not PN-- Mass. cops arrest ( black) Harvard professor in his own house by NewOldBrownCoat

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Wulfie, I don't know what news accounts YOU read, but the ones I saw said that he DID show them his ID, he DID tell them he lived there - which matched what his ID said was his address, and THEN he went ballistic on the cops, as would I if it were me in that situation.

Of course, I likely wouldn't be in that situation, because I'm white, and the cops would look at my ID and leave me alone, since they'd of course believe me...

And since when do you consider standing up for your rights "going all ghetto"? I thought you were a fan of standing up for one's rights! I guess that view changes when it's black folk doing it, eh?

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

If it wasn't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college...

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 7:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
And since when do you consider standing up for your rights "going all ghetto"? I thought you were a fan of standing up for one's rights! I guess that view changes when it's black folk doing it, eh?

I'm a fan of not mentioning the Officer's Mother.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 7:23 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Whoah, Kwick.

From the reports I read... this guy refused to come out, and when he did he refused to show his ID. He then berated the cops, and then told them to arrest him.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090720/ap_on_re_us/us_harvard_scholar_dis
orderly

Got no problem with ANYONE standing up for their rights.

But thats not what this guy did. He wanted to make himself famous...

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 7:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:

(How much do you want to bet that his job was...oh, say...an Action in the Affirmative?)

found this in that story linked above.

"Gates joined the Harvard faculty in 1991 and holds one of 20 prestigious "university professors" positions at the school. He also was host of "African American Lives," a PBS show about the family histories of prominent U.S. blacks, and was named by Time magazine as one of the 25 most influential Americans in 1997."

Also, the story says a lot about " the neighbors." They don't even recognize one of their own neighbors. Like, " Hey, The Professor is trying to knock his door open. Wonder if there's something wrong with it? Wonder if he needs my help some way?"
No, just, " oh my God , there are BLACK MEN ( And ya wanta bet that's not what they called them? ) busting open somebody's door over there. Better call the cops."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 7:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

And since when do you consider standing up for your rights "going all ghetto"? I thought you were a fan of standing up for one's rights! I guess that view changes when it's black folk doing it, eh?

Seems like the only appropriate response for a black man is, " Yassur, Massa PO-LICE, I stan' up for y'all, turn 'round an' drop ma pants so y'all can shove yo' night stick right up my black booty, jest please don' shoot me, 'cuz I'se a GOOD NIGGA."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 7:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
And since when do you consider standing up for your rights "going all ghetto"? I thought you were a fan of standing up for one's rights! I guess that view changes when it's black folk doing it, eh?

I'm a fan of not mentioning the Officer's Mother.

Then why did you bring her up? Nothing I've seen ANYWHERE had said anything about anyone "mentioning the officer's mother".

And Wulfie?

I don't think the guy's trying to get famous - he's one of the top scholars in the nation on the subject of African-American studies. He heads up the school in such studies and racial relations at Harvard, so I *think* he's pretty damned famous within his community.

According to the coverage I've seen and read, an officer came to the door and asked him to come outside. He refused and asked for the officer's name and badge number - all things which he is well within his rights to do since he lives there. In fact, leaving his house and going outside to talk to the officer would be the WRONG thing to do, since you now have lost your ability to demand that the cop produce either a warrant or show reasonable cause for making such a demand.

Sorry, but you come to my house without anything better than "someone said...", and I'm not coming out, and you're not coming in.

I note for the record that the police department has called the incident "regrettable and unfortunate", and has apologized to Gates, according to some sources. I have to ask, when was the last time you saw the police department ANYWHERE take such action when they were completely in the right?

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

If it wasn't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college...

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 7:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

And since when do you consider standing up for your rights "going all ghetto"? I thought you were a fan of standing up for one's rights! I guess that view changes when it's black folk doing it, eh?

Seems like the only appropriate response for a black man is, " Yassur, Massa PO-LICE, I stan' up for y'all, turn 'round an' drop ma pants so y'all can shove yo' night stick right up my black booty, jest please don' shoot me, 'cuz I'se a GOOD NIGGA."

Sadly, that's about the truth of it.

And I know Wulfie SAYS he's not a racist, but note that his first instinct when hearing that a black man actually had a job was to say it must be an affirmative action job.

THAT says an awful lot about the state of race relations in this country, sadly.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 7:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

I note for the record that the police department has called the incident "regrettable and unfortunate", and has apologized to Gates, according to some sources. I have to ask, when was the last time you saw the police department ANYWHERE take such action when they were completely in the right?

Several sources indicate that charges have been dropped, the local pols and DA's office are apologizing, the ACLU is investigating, and I saw a reference to the fact that, YES!, AL SHARPTON!! is coming to town. Betcha there's gonna be some job vacancies in the Cambridge PD real soon, and as quick as the lawsuits get filed, a big, but secret, financial settlement.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 8:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
And since when do you consider standing up for your rights "going all ghetto"? I thought you were a fan of standing up for one's rights! I guess that view changes when it's black folk doing it, eh?

I'm a fan of not mentioning the Officer's Mother.

Then why did you bring her up? Nothing I've seen ANYWHERE had said anything about anyone "mentioning the officer's mother".

The report I saw stated that the Officer asked Gates to step out of his house. Gates replied with something along the lines of 'I'll step outside to see your Mother'.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 8:11 AM

Tis a funny thing about Sharpton.

Sure, he's a grandstanding, race-baiting, obnoxious jerk - I'll be the first in line to admit it...

But the man has cred with me, and got it the ONLY way you can - by standing and delivering.

That said I pointed out to him rather personally last month the stupidity of standing up for only one race, culture, creed, religion, sex, etc - cause all that's doin is stepping on one faction to elevate another and adds to the divisiveness, if yer gonna fight for human rights, fight for HUMAN rights, across the board, to do any less isn't helping the situation.

His response was something on the order of "actually I know that, but I like kickin whitey in the chops too much you old hillbilly!"

That said, if the threat of having Sharpton all up in their ass is a discouragement to police roughing up black folk, I would say that's a positive thing despite it's flaws.

Guy's a jackass, but I don't rank him as evil.

-F

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 8:13 AM

Quote:
The report I saw stated that the Officer asked Gates to step out of his house. Gates replied with something along the lines of 'I'll step outside to see your Mother'.

"The only difference between a police report and any other work of fiction is that professional writers have a better editor."
-Ofc Corley, Gennessee County PD.

-F

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 8:18 AM

re: Professor Gates.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/07/22/dyson.police/index.html

" Henry Louis "Skip" Gates Jr. is simply the most powerful and influential black scholar in our nation's history.

He received a doctorate at Cambridge University long before the culture wars became au courant; he was among the first group of figures to receive a MacArthur "Genius Award" Fellowship; he wrote the finest work of literary criticism in a generation with "Signifying Monkey"; he was named by Time magazine as one of the "25 Most Influential Americans"; he has a boatload of honorary degrees; and he has been a ubiquitous media presence and thoughtful interpreter of race and culture for a quarter-century."

from Wikipedia:
" Gates has been the recipient of nearly 50 honorary degrees and numerous academic and social action awards. He was named a MacArthur Fellow in 1981 and was listed in Time among its “25 Most Influential Americans” in 1997. On October 23, 2006, Gates was appointed the Alphonse Fletcher Jr. University Professor at Harvard University. In January 2008, he co-founded The Root, a website dedicated to African-American perspectives published by The Washington Post Company. Gates currently chairs the Fletcher Foundation, and is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. He is on the boards of many notable institutions including the New York Public Library, Jazz at Lincoln Center, the Aspen Institute, the Brookings Institution, the Studio Museum of Harlem, the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, HEAF (the Harlem Educational Activities Fund), and the Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences, located in Stanford, California.[2]

In 2002 the National Endowment for the Humanities selected Gates for the Jefferson Lecture, the U.S. federal government's highest honor for achievement in the humanities.[13] Gates' lecture was entitled "Mister Jefferson and the Trials of Phillis Wheatley"[14] and was the basis for his book The Trials of Phillis Wheatley.[15]

In 2006, Gates was inducted into the Sons of the American Revolution after he traced his lineage back to John Redman, a Free Negro who fought in the Revolutionary War.[16]"

Obviously some kind of " shiftless ne'er-do-well", or at least a "multiple-count Affirmative Action hire." Probably one of those " Ivory Tower intellectual elitists," too. Not to mention , " uppity"...

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 8:19 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

He tried to open the front door but the door was jammed shut, so he walked to the back door of his house and used his key, which opened the door, and he went inside his own home.

When cops arrived he had no duty to open the door nor speak to them nor come out.

Cops went psycho and he yelled at them about his constitutional rights.

Ironically the Prof just returned from speaking in Commie china. I'm of the opinion he deserved what he got from the US Police State, as punishment for going to Commie china to help them overthrow USA for the NWO.

Rule 1: Never speak to police without a hidden audio recorder!

Rule 2: Never speak to police!

Rule 3: Never open your door for police!

Rule 4: STFU and hide in your own castle, don't let them see you! But if you do make voluntary contact, you must speak your name and address, or hand it to them in your own handwriting, no ID required.

Dumb professor!

"Race" has nothing to do with it, cops do this to everybody. When cops are out of line yellign illegal orders, every person has the 1st amendment right to tell a cop "FU" to his face, using any and all profanities, according to US Supreme Court. Just dont cuss a judge in court!

By dismissing all charges immediately, prof can easily sue and win for false arrest and false imprisonment, since statute of limitations is 1 year from date of arrest plus 3 days to arraignment. That's why prosecutors almost never dismiss against innocent people, since that opens the door for suing police.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 10:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Quote:
The report I saw stated that the Officer asked Gates to step out of his house. Gates replied with something along the lines of 'I'll step outside to see your Mother'.

"The only difference between a police report and any other work of fiction is that professional writers have a better editor."
-Ofc Corley, Gennessee County PD.

All police baaaad, all citizens gooood. All police lie, all citizens tell the truth. Repeat mantra as necessary.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 11:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:

All police baaaad, all citizens gooood. All police lie, all citizens tell the truth. Repeat mantra as necessary.

Which is apparently quite different from YOUR personal mantra:

"All black people baaaaad, all police gooood. All black people steal and lie, all police tell the truth."

Repeat as necessary.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

If it wasn't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college...

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 12:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:

All police baaaad, all citizens gooood. All police lie, all citizens tell the truth. Repeat mantra as necessary.

Which is apparently quite different from YOUR personal mantra:

"All black people baaaaad, all police gooood. All black people steal and lie, all police tell the truth."

Repeat as necessary.

You are about as dense as they come, aren't you?
Where you got that I am some sort of racist from my posts in this thread is way beyond me.

Do you think Police never wrongfully arrest white people? How about Mexicans or Asians? Have you ever seen a black police officer? Are they all racists as well?

How many calls do police respond to every day in every city? How many mistakes are made? What percentage of calls responded to go bad? They are human like you (perhaps) and me. All humans make mistakes, it's a fact of life.

I've discussed this very thing with Frem before. Do a few rotten apples spoil the bunch? Why take away from the good work done by police and paint them all as crooks and liars?
Are all surgeons bad if one patient dies on one surgeons operating table? Are all warehouse workers incompetant if one guy messes up one order?

One can question the above linked story and the typical police bad posts that followed without being a racist or authoritarian oneself.

And in closing, I don't expect an apology because I do not think you are a big enough man to give me one. I do remain hopeful though.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 12:40 PM

Quote:

I've discussed this very thing with Frem before. Do a few rotten apples spoil the bunch? Why take away from the good work done by police and paint them all as crooks and liars?
Are all surgeons bad if one patient dies on one surgeons [sic] operating table? Are all warehouse workers incompetant [sic] if one guy messes up one order?

If one Muslim hijacks a plane, does that make them ALL terrorists?

Quote:

And in closing, I don't expect an apology... I do remain hopeful though.

Well, keep on chasing that dream! Let me know how that works out for ya.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

If it wasn't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college...

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 1:39 PM

Did a "few rotten apples" make the SS bad guys, since they were only following the orders of their lawful elected government in the hopes of keeping order ?

Fuck that, they were soldiers of evil no matter their personal morality because of the end result of the cause they served - so too are police, every bit the "standing army" enforcing the 'kings law' that our founders warned us of.

Soldiers of Evil
http://www.freedomradio.us/Joomla/index.php/articles-by-brent-johnson/
1668-soldiers-of-evil

ARE COPS CONSTITUTIONAL?
http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/cops.htm

I refer you specifically to section 722 of the latter.

It isn't a "few bad apples" it's a culture of universal corruption serving a vile purpose and has been ever since the peace officer invested with the safety and protection of the community became the police officer assigned to law enforcement.

Never for a moment forget, when discussing this with me, that site three hired us in part to protect them FROM the goddamn local police.

Keep that *firmly* in mind when you try to tell me they're the good guys.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 2:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:

Where you got that I am some sort of racist from my posts in this thread is way beyond me.

No, you are not a racist. You are a purplebelly. There IS a difference.

The idea that force is the way to solve all verbal disputes is authoritarian. The idea that police should have the power they have to harass a man at his own home for (allegedly) insulting their Mom is totalitarian. That non-violent, non-resisting alleged offenders can be handcuffed in the first place is medieval.

BDM, I am placing a gag order on you now- do not respond, or you will be legally silenced.

The laughing Chrisisall

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 2:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
If one Muslim hijacks a plane, does that make them ALL terrorists?

Of course not.
Does one guy questioning the status quo of this thread make him an evil 'neo-con' in your books? Don't be throwin' around your own sweeping generalizations thinking your shit don't stink.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
And in closing, I don't expect an apology... I do remain hopeful though.

Well, keep on chasing that dream! Let me know how that works out for ya.

Wow, thanks for not proving me wrong.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 2:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
The idea that force is the way to solve all verbal disputes is authoritarian. The idea that police should have the power they have to harass a man at his own home for (allegedly) refusing to comply with their reasonable request is anarchistic.

There, changed that for you. Who knows, unless you were there, my scenario could be just as true as yours.

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
That non-violent, non-resisting alleged offenders can be handcuffed in the first place is medieval.

What constitutes resisting in your world?
We have empowered the police to do the job they do on our behalf. If you were pulled over by an officer and you refused to get out of your car, would that be considered resisting?

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
BDM, I am placing a gag order on you now- do not respond, or you will be legally silenced.

How very un-authoritarian of you Mr. KIA.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 2:46 PM

Quote:

What constitutes resisting in your world?
We have empowered the police to do the job they do on our behalf. If you were pulled over by an officer and you refused to get out of your car, would that be considered resisting?

What constitutes "resisting" in YOUR world?

If a cop comes to YOUR house, orders YOU out of YOUR house, demands that YOU show YOUR identification, refuses to identify himself by either name or badge number, do you call THAT "resisting"?

According to the United States Constitution's Fourth Amendment,

Quote:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

This was a man in his own home. Can you please point me to the cop's valid warrant?

Last time I checked with the Supreme Court, asking for name and badge number wasn't classified as "resisting". Neither was asking such troubling questions of the police as "Why? Because I'm a black man in America?"

Is that what YOU call "resisting"?

Heck, I guess the cop should've just shot him, eh?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 3:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
What constitutes "resisting" in YOUR world?

If a cop comes to YOUR house, orders YOU out of YOUR house, demands that YOU show YOUR identification, refuses to identify himself by either name or badge number, do you call THAT "resisting"?

Why not comply, show him the I.D. and send him on his way?
Is everyone supposed to know who Gates is? Is the officer supposed to just take him at his word? Shouldn't the officer fully investigate the break and enter call?
Besides, doesn't the linked article state quite clearly that the officer identified himself and his purpose there? Why are you so quick to take Gates' word over the Officer's?

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
According to the United States Constitution's Fourth Amendment,

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

What does unreasonable mean in your world?

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
This was a man in his own home. Can you please point me to the cop's valid warrant?

Did the Officer enter the house? Do Officers need a warrant to ask for someone's I.D.?

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Last time I checked with the Supreme Court, asking for name and badge number wasn't classified as "resisting". Neither was asking such troubling questions of the police as "Why? Because I'm a black man in America?"

So it was Gates who brought up race first, funny that. Do you think it is wise to be flippant in that situation? Is that a black officer I saw in the picture accompanying the article? Too many questions and not enough answers.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Heck, I guess the cop should've just shot him, eh?

Such a drama queen.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 4:16 PM

Quote:

What does unreasonable mean in your world?

What does "[t]he right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects" mean in YOUR world?

Quote:
Why not comply, show him the I.D. and send him on his way?

Why couldn't the cop comply, give the homeowner his name and badge number, and accept that he lived there and WASN'T a burglar, and just go on his way?

Quote:

Did the Officer enter the house? Do Officers need a warrant to ask for someone's I.D.?

Did the officer enter the house? I don't know; do you? Does he need a warrant to ask for someone's I.D.? He does if they're in their house.

Quote:
Why are you so quick to take Gates' word over the Officer's?

Why are YOU so quick to take the officer's word over Gates's? Is it because Gates is black?

Quote:
Do you think it is wise to be flippant in that situation?

I think it's somewhat telling that you find a black man questioning authority to be "flippant". I'm surprised you haven't called him "uppity" yet. Someone shows up at MY house without a warrant or a valid reason and starts making demands that I come outside and prove who I am and where I live, I'm going to be a lot more than "flippant" with him. Funny that you don't think we have the right to ask questions of the police, even though THEY are supposed to work for US.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 4:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Why are YOU so quick to take the officer's word over Gates's? Is it because Gates is black?

I see you are still strawmanning my position. Either you have run out of other arguments or that is your M.O.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
I think it's somewhat telling that you find a black man questioning authority to be "flippant". I'm surprised you haven't called him "uppity" yet.

I was saying some of the same things regarding the guy that got tasered at the University of Florida. What color was his skin again?

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Someone shows up at MY house without a warrant or a valid reason and starts making demands that I come outside and prove who I am and where I live, I'm going to be a lot more than "flippant" with him.

I wonder if you would make the news. My guess is probably not. Now tell me, is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Funny that you don't think we have the right to ask questions of the police, even though THEY are supposed to work for US.

Again with the strawman. I do think that is the only method of debate you a fluent in.
I never said he didn't have the right to ask questions. I am simply trying to get across that in the heat of the moment, do as you are asked to avoid situations like these.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 5:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
I am simply trying to get across that in the heat of the moment

See, "Heat of the moment" is not something TRAINED POLICE officers should be under the influence of. When confronted by five muggers trying to relieve me of my bicycle, I didn't get MAD, I acted in an emotionless, calculating way, and drove the idiots off with my simple directness. Is it asking too much for a police force to be as good as an unarmed citizen?

The laughing Chrisisall

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 5:12 PM

Quote:
I do think that is the only method of debate you a fluent in.

Well, it DOES seem that only one of us is fluent...

Quote:
I am simply trying to get across that in the heat of the moment, do as you are asked to avoid situations like these.

Thing is, there was no need for there to BE a "heat of the moment", if the cop had just calmed himself the fuck down and realized that he was hassling the fucking HOMEOWNER!

And what you REALLY mean is, when a cop TELLS you to do something, DO AS YOU'RE TOLD and DON'T TALK BACK.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 5:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Thing is, there was no need for there to BE a "heat of the moment", if the cop had just calmed himself the fuck down and realized that he was hassling the fucking HOMEOWNER!

I'm sure you meant to say that if both the 'cop' and Gates had just calmed down, none of this would have happened.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
And what you REALLY mean is, when a cop TELLS you to do something, DO AS YOU'RE TOLD and DON'T TALK BACK.

Seems like a pretty sure way of not geting arrested or even shot.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 5:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
See, "Heat of the moment" is not something TRAINED POLICE officers should be under the influence of. When confronted by five muggers trying to relieve me of my bicycle, I didn't get MAD, I acted in an emotionless, calculating way, and drove the idiots off with my simple directness. Is it asking too much for a police force to be as good as an unarmed citizen?

Your first mistake is to think that all people should think and act like you.
Your second mistake is to equate the actions of one or two officers with the whole force.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 5:44 PM

Quote:

I'm sure you meant to say that if both the 'cop' and Gates had just calmed down, none of this would have happened.

I'm sure I didn't mean that at all, child, or I would have typed that. The cop was in the wrong here, and that's pretty evident in the reactions and words of the police and the city government. They badly overstepped their bounds and over-reached their authority, and they got caught out doing it. Remember, the cop is supposed to be trained in how to de-escalate the situation. Instead, he decided to view it as a dick-measuring contest and escalated the situation instead.

Your mistake is that you keep wanting to give the cops the authority, and then you don't expect them to have to live up to it. Sorry, but when you take the "higher standard", you have to rise to it. If you want my respect and want me to take your word for anything, you need to earn it. That goes for cops, too. I don't automatically assume that they're looking out for my best interests, any more than you assume that the federal government is always looking out for yours.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 6:00 PM

Quote:
We have empowered the police to do the job they do on our behalf.

What's this "we" shit, dude ?

And the idea that we should just bend knee and capitulate when the lords in blue are clearly in the wrong is idiot feudalism of the very same stripe that has landed us in a position where these badge bearing assholes are naught more than a mafia with official sanction to begin with.

Fucked if I think FEEDING the problem is a good idea.

-Frem

PS - Workin with what little Mikey left me here, cause he's been hoggin ALL the asswhup to hisself tonite, it seems.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 6:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
What's this "we" shit, dude ?

Society.

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
And the idea that we should just bend knee and capitulate when the lords in blue are clearly in the wrong is idiot feudalism of the very same stripe that has landed us in a position where these badge bearing assholes are naught more than a mafia with official sanction to begin with.

Yes, Frem, that has been my whole point all along, sigh. Just bend over and take it from the 'cops'.

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
PS - Workin with what little Mikey left me here, cause he's been hoggin ALL the asswhup to hisself tonite, it seems.

Which is why you felt the need to draw attention to it, I'm sure.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 6:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
The cop was in the wrong here, and that's pretty evident in the reactions and words of the police and the city government. They badly overstepped their bounds and over-reached their authority, and they got caught out doing it. Remember, the cop is supposed to be trained in how to de-escalate the situation. Instead, he decided to view it as a dick-measuring contest and escalated the situation instead.

You are right. The Officer, as it turned out, was in the wrong.

Now imagine this. Say the Officer had asked Gates to step out on his porch and Gates did. Say the officer explained that he was responding to a burglary call at this residence. Say then Gates informed the Officer that it was indeed his place of residence. Say the Officer, who did not know Gates, than asked for proof of residence. Say Gates then provided this requested proof. Say the Officer then apologized for the mix up and none of us are the wiser. What is so un-constitutional or overly onerous about that?

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Your mistake is that you keep wanting to give the cops the authority, and then you don't expect them to have to live up to it.

Your mistake is to assign your made up opinions to me.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Sorry, but when you take the "higher standard", you have to rise to it. If you want my respect and want me to take your word for anything, you need to earn it. That goes for cops, too. I don't automatically assume that they're looking out for my best interests, any more than you assume that the federal government is always looking out for yours.

Since when was it guilty until proven innocent? And what does the federal government have to do with this discussion?

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, July 23, 2009 5:41 AM

BDN-

You presume that I am part of this society and/or a supporter of it.

I'm not.
In fact I happen to be in constant opposition to it, considering it an assembly line factory for sociopathy, reprehensible from a moral and ethical standpoint, and the primary roadblock to our continued social, moral, and emotional development, I've said as much for as long as anyone here has known.

As for bending knee - like it or not, to automatically defer to some agent of the state when they are clearly in the wrong is an act that does give off the aroma of feudalism, just because I choose to phrase it in an obnoxious way makes it no less true.

And since you were imho, floating a bad concept based on an idea that is not only demonstrably false, but in fact anti-democratic, hell yes I got some level of amusement from watching someone bust your chops about it.

Remember I happen to be a staunch defender of the Peelian Principles of Policing, in which the officer is considered no different than any other member of society and given no more credence or deference than any other member of the public.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_Principles

In short, if you wouldn't take that crap from a fellow citizen, you shouldn't take it from a cop, neither - and you really should hold them to a HIGHER standard given they have, or should have, proper training.

I also note that in your latter post you have mistakenly attributed two of mikeys statements to me, and if I was half the asshole you take me for I'd be running that ball for the end zone, now wouldn't I ?

But it's an honest mistake, and gets the benefit of the doubt - not the least of which because mikey and myself do make similar arguments at times.
(and indeed, you fixed it in between me writing this and posting it, see ?

)

And as a final note, one of the reasons I give the word of police less credibility than a citizens, is because of incidents like this.

NEVER Believe Uncorroborated Police Testimony
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/030636.html

The isolated incident excuse falls flat in light of the evidence, and twenty some years of empirical assessment reveals a culture of corruption, which happens to be irredeemable due to it's very nature being abusive.

Not sure if you were around when I pointed out exactly WHAT was going to happen if they gave these goons in blue Tasers - but like much else, that went chapter and verse just like I called it, because regardless of the moral quality of each individual officer, as a collective, I see through the propaganda and understand what they truly are.

A mafia with perceived legitimacy and official support.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, July 23, 2009 12:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:

Your first mistake is to think that all people should think and act like you.

Okay. Gloves off. You ARE a stupid asshole, aren't you?
If I choose to behave in the best possible way to achieve a desired result, that's not "thinking like me", buttwipe.
I was just asking if paid professionals could do the same. If you want to tag correct, desirable or LEGALLY DEFINED police procedure with a particular mindset, go ahead.
Douchebag.

Not that I'm pissed or anything...

The laughing Chrisisall

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, July 23, 2009 12:56 PM

Quote:
BDN wrote:

Now imagine this. Say the Officer had asked Gates to step out on his porch and Gates did. Say the officer explained that he was responding to a burglary call at this residence. Say then Gates informed the Officer that it was indeed his place of residence. Say the Officer, who did not know Gates, than asked for proof of residence. Say Gates then provided this requested proof. Say the Officer then apologized for the mix up and none of us are the wiser. What is so un-constitutional or overly onerous about that?

Just imagine. If it had gone that way, we'd likely never have heard a word about it.

The more I hear about this story, the more it sounds like the cop isn't so much a racist, as just an ASSHOLE. His gripe wasn't that Gates is black, but rather that Gates had the temerity to talk back to HIM, a POLICE OFFICER, as if Gates thought he was his equal or something, or as if Gates thought he had some rights, being in his own home and all. And I've seen more than a few cops with that same attitude, and I've gone to jail for pointing out to them that "Because I said so!" is not a valid constitutional reason. And I've beaten them in court. One of 'em was even drummed off the force when a group of us showed a pattern of abuse and harassment. He was later arrested for beating his wife, which came as no real surprise to anyone, because he really was that much of an asshole.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, July 23, 2009 12:58 PM

Quote:

I also note that in your latter post you have mistakenly attributed two of mikeys statements to me, and if I was half the asshole you take me for I'd be running that ball for the end zone, now wouldn't I ?

But it's an honest mistake, and gets the benefit of the doubt - not the least of which because mikey and myself do make similar arguments at times.

Thanks, Frem - coming from you, I'll take that as a high compliment indeed!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, July 23, 2009 1:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Okay. Gloves off. You ARE a stupid asshole, aren't you?

Perhaps your point didn't come across as clearly as you intended it to. How about perhaps giving me the benefit of doubt before you throw a verbal tantrum.

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
If I choose to behave in the best possible way to achieve a desired result, that's not "thinking like me", buttwipe.

You used a personal story from your past to illustrate that the situation could have been handled differently. Excuse me for assuming that you thought all 'cops' should think and act more like you.

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I was just asking if paid professionals could do the same. If you want to tag correct, desirable or LEGALLY DEFINED police procedure with a particular mindset, go ahead.

So in your eyes, there are no paid professionals who act professionally?

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Douchebag.

Your Momma.

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Not that I'm pissed or anything...

Hope you don't take your anger out on some unsuspecting, innocent third party. That would be quite un-professional.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, July 23, 2009 1:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
The more I hear about this story, the more it sounds like the cop isn't so much a racist, as just an ASSHOLE.

You tried to tag me as the racist earlier. Does that make you the asshole?

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
His gripe wasn't that Gates is black, but rather that Gates had the temerity to talk back to HIM, a POLICE OFFICER, as if Gates thought he was his equal or something, or as if Gates thought he had some rights, being in his own home and all. And I've seen more than a few cops with that same attitude, and I've gone to jail for pointing out to them that "Because I said so!" is not a valid constitutional reason. And I've beaten them in court. One of 'em was even drummed off the force when a group of us showed a pattern of abuse and harassment. He was later arrested for beating his wife, which came as no real surprise to anyone, because he really was that much of an asshole.

I knew a warehouse worker who was a serial abuser asshole. Kwicko, why are you a serial abusing asshole?

The ability of some people to hyperbolize is astonishing to me. One officer wrongfully arrested one black man. Guess that means race relations are horrible in America. If only there was a black president or something.

Now you are shifting gears and arguing that the 'cops' aren't racist so much as mafioso thugs.
You ever have a bad day Kwicko? You ever snapped at someone for no particular reason? Someone ever set you off by simply not listening to you?

Does the officer in question have a history of this kind of thing? Was it just the culmination of two people who had two bad days that happened to intersect at the same time? If police are such racist thugs, why do we not hear about more situations like this?

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, July 23, 2009 2:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
The more I hear about this story, the more it sounds like the cop isn't so much a racist, as just an ASSHOLE.

You tried to tag me as the racist earlier. Does that make you the asshole?

Dolt, I've been telling you for YEARS that I'm an asshole. Did you miss a memo or something? Are you honestly that slow on the uptake?

Quote:

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
His gripe wasn't that Gates is black, but rather that Gates had the temerity to talk back to HIM, a POLICE OFFICER, as if Gates thought he was his equal or something, or as if Gates thought he had some rights, being in his own home and all. And I've seen more than a few cops with that same attitude, and I've gone to jail for pointing out to them that "Because I said so!" is not a valid constitutional reason. And I've beaten them in court. One of 'em was even drummed off the force when a group of us showed a pattern of abuse and harassment. He was later arrested for beating his wife, which came as no real surprise to anyone, because he really was that much of an asshole.

I knew a warehouse worker who was a serial abuser asshole. Kwicko, why are you a serial abusing asshole?

I don't know that I've ever abused serial. I know that I've abused CEREAL before. And if it had enough fiber in it, it also abused ME.

Quote:

The ability of some people to hyperbolize is astonishing to me. One officer wrongfully arrested one black man. Guess that means race relations are horrible in America. If only there was a black president or something.

You're easily astonished, then. Or you're hyperbolizing when you use that word.

Quote:

Now you are shifting gears and arguing that the 'cops' aren't racist so much as mafioso thugs.

Whoa - hyperbolize much? I said THIS cop seems to be not so much a racist, as just an asshole. Where you got the plural "cops" out of that I have no idea. Probably just you being your normal asshole hyperbolic self.

Quote:

You ever have a bad day Kwicko? You ever snapped at someone for no particular reason? Someone ever set you off by simply not listening to you?

You mean before now?

Quote:

Does the officer in question have a history of this kind of thing?

If he didn't before, he does now.

Quote:
Was it just the culmination of two people who had two bad days that happened to intersect at the same time? If police are such racist thugs, why do we not hear about more situations like this?

Maybe because you haven't been paying attention. Or you're slow. Or both.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

If it wasn't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college...

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, July 23, 2009 2:48 PM

I've quite literally had more stimulating conversations with a stump.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, July 23, 2009 3:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
I've quite literally had more stimulating conversations with a stump.

And yet you are quite literally so stupid that you'll continue THIS conversation. Curious.

Of course, I'm not surprised at all that you find conversing with a stump "stimulating".

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, July 23, 2009 3:25 PM

Last word.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, July 23, 2009 3:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:

Perhaps your point didn't come across as clearly as you intended it to. How about perhaps giving me the benefit of doubt before you throw a verbal tantrum.

No.

Quote:

You used a personal story from your past to illustrate that the situation could have been handled differently. Excuse me for assuming that you thought all 'cops' should think and act more like you.

I also think all cops should breathe. Dumass ones that don't... well, they aren't gonna create many problems anyway.

In my story I reacted in the best possible way. If I'd reacted like I'd have WANTED to react, without the benefit of being objective & trained for the situation at hand, I'd have clobbered the creeps, maybe put one's eye out & gone to jail for my trouble. Yeah, thinking like me is a problem, which is why I try not to do it in important situations.

Quote:

So in your eyes, there are no paid professionals who act professionally?

Dorothy, please take that strawman outta here. Thanks.

Quote:

Your Momma.

Honest payback. I can respect that.

Quote:

Hope you don't take your anger out on some unsuspecting, innocent third party. That would be quite un-professional.

YOUR Momma.

The laughing Chrisisall

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, July 23, 2009 4:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Last word.

Drunks are so cute.

The laughing Chrisisall

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, July 23, 2009 5:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Drunks are so cute.

But obsessive compulsives are powerful ugly.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, July 24, 2009 4:22 AM