Serena Williams- Giant crybaby by SignyM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Wulf, I promise not to bite, but you've thrown out "hope" and change" and "freedom" so much you're beginning to sound like Obama. So what I'd REALLY like from you- all snark aside- is some kind of description of what you mean. What are you against? What are you for? What does your ideal society look like? 'Cause from THIS angle, it looks like a bunch of people with guns running around shouting I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!. Clarify, please.

ETA: I see we xposted. I'm on lunch break. Hope to hear from you later.

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Wednesday, September 16, 2009 9:28 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Sig.

Then I challenge you. Start a thread where I can speak my piece.

Do it. I'll tell you what I believe. I'll show you and everyone else what I think we can do.

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Wednesday, September 16, 2009 9:32 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
"Wulf, I can accept that you're angry but don't hate. But I would propose that a lot of what you say applies to you, as well."

Yes, and?

My anger doesn't cloud my judgment as so many here, and as so many here have claimed against me.

Rather it fuels me, drives me, forces me to work for change. REAL change.

The kind that sets men free, that doesn't tie them back down to tyranny and slavery.

No "and", just a statement. But I, too, would like to read a serious definition of what you mean by "real change" and what you would expect it to accomplish. Would clarify some things, anyway.

I think your anger DOES cloud your judgment, definitely, but I would agree that maybe not as much as what others claim against you. Most of what I see in response to your posts either IS personal or has some personal aspects referring to things they feel other than what you specifically write to which they are responding (convoluted sentence, sorry).

I'd rather know you as you write now, but I still admit to confusion; some days you post things I find thoughtful and worthy of debate, other days you post weird trash that makes no sense. I'd like to understand what that is, but I probably never will.

How exactly do you work to set men free? I'd like to hear that...what do you do, precisely?

Boy, for a guy who's "got a J-O-B", you spend an amazing amount of time here. Back when I could work, I'd never have been able to keep up here the way you do. Slow "J-O-B", is it? Just curious.

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

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Wednesday, September 16, 2009 12:01 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
So, Wulfie - I'm still waiting. What was it, specifically, that made you think "ghetto" about THESE particular people? What was it, if NOT their skin color, that made your mind jump to the "ghetto" reference?

I'm going to stick my neck out and defend Wulf - 'hot ghetto mess' as a term could be interpreted as referring to class, and aspects of black culture, and not black people in general. Just like calling Britney Spears' family 'white trash' or whatever - not a racist slur in my book.

And it's why you get a lot of middle class blacks who come out with similar slightly uncomfortable and un-PC comments about black (ghetto) culture - I heard one not long ago (and these people can't be called racist).

It's funny though, when I first saw the title of this thread I thought 'Wulf's going to have something to say about this', and sure enough... He does seem to be on a mission of some sort, to point out the ugliness of ghetto culture whenever he can. Which is fair enough as far as I'm concerned, he's got a point, and he's not hating all blacks indiscriminately as far as I can see. If you other guys want to see some real racist remarks then for example go and have a look at some of the comments on youtube.

Heads should roll

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Wednesday, September 16, 2009 12:40 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
Not everyone can be saved, but SOME CAN BE. However, some are simply evil and worthless. Its a sad fact of life. There are good people, and bad. Ying and Yang.

Some human beings are beyond redemption, more like animals than people. I don't especially plead sympathy or understanding for them, but I do regret that they turned out that way.

I see it as squandered human potential - you on the other hand Wulf, think that some people are simply born that way, as much lesser human beings...?

Heads should roll

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Wednesday, September 16, 2009 12:50 PM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:

"I would rather die fighting, than live on my knees."

Who are you quoting there?

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Wednesday, September 16, 2009 1:00 PM

What I'm trying to get at - and the ONE question that Wulfie seems to keep running away from - is WHY DOES HE *ASSUME* THAT THESE PARTICULAR BLACK PEOPLE ARE "GHETTO"? I mean, he's insistent that it's not "race", so I take that to mean that it's not because they're black. So why call them "ghetto", if it's not about skin color?

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Wednesday, September 16, 2009 1:57 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Hmm, I guess ghetto culture has its own flavour, and a lot of black people who aren't really 'ghetto' identify with elements of it, and so can still exhibit ghetto culture. One aspect I would say is an attitude of anger and aggresion, and sense of being persecuted - all exhibited by kanye and serena one could say.

As for whether there are other ways of labelling their behaviour that are human-specific and not race/culture specific - one could label serena as frustrated, spoilt sportsperson like Mcenroe or whatever. Kanye though, to me came across as typical, angry and oversensitive-to-discrimination black man. So wulf was perhaps a bit unfair on serena, but I thought his main point might've been to bring up kanye's actions, and he used serena's vaguely comparible outburst to get there.

Heads should roll

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Wednesday, September 16, 2009 5:51 PM

"Everyone has a fair opportunity for an education, and career. There is no denial just those who choose to succeed, or to fail."

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
You really BELIEVE this?? I find that amazing, in this day and age. It can only be ignorance which claims that everyone has a fair opportunity in America today, especially in the ghetto. You truly believe "opportunity" is equally available to all, and that's all it takes? Wow.

Yes, I believe it, because I've seen it happen twice. Two of my friends(both minorities, both very low income households) worked crappy jobs and struggled paying college tuitions to get a better career. One is an accountant, and making a great annual salary.
The other has been a middle school teacher for nearly 5 years.

I'm puzzled as to what forces you think are keeping people chained down. If there is the will to further your education, and get a degree in the field of your choosing it will happen. So yes, I guess the drive to better ones self is all it takes.

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Wednesday, September 16, 2009 5:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Is this economy geared for EVERYONE to succeed, or are its rewards strictly limited to only a few, no matter how deserving the remainder may be ?

It's called relocation. Send out 150 resumes(most can be done online) in your specified field. You will get enough replies and phone interviews to land you a job. You may have to move to a different state, but you will end up with a career.

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Thursday, September 17, 2009 5:02 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Oppyh- You are so blind it's.... wow. All I can say is... wow. And you haven't answered my question. Or Rue's either, for that matter.

To re-state Rue's: IF everyone gets a PhD, will there be PhD jobs available for everyone?

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Thursday, September 17, 2009 6:00 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

BTW, in point of fact Serena AND Venus both grew up in the 'hood until they were 10 and 11 respectively: the mean streets of the City of Compton, not very far from where I live. Their mom- Oracene - did her best to isolate them from the streets. She home schooled all five of her children and raised them as Jehova's Witnesses. And the Williams sisters DID indeed meet racism on their way up to the top, and still encounter it today.

That's part of the problem of being black in America: because no matter HOW GOOD you are- whether you're a world ranking tennis player or the President of the United States or a respected scholar or highly-paid movie star- someone will always throw your blackness in your face. And when that happens, it is absolutely correct to throw it back.

There is an interesting parallel to prejudice against women (which BTW Wulf also amply demonstrates. In his view, women should be barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen. In his view, that whole push for "equality" was extremely misguided.). Because it is SO pervasive- just like prejudice against blacks- a large part of it is invisible to everyone, even the victims. The only people who have personal insight into it are the people who have lived as both. And, boy, do they have stories to tell!

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Thursday, September 17, 2009 7:15 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"which BTW Wulf also amply demonstrates. In his view, women should be barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen."

NEVER said that. Nor do I believe it.

Now Sig, let me ask you then... what is wrong with a woman who CHOOSES to be "barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen"?

If thats her choice, free from coercion mind... just cause YOU wouldn't choose it, doesn't make your choice any better.

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Thursday, September 17, 2009 7:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Oppyh- You are so blind it's.... wow. All I can say is... wow. And you haven't answered my question. Or Rue's either, for that matter.

To re-state Rue's: IF everyone gets a PhD, will there be PhD jobs available for everyone?

Well, the "if everyone gets a PhD" question is just stupid because that will never happen. If everyone on the planet turned gay would our species die out within a hundred years? That's the type of nonsensical question that is being posed here. But to entertain you, the answer to Rue's question ummm......NO. I don't think 6 billion people are all going for a PhD. And if they did, they would have jobs, but there would be a hell of a lot of overqualified workers in the world. Wow, I'm so blind, and I can still answer absurdly hypothetical questions.

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Thursday, September 17, 2009 1:48 PM

Quote:

BTW, in point of fact Serena AND Venus both grew up in the 'hood until they were 10 and 11 respectively: the mean streets of the City of Compton, not very far from where I live. Their mom- Oracene - did her best to isolate them from the streets. She home schooled all five of her children and raised them as Jehova's Witnesses. And the Williams sisters DID indeed meet racism on their way up to the top, and still encounter it today.

Actually, Signy, I did know that, which is why I asked earlier WHY Wulfie considered them "ghetto", and if he considered OTHER people who lived in Compton "ghetto", or just the black ones. Both George Bushes (yup, they lived in Compton when Dubya was a child), General Omar Bradley, Kevin Costner, and others I listed all lived there for some time. The Williams sisters were born in Saginaw, Michigan, and moved to Compton when Serena was around three, I believe. And they moved to West Palm Beach, Florida when she was nine. So I guess six years in Compton makes a black person "ghetto" to the core...

And oddly enough, I've been to Compton, and never had a problem. Even walked through it at 2am on a Saturday. Color me crazy, but I wasn't harassed, mugged, shot, yelled at, chased, sold crack to, or anything. A couple kids said "Whassup" as I passed them on the sidewalk, but that was the totality of my horrific encounters with "ghetto" gangs of Compton.

Maybe I'm so "ghetto" I just can't see it anymore... [shrugs].

Mike

Old friend charity
Cruel twisted smile
And the smile signals emptiness
For me
Starless and Bible black

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Thursday, September 17, 2009 3:58 PM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:
Mike said this:
Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
"I would rather die fighting, than live on my knees."

Who are you quoting there?

Emiliano Zapata. Do I win an oil company?
Another Kropotkinite. I wonder if Wulf got there from here, or didn't know.

Zapata died, and later Bush Sr. stole his skull as part of an asinine ritual that made him the first pencil pusher to make it to the head of the clandestine virginian conspiracy. He also had a swamp named after him in Cuba.

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Thursday, September 17, 2009 5:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Quote:
Mike said this:
Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
"I would rather die fighting, than live on my knees."

Who are you quoting there?

Emiliano Zapata. Do I win an oil company?
Another Kropotkinite. I wonder if Wulf got there from here, or didn't know.

Zapata died, and later Bush Sr. stole his skull as part of an asinine ritual that made him the first pencil pusher to make it to the head of the clandestine virginian conspiracy. He also had a swamp named after him in Cuba.

Sorry, but if Wulfie's quoting Zapata, he's doing it wrong. The way Wulfie "quoted" him, it might as well say, "I would rather die fighting, than eating pancakes." Makes as much sense that way.

The quote you're looking for is, "I'd rather die standing than live on my knees." It's the juxtaposition of standing to kneeling that makes the quote memorable.

Seems to me if you're going to try to choose someone's words to live by, you could at least get the words right, Wulf. It's kind of like quoting those famous words of Patrick Henry: "Give me liberty, or give me something else."

And no, Dream, you don't win an oil company. Heck, all I got was a leaky popsicle!

Mike

Old friend charity
Cruel twisted smile
And the smile signals emptiness
For me
Starless and Bible black

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Thursday, September 17, 2009 6:51 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Oppyh:

Quote:
Well, the "if everyone gets a PhD" question is just stupid because that will never happen.... if they did, they would have jobs, but there would be a hell of a lot of overqualified workers in the world.

So the "answer" to sub-minimal jobs is NOT "get an education"? Because while it works for SOME people, if EVERYBODY tried it it wouldn't work.

So, to my question: When people are starving and dying for lack of clean water, need houses and safety and medical care and education, when forests need to be replanted and wetlands restored, green energy needs to be developed and forests thinned... there are so many useful things to do, why do we have unemployment?

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Friday, September 18, 2009 3:35 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Oh yeah, Mike. I forgot you lived in a 'hood for a long time. There's a behavior that one adopts, I think, that says I belong here.

OTOH, there's a funny thing abut Compton (and LA ghettos in general): they look surprisingly middle-class. It's all good- until suddenly it's not all good. And "belonging" doesn't protect you: Did you know that Serena and Venus' older sister Yetunde, was shot and killed in Compton?

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Friday, September 18, 2009 8:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
So the "answer" to sub-minimal jobs is NOT "get an education"? Because while it works for SOME people, if EVERYBODY tried it it wouldn't work

If EVERYBODY in the world world became auto mechanics....WOULD THERE BE ENOUGH JOBS FOR THEM???????? No. Hey, you can continue to ask that same question until the end of time, and the answer will always be no. No, because it never will happen, and no because it's a very, very stupid question.

Quote:
So, to my question: When people are starving and dying for lack of clean water, need houses and safety and medical care and education, when forests need to be replanted and wetlands restored, green energy needs to be developed and forests thinned... there are so many useful things to do, why do we have unemployment?

At least your question makes sense.

Let me put it this way:
For all our accumulated knowledge, the people of earth are very dim-witted. That's right, practically dumb.
We won't deal with the problems you mentioned until after it is far too late to fix them. So in theory, we could have a work force of over a million rectifying the rape, and pillaging of our beautiful planet. But we wont do that.
Sorry to say, we are on the road to extinction. The minority of cautionary advise(you, and I) try to give waving our arms, and putting up red flags will be laughed at and ignored by the big corporations. So when the world population is at 2 million people, and the rich greedy types are puking their guts out and scratching their heads as to what went wrong....one of them will have the audacity to state "what could we have done to prevent this?"

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Friday, September 18, 2009 9:59 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

My question was hypothetical. You could substitute and kind of word you want, even a made up one: "ghobydony". But, while you are arguing, you actually agree with me - there are not enough good jobs for everybody. Even though there are more than enough people who are qualified, there aren't enough good jobs for them.

I was reading an article in CNN regarding what do you do when you are qualified, but not hired ? The head hunter who wrote the article said THERE ARE ABOUT 100 QUALIFIED PEOPLE FOR EVERY JOB.

Obviously - I think - simply being qualified is not enough to better your life. Because a nearly everyone will NOT make it, or at least not be rewarded with a job that matches their qualifications. There will only be a lucky few.

This economy has a lot of people who are expendable. The point - still - holds: there is a certain percentage of people who are throwaways.

Not everyone will make it, and it doesn't matter what their qualifications are.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, September 18, 2009 12:38 PM