field, so we're supposed to take them at their word on medical related "stuff." No questions asked.

Mike comes around, seems to know at thing or two about guns, military strategy and the like and you guys wanna dismiss everything he says because he's "obviously" a right wing looney war-monger. And once again I heard the "He's Auraptor!" cry.

You guys amaze me sometimes . . .

*********************************************

"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"

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Friday, June 26, 2009 10:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:

Mike comes around, seems to know at thing or two about guns, military strategy and the like and you guys wanna dismiss everything he says because he's "obviously" a right wing looney war-monger.

No, because he's a slanter.

"The accused is innocent until proven guilty. PROVE the US sold weapons to Saddam, or shut up."

"And DoD OPPOSED selling dual use equipment to Iraq, but was overridden by the Pollyannas at State who figured he was a nice guy.

Nope, the Left bears pretty much total responsibility for this mess."

See? So, yellowcake is a weapon, but this isn't:
"The Senate committee's reports on 'US Chemical and Biological Warfare-Related Dual-Use Exports to Iraq', undertaken in 1992 in the wake of the Gulf war, give the date and destination of all US exports. The reports show, for example, that on May 2, 1986, two batches of bacillus anthracis -- the micro-organism that causes anthrax -- were shipped to the Iraqi Ministry of Higher Education, along with two batches of the bacterium clostridium botulinum, the agent that causes deadly botulism poisoning."

So, we didn't sell them weapons, but we did sell them weapons.

And the accused are innocent until proven guilty, unless you believe they're guilty, in which case they are, like the Left which bears all that "responsibility" .

I can't abide nonsense like that from someone who purports to be "in the know".

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, June 26, 2009 10:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
Mike comes around, seems to know at thing or two about guns, military strategy and the like and you guys wanna dismiss everything he says because he's "obviously" a right wing looney war-monger. And once again I heard the "He's Auraptor!" cry.

You guys amaze me sometimes . . .

I asked him to cut the "I'm in the military, so shut up you know nothing idiots" bullshit, and gently pointed out that since I spend my work days with pretty high up people, I wasn't going to be swayed by anyone trying to brow beat me with military credentials. I didn't say I'm better than him. I didn't say I was a high up, or any of the other shit he jabbered on about, I just pointed out that I'm not going to be swayed by him trying to brow beat me with his military credentials.

Take a look at how our friend reacted. Apparently I don't do for a living what I've been paid for for the last several years, and Mike knows this because, well because of a couple of lines on an internet forum and the fact I'm not bending down to suck his well over inflated E-Penis.

I met a few people in the military who talk like this Mike fella, and I'll tell you this for nothing, they give it all the biggun, they try and shout down everyone and brow beat with their military credentials, because they feel they have something to prove, and they feel they have something to prove, because they haven't proven it through their service.

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Friday, June 26, 2009 11:33 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:

Mike comes around, seems to know at thing or two about guns, military strategy and the like and you guys wanna dismiss everything he says because he's "obviously" a right wing looney war-monger. And once again I heard the "He's Auraptor!" cry.

You guys amaze me sometimes . . .

I'm not "dismissing" anything he has to offer - certainly not as quickly as he seems to dismiss others. For all his Democrat-bashing rhetoric, I never once heard him utter a word about the U.S.'s Viet Nam exit strategy. "Cut & Run" would be a pretty apt description of Nixon's exit. And don't even get me started on the fact that Nixon ran in '68 on the platform promise that he'd get us out of Viet Nam - and he did keep that promise... about 6 years late.

Also, I'm not a big fan of the "been there, done that, so I'm an expert" school of thought. I know people who were in Grenada, who were in Panama (did I mention I grew up on military bases?), who were in Viet Nam, who were in Korea, who were in Germany, Africa, and Japan in WWII, and who were in The Sandbox both times around. None of them are "experts" in the conflicts they fought in. They were there, doing a job, and IF THEY WERE LUCKY, their C.O. told them a tiny bit of the Big Picture story of what was really going on, and why.

My late father served in Viet Nam, and was proud to do it, but to his dying day, he couldn't tell you WHY he was sent there, or what it accomplished, except to fuck up a whole lot of people on both sides, him included. Do y'all defer to his expertise on this matter? Is no dissent from this viewpoint to be allowed?

Mike is welcome to post his thoughts and opinions here, and we're welcome to disagree with him. What he's NOT welcome to do is come in all bluster and bullshit and start telling others that they have no right to disagree, or that they're idiots if they do. THAT is where the AuRaptor comparisons start.

Blowing things out your ass like "all the lefties in State" is just asinine. I can as easily say "under Reagan and both Bushes, the entire government was run roughshod by nothing but murderous warmongers, and if you disagree I'll laugh at you."

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Friday, June 26, 2009 11:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Blowing things out your ass like "all the lefties in State" is just asinine.

With splatter marks, even.

LOL

The laughing Chrisisall

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Saturday, June 27, 2009 2:49 PM

RIPWASH

Well . . . I didn't say I agreed with HOW he said some of it.

He was a little harsh here and there. But I thought he had some good stuff to say.

*********************************************

"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"

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Saturday, June 27, 2009 3:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
Well . . . I didn't say I agreed with HOW he said some of it. He was a little harsh here and there. But I thought he had some good stuff to say.

I was interested myself, but when he started with the condescension thing- I mean even our PRESIDENT has a hard time knowing what's goin' on...

The laughing Chrisisall

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Saturday, June 27, 2009 5:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I'd willingly follow a socialist utopia that curtails freedoms than a right-wing agenda that wants more freedom at the cost of millions of human lives- in a perfect world we'd have the choice, in this world it's blood or Starfleet.

More like blood or 1984 (blood behind closed doors).

There is no such thing as a Socialist Utopia so long as Human Beings enter into the equation.

It's funny that the only thing that Sci-Fi movies and TV shows have to offer that I can't swallow is the Utopia.

If you want a more recent example of the way life will imitate art, watch Minority Report again.... or better yet... read the Phillip K. Dick short story. Then read the rest of his stuff because that guy rocks.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Saturday, June 27, 2009 5:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

There is no such thing as a Socialist Utopia so long as Human Beings enter into the equation.

You will never command a starship with that attitude.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Saturday, June 27, 2009 7:02 PM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
More like blood or 1984 (blood behind closed doors).

There is no such thing as a Socialist Utopia so long as Human Beings enter into the equation.

It's funny that the only thing that Sci-Fi movies and TV shows have to offer that I can't swallow is the Utopia.

If you want a more recent example of the way life will imitate art, watch Minority Report again.... or better yet... read the Phillip K. Dick short story. Then read the rest of his stuff because that guy rocks.

I would actually argue that there is no such thing as a Socialist utopia so long as Human Beings refuse to give two shits about each other.

That is a destructive behaviour our species has started to overexhibit which I believe must eventually be overcome... Or we'll make ourselves extinct.

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Saturday, June 27, 2009 10:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
I would actually argue that there is no such thing as a Socialist utopia so long as Human Beings refuse to give two shits about each other.

That is a destructive behaviour our species has started to overexhibit which I believe must eventually be overcome... Or we'll make ourselves extinct.

How do you propose we *make* that happen?

The movie Equilibrium comes to mind, but then again, at the end of that movie they chose blood over zombieism.

That is one dream that will never be realized. And I just said recently that we will end up annihilating our own species in the end. The only reason we're starting to "overexibit" the bad is because it's become the collective bad that only a handful of people are in charge of today.

The bad has always been there. From the day your kids are born you don't have to teach them how to steal. If you don't teach them NOT to steal, they will steal.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Sunday, June 28, 2009 12:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
Well . . . I didn't say I agreed with HOW he said some of it. He was a little harsh here and there. But I thought he had some good stuff to say.

He might have done. But if you act like a prick, you'll get treated like one, and you'll be the one to blame for that.

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Sunday, June 28, 2009 3:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
But if you act like a prick, you'll get treated like one, and you'll be the one to blame for that.

Hmmmmmmm..... I wonder if the same standard applies to Citizen?

Place your bets....

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Hmmmmmmm..... I wonder if the same standard applies to Citizen?

Place your bets....

Depends if your criteria is something I've done, or something you want to blame me for since you can't take responsibility for your own actions.

Related issue, do you remember saying this:

Quote:
Cool man. Whatever.

You go about your business and I'll go about mine.

Since I'm "not even shit on [your] heel", I find it strange that you're so fixated on me. What's even stranger is that, for someone who like to portray himself as Libertarian, you find the very concept of not forcing a confrontation so difficult and alien.

It's cool, I've got my own hate filled acolyte. Someone so blindly devoted to me, that they can't just ignore my posts, they have to respond to voice their hate. Someone who sees me as such an important figure in their issues, try as they might, they simply cannot ignore me. You're like a moth to my flame Jack. You can't even tolerate RipWash mentioning my name without spitting vitriol, you hate me Jack, and your hate is based on a fantasy you concocted, that I'm sure you believe, but nevertheless was created merely to legitimise the irrational hate you feel for anyone who doesn't agree with you.

I think it's both sweet and sad you've focused on me.

Bit of background:
Jack has decided that I drew a conspiracy against him, to end a friendship with a mutual friend.

Reality: Jack, in a typical display of childish furore went off at me for no reason once, so I told him some truths about him, which he decided had come from the mutual friend, when in reality they came from the fact that he is so mind numbingly and patently transparent. He threw a temper-tantrum, ended the friendship, and has blamed me for his immature outburst ever since.

Of course, the consequences of Jacks actions could never be his fault. So goes this "libertarian's" belief in personal responsibility. No, it makes much more sense that I conspired against him, because, because, well there's no motive actually, probably because I'm evil.

In fact Jack, it's just your fevered paranoid mind legitimising your own irrational hatred. I never conspired against you, you were never worth the effort, even if I were the kind of person to do such a thing. What is becoming increasingly obvious, is that you are that kind of person, you are that consumed with hatred for me, and all your belief that I did these things to you, is merely your justification for wanting to do them to me.

Go live your sad life, continue to blame me for your troubles, no matter how much you wish you could, you can never harm me. As such I'm indifferent you sad, insane paranoid psycho. So go on, continue to hate, seethe with your blind hatred of a faceless internet personality until it's all you have. Lets be honest, besides raving at the 'man', and crying about the cost of Cigarettes, it's very nearly all you have already. Let it shrivel you up inside if that's what you want, because truly since you won't listen to reason or reality, I refuse to let your paranoia effect me any longer.

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Sunday, June 28, 2009 5:16 AM

You know no truths about me Cit.

Neither do I of you.

This is why I never would have started telling people stuff about you behind your back and trying to influence them against you. Anything I've had to say about you was right here in the open for anyone to read and judge my judgements.

No.... That is what YOU chose to do.

If there is anyone who I've ever had a deep disrespect for online in any of the arguments I've ever had, it is you, and only you. Somehow, you've been the only one to transcend the anonymity of the internet and enter into my own life in however meaningful or trivial the way.

You didn't like me or what I had to say (just as I didn't care for you), but you decided to make it personal and start talking about me behind my back with somebody I met and shared some common interests with.

There was no need to do this, and very little to base your opinions on other than internet posts which are notoriously misinterpreted in the first place.

You are a piece of shit, Cit. You are no better than a Televangelist who tells the world they should act one way while they're fucking the intern.

The fact that you can type English as good as Hero and manipulate normal words into Doublethink not withstanding, nothing you have to say about anything holds any meaning.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Sunday, June 28, 2009 5:43 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
...you can type English as good as Hero...

As well as...

Sorry, I just couldn't resist. And I'm just playin', 6ix - tryin' to lighten the mood a wee bit.

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Sunday, June 28, 2009 5:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
This is why I never would have started telling people stuff about you behind your back and trying to influence them against you. Anything I've had to say about you was right here in the open for anyone to read and judge my judgements.

No.... That is what YOU chose to do.

I really didn't. I don't care how you want to legitimise your irrational hatred.

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
If there is anyone who I've ever had a deep disrespect for online in any of the arguments I've ever had, it is you, and only you. Somehow, you've been the only one to transcend the anonymity of the internet and enter into my own life in however meaningful or trivial the way.

And You've not entered in to my life at all. You're the one who's consumed with hatred over nothing, and that's entirely down to you and you alone.

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
You didn't like me or what I had to say (just as I didn't care for you), but you decided to make it personal and start talking about me behind my back with somebody I met and shared some common interests with.

There was no need to do this, and very little to base your opinions on other than internet posts which are notoriously misinterpreted in the first place.

Actually, you often and continually got personal. So, when you were mentioned, one time, I said I thought you were a prick. No more no less, and not once did I try to turn anyone against anyone. I never spoke to the person who I supposedly turned against you about you again until after you had thrown a childish temper-tantrum and you cut off contact. There's no need to do most of the stuff you've ever done in respect to me, before or after this defining event, but you did them any way because you can't tolerate people with opinions different to your own. You twisted everything inside your head. She didn't break off contact because I was more important to her or she knew me longer, YOU broke off contact. Every slight detail of what really happened has been warped in your paranoid little mind to legitimise your hatred, yet it's still nothing more than fantasy.

You're the one that can't stand to ignore me, it's you that has a deep core of hatred.

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
You are a piece of shit, Cit. You are no better than a Televangelist who tells the world they should act one way while they're fucking the intern.

The fact that you can type English as good as Hero and manipulate normal words into Doublethink not withstanding, nothing you have to say about anything holds any meaning.

The self styled Libertarian wannabe Authoritarian Dictator accuses others of Hypocrisy. Now that's funny!

Mmmhhhhm. Feel the hatred.

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Sunday, June 28, 2009 6:36 AM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

How do you propose we *make* that happen?

The movie Equilibrium comes to mind, but then again, at the end of that movie they chose blood over zombieism.

That is one dream that will never be realized. And I just said recently that we will end up annihilating our own species in the end. The only reason we're starting to "overexibit" the bad is because it's become the collective bad that only a handful of people are in charge of today.

The bad has always been there. From the day your kids are born you don't have to teach them how to steal. If you don't teach them NOT to steal, they will steal.

Exactly as you say. Education and teaching by EXAMPLE. Currently, our society tries to teach people to get along with others - mostly to create a population of mindless followers, which ALSO needs to be addressed - but when children go home and their parents teach them violence, neglect, and self-serving behaviour, what pattern set are children going to take away?

So parents-to-be will need to be taught/have places they can go for advice and help, and we should try to ensure that every child is a child who's wanted and appreciated. Fixing the adoption system would be a good start. Also, we should continue to work on improving the quality of life for all people, because desperation causes many of these destructive behaviours.

I don't propose zombification, I propose people having empathy towards other people. We ARE capable of that, even if none of us are mind readers. Otherwise, you wouldn't see cases of strangers sacrificing themselves for others, or people trying to save someone who is hurt and dying when they don't know them.

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Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:20 AM

GRIPPER

I gotta toss in another vote for th ewhole 'blood over zombieism"thing...frankly I strongly resent ANYONE trying to put a leash on me-whether or not they have an "R" or a "D" next to their name.
I think someone summed it up better than I could ever hope to:"Any goverment big enough to give you evrything you want,is big enough to take everything you've got"...
No,I do not worship at the altar of the Leviathan State,and no;I have no trust;and little regard for the current president.
Unfortunately,the last one made enough mis-steps(perceieved or actual) to make this guy seem like a good pick to 51% of the voters.
Screw Utopia-count me as part of the "Leave Us Alone!"coalition.

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Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Exactly as you say. Education and teaching by EXAMPLE. Currently, our society tries to teach people to get along with others - mostly to create a population of mindless followers, which ALSO needs to be addressed - but when children go home and their parents teach them violence, neglect, and self-serving behaviour, what pattern set are children going to take away?

So parents-to-be will need to be taught/have places they can go for advice and help, and we should try to ensure that every child is a child who's wanted and appreciated. Fixing the adoption system would be a good start. Also, we should continue to work on improving the quality of life for all people, because desperation causes many of these destructive behaviours.

I don't propose zombification, I propose people having empathy towards other people. We ARE capable of that, even if none of us are mind readers. Otherwise, you wouldn't see cases of strangers sacrificing themselves for others, or people trying to save someone who is hurt and dying when they don't know them.

On an individual level I agree that we are capable of good.

Collectively, we are incapable of it though. The world has yet to divise a power structure that can maintain benevolent intentions and isn't bastardized to serve the wants of a few As long as human beings run it and are part of society, it will always fail to be Utopia.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:35 PM

You're funny Cit.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Sunday, June 28, 2009 5:45 PM

MIKEWILLIAMSON

I don't normally have to respond twice, but let's see what we have here:

A statement that just because I'm in the military, doesn't mean I know anything about military operations...I shouldn't even need to respond to that.

A suggestion that I should "prove" that the US didn't provide the US made weapons no one has seen in Iraq. Negative proof.

A claim that, without even knowing my background, I'm "only an NCO." That falls under ad hominem.

So far, we have a bunch of tricks used by someone who knows nothing about a subject, trying futilely to claim someone else doesn't either.

Now, what I posted was my THEORY, based on AVAILABLE EVIDENCE. If you feel my facts are wrong, feel free to refute them. If you feel my conclusions are wrong, offer a better theory. Don't try that, "it's about oil," BS, because I'll laugh at you:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/oil_gas/petroleum/info_glance/petroleum.html

hmm...looks like Iraq is right at 3.3% this month, which is about its historical high point. We got none from 1991-2003, and very little before, partly because the only terminal is a shallow water one in the Shatt al Arab, and because it's a long way away. Also, if it was about oil, one suspects the US military would have engineers like myself building pipelines and trucking highways, not power stations and hospitals. But feel free to develop your own theories.

Incidentally, while my last Army unit had 17 officers for 148 people, my last four USAF units had 3 officers each for about 150 people. So guess who does most of the planning and management in the Air Force? Gee, that would be NCOs.

Nor did I claim any special insight. I just used critical thinking. I also consulted with:

The Economic Policy Advisor for Eastern Europe, who's an Army Reserve sergeant, with a master's degree.

The Deputy of the Electronic Imaging Branch, who's a Guard sergeant with no degree.

A USN Academy grad (4.0) nucleonics engineer and surface warfare officer.

Her husband who is a sub and surface warfare officer and nuke engineer.

A USAF Academy grad and intel officer.

A former USAF intel officer, now engineer and contractor.

A former SEAL PO, later Navy software security contractor, and now security chief for a very large European bank.

A former USAF NCO who's a systems manager at USAF Global Weather Central.

A retired Army warrant officer special operations combat pilot from 160th SOAR, now "security contractor."

A non-degreed USAF command and control NCO.

Bunches of former and retired enlisted and officers in my forum, everything from Coastie mechanics to Rangers, infantry, mechanics, cryptologists and what have you.

Now, we could ALL be wrong, and possibly someone who can dismiss "just an NCO" is smarter than all of us.

But my bet is not.

In any case, I don't have time to argue about it. I have professional stuff to do.

You probably also don't want to believe that if President Fuckup tries a surge in Asscrackistan, it will work about as well as LBJ's surge in Vietnam, after Kennedy set him up for success.

You don't have to believe me. Go read the military history of Afghanistan.

In any case, I've had my say. If anyone has any concrete issues to discuss, feel free to email me. This thread is dead.

Oh, yes:

Ran across a useful cite:
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Arms-sales-to-Iraq-1973_1990

Summary $ value of arms sales to Iraq, 1973-1990:
USSR/WP: $30,301m
France: $5,595m
China: $5,192m
US: $200m
Egypt: $568m
Other: $2,104m

So, even if you count dual use equipment, .46% of Iraq's military resources. That would be about 10 helicopters and a few trucks. That's using the MOST FAVORABLE figures for the "we sold him weapons" crowd.

As far as "Western" weapons, I believe I mentioned what those French whores and their German and Russian counterparts provided. That's why the UN security council voted against invading--two of the permanent members had their @#$'s in the breeze.

I'm also surprised that wannabe Browncoats would care what the UN, the real world equivalent of the Alliance, think.

Recent novels by Michael Z. Williamson
CONTACT WITH CHAOS, Apr 09 from Baen Books
BETTER TO BEG FORGIVENESS..., Nov 07 from Baen Books
http://www.MichaelZWilliamson.com

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Wednesday, July 1, 2009 4:14 PM

HKCAVALIER

So, iirc, the original title of this thread was "Obama is doing a great job" and it's been "Obama is doing a job" for a while now. I like this second version of the title because that about sums up how I've felt about him from the beginning. I don't perceive the presidency as a religious office, head of the Church of Truth, Justice and the American Way; I don't see it as the grand prize in a game of capture the flag between the Good People and the Destroyers of Decency--I see it as a job, a pretty effed up, nigh impossible job. And as far as applicants go, this kid Obama was by far the stand out.

And I'd say he's doing alright, he's holding his own and despite what the 24 hour news cycle wants to think, it's still early days.

I never really expected him to be any more revolutionary than he already is--to ask for more could be asking for him to put his head on the block, and I don't demand that kind of thing of anyone, ever. He's the first ever black president of a western democracy at a time when this country is more divided than I've ever seen it.

Of course, I would like to have seen him get out in front of this horrific torture business and clean house. The problem is, if he were to do that, it would surely mean prosecuting the Bush Admin. and if the guy named Barrack Hussein Obama were to do that, he, I think, would be putting the biggest bulls-eye you've ever seen right over his breast pocket.

We've heard how close a certain constituency is to demanding his head. Civil war, assassination, tell me these things aren't remotely likely were Obama to release the photos of our people systematically raping the detainees and their family members; or if he were to release the last hundred or so detainees, tortured to within an inch of their lives, with all their stories to shout from every roof top.

These things need to happen, absolutely, and in the fullness of time, I think they will, but I don't blame Obama for letting "we the people" push that particular agenda. Sure, it makes him less of a hero, but who would ever HIRE a man to be a hero? Did we really hire this guy to save us from ourselves? I'll certainly take heroism where I can get it. I consider his speech in Egypt last month to be heroic, actually. But again, I can't fault an employee of mine for the heroism he doesn't--or has yet to--show.

Obama is doing a job and I don't know anyone else, who was a serious applicant for the position, who would or could be doing a better job right now. Honestly, aside from a few obvious long shots, when you look at the field of applicants, I think we're damn lucky to have Obama there right now.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Wednesday, July 1, 2009 4:40 PM

ANTIMASON

Quote:
Originally posted by gripper:
.... I think someone summed it up better than I could ever hope to:"Any goverment big enough to give you evrything you want,is big enough to take everything you've got"...
No,I do not worship at the altar of the Leviathan State,and no;I have no trust;and little regard for the current president.
...
Screw Utopia-count me as part of the "Leave Us Alone!"coalition.

thats what im screamin

...

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Wednesday, July 1, 2009 4:50 PM

ANTIMASON

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
And as far as applicants go, this kid Obama was by far the stand out.

i gotta disagree with you HK. if he was a stand out, its because the media glorified him as the second coming of FDR

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And I'd say he's doing alright, he's holding his own and despite what the 24 hour news cycle wants to think, it's still early days.

he's been in office 6 months, and hes tried to ram through every liberal initiative ever conceived! hes an incredibly ambitious SOB

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I never really expected him to be any more revolutionary than he already is

he has proved to be the most progressive idealogue ever to hold the office of presidency. IMO, he is a revolutionary.. only in the same league as Hugo Chavez, or any other marxist dictator

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Obama is doing a job and I don't know anyone else, who was a serious applicant for the position, who would or could be doing a better job right now. Honestly, aside from a few obvious long shots, when you look at the field of applicants, I think we're damn lucky to have Obama there right now.

oh come on HK, what about Ron Paul? theres a reason we were stuck with Obama and McCain.. because the powers that be chose them for us, to bring us inline with their agenda for global socialism. Ron Paul, the only person running to advocated low taxes, reduced spending, non-intervention, and unincumbered personal liberty, in line with the bounds of the constitution.. was marginalized and mocked, even black listed as a candidate half the time. no.. we got Obama because he is a radical leftist

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Wednesday, July 1, 2009 4:55 PM

ANTIMASON

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
On an individual level I agree that we are capable of good.

Collectively, we are incapable of it though. The world has yet to divise a power structure that can maintain benevolent intentions and isn't bastardized to serve the wants of a few As long as human beings run it and are part of society, it will always fail to be Utopia.

not in this age anyways my friend. sadly, itll likely culminate in a system entirely antithetical to a percieved utopia(although, itll be suggested as such). whether people will recognize it in time though, we'll have to see. but given the amount of Obama maniacs and socialist apologists out there.. its not likely to happen

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Thursday, July 2, 2009 2:39 AM

KWICKO

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oh come on HK, what about Ron Paul?

You must've missed that part where HK said "serious"...

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Thursday, July 2, 2009 3:59 AM