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Originally posted by rue:
Yeah, after all, things had been going hunky-dory for all those years but then all of the SUDDEN !, like WOW ! the parents just got really bad, all over the country ! They all musta' talked or somethin' ...

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Originally posted by rue:
Fingers broken ? Know how to be a stupid troll and STILL don't know how to google ?

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Originally posted by rue:
Or you could go to The Guardian (UK):

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/20/bush-teen-pregnancy-cdc-re
port

It's not hard to find - if you look.

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Originally posted by AgentRouka:
One thing I enjoyed about growing up in Germany was that teen magazines cover sex really very well.

I learned a LOT as a 12-year-old, by reading a steady litany of "Aids - avoid it, use condoms" or reading question/answer collumns like "How should I prepare for my first time with my boyfriend?", "When we have sex, I don't enjoy it, what should I do?", "I can't talk to my parents, where can I get birth control".

The answers: condoms condoms condoms, lube, TALK TO each other and your doctors.

Overall, kids here are pretty well educated about safe sex.


Do American teen magazines deal with this sort of thing?

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Originally posted by Rue:
"Yeah, after all, things had been going hunky-dory for all those years but then all of the SUDDEN !, like WOW ! the parents just got really bad, all over the country ! They all musta' talked or somethin' ..."

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Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:

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Originally posted by Rue:
"Yeah, after all, things had been going hunky-dory for all those years but then all of the SUDDEN !, like WOW ! the parents just got really bad, all over the country ! They all musta' talked or somethin' ..."

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That was my whole point to begin with. I'm guessing your aim was to somwhow show that teen pregnancies and std's were less under Clinton then they were under Bush. I say why let the government decide what is the best way to go about sex education.

I also think this article is somewhat lacking in regards to corollary evidence. Are the number of teen pregnancies more as a whole or as a percentage of teens in general? Are more teens getting pregnant / std's or are there just more teens?

Does it naturally follow that pregnancies / std's are up because of Bush's policy? Does it have anything to do with the fact that society as a whole is becoming more sexualized? Do you think Clinton knew what sexting was? Were most kids able to download porn to their i-phones during the Clinton years?

How about the non-stop sexual messages and innuendos that constantly bombard us over the airwaves? Have those increased or decreased since Clinton held the big chair?

Heck, even your linked article comes to no definitive conclusions.

Although the CDC does not attribute a cause, groups that support comprehensive sex education have seized on the report as evidence of the failure of religiously-driven policies that shy away from teaching about contraception in favour of emphasising avoiding sexual contact.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/20/bush-teen-pregnancy-cdc-re
port

I thought those on the left wanted government to stay out of their bedrooms. Do you want them in your kid's?

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Originally posted by rue:
"Whoa! Hold the phone!

Not too long ago, Rue, you told me that government sites couldn't be completely trusted due to Bush's meddling in the information.

But now you are quoting a source that used a government site (the CDC) for their information? Why didn't Bush attempt to cover that information up if he was so down-right sneaky and evil?"

DUDE - have you NOTICED there is a new face in the WH ? Or did that escape your little mind ?

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Originally posted by rue:
"Whoa! Hold the phone!

Not too long ago, Rue, you told me that government sites couldn't be completely trusted due to Bush's meddling in the information.

But now you are quoting a source that used a government site (the CDC) for their information? Why didn't Bush attempt to cover that information up if he was so down-right sneaky and evil?"

DUDE - have you NOTICED there is a new face in the WH ? Or did that escape your little mind ?

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Originally posted by rue:
"The responsibility of sex ed lies squarely on the shoulders of the parents. So, the parents failed ..."

And where children USED to get helpful information in school, DUE TO BUSH THAT ALL STOPPED. And HOW did it stop ? BUSH REFUSED TO PROVIDE FEDERAL EDUCATION FUNDS FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN ABSTINENCE ONLY SEX ED.

Tell me, does it take a lot of effort to be such a big idiot ? Or does it come naturally to you ?

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Originally posted by rue:
"... the statistics I used ..."

You did ? Where ? You cited NO statistics. Are you making shit up again ? Or lying, like ususal ?

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
I think the argument being made there, Rue, is how could the CDC have gathered data if the efforts to do so were being repressed?

The answer is that they STILL gather the data and even keep it on file, but the REPORTS issued to the public/congress are editted and censored heavily, often to promote the OPPOSITE political stance that the numbers would normally suggest.

At the EPA, for example, there's a union of scientists, and they RARELY see eye-to-eye with their administrative supervisors. They protect the information, and in more favourable political climates, they then release their findings as they originally wanted them to be released.

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Originally posted by rue:
"So, Government should be responsible for each and every decision we make as parents. Is that what you're saying. That PARENTS really have no input into what or how or when their children should be taught something so delicate as sex education?

Hmmmmmm . . ."

And yet once again, you fail to read simple English with any comprehension. Maybe if you go back, and read rreeaaalllyy, r-r-e-e-e-a-a-a-a-l-l-l-l-y-y-y-y-y sloooooooowly, you might get it this time.



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Originally posted by Kwicko:
So while neither of you see a correlation between Bush-era abstinence-only "education" and the rise of teen pregnancy and STDs (I wonder if Bristol Palin sees a correlation?), you DO see a correlation between the media and such statistics.

I take it neither of you ever listened to Judas Priest; if you had, you'd have no doubt killed yourself by now! (Look up the lawsuit if you don't get that joke)

What you're arguing is that kids couldn't be susceptible to the kinds of things they're taught in school (i.e., sex education in health class). But then you also want to argue that we must stop teaching evolution, because kids are far too susceptible to what they're taught in school.

Curious, that.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

If it wasn't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college...

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Originally posted by rue:
"... our culture that keeps pushing these ideas on the youth of today ..."

And was it different 4 years ago ? 5 ? CLEARLY you mean to say that there was SUCH a radical cultural shift that suddenly, without anyone noticing it happening ! - it drove HIV rate to DOUBLE in 4 years ! If THAT is what you are thinking, CLEARLY you are an idiot.

"... or the responsibilities of the parents."

And CLEARLY you don't know how to read. Where did I post that whne parents did't do the job it USED to be done by the schools until your 'hero' dubya cut funding for that little bit of education. Did you manage to read trhat ? Spell it out if you have to.




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Originally posted by RIPWash:


So, Government should be responsible for each and every decision we make as parents. Is that what you're saying. That PARENTS really have no input into what or how or when their children should be taught something so delicate as sex education?

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Originally posted by Storymark:

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Originally posted by RIPWash:


So, Government should be responsible for each and every decision we make as parents. Is that what you're saying. That PARENTS really have no input into what or how or when their children should be taught something so delicate as sex education?

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Straw man alert! Whoop whoop!


"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Originally posted by rue:
If YOUR baseline only goes back 5 years then of course you see a small ripple as a BIG mountain. BIG picture - 1978 - Pretty Baby. 1970's - Rolling Stones. Rap music - 1970's and on even to today. If you were interested (which I guarantee you are not, b/c your mind is made up and you WILL stick with your pathetic little notions) you could find just as bad, just as much, over the last 30 years. Deal with it. Sex sells, and we live in a profit-above-all culture.

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You're friggin' kidding me --- right ? Did you NOT get the idea that many parents DON'T exercise their responsibilities ? Did you NOT get that from any of my posts ? Is that NOT a way of addressing the role of the parents, even if it is to describe how they FAIL at that role ?

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I refuse to be civil to someone who is making a POINT of being an idiot.

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Originally posted by RIPWash:

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Originally posted by AgentRouka:

Do American teen magazines deal with this sort of thing?

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Sadly, no. They talk mostly about how hot Zac Ephron is, what the Jonas Brothers had for lunch or how Miley Cyrus dumped her latest boyfriend.

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But yeah. To blame this on Bush is just ridiculous. The responsibility of sex ed lies squarely on the shoulders of the parents.

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Originally posted by rue:
Now, don't go away mad. Just go away.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
So while neither of you see a correlation between Bush-era abstinence-only "education" and the rise of teen pregnancy and STDs (I wonder if Bristol Palin sees a correlation?), you DO see a correlation between the media and such statistics.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
What you're arguing is that kids couldn't be susceptible to the kinds of things they're taught in school (i.e., sex education in health class). But then you also want to argue that we must stop teaching evolution, because kids are far too susceptible to what they're taught in school.

Curious, that.

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I don't understand parents who want to limit their children's knowledge on an issue that could cause them harm. I think that's bad parenting, if not outright negligence. It can be almost criminal in cases, especially if it results in fights over any resulting pregnancies, whether the teenage mother must keep her baby, or whether she's forced to abort it.

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I believe I mentioned Clinton. More like 9 years or so.

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