Pirate News sould have posted this before I did.... by whozit

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I think in this case the White House made a decision that they did not fully appreciate the potential consequences of.

No harm, no foul, just so long as they dismantle the project and avoid making this mistake again in the future.

--Anthony

P.S. Twas neither hitler nor the commies who inspired the laws that protect us from this sort of thing. Twas the actions of our own government right here at home.

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, August 7, 2009 1:15 PM

WHOZIT

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
The "crap" is all those right-wing nut-jobs who shout down town-hall meetings instead of letting others ask questions and have conversations. May as well give those nutters jackboots and armbands, 'cause they think they have the RIGHT to intimidate people. And that's what people DO when they don't have anything of substance to say... if I've learned anyhting from this board, I've learned that.

You're right, we sould send in some "Union Tugs" to kick there asses......opps, you libs already did that, thanks.

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Friday, August 7, 2009 1:25 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

This post in neither about right wing nutjobs nor about union thugs. It's about the White House collecting information about counter-propaganda campaigns.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, August 7, 2009 1:52 PM

www.infowars.com/the-obama-joker-1000-video-contest/

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:
.... but I still love www.piratenews.org

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/07/white-house-collect-fishy-i
nfo-health-reform-illegal-critics-say/

I think "Hitler" started this crap......or was it the "Commies"?

It was Bush.

What? You didn't think Obama was going to hand back that power once the way was cleared for him to use it, did you?

Why do you think so many of us were so vociferously against giving the President that power in the first place?

So NOW you're upset about it?

By the way, I got a copy of that dogshit letter from John Cornyn in my e-mail. I sent him back the same questions. Oddly, he hasn't responded to me. If I were a betting man, though, I'd wager that he's turned my "fishy" e-mail over to one of his "team" to look into and file away, listing me as an "enemy" or "undesirable" in regards to his views and aims.

Any takers on that bet?

Oh, and BDN? Before you even get started, NO, I'm NOT giving Obama a pass on this. I'm pissed at him about it too. But I'm wondering where the rest of you were a few years ago when the way was cleared for this to be done. And hey, like the Cambridge police, they're only doing it for your own protection, right? If you just do as you're told, it will all be over soon, and you'll be fine.

Mike

Sweeping generalizations are always wrong!

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Friday, August 7, 2009 2:09 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Union of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics...

National SOCIALISM...

I think I see a pattern here.

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Friday, August 7, 2009 2:12 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"It was Bush."

Hello,

Go back further in time, Mike.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, August 7, 2009 2:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"It was Bush."

Hello,

Go back further in time, Mike.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

Right you are, Anthony. Bush was just the latest in a long line seeking to expand, rather than limit, the power of the Presidency. And he was also the most successful in recent memory at doing this kind of underhanded crap.

Mike

Sweeping generalizations are always wrong!

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Friday, August 7, 2009 2:49 PM

So, ummm... HOW is this "illegal", exactly?

Does this mean that factcheck.org, snopes.com, and other internet "debunking" sites are now illegal?

I'm curious.

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Friday, August 7, 2009 3:14 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

It's because it's the government.

When governments start collecting information on people who disagree with them, you're only a hop, skip, and jump from a hearing on Unamerican Activities. Or worse.

Probably Obama intends no such thing, but sooner or later you get a Nixon, and then such information may find itself misused. So we don't trust the government to collect information on political enemies, even if they seem to have pure intentions.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, August 7, 2009 3:55 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"When governments start collecting information on people who disagree with them ..."

Hellloooo ... 10% of ALL people having their calls traced ... secret political spying programs at Cheney's request ... people being encouraged to turn in their neighbors ... libraries being required to turn over records of what you take out - without letting you know you're being monitored ... where have you BEEN all these years ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, August 7, 2009 4:28 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello Rue,

Where have I been?

I've been a hop, skip, and jump from a hearing on Unamerican Activities. Or worse.

That was a general statement about when government does these things. And once again, I must stress, these things were not born with Bush. Nor will they die with him.

Obama helped to make sure of that, and his decision to do so was very disappointing to me.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Saturday, August 8, 2009 9:49 AM

I THINK you can get ne of those Obama/JOker t-shirts over at cafepress.com.....count me in for at least three or four.

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Saturday, August 8, 2009 11:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by gripper:
I THINK you can get ne of those Obama/JOker t-shirts over at cafepress.com.....count me in for at least three or four.

There ya go - Obama's economic stimulus plan is working!!!

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Saturday, August 8, 2009 11:48 AM

yep,confirmed and in stock for $22.50 a pop...several different designs are out already...just the thing to balance out the "how's that hope and change working for you?",and "Nobama" stickers on the car.
Now,if and when the country finally come to its senses and tosses out this Chavez wannabe,maybe they can also show the door to McCain,his idiot daughter,Snowe,Collins,Naplitano and Gregg...See?I don't play favorites-socialists or socialist -lite-I despise them all.

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Saturday, August 8, 2009 12:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gripper:
yep,confirmed and in stock for $22.50 a pop...several different designs are out already...just the thing to balance out the "how's that hope and change working for you?",and "Nobama" stickers on the car.
Now,if and when the country finally come to its senses and tosses out this Chavez wannabe,maybe they can also show the door to McCain,his idiot daughter,Snowe,Collins,Naplitano and Gregg...See?I don't play favorites-socialists or socialist -lite-I despise them all.

Then you'd agree that the last eight years were the biggest mistake in recent memory...

Mike

Sweeping generalizations are always wrong!

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Saturday, August 8, 2009 12:39 PM

About 40-45% were...vs.damn close to 100% of the current.Don't get me wrong-I was one of the guys who did NOT pull the lever for the Shrub in the PRIMARY(I was a Keyes guy)...virtually everything I disagree with and dislike both bush Sr. and Jr. over I knew before the general election.
Unfortunately,I believed then and still believe now that we were given a choice between two bad selections in the general election.
Given my beliefs and impulses,I'd vote for Paul/Palin ticket,a Hunter/Tancredo ticket,a Lieberman/Keyes ticket...hell,drag Zell Miller out of retiremant and draft him to get on the ticket with Paul.Just pick SOMEONE with a clue and a moral grounding in the Constitution,who does NOT believe that evil can be reasoned with.
Take Ron Paul- dometically,I think he is great-overseas policy?A little TOO pure a Libertarian.But paitr him up with Hunter ?Or Keyes(not that it would happen,he got tossed under the bus by the RINO's in the party)?
What I saw going into the 2008 election was a country so down on th eoutgoing administration(some fo rgood reasmns,others;not so much) thta they drank deeply from the Personality cult KoolAde....and the hangover is jsut STARTING to get felt.
How many of the civil liberties activists that freaked when the Bush crowd wanted to eavesdrop on phone conversations between americans and known affiliate organizations that front for global jihad even acknowledge that little missive from the WH Commuications director telling Americans to channel their inner Brownshirt and dime out their neighbors RE policy disagreement?Or take PN;When PirateNews is bad,he is very ,very bad...but when he is GOOD,why even a Judai-phobe like him posts things that I agree with(Shalom,PN;I like you despite it all!).
Ya gotta understand this:I loathe statist control freaks and aspiring totalitarians irrespective of whether they have an "R" or a "D" next to their name.I also know from experience that there ARE folks out there in th eworld who WOULD gladly cut your throats and take charge of your kidsfor no other reason then "you are not one of them".So ,YES;I do support the intent (if not all of the planning and execution) of the GWOT.I part company from them in a few areas;trt=ying to do it on the cheap,trying to go too light,trying not to involve or engage the population at large.In many ways the RINO's mirror the worst of the Dems-they try to convince us mere mortals that compiant helplessness is the same thing as safety.

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Saturday, August 8, 2009 2:34 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"Obama helped to make sure of that, and his decision to do so was very disappointing to me."

If it's any consolation - McCain would have been worse, seeing as Cheney would have been running the show behind the scenes - as is his normal practice.

You need to get with the groups who are fighting the legal basis for all of this: the EFF is the best one I can think of right now. Though you may find yourself uncomfortable rubbing elbows with so many damn lib'ruls.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Saturday, August 8, 2009 2:41 PM

Hey,I knew McCamnesty was a bad choice too...MccainFeingold,blcoking acryaul GOOD SC nominees(like Estrada),constantly running off at th emouth RE the so called "gun show loophole".
Choosing between Obama and McCain was (for me ,at least ) like deciding whether or not to get your leg sawed off at the hip ,or belwo the knee.
I kne wthe fix was in when Hunter and Tancredo could not gfet any traction,Huckabee an dKen Doll Romney had their phony little soap opera,and th eonly GOOD thing McCain did(pick Palin for a running mate) had her dodging cheap shots from MCCAIN's campaign staff as much as the MSM/Democrat operatives....Hell,I said it before-she ain't perfect,but she comes a LOT closer to my beliefs and impulses than McCain,Romney or whoever else the MSM tells us would be a good pick.hey,thats show biz......

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Saturday, August 8, 2009 3:13 PM

Quote:
I also know from experience that there ARE folks out there in th eworld who WOULD gladly cut your throats and take charge of your kidsfor no other reason then "you are not one of them".

And in my experience, they are called "Republicans" and "tea-baggers".

Quote:

So ,YES;I do support the intent (if not all of the planning and execution) of the GWOT.

What, exactly, IS the "intent" of the GWOT? To negotiate with terrorists, as we've so often seen done by "real" Americans like Reagan and Bush, all while claiming before the cameras that "we do not negotiate with terrorists"?

Quote:

I part company from them in a few areas;trt=ying to do it on the cheap,trying to go too light,trying not to involve or engage the population at large.

Some 2 TRILLION dollars in, and Iraq is "on the cheap" - I'd hate to see what would have happened had we done it on a money-is-no-object basis!

Quote:

In many ways the RINO's mirror the worst of the Dems-they try to convince us mere mortals that compiant helplessness is the same thing as safety.

In most ways, the RINOs mirror the rest of the Republican party - they try to convince us mere mortals that shooting and bombing everyone we don't agree with is the same thing as "security".

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Saturday, August 8, 2009 3:45 PM

"Intent " of the GWOT SHOULD simply be to kill the sons of bitches...unfortunately we had a freaking flashback to Powell's "stop it ,we are killing too mnay of them" for a while...the surge actually DID work,but things change.
I said then and still say that it is never worng to take out those who would kill you .And,contrary to a lot of what has been said,I DO believe that not all cultures have equal validity-case in point I do not believe that a culture that supports "honor killings " of rape victims or unwilling betrothals to b eone that holds the same validity as one that would defend the victim and put down the "honor killers"...
"Tea-baggers"??Uh no thanks,I like girls..and I do believe that the "Tea Party "movement is valid.
I DO think that more than half of our problems are of our own making-we discourage BOTH dometic oil drilling/refining AND real alternatives to fossil fuel(nukes) and we then are "simply socked" to find out that we are joined at the waist with the House of Saudi.e.folks who use us as an escape clause for the Wahabbist kooks AND a money laundry for the Occidentaal Petroleum types.
Yeah,I am pretty conservative as far as libetarians go...like I said ealrier -why pick leukemia over lung cancer????Thats what deciding between RINO's and Obamunists is.
As far as I am concerned,defending our OWN interests (and I include borders under the term interest) is not a bad thing...neither is killing those who would kill you ,impose either a Statist collective,or Sharia on you-dictaztorship is dictatorship in my book.The answere to "too much government " is not "more of the same".
Personally,I hope that if that WH ratline(RE diming out those us who disagree with policy/agendas)results in some form of awakening in the country-just becaus eyou were angry/disappointed with the Shrub does NOT mean a personality cult phenomemon is a good alternative.

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Saturday, August 8, 2009 4:10 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
If it's any consolation - McCain would have been worse, seeing as Cheney would have been running the show behind the scenes - as is his normal practice.

You need to get with the groups who are fighting the legal basis for all of this: the EFF is the best one I can think of right now. Though you may find yourself uncomfortable rubbing elbows with so many damn lib'ruls.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

Hello Rue,

I'm not opposed to rubbing elbows with liberals. Or conservatives. Or the nutjobs in my preferred political group.

Everyone has something to offer. :-)

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Saturday, August 8, 2009 4:11 PM

Quote:

I said then and still say that it is never worng to take out those who would kill you .

And I note for the record that by your logic, "THEY" aren't wrong to want to kill you, either. After all, if you want to kill them, they're "never worng" to want to kill you for that.

An eye for an eye, until the whole world is blind! Sounds like a wonderful strategy.

The only way this kind of attitude and behavior logically ends is when either they've killed all of "you", or you've killed all of "them". So apparently you have no real problem with genocide, as long as it's people who aren't you who are being killed.

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Saturday, August 8, 2009 4:36 PM

Genocide???I have no problem with any who don't want me dead...Or for that matter;who do not particularly like me.But intent and action??Return the favor,with interest.
Does this mean we should not try to "make friends"??Nope...but it does NOT mean we should accomodate demands/beleifs that will NOT do the same for us...
I am ALL for staying out of overseas entanglements ,where able...I am ALSO for NOT holding back on those who will not return the same courtesy,and can not even retsrain themselves from mudering their own countrymen who lack sufficient religious/ideological fervor.
Hell, look at THIS side of the world-just to our south,Mexico is imploding...an dwhat is the stated policy objective of many in charge here?To restrict AMERICAN firearms rights because Los Zetas are able to buy off or kll off their opposition.Does that mean I hate Mexico,or Mexicans?Nope,especially the one sin my family..but we can not seem to grasp when we should stay out of things(domestic-WOD;i.e end prohibition...OTOH,we seem to lve the idea of mindlessly deploying our troops and THEN telling them they are cops,not soldiers.HUH?WTF?
"WHole world blind"??I doubt it,but when you establish a few ground rules like "don't you EVER do that again!" via a few objet and effective lessons;so be it.We are VERY good at swinging a heavy hammer-don't get me wrong;I do NOT think thta the whole world is a nail...but when you DO reach for the hammer do NOT think it can be adapted to repair micro-circuitry-that is just plain overthinking it.

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Saturday, August 8, 2009 8:53 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Umm, gripper ?

Since Mikey seems to be amusing himself by playin rope a dope with you, lemme put this in crystal clear focus for ya, in case you ain't gettin it.

To some people, particularly me, the ONLY appreciable difference between you, and the Taliban...

Is that you... are over HERE.

*measures out more rope*

-Frem

PS. And would it kill you to make at least some pretense of an effort to use proper english so you don't come off like some bellicose hayseed redneck fool enough to take pride in his own pathetic ignorance ?

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Sunday, August 9, 2009 8:51 AM

Me?Taliban??No,I kinda doubt it.
I can be a ruthless SOB when called upon or pushed,but using kids for cover???Nope...killing people for not agreeing with me?Nope...Beating on women for not agreeing with "whoever Pappy picks? Nope...The list could go on and on.
And if you can NOT see the difference;then I do feel sorry for you.
I STILL don't get how any who think that the answere to "too much gov't" is "more of the same".And I still fail to see how collateral damage(which the US military tries to avoid) is th esaame as deliberately targeting non-combatants.Hey ,I STILL don't get how allowing a dog to bark at someone constitutes torture either;at least when compared to taking amill-file to someone's teeth,or a hammer to their feet...so yeah;you MUST be the sharpest knife in the drawer.

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Sunday, August 9, 2009 9:39 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by gripper:
"Intent " of the GWOT SHOULD simply be to kill the sons of bitches...

somewhere so long ago that I can no longer attribute it, I read a writer who wrote that once you start killing people just because they're sons-of-bitches it's hard to draw the line at where to stop. Today Osama Been-Hydin, tomorrow Teddy Kennedy or Sarah Palin? Next week Al Sharpton and Pat Buchanan? Your local banker or police chief? The opposition candidate for Mayor? A local businessman who deals very sharply on a labor contract or pollutes the local water supply? A local pimp or dealer or a tobacco company exec? Or a VP from BIg Pharma who pushes advertising to make a huge profit from a worthless or even harmful drug?

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Sunday, August 9, 2009 9:48 AM

Uh...did you happen to miss the part where I said you don't hurt people for mere disagreements???Come on,there IS a BIG difference between retaliation for violence and killing because your worldview/religious interpretation was offended.
Case in point-calling me a "teabagger"? Offensive as hell,both for the gutter reference and smearing a LOT of people who rightfully feel that we are all taxed enough already(too much,if you ask me).But did I call him out?Nope-I figure if he meant it as an insult ,then he is a punk.If not,no foul.
OTOH,when you have a person/group that has and continues to perpetrate violence on ANYONE not with the program;well they got to go.
THAT is the "SOB's I refer to when I say "just kill the SOBs".
Don't get me worng-insult me badly enough ;and I will throw with King Kong.But no,I do NOT mix my apples and oranges.

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Sunday, August 9, 2009 5:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gripper:
Me?Taliban??No,I kinda doubt it.

Point is, you DO seem to be acting pretty much like your own right-wing Taliban. You certainly seem to be carrying a huge chip on your shoulder, of the "kill-'em-all-if-they-don't-believe-like-I-do" variety.

Quote:

I can be a ruthless SOB when called upon or pushed,but using kids for cover???Nope...killing people for not agreeing with me?

Well, at least not until after you've labeled them as "terrorists"...

Quote:
Nope...Beating on women for not agreeing with "whoever Pappy picks? Nope...The list could go on and on.
And if you can NOT see the difference;then I do feel sorry for you.

So you don't think there are wife-beaters in this country? Or is it okay as long as they call themselves "christians"?

Quote:
I STILL don't get how any who think that the answere to "too much gov't" is "more of the same".

1) Where have you heard me say "too much gov't"?

2) "More of the same" is the same as "stay the course", isn't it? Now, who was famous for repeating that old canard over and over and over and over and over and over? Dang, I forget the name, who WAS that guy. Used to be President, got off on blowin' shit up, wasn't very bright, but was proud of being not very bright. What WAS that dude's name?

Quote:

And I still fail to see how collateral damage(which the US military tries to avoid) is th esaame as deliberately targeting non-combatants.

Maybe you should ask Blackwater about that. They seem to have rather more fuzzy notions about targeting non-combatants.

Quote:

Hey ,I STILL don't get how allowing a dog to bark at someone constitutes torture either;at least when compared to taking amill-file to someone's teeth,or a hammer to their feet...so yeah;you MUST be the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Well, SOMEBODY must be the sharpest knife in the drawer, and it's a safe bet it's not you. You seem to think the worst thing we did to prisoners was let a dog bark at them. By that rationale, the worst thing the Taliban did to anybody was videotape them! Hey, if you just ignore and leave out the truly barbaric shit, they don't seem any worse than our guys who do the same thing, do they?

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Sunday, August 9, 2009 5:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gripper:
Uh...did you happen to miss the part where I said you don't hurt people for mere disagreements???Come on,there IS a BIG difference between retaliation for violence and killing because your worldview/religious interpretation was offended.

So what was the violence done to us by the Iraqi people?

Quote:

Case in point-calling me a "teabagger"? Offensive as hell,both for the gutter reference and smearing a LOT of people who rightfully feel that we are all taxed enough already(too much,if you ask me).But did I call him out?Nope-I figure if he meant it as an insult ,then he is a punk.If not,no foul.

I meant it in the sense that the "tea-party" people have had their movement and cause completely appropriated by big-money right-wing lobbying groups and conservative special interest groups, who are using those people as their proxies to do their bidding. They're whoring those people out, only they aren't even paying them for it. And the people being used seem only too happy to keep sucking on the nuts of the corporations who want everything to stay the same, because that means more profit for them and less money for you. So yes, when I say "tea-bagger", I *DO* mean it as an insult - just like when you and your kind use the word "lib'rul" as an insult. Hey, it's not MY fault you lot started stapling tea bags to your heads. If you didn't know what the term was before, consider yourself educated now.

Quote:

OTOH,when you have a person/group that has and continues to perpetrate violence on ANYONE not with the program;well they got to go.

Ah, so I can expect to see you at the town hall meetings ushering out those who try to mob the congresspeople there, and those who burn them in effigy. Right? You'll help keep them in line, right? Because, as you said, "they got to go".

Quote:
THAT is the "SOB's I refer to when I say "just kill the SOBs".
Don't get me worng-insult me badly enough ;and I will throw with King Kong.But no,I do NOT mix my apples and oranges.

So if I disagree with right-wingers, if I can show where right-wingers have continually called for violence and acted out in violent ways against those who don't share their beliefs, then in your view I'd be completely justified in saying about them, "just kill the sons of bitches", right?

Good to know; I'll file that away.

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Monday, August 10, 2009 7:27 AM

Salman Pak was where Hussein trained terrorists to take over aircraft with items allowed in carry on until 09-11-01.Hussein bankrolled homicide bombers in Israel.Husseion killed a LOT more of his own people deliberately,then we have by accident.
Did some peckerwood inbreds at Abu Graibdo some stupid,vindictive shit?Yes.Did they get burned for it.Yes.Should MORE people have?You betcha.But lets face it-none of that comes close to th eexample I already gave regarding torture vs.duress.
You see,when we kill non-combatants,9 times out of 10 its collateral damage-more often than not because the jihadist scum are using them for cover.You know what they call body armor?Hugiing a kid to your chest.Last time I checked we were not stuffing Down Syndrome kids into suicide vests.Nor were we using other quaint methods of coercion to get someone behind the wheel of a car bomb.The jihadists ,whether they are local secartarian factios settling old scores,or "foreign fighters" from other countries LIKE to hit people in markets,mosques,schools.Honestly,I have NO problem seeing that they find the answere to that question"what happens when we die?".

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Monday, August 10, 2009 7:30 AM