But It's Not Because He's BLACK, I Swear!!! by Kwicko

Another article at:

http://www.abpnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4377&
Itemid=53

This is an excerpt of their article on the whole debacle, and how the superintendent is being called on it by Pastor Dwight McKissic:

Quote:
"Why is it appropriate for students to hear from former President Bush on Sept. 21 at the Cowboy[s] Stadium, but inappropriate for the current president to address students while they remain on school campuses?" McKissic asked. "Why is President Obama's message considered to be an intrusion on the school day, a disruptive and unplanned class activity, a message 'not deemed appropriate' for students to hear or a message regarded as 'something students should not be exposed to?' Yet it is accepted as an appropriate message for students to hear from unnamed Dallas Cowboys, business and community leaders?"

Mike

"It was already blue when we got here!"

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Wednesday, September 9, 2009 4:19 PM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

No, its because hes a Democrat... duh.

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 1:49 AM

JONGSSTRAW

The BIG question here is WHY would anyone want to hear anything that Bush has to say about anything?

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 2:09 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
No, its because hes a Democrat... duh.

Also a Yankee.

But the issue is valid, I understand letting Bush speak. Local kid (kinda) made good, you can too, Texas is great, etc. I understand not wanting a political speech from the President.

I think once the text of Obama's speech was released it was a mistake not to let his speech be seen.

I also agree with the Democrats that hearings on Obama's use of Dept of Education funds to pay for the speech need to be held...just like they wanted when President Bush spoke in 1991.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 2:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
No, its because hes a Democrat... duh.

Also a Yankee.

How can that be? I thought you were convinced that he was a Kenyan!

And what is it, exactly, that's wrong with being "a Yankee", anyway? If you'll recall, we were the ones who actually WON that particular war. You'd prefer it if he were a loser instead?

Quote:

But the issue is valid, I understand letting Bush speak. Local kid (kinda) made good, you can too, Texas is great, etc.

And he's white. Don't forget that part.

Quote:
I understand not wanting a political speech from the President.

Especially a black President.

Quote:

I think once the text of Obama's speech was released it was a mistake not to let his speech be seen.

So you agree that they must release the text of the Bush speech if they're going to let him speak to kids?

Quote:

I also agree with the Democrats that hearings on Obama's use of Dept of Education funds to pay for the speech need to be held...just like they wanted when President Bush spoke in 1991.

So let's see whose money is paying for Bush's speech, shall we? Who's paying to bus these kids to the stadium? According to the school district, they're using school buses, which means drivers hired by the district, buses paid for by the district. Now, if they want to have volunteers drive the kids in their own vehicles, not on a school day, and having nothing whatsoever to do with the schools, that would be a different story.

Deal?

Mike

"It was already blue when we got here!"

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 4:36 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

To Kwick,

Just a thought. When a person claims everything is racist, people stop listening. Like crying wolf, or that the sky is falling.

Just like you shouldn't say everyone who disagrees with Israel is an anti-semite, you shouldn't say everyone who disagree with Obama is a racist.

Save calling someone a racist for when they actually ARE being racist.

And yes, I KNOW, I've said some stupid, hurtful, mean things before. Things that WERE racist. Im trying to get past that.

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 5:31 AM

Wulf - THANK YOU!

THAT is what I've been driving at, what I've been trying to get you to realize. It's why I've been such an ass to you, to get you questioning WHY your first reactions are that it's something to do with race, and just go with that and not think about it any deeper.

And yes, I was hoping someone WOULD try to clear this up. So far, no one really has. WHAT is it that Obama is saying that's so threatening to people's children, to their way of life, to their nation?

The responses I've gotten range from "he's a Democrat", with no other rationalization needed, seemingly (and I know that was just you being snarky), to "he's a Yankee", with no other rationalization being needed, seemingly.

So I have to ask, on September 12, 2001, would it have been even ACCEPTABLE, much less cheered and laughed about by pundits like Karl Rove, for Democrats in Congress to walk out on Bush's speech to the nation, or to not show up for it, or - worst of all - to boo him in mid-speech and yell things like "YOU LIE!"

What is it that makes this behavior acceptable - hell, most on the right even seem to see it as laudable - NOW, when it's done to THIS President?

Many say it has nothing to do with his race. Okay, if you want me to accept that, please explain to me what it DOES concern, then.

And Wulf, I'm proud of you. You've had a breakthrough, and that's something. I'm no longer convinced that you either can't learn, or won't. There may be hope for you yet.

Quote:

And yes, I KNOW, I've said some stupid, hurtful, mean things before. Things that WERE racist. Im trying to get past that.

And THAT is a HUGE first step.

Mike

"It was already blue when we got here!"

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 6:25 AM

GINOBIFFARONI

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
The BIG question here is WHY would anyone want to hear anything that Bush has to say about anything?

I can think of a few who would like to hear what he has got to say.....under oath

" I don't believe in hypothetical situations - it's kinda like lying to your brain "

" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson

Lets party like its 1939

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 6:32 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

You can disagree with Obama for a number of reasons.

For me, I dont agree with the auto bailouts, nor the health insurance thing.

I think that he should have immediately repealed the Patriot Act, and if he was so strongly against the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, the soldiers should be home already.

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 6:36 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I, too, would like to congratulate you, Wulf--if it's okay from a newbie

. There have been times I agree with you, times I disagree with you, and to be able to debate with someone intelligent and thoughtful is much better than having to ignore someone's blind prejudicial remarks. I hope you keep trying, and I'd like to say "welcome", because when you're thoughtful, I feel like you're part of the disscussion. I do feel racism is INVOLVED, but I think it's so deeply buried by other "explanations" at this point that it can only be seen as one of the root causes, a basis for all the idiotic excuse for the things that are happening, not a recognized or conscious one (at least not to be admitted by those for whom it is closer to the surface).

As to the question at hand.

Quote:
What is it that makes this behavior acceptable - hell, most on the right even seem to see it as laudable - NOW, when it's done to THIS President?

I don't think it's totally racial, either. I think it's a combination of things, and I think yes, race does play a part. But only a part--his opponents have grabbed fear (which is of course at the base of racism) and run with it, and I think that part is played on subconsciously now and the other things are the "surface" reasons. Facism, socialism, Nazism, are all disguises for "fear of change/other".

Beyond that, for one thing, yes, "local boy makes good" plays into it, I'd bet. And he was governor. And he was popular down there. And he's a Republican. And he's a democrat. And the Republican Party (among others) have created such an atmosphere of hate, of where "hate is okay", that just about any contradiction is believable. Remember, Texas has been making all kinds of noise about seceding and stuff. In any place that's going as far as that, and given the atmosphere in America, I find it amazing and galling, but not surprising.

As to his speech to the kids, I think putting that bit about "how can you help Obama..." in was a stupid move. Surely they HAVE to be aware of the atmosphere right now, and to put ANYTHING in that the right can grab ahold of and call "indoctrination" and rail against was lack of forethought. Once that was out there, it opened the door. It matters not at all that they pulled it--they're still hollering about "death panels" and not only were they never THERE, what they labeled that has been removed. So although the "indoctrination" part was removed, the stage was set for those who hate/fear Obama to say they could avoid the entire speech. It's stupid, it's insane, but it's what's happening in our country right now.

Those are the things I think are behind it.

I think the booing and "You're lying" at his speech are just as bad an indication of how far this has all gone. Yes, the Brit Parliament shouts at one another, but it's not the same thing. That's a long-held tradition and the way they do things, there's an almost 'polite' mentality behind it. This is hate, pure and simple, and the belief that it's okay to do whatever outrageous thing you feel like doing with impunity. It sickens me. Just like wearing a gun to an Obama event, it sets precedence. I'm afraid we'll see more of it, because I have no doubt his fellow Republicans will laud him for it, as you said.

I sincerely HOPE the Bush event is cancelled--that one is overtly absurd. I don't see how they can justify it now; as you said, once the word is out, it'll be tough to pull it off...tho' I'm not holding my breath. There's so much going on that would have been unbelievable a few decades ago but is now allowed and encouraged, we've become partly a pretty sick society.

Maybe we're not ready for a Black President after all. Because yes, it IS that partly to which they are appealing deep down, as well as to all those who still believe in Bush and to those who are locked in fear, fear of change, fear of the "other". The Republicans have made it their sole purpose to bring him down, to stymie anything he tries to accomplish; fear is the tactic that served them so well in recent years, as well as race being a real convenient partner to it.

Quote:
The BIG question here is WHY would anyone want to hear anything that Bush has to say about anything?

Mystifies me, too, but he's speaking all over the place. I'm guessing partly because he's still got supporters--in Texas they still love him, but that doesn't explain anywhere else. I'm guessing connections...? Because why anyone would want to hear ANYTHING out of his mouth (except as a display of an administration gone horribly wrong) is a complete mystery to me, especially the more and more we know about the truth. Go figger.

Quote:
I also agree with the Democrats that hearings on Obama's use of Dept of Education funds to pay for the speech need to be held...just like they wanted when President Bush spoke in 1991.

Is this TRUE, or a typo? Why on earth would the DEMS be behind this...that one REALLY doesn't make sense!

Quote:
what is it, exactly, that's wrong with being "a Yankee"

Aw, c'mon Mike, you know perfectly well that mentality is still alive and kicking in the South...some down there have never forgiven us for winning...and I think there's some misguided pride involved, akin to Mal's "losing side, but I'm not sure wrong side" remark. That may never change, given how long it's already survived.

When it comes to the funds, I don't know but I'm imagining Obama's speech was to be televised on campus, in an auditorium or something. Comparing censoring THAT while engaging in all the expense you listed, Mike, to take them to a football stadium, is atrocious. All in all it's one more sign of the degeneration of our DEMOCRACY and respect for the office of President, and I abhor it.

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

I hope nobody minds my using color for my posts...I'm not just enjoying it, I'm finding it very useful in locating where I left off in long posts!

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 6:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
You can disagree with Obama for a number of reasons.

Oh, I do. And not a one of them has anything to do with the color of his skin.

Quote:

For me, I dont agree with the auto bailouts, nor the health insurance thing.

Auto bailouts were a bitter pill, but I'm not sure what the alternatives were. I despise American cars, because they've consistently decided that "good enough is good enough" and refused to even TRY to excel. Still, it wouldn't be easy watching not only the carmakers go down the drain, but also watching their suppliers go down with them. And realizing that every one of those people who's now lost their job is likely part of a larger family who's now going to go without - without health care, without a home, without food, without hope, without a chance to get out and rise above. Sorry, but I think when we're so busy trying to "spread democracy" and American values abroad, maybe, just maybe, we should try to spread them here at home a little bit, too.

But that's just me.

I'm with ya on the health insurance thing, as far as the direction it's headed.

Quote:

I think that he should have immediately repealed the Patriot Act, and if he was so strongly against the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, the soldiers should be home already.

Yes, yesm, and an emphatic YES!

I'm not sure Obama himself can actually repeal the Patriot Act, but he can push for its rollback, he can call for an investigation into its legality and standing in the Supreme Court. In short, he can bloody well do SOMETHING on that front. Also, he CAN - and he goddamned well knows this - issue an Executive Order immediately setting aside "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" and any interrogation protocols that could conceivably be construed as allowing torture. He knows he can do this, he promised to do it, and he hasn't moved a bit.

So yeah, there ARE plenty of very legitimate reasons to disagree with Obama.

Mike

"It was already blue when we got here!"

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 6:54 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

I've said it before, and I think it bears repeating...

A black president being elected has been a good thing: for several reasons.

1. People are finally starting to pay attention. Some because they can't stand it, some because they are in love with themselves, others cause its unprecedented. Any way you slice it tho, people are watching, thinking, arguing, and FINALLY caring. Even if you dont agree with it, or think the basis for it is wrong, its a good thing. The people are paying attention and giving a damn.

2. Obama, for all I disagree with what hes doing, IS a role model. I remember reading somewhere that at his inauguration, you had Beyonce and Jay-Z in the backround. It showed how pathetic the so called celebrities of black culture were compared to the newly elected President. Obama was an example that anyone (black/white) could be proud of. (Despite his socialistic tendencies... which is endemic of Libs, and Dems as a whole IMHO)

3. It also got rid of the excuse-makers, or at least exposed them. "The man is holding me down" ect, really doesn't carry much weight anymore does it?

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 7:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
I can think of a few who would like to hear what he has got to say.....under oath

Especially if there's a waterboard involved.

-F

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 7:17 AM

RIPWASH

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Auto bailouts were a bitter pill, but I'm not sure what the alternatives were.

I'm not even sure it was a pill that needed to be taken. Heck, the bailout to GM didn't even work and they filed for bankruptcy (Chapter 11, whatever) anyway. All that money spent for naught.

Quote:
I despise American cars, because they've consistently decided that "good enough is good enough" and refused to even TRY to excel.

Could the reason be (and I'm saying this in all seriousness) that the cause for this was the unions? I've heard stories - some firsthand, others from a "friend of a friend" kind of deal - of workers only doing so much just to barely meet or even go below their quota so they could work over-time in order to meet the quota at the end of the week. They could have easily met the quota or even exceeded it in the 40 hour week, but slowed down their work process so they could come in over the weekend and earn the extra money. Taking advantage of the system, in other words. So it might boil down to good ol' humanistic greed. Instead of American workers doing their best to get the job done, done right and done on time, they lollygagged and just skimmed by. That's just IMHO. I've got no facts to back that up. Only, for instance, the GM "jobs bank" where they paid a few thousand employees to sit around and do nothing for 8 hours a day but with full pay and benefits. All that money could have been put toward making the cars better and more competitive.

Quote:
Still, it wouldn't be easy watching not only the carmakers go down the drain, but also watching their suppliers go down with them. And realizing that every one of those people who's now lost their job is likely part of a larger family who's now going to go without - without health care, without a home, without food, without hope, without a chance to get out and rise above.

I'll agree with you there, but again, but I'll still stick to what I said above. I think the unions shot themselves in the foot as far as that was concerned. Their greed led to the US auto industry being not able to compete against the foreign auto-makers whose US plants/factories (from what I've heard) are NOT unionized.

Quote:
Sorry, but I think when we're so busy trying to "spread democracy" and American values abroad, maybe, just maybe, we should try to spread them here at home a little bit, too.

Good point.

*********************************************

"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 7:41 AM

Quote:

3. It also got rid of the excuse-makers, or at least exposed them. "The man is holding me down" ect, really doesn't carry much weight anymore does it?

Oh, there are always going to be those. And the thing is, they come in all skin colors, too. A great number of them now call themselves tea-baggers. :)

Thing is, the ONLY thing that can truly hold anyone down is themselves.

Mike

"It was already blue when we got here!"

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 7:43 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"Thing is, the ONLY thing that can truly hold anyone down is themselves."

DAMN

RIGHT.

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 7:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
I can think of a few who would like to hear what he has got to say.....under oath

Especially if there's a waterboard involved.

-F

Nope, that's where ya lose me. I'd like to see Bush and Cheney called up for war crimes and tried, but I'll not condone torture, even for them. What you do for the least among us, is what you do for the best among us. I want my country to actually be able to say, with honesty, "We don't torture." ANYONE. No matter how richly they may deserve it.

And I know you're just joking, Frem, because I happen to know you feel the same way. Equal means EQUAL, not "except for..."

Mike

"It was already blue when we got here!"

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 7:49 AM

Quote:
I think the unions shot themselves in the foot as far as that was concerned. Their greed led to the US auto industry being not able to compete against the foreign auto-makers whose US plants/factories (from what I've heard) are NOT unionized.

Keep going. Follow that train of thought. WHY aren't the Toyota and Honda plants unionized? They're allowed to be, by law. They've taken great pains to make damn sure to treat the workers BETTER than the UAW would "demand" they treat them. As a result, because it's more of a negotiation-on-equal-footing (or MORE equal footing, at least), you have managers happy to give benefits, and workers happy to have good jobs. And you get vehicles that are as good as any sold anywhere in the world. You have happy, proud workers who WANT to do a really good job, as opposed to pissed off workers who feel like the only way they're going to see any benefit is if they hold management hostage.

Why were the unions being asked to give more concessions back to the big three when they were raking in their record profits on the sales of large SUVs? Why were the execs so unwilling to share the wealth? Could it be that THAT was some of the reason the UAW members are surly?

Just wondering.

Mike

"It was already blue when we got here!"

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 7:52 AM

RIPWASH

Sounds to me like there was plenty of money being grasped at from both ends of the spectrum then, eh? Good points, Mike.

*********************************************

"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 7:59 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Funny that with all the bailouts... noone is buying GM cars...

Maybe Im naive, but I like to think its because people are pissed that these rat bastards went begging for government money.

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:30 AM

Nah, it's cause GM cars are shit.

I need ANOTHER set of brakes now, AGAIN, grrrr!
Friggin Oldsmobile, rot in hell.

-F

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Funny that with all the bailouts... noone is buying GM cars...

Maybe Im naive, but I like to think its because people are pissed that these rat bastards went begging for government money.

You WISH it were that simple.

Thing is, the new Camaro has a waiting list. And the list consists of the kinds of people who always bought Camaros - the "America, Fuck Yeah!" brigade who are steadfastly patriotic, no matter WHAT that means. "My country wrong or right!" and all that rot. THOSE are the people lining up to buy Camaros from "Government Motors". Ironic, ain't it?

'Course, on the other hand, what COULD be more patriotic or "Buy American" than buying a car from a carmaker owned by the American taxpayers?

Mike

"It was already blue when we got here!"

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:34 AM

Re: The waterboard comment.

Of COURSE it was more or less this - just cause it's so fun!

I like winding up the wingnuts, meh, call it a flaw of character.

-F

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:48 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
I'd like to see Bush and Cheney called up for war crimes and tried, but I'll not condone torture, even for them.

Me too. 'Tho that, the Patriot Act, "Homeland Security" (which isn't), Don't Ask Don't Tell, indefinite detention, and a bunch of other things have me pissed off. I'm still waiting and hoping...but pissed off.

Damned, Wulf, I agree with you again, to a degree. This is getting scary! I agree about the unions--they've gotten too powerful, but I also agree

Quote:
Why were the unions being asked to give more concessions back to the big three when they were raking in their record profits on the sales of large SUVs? Why were the execs so unwilling to share the wealth? Could it be that THAT was some of the reason the UAW members are surly?

Nothing's black and white--both automakers AND Wall Street shot themselves in the foot for personal gain. Unfortunately, Wall Street's being allowed to go back to "business as usual", just using OUR money to do it.

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

I hope nobody minds my using color for my posts...I'm not just enjoying it, I'm finding it very useful in locating where I left off in long posts!

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:58 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

As a question: Whats wrong with "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"?

Look, the military is a very, VERY machismo arena.

Being weak is, well dangerous. To you, and those around you. The weak ones, are the ones who get you killed.

And, being gay, is considered weak. I'm sorry, it is. Argue it all you want, but among hetero guys, it is weak, strange, weird, and somewhat awful. (Yes, I know all the arguments about how being openly gay takes all kinds of strength ect ect)

However, not having to say you are a fruit, and still serving your country, isnt that the best of all worlds?

I have gay friends, and those that have served. They never had a problem with the "Dont Ask ect" stuff, so why do other people?

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 9:07 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Being Black once kept you out of the service. Black people were considered untrustworthy, AND WEAK, lazy, etc., so you couldn't trust them to back you up.

Hasn't that been proven wrong?

Same with gays. I don't care how they're seen today, given time, it would be the same as Blacks. They need a chance to prove themselves, openly.

And how about the huge number of translators we've lost because it came out they were gay? Don't need to back up your comrades to translate, and without it, it's only further hampered our efforts in Iraq.

I have had gay friends over the years, and I think it's absolutely SICK that homophobes feel the way they do--you'd never know these people were gay if they didn't tell you.

I happen to be bi. Didn't even know it myself until I was in my late 40s. Does that make me weak, too, a different person than I was before knew? I'm not in the military, but given gays and bis have been accepted into our society fully (at least out here in CA--worked for a law firm, one homosexual, one lesbian lawyer; good people, smart as whips, nobody cared if they were gay). Time for the military to grow up.

If we never change things, things never change. It's long past time this was changed...good, lifetime military men with records of bravery and medals have been kicked out because it was "found out" they were gay. It's not don't ask, don't tell; it goes a whole lot further than that if you look into it.

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

I hope nobody minds my using color for my posts...I'm not just enjoying it, I'm finding it very useful in locating where I left off in long posts!

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 9:08 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Could the reason be (and I'm saying this in all seriousness) that the cause for this was the unions? I've heard stories - some firsthand, others from a "friend of a friend" kind of deal - of workers only doing so much just to barely meet or even go below their quota so they could work over-time in order to meet the quota at the end of the week. They could have easily met the quota or even exceeded it in the 40 hour week, but slowed down their work process so they could come in over the weekend and earn the extra money. Taking advantage of the system, in other words. So it might boil down to good ol' humanistic greed. Instead of American workers doing their best to get the job done, done right and done on time, they lollygagged and just skimmed by. That's just IMHO.

That's a natural result of the adversarial management/ worker system. You work, the bosses rake in the dough for nothing and crack the whip.

Now, if the workers owned GM they'd have no one but themselves to blame. And they'd be truly motivated to excel.

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 9:12 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

I'm not saying that you should hide who you are, but its like your AR. You need to know that it won't fail you when you pull the trigger. If it does, at the wrong time, you are dead.

AND, what would you suggest? That gay men serve with the females?

Part of being able to count on the person nxt to you, is that you dont have to worry about having turned them down and they letting you die because of it.

ETA: Beside the differences in strength, its one of the reasons females don't serve with the men.

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 1:22 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
Part of being able to count on the person nxt to you, is that you dont have to worry about having turned them down and they letting you die because of it.

That's bull. African-Americans now serve just fine along everyone else...and like I said, they were once considered unfit to serve. There's no problem now with trusting an African-American, no worry that because you've said something racist, or any other reason having to do with his being Black, maybe he will "let you die because of it". You don't think racist ugliness creates less emotion than asking for a date, do you???

You think Jews can't trust Evangelical Christians because their religion is different? Or Democrats not trust Republicans? There's a LOT of intense feeling about one's politics or religion...far more than being turned down for a DATE!

That's truly bogus, IMO, and just as bad as the excuses they used to make for not letting African-Americans in the military. There's always an excuse for anything if you look hard enough, and that's a pretty weak one. Racism/homophobia, they're equal in my eyes, and we've gotten rid of one in the military, time to get rid of the other.

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 1:53 PM

I think he's goin for something other than "get back in the closet" here, honestly, he just ain't gettin it across.

I've always been a big fan of complete apathy towards race or religion - why should I care if it don't affect me, honestly, right ?

And I *think* his thrust here is "who really gives a shit" if they are or aren't, so long as they lug their share of the ammo, watch their fire zone, and don't sexually harrass the other troops, which is all we really ask of straight folk too, yes ?

I always suspected my loader might have been, but yanno, I never asked him, never cared, he lugged the ammo and watched my back (oh room for such a bad pun there too!) and I got no complaints.

Sometimes the best response to those barriers between us really is apathy, just a shrug, because in that action you refuse to pile them higher.

-F

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 3:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Nah, it's cause GM cars are shit.

I need ANOTHER set of brakes now, AGAIN, grrrr!
Friggin Oldsmobile, rot in hell.

-F

Wanna trade it for a Dodge? Or a Ford?

I've got a Dodge Durango with less than 20,000 miles on the clock. It has ONE window that works, and that one only occasionally. It's the passenger-side front window - but it only works from the driver's-side control panel. I am not making this up! I keep telling my wife I'm going to pry the "E" off the rear "DODGE" plaque and replace it with a "Y", to reflect their quality: DODGY.

Oh, and when you go to fill it with gas now, the fuel-filler neck falls into the chassis. It happened to me yesterday. I almost fell over laughing, 'cause the only thing I could think was, "Well, that fucking figures."

My buddy Brad might have it worse, though. He's a Ford man. Loves him some F150 pickups, and buys a brand new one every two years, whether he needs it or not. This last one has 18,000 miles on it, and we just put on his THIRD set of pads and rotors, on all four wheels. Ford doesn't want to do anything about it to try and make it right, laying off excuses like, "Oh, the rotors are made of softer metal on these models", which is horseshit. So we put on aftermarket rotors and pads, since they aren't covered under warranty anyway. And he let them know at the Ford dealership, where he's been a lifelong customer (he's 46 now, been buying and driving Ford trucks every two years for 30 years), in no uncertain terms, that this is his very last Ford product, ever. Told 'em they can go fuck theyselves, as he put it. And he went straight out and bought a Honda Ridgeline. So they could've done right by him, but that would have taken a little money and effort, so they've lost him forever - and his money with him.

Mike

"It was already blue when we got here!"

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 3:59 PM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"And I *think* his thrust here is "who really gives a shit" if they are or aren't, so long as they lug their share of the ammo, watch their fire zone, and don't sexually harrass the other troops, which is all we really ask of straight folk too, yes ?"

Exactly.

The "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" thing just makes it so that its never an issue.

Don't ask, don't have to tell... who gives a frak?

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 4:01 PM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Also, as a side note...

Don't, don't, EVER, E V E R, call being gay the new black.

BAD mistake.

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 4:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
I'm not saying that you should hide who you are, but its like your AR. You need to know that it won't fail you when you pull the trigger. If it does, at the wrong time, you are dead.

AND, what would you suggest? That gay men serve with the females?

Part of being able to count on the person nxt to you, is that you dont have to worry about having turned them down and they letting you die because of it.

ETA: Beside the differences in strength, its one of the reasons females don't serve with the men.

Again, Wulf, I must ask that you look, learn, research. What you're saying tends to apply pretty much ONLY to the U.S. and a few Western European militaries. Go look up "Russian snipers" on the ol' Google engine; I really think you'd get a hell of a kick out of it, as far as women in combat go. And look up the Russian women bomber pilots, too - the women who were given obsolete biplane bombers in WWII, and who flew night bombing missions over the German encampments, and did so without parachutes. And look into the Israeli military, and who serves in what roles.

As for soldiers looking out for each other, do you assume that they only look out for the ones they want to fuck? If so, how gay is YOUR army?

Mike

"It was already blue when we got here!"

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 4:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:

The "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" thing just makes it so that its never an issue.

Don't ask, don't have to tell... who gives a frak?

But ya know, that only works if it goes both ways - "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" for straights, too. Sorry, troops - no more dating, no more marriage while you're in the service. See, it IS an issue when you have a system set up to count people out based not on what they DO, but on what they DON'T do. Straight men and women in the military aren't asked to not have a personal life while they serve their country; they're not even asked to be all that discreet about it. But gays MUST NOT have a personal life, because if it got out that they are what they are, they're kicked out of the service, period. It's not even a "separate but equal" situation - it's an insistence that one group of people deny and/or lie about who they really are, because others might be uncomfortable with the truth.

Mike

"It was already blue when we got here!"

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 4:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Also, as a side note...

Don't, don't, EVER, E V E R, call being gay the new black.

BAD mistake.

How so? Both are groups of people who have been ostracized and had laws passed to specifically TAKE AWAY rights from them. Both are groups of people whose biggest "crime" was to be born the way they are. Or do you think being black is a lifestyle choice?

And if you're one of those who think that being gay is a choice, can I ask when you chose to be straight? I mean, apparently, at some point, you were equally attracted to men and women, so you had to make a conscious choice to like women, right? Isn't that pretty much what you think gays are doing?

Mike

"It was already blue when we got here!"

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 4:24 PM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Its a cultural thing.

Like how a Hispanic guy can dress like the biggest fruit in the world, swish about all over the place, but still be considered machismo.

Being called gay, in many different cultures, is the worst kind of insult.

You may feel that being gay is the new black... but its a pretty horrible, stab/shoot worthy insult.

Just be careful about who you say that to, is all I'm saying.

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Friday, September 11, 2009 7:03 PM