I find it fascinating... by Niki2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Well, yeah, that too, except I would say "anybody who follows religious doctrine to the point of zelotry and blindness, as I think there are many who follow religious doctrine (as someone said, "individually" rather than "orgizationally") who don't mirror that attitude.

But in part, yes, the right does seem to claim the stronger religious stance, and uses it to serve their own purposes, as well as to fire up the base. Maybe they're just appealing to people who think that way, who can't abide dissent because only THEY are "right", dunno.

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Saturday, August 29, 2009 10:04 AM

HKCAVALIER

Required reading then: http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/
There is indeed psychology at work. Give the book a little time--starts out slow but gets more and more relevant as it goes along.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Saturday, August 29, 2009 10:09 AM

Oh you're not alone in that Nik - before your time in RWED but some of the "brutality" that's been mentioned by others to you in stern warning was actually mine, cause I can be utterly merciless to them.

It seems at times they're whole movement runs on hatred, fear, intolerance and misogyny. (sp?)
Not to mention violence, personal, political, and national, backed up by a heaping helping of cowardice both moral and personal.

Me, I got no patience for it, none whatever.

I do try to reason with em, but there's some who actively choose a path of horror, eyes wide open, embracing and glorifying in the temporary "power" it gives them, so long as their cabal is in charge that is...

And those, who have chosen that of their own free will ?

I don't even consider them human anymore, not gonna lie to you about it, so take that into consideration.

ETA
PS: Curse you, HKCav, for beating me to the punch, I was just LOOKIN for that link!

So I will back it up with this one.
http://www.alice-miller.com/articles_en.php

And most ESPECIALLY, this one, the shortest, most concise yet accurate explaination of WHY this problem exists and where it comes from.
http://www.naturalchild.org/alice_miller/adolf_hitler.html

-F

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Saturday, August 29, 2009 11:31 AM

WHOZIT

I AM FULL OF HATE, AND BEER, AND PIZZA!!! I wish you left-wing douchbags would shut up. You're the ones full of hate, but there are no Republicans with the power to hate. Republicans are WAY out of power, you have no one to trash........suck me, you liberal douchbag

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Saturday, August 29, 2009 12:01 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Uh, is he serious? Or kidding? If the former gosh, I gotta thank him for providing the perfect example. If the latter, hee, hee, hee...silly!

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Saturday, August 29, 2009 1:01 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

I think they undermine themselves quite a bit...

many on the right have valid points, and good ideas. But then the whack a doodles run loose and destroy and chance of open debate of ideas on their merits.

Not one for the religious angle myself, I think believe what you like but don't push your beliefs on anyone else.

That happens too little in our world

" I don't believe in hypothetical situations - it's kinda like lying to your brain "

" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson

Lets party like its 1939

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Saturday, August 29, 2009 1:06 PM

BYTEMITE

No, he's not kidding. Except about the beer, hate, and pizza thing, although I think the point of that was to express that he thinks the broad generalization of everyone on the right wing is offensive, but that this is a stereotype he's willing to play into because it annoys him AND empowers him.

To be fair, I do see folks on the left who argue an idea instead of the points of the person they're actually having a discussion with. Strawmen are sometimes just as disrespectful as insults, because in that case you are being ignored.

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Saturday, August 29, 2009 1:17 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Wow. Thank you, HK, that was illuminating. Only got through second chapter, but will finish (too much time on the internet is bad for the soul..and the eyes!). I understand a lot more now. I think it makes me sadder. Definitely more uncomfortable. Not sure which more, but I think sad. Lots to think about...

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Saturday, August 29, 2009 1:20 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Byte, I take your point. I've never said (or believed!) the left is free of wing nuts. I don't think I've noticed the lefties espousing ideas rather than discussing the specific issue; think I want to pay attention to that more. Monetheless, for ME, I find ranting and raving less offensive than being ignored...just personal preference.

I understand more from reading that first link (tho' I've got lots more to read), but I guess in the end it came down to specifics which reinforced some of my own theories, but explained them better.

What a world we live in. Or rather, "Strange little species, we are"...

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Saturday, August 29, 2009 2:40 PM

BYTEMITE

Well, in the Bush Administration, there was the pretty loud Oil for Blood crowd, although... >_> I kind of agreed with them. <_<

Anyone I think can be made to rant and rave if you get something in front of them that outrages them enough.

Sometimes it's entirely justified. :)

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Saturday, August 29, 2009 3:57 PM

Quote:
Anyone I think can be made to rant and rave if you get something in front of them that outrages them enough.

One flake, just one, one SINGLE FEKKIN FLAKE, of snow hits the ground, and they all panic!
Suddenly nobody knows how to drive anymore and they're all doing 20mph with their nose crammed to the window as if they've forgotten their wipers with their brains leakin out their ears, and where, oh WHERE pray tell are they going ?
Why to the supermarket of course, where every single bloody one of em has the SAME DAMN FIVE ITEMS, a gallon of milk, dozen eggs, two loaves of bread and four rolls of toilet paper, is if that would do you ANY GOOD AT ALL were you to be snowed in ? krishna on a crotch rocket you'd think folk from friggin michigan would know how to DRIVE, and especially drive IN THE SNOW since we ain't got but three seasons here, winter, more winter and road construction but nooooo, and you'd think they'd learn to lay in canned goods or maybe, just maybe read a freakin weather forecast BEFORE that flake hits the ground and causes their brains to melt, or at least admit that we live up north and sooner or later, you know, it's GOING TO SNOW, helll-O!
Or maybe think about the fact that your ford abomination weighs SEVEN THOUSAND POUNDS and no amount of imagined off-road capability is going to reduce the stopping distance of that monster once you got it rolling and maybe they shoulda thought of that BEFORE they put it sideways in a ditch and can't seem to get it out because it's again, SEVEN THOUSAND POUNDS...
But I digress...

-F

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Saturday, August 29, 2009 4:42 PM

BYTEMITE

Sorry! It just sounded familiar, so I had to post a VISUAL version.

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Saturday, August 29, 2009 5:03 PM

Hooo boyhowdy!
That's so true it's painful, meh.
Although I'd skip the oranges and go with a gym sock full of rusty thinwire terminators, since imma traditionalist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastard_Operator_From_Hell

-F

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Saturday, August 29, 2009 5:19 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
...that people on the right, wherever I encounter them, seem to be filled with a lot more hate, spout a lot more wild rhetoric, and seem less able to debate rationally than people on the left. Certainly, there are those on both sides, but everywhere I've been, the right-wing nut jobs seem to be so "out there", it's curious.

Maybe it's just where I am (near Washingtin, D.C.), but I tend to run into the irrational leftwingers a lot more. While walking on a trail in Shenandoah National Park, I encountered a woman who saw my NRA ball cap and asked if I was going to pull out my gun and shoot her

. I've gotten similar responses from folks who find out I target shoot and hunt. They are absolutely brainwashed, and are completely unable to hold a rational discussion or accept any point of view other than their own.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Sunday, August 30, 2009 5:00 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
...that people on the right, wherever I encounter them, seem to be filled with a lot more hate, spout a lot more wild rhetoric, and seem less able to debate rationally than people on the left. Certainly, there are those on both sides, but everywhere I've been, the right-wing nut jobs seem to be so "out there", it's curious.

Maybe it's just where I am (near Washingtin, D.C.), but I tend to run into the irrational leftwingers a lot more. While walking on a trail in Shenandoah National Park, I encountered a woman who saw my NRA ball cap and asked if I was going to pull out my gun and shoot her. I've gotten similar responses from folks who find out I target shoot and hunt. They are absolutely brainwashed, and are completely unable to hold a rational discussion or accept any point of view other than their own.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

I call it situational blindness - we see it in those we disagree with, those who don't share our views, yet we rarely notice it from those whose views we agree with. The right sees so much of it from the left, and the left sees it all coming from the right, and none from themselves.

I say there's plenty enough hate on both sides. I'm living proof - I'm a die-hard lefty loon, yet I've spewed enough vitriol to more than make up for any lack of testosterone on the left side of the aisle.

I'd say we should all engage in a respectful, reasoned debate, but from what I've seen that is NOT what anyone on either side really seems to want.

Mike

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Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:20 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
Or maybe think about the fact that your ford abomination weighs SEVEN THOUSAND POUNDS and no amount of imagined off-road capability is going to reduce the stopping distance of that monster once you got it rolling and maybe they shoulda thought of that BEFORE they put it sideways in a ditch and can't seem to get it out because it's again, SEVEN THOUSAND POUNDS...

Oh, Frem, thank you SO much for that part of the rant--or I should say "for ranting FOR me". Every single word: Huzzah! Right on! Absofrigginlootely! A good rant can be good for the soul sometimes, or at the very least relieve the tiniest bit of frustration!

On the other hand, I can't relate to the first part. We don't get snow--well, we've had a few flakes a couple of years ago, and I seem to remember a dusting back when I was a kid...

On the other hand, what we DO have are the maniacs in those same penis-enhancements (who never, NEVER go off road in their entire lives) who barrel down the freeway at 90 mph in the first rain of the season, completely oblivious to that same seven thousand pounds who left their brains at home and just want to get somewhere NOW, dammit!:blast/:

Geez, I live eleven miles North of SF, so it's a whole different world. I'm glad to be a born-and-bred California gal, as I see a TON more tolerance out here, and in No. Ca. in particular, it's just so understood that the libs outnumber the right that nobody has any problem with it.

I've been driving around in a car festooned with anti-Bush, anti-government, etc., bumperstickers COVERING my car's ass for years. While I have run into many, many people who get an absolute kick out of them and stop to read them and laugh, or pass me after tailing me for a bit and give me the thumbs up as they laugh, I have run into--literally--only TWO people who disagreed openly (both of course driving those same seven-thousand-pound, never-been-off-road-but-I-want-you-to-think-I'm-a-badass what we out here call "penis enhancements").

Of course, if you cross the Bay to Berserekely (and we even call it that) you can find the lefty wingnuts, but we usually laugh at them, or join the demonstration peacefully if it's of importance to us. So I rarely see them on the left.

On the other hand, the book Cavalier offered in that link has been VERY edifying, and has helped me understand that it's NOT just "me", what I've observed is very real and not just my opinion. I'm reading it a few chapters at a time, and talk about illuminating! So I stand by my first statement, and am coming to understand the reasons better.

I have absolutely NO doubt you see the worst of the left nutcases...they'd be in DC, 'cuz that's where the govmint is and that's who they hate. Out here, since most of us agree with whatever they're protesting (tho' not to the degree they do or as insanely), it's kind of a waste of time.

Frem,

Quote:
they're whole movement runs on hatred, fear, intolerance and misogyny

maybe not their WHOLE movement, tho' I realize you said "seems", but yeah; from what I'm reading, mostly fear and the mentality that chaos is either upon us or coming soon, all "different" things and people are dangerous and bad, and of course the old truism: What we don't understand, we fear; what we fear, we hate; what we hate, we try to destroy. Scary and sad mentality, I'm SO glad I don't live with it!

Quote:
many on the right have valid points, and good ideas. But then the whack a doodles run loose and destroy and chance of open debate of ideas on their merits.

I don't think a lot of them have valid points--definitely some do--but for the most part it seems visceral and un-thought-out emotion; those don't WANT to debate, in my opinion, only rant.

Quote:
Not one for the religious angle myself, I think believe what you like but don't push your beliefs on anyone else.

Ditto. My motto is "harm none; do what ye will". Not a popular theology with hard-core right-wingers, is buddhism. Means I'm bound for hell, simple as that, and the only thing that will help me is if I'm "saved" into their ways. Not worth dealing with, for me...but curious...

Mike, I disagree, for me at least. I see it and decry it on both sides, in anyone, and find the lefty fringers downright embarrassing, personally.

Quote:
I'd say we should all engage in a respectful, reasoned debate

--absofrigginlootely, but then we're all owed to dream, aren't we? Me, I LOVE a good debate, but it seems to be awfully hard to have with anyone on the die-hard right. Most often it's possible with moderates of either side, and at that it becomes debates on specific PARTS of one side or t'other, not the main issues. It's a shame.

Given what I'm learning about people with a "high RW index", I'm understanding more and more, and it's gonna save me a LOT of time trying to engage in debate with them. I'm grateful; I can use that time to much better advantage elsewhere (like housework!) and not get drawn in as much...I hope!

On the other hand,

Quote:
Anyone I think can be made to rant and rave if you get something in front of them that outrages them enough

that's the thing I need to learn to control. Sometimes the frustration gets to me, too, and I waste a lot of time "ranting" in my own way, or trying to posit logic and facts into the void. Working on that...

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Monday, August 31, 2009 12:19 PM

Nik,

I disagree. I'm fairly neutral these days, and the right has its biases, but I'd still give the left, not a monopoly, but the lion's share, and with a fair margin, on hate.

Nothing on the right can compare remotely to the vicera against Sarah Palin, and she was probably less hit than anyone in the last administration. So sure, there are right wing wackos that take after latinos, but then, there are similar left wing groups attacking christians, and everyone attacked the muslims.

In arguments, the people I most disagreed with on the right here were less virulent than those on the left. Socialists imho worst of all. There are people who simply will not shut up. But the more opinionated right wingers now gone, there were a couple non-stop posters, but nothing to equal the left, excluding the person I'm obviously excluding, because to be honest, that's not fair. I'm also excluding PN from whichever side he's on.

Still, the right has a lot of rant, particularly on talk radio and fox news commentators. If I had to be stuck in an argument with one, I'd gladly pick a fundie over a leftie, they're just more reasonable (2% vs 1%?)

In short, if someone doesn't see truth and lies; heroes and crooks; on both sides, then I tend to avoid any political discussion with them whatsoever.

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Monday, August 31, 2009 7:59 PM

Niki - one of the things that makes em hate me so is that understanding of what goes on in between their ears, enough of it to know *exactly* how to scare the everlivin crap out of em, or verbally start pulling the levers and switches to cause a meltdown.

That's also part and parcel of why I think hands-on interrogation is the surest sign of agenda or incompetence, cause if I wanted to I could psychologically break one of them down hard enough to get everything they knew without never layin a finger on em - although given that's kind of test to destruction* thing, one could make the case that's even WORSE than waterboarding.

What the bloody fools never seem to realize is that when they hand that kind of control over them out willy-nilly, anyone with that kind of knowledge can insinuate themselves somewhere upstream from their information gathering, particularly if they know the main sources, and use it to manipulate them.

Like I say: in the end the bad guys are gonna hand folks like me the very tools of their own destruction on a silver platter, without even realizing it.

Understand THAT concept, why and how it works, and you'll be ahead of the game by that much, although you'll have to answer to your own morality about just how willing to manipulate other people you are - I don't have a lotta empathy for folks who actively and loudly call for my incarceration or destruction though.

-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Tuesday, September 1, 2009 7:23 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

If you are talking about here, or other similar places, perhaps I might agree with you (tho' not currently or on the two FF websites I've been on--I wasn't on either during the Dumbya Years). But IRL, I disagree.

Quote:
Nothing on the right can compare remotely to the vicera against Sarah Palin, and she was probably less hit than anyone in the last administration

I heartily disagree "compare remotely?? How can you compare at ALL what she's been on the receiving end of to what's happening all over to Obama?! That blows my mind...calls for his DEATH, his wife and children's death, calling him the anti-christ, hitler, etc., to me FAR outweigh the trash Palin took!

Nope, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. And yes, Frem, now I do understand the whys of authoritarian-followers' thinking, and thus how tempting it would be to manipulate them. But I'm not into manipulation; I'll usually TRY to talk to them reasonably, until it becomes impossible.

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Tuesday, September 1, 2009 11:05 AM

Niki

I could be wrong, it's just a perspective, but to clarify: Sarah Palin was a VP candidate. The last VP to get this kind of attack was Dan Quayle, and then GHWB, Spiro Agnew (sp?) but not Joe Biden, Al Gore, Walter Mondale, right? So comparatively.

If you want to bring in executives, sure, the Obama hate crowd is loon beyond reason, but then again, you're not about to tell me that no one compared Bush to Hitler, his administrations to Nazi Germany, asked people to kill him, questioned his loyalty, honesty, intelligence, to say nothing of daring to call policies fascist, etc. No?

Well, sure, by the end, I'd probably say "sure, to some extent they had a point" but that misses the core detail that the left was already making these sorts of accusations while GW Bush had scarcely done anything other than play Golf.

Re: Obama, I have it on good authority that he's a great guy, and I think it's unfortunate that he's the front man for a Clintonista democratic party. His current cabinet does more strongly resemble what Hillary constructed on the campaign trail than what Obama did, as does his administrative policy, which casts some doubt on who is actually holding the power. Given time, we'll see. I said 18 months and I'm sticking to it.

But re: criticisms, not to be too cliche with the apples and oranges, but anti-Obama has to be compared to anti-Bush. When I said nothing compares to the anti-Palin hate, I meant for her position, instantly we were bombarded by anti-rural, class war bigotry even to the low of some idiot, I think it was Bill Maher, attacking Eskimos. On the gaff-o-meter, there was more than a sampling of target material for any republican to make a dartboard out of Joe Biden.

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Tuesday, September 1, 2009 2:06 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Ah, in that case we have no argument; if you are comparing the crap Palin received to the crap any other VP candidate received. The way you worded it sounded like it was an all-encompassing statement. This clarifies it.

Certainly I agree Dumbya got his fair share, but no, I don't think it was quite this much concerted viciousness, certainly not right off the bat, was it? There are wing nuts in every crowd, but it feels as if there are far more against Obama--maybe because they're getting more pess, or because they're being allowed the freedom to be noisier and more visible, I dunno.

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Tuesday, September 1, 2009 6:37 PM

Niki

Yes, there was. Bush-nazi was from the get-go, before he had made any policy decisions on the grounds that his grandfather had been involved with the union bank corp which had invested with Thyssen in Silesian Steel, which admittedly was appalling, but it was weakened by the fact that this was Bush 41's father, and 41 had already been president, without being accused of inheriting the Nazi gene. *(what? does it skip a generation?)

But that, the AWOL, etc. it was ready-set-character assassination.

I will give you one thing: The press is very hostile to Obama, more than is merited. Not to put too fine a point on it, but it might just have something to do with the whole "Hussein" thing. Yah, I know, ixnay on the ionismzay, but the press decided Obama would be an enemy of Israel long before Obama was an enemy of Israel, thus very seriously not helping their case.

Still, even now, this discussion about the bombings in Pakistan, upscaling war in Afghanistan, new violence in Iraq with the breakaway Kurdish republic...

Every single misstep of Bush on foreign policy was plastered on every news page. Obama can bomb a whole civilian village into oblivion and it doesn't even make the headlines.

So sure, I'm not defending Bush, he can go f^&k himself. But I can't grant that conservatives are collectively more visceral than liberals, or that the media is more overall hostile to Obama. Yet

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 6:24 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I don't buy that Obama is an enemy of Israel. I see it that America has supported Israel to an absurd point, to where they feel they have impunity to engage in exactly what we backed them to fight; to the point where the REST of the world sees it more clearly, while parts of America decry our lessening of acceptance of their actions and considers it making him their "enemy". Bush and those before him gave unquestioning support, and you talk about not getting headlines? How many headlines do the atrocities of the Israeli's get, how many have they EVER gotten in America? Ask the rest of the world one of the main reasons they hate us and you'll find out--as I was educated by others in countries in Europe--it's our unqualified backing of Israel. We don't even know for the most part that it's an ISSUE to the rest of the world. It is.

It's not about the Hussein thing; that was just one more convenient tactic to appeal to the racism that still abounds in America.

Boy, we must get our news from different sources; I've heard often about the decrying of whole civilian villages and the cry to stop murdering civilians while going after the Taliban and Al Qaeda. Why haven't you?

Give me numbers on the amount of people who went after Bush as viciously as those who have gone after Obama--in the first seven months of his being in office--and maybe we have something to talk about. Until then, no, I don't buy it. I don't buy it that the massive number of pawns out there calling for death to Obama are anything LIKE the number of people who hated Bush openly.

Nope, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Personally, I think over time what I've observed is that the Republican PARTY politicians (not the citizens) have a wealth of tactics to stir up their base and use them effectively; the Democratic party, not so much.

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 8:26 AM

Quote:
Every single misstep of Bush on foreign policy was plastered on every news page.

Sorry, but I am going to have to call bullshit on that one.

I was THERE, it was like the man could do no wrong, every goddamn newspaper was strokin him like no tomorrow, and Fox "news" blew what pathetic credibility they ever had by practically fellating him and his administration all the way - on top of pro-administration "editorials" paid for out of government funds and flat out propaganda bullshit out of the OSP on top of it...

Oh yeah, and let's not forget Jeffie Gannon and Talon News Service, and just how FAST the MSM *sank* that story, yes ?

Something which, BECAUSE Obama can still run them over for it, because some of it went far enough that if he wanted to, with proof in hand, he could level Criminal Charges for, now they're sucking up to HIM as hard as they can and damned if he ain't using that to his every advantage.

I do note they're now using the same subliminal "halo shot" trick with Obama they did with Bush, and it's just as laughable now to someone like me as it was when they played it with shrub.

The media barely, tenatively, make some forays only AFTER it was clear his administration was toast, in an effort to pre-emptively suck up to the "new overlords" so that their past misdeeds didn't get held against them.

The MSM is a friggin joke anyway, bread and circuses for the masses, and everyone knows it, even those consuming the bread!

They're gonna suck up to whoever has the power, and right now that's the "scary black man" in the oval office - while the alternative media either rips into his misdeeds oh so gently, while praising his socialist policies (left) or uses it to pump up their pyschotic followers (right) by playing on their native intolerance and racism.

You want "News" these days, you have to DIG for it, crossref, compare, and distill the truth out of the hundreds of distortions and lies - that ain't changed NONE since the days of Hearst and yellow journalism, but our ability to do it damn sure has - and that's why the powers that be want the internet strangled.

Too late, even if they did, samzidat, ham radio, alt-radio off the old analog TV bands, we WILL find a way.

-F

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 8:30 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

So... out of curiosity... how many of our troops died today?

A year ago, you could tally the body count, on a day by day bloody horrific count, as it was ALL over the news.

But today? Not so much. Its like Iraq and Afghanistan have dropped off the face of the earth.

So, I guess that means no soldiers have died, and its all roses over there.

ETA: Now its just the Swine Flu we need to care about....

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 8:41 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Are you gorram KIDDING ME? I hear the death tallies every NIGHT...where do you get your news? The joke right now is that even the right is saying "pull out of Afghanistan", which they accused the left of being "cut and run" tactics!

I hear discussions of Afghanistan daily, too...Iraq has become less important in comparison, but I sure as hell hear the body count nightly.

Weird...

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 8:43 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

CNN.

http://www.cnn.com/

Yeah, Swine Flu, and Healthcare...

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 8:43 AM

Diminishing returns and the fact that few support it are responsible for that, Wulfie.

They were posting those to wind up the base and get the hate flowing, and posting them NOW would get the hate flowing in a DIFFERENT direction, like, at the folk who haven't pulled us OUT of this mess, instead of those evil darker than us people who hate us for no reason at all cause they're all evil n stuff...
*SNARK*

-F

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 8:51 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

EXACTLY!

Its propaganda any way you look at it.

Im so sick of it, you guys have no idea.

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 9:03 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

In response to your previous re CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/08/28/afghanistan.us.troop.death
s/index.html?iref=newssearch

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/08/16/britain.afghanistan.toll/in
dex.html?iref=newssearch

Like I said, I hear it every night...there and elsewhere...

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 11:24 AM

Nik

Maybe so, but Israel is trying very hard to make Obama an enemy of Israel. It's really one of the most impressive acts of self sabotage I've seen in a while.

The most impressive has to be Prince Nayef, who gave money to a terrorist group which then used the money to hire a terrorist to try to assassinate him. Said terrorist only succeeded in suiciding himself.

Re: bush, there was a lot of hate, the obama hate is getting absurd too, I guess it can't be easily measured. Argh. Partisanship.

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 2:18 PM