Bring it on. by Wulfenstar

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Ahem ...

I think this is where you post where you stand.

***************************************************************

ETA: "Ask your questions. Take your answers. Don't hang around waiting for more." NOW the post makes more sense !

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Thursday, October 1, 2009 10:47 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Yep

ETA: I said that last part to try and divert the inevitable thread hijack.

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Thursday, October 1, 2009 10:53 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
So, bring it on.

Didn't see you as the cheerleader type. Just remember to save some for nationals.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Thursday, October 1, 2009 11:05 AM

STORYMARK

Well, since in your last two "Ask me" threads you've dodged uncomfortable questions.... why should we bother?

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, October 1, 2009 11:11 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

So ask your questions.

Btw, its good to see the snarky comments, and from whom they are.

Saves me the time in the future of responding tot hem.

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Thursday, October 1, 2009 11:19 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
So ask your questions.

Btw, its good to see the snarky comments, and from whom they are.

Saves me the time in the future of responding tot hem.

Hell, you've never bothered to respond to them in the past, either.

How many of these "This I believe" threads are you going to start, or ask to have started for you, and yet you never answer the tough questions.

You've said you feared having a black President, but you've never once made even the slightest effort to explain WHY you feared a BLACK President - yet you claim you're NOT a racist.

What I've tried to ask you, repeatedly, is "Why do you think that?" And when I ask, you slip out and disappear, and then start dropping YouTube clips of crap movies into every other thread.

Mike

The percentage you're paying is too high-priced
While you're living beyond all your means;
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams

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Thursday, October 1, 2009 11:22 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Some have occasionally pointed out that the sad state of our country's leadership is a direct result of majority vote aka democracy in action.

You have occasionally indicated a desire for some kind of revolutionary action against the powers that be.

How do you reconcile the desire to force change with the knowledge that our situation is the will of the majority?

Thank you for your time,

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Thursday, October 1, 2009 12:11 PM

DEADLOCKVICTIM

..no snark....no comment.... live and let live

fade to black

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Thursday, October 1, 2009 12:13 PM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
So ask your questions.

Btw, its good to see the snarky comments, and from whom they are.

Saves me the time in the future of responding tot hem.

I did before, several times, in two seperate threads, and you didn't have the courage to answer.

So, due to that, you are no longer worth anything BUT snark.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, October 1, 2009 12:53 PM

SIMONWHO

Okay, here's a question: do you wish Obama to be assassinated?

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Thursday, October 1, 2009 12:57 PM

TRAVELER

Quote:
Originally posted by deadlockvictim:

..no snark....no comment.... live and let live

I feel as deadlockvictim feels. I am not your judge. I have my own rivers to cross and you have yours. We may find ourselves helping each other to cross some of the same rivers.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Thursday, October 1, 2009 4:57 PM

JKIDDO

Um, Wulf... why do you need US to jump-start your manifesto???

Last time we were at this point, I started a thread for you, asking you what you believed. You said you believed in freedom. I asked you to define freedom, and you said it was where people were free.

And it went downhill from there. Finally, I tried "Let's see what you're against and work backward from there" and got no response. IN ANOTHER thread, I asked you if you were against a whole seemingly unrelated laundry list (hippies, taxes, government, etc.) and you said "Yes, and more" but failed to elucidate what that "more" was, or what they might possibly have in common. In yet ANOTHER thread, I asked you to describe what YOU think "liberal hippies" believe in and what it leads to... but you never answered that question either.

If we don't understand you, it's not for lack of trying on OUR part. If you really want to be understood, I suggest you start communicating. In words.

The thread is yours.

On your mark.
Get set.
Go.

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Thursday, October 1, 2009 5:02 PM

DREAMTROVE

You bait, and bait, and frankly, I'm surprised that anyone bites.

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Thursday, October 1, 2009 5:14 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
You bait, and bait, and frankly, I'm surprised that anyone bites.

I'm not. For all his faults, for all the shit I give him, I get that Wulf is trying to open his mind. It's damned slow to happen sometimes, but he's TRYING. If nothing else, I can respect that fact.

Mike

The percentage you're paying is too high-priced
While you're living beyond all your means;
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams

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Thursday, October 1, 2009 8:08 PM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:

I'm not. For all his faults, for all the shit I give him, I get that Wulf is trying to open his mind. It's damned slow to happen sometimes, but he's TRYING. If nothing else, I can respect that fact.

I agree. I only give him trouble over two things:

1. when he posts something stupid, like portrayal of all black neighborhoods as hellholes, etc.

2. For just beating the same dead horses over and over again.

I think it's ironic that his defenders are liberals... Wulf is not completely off my sockpuppet suspect list, as these bait posts do serve a liberal agenda

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Thursday, October 1, 2009 8:27 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Your answers please:

1. 9/11 Inside Job?

2. JFK Assassination Inside Job?

3. Israeli Attack on USS Liberty Inside Job?

4. Hussein Obama Soetoro Just Another Illegal Alien?

"If you stand for nothing, you'll fall for anything."
-Famous Dead Guy

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Thursday, October 1, 2009 9:11 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Side note:

Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:

"If you stand for nothing, you'll fall for anything."
-Famous Dead Guy

Wasn't that Aaron Tippin? He didn't die, did he?

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Friday, October 2, 2009 3:38 AM

DREAMTROVE

1. yes
2. yes
3. nah, it was probably an error
4. nah, he's just a guy

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Friday, October 2, 2009 6:45 AM

STORYMARK

What... Wulfy has vanished from the thread? Surely not....

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, October 2, 2009 7:46 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"How do you reconcile the desire to force change with the knowledge that our situation is the will of the majority?"

I would argue that the will of the majority is misinformed, and cannot see where, in the future, their decisions will take them.

That is a lack of forward thinking.

Folks who will give up essential liberties, to either feel safer, or to line their pockets NOW... are badly informed, and lack depth to their views.

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Friday, October 2, 2009 7:50 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

SimonWho wrote:
Thursday, October 01, 2009 12:53
Okay, here's a question: do you wish Obama to be assassinated?

No. I do NOT wish to see any President assassinated.

HOWEVER. Should a President, or their cabinet, the House or the Senate, turn into a tyranny (being defined here as : a form of government in which the ruler is an absolute dictator (not restricted by a constitution or laws or opposition etc), then they are no longer a lawful, or rightful representative of the people. And considering the power that they may posses, are a threat and a danger to the citizenship at hand, and must be (by force if necessary) removed from power.

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Friday, October 2, 2009 7:52 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"piratenews wrote:
Thursday, October 01, 2009 20:27
Your answers please:

1. 9/11 Inside Job?

2. JFK Assassination Inside Job?

3. Israeli Attack on USS Liberty Inside Job?

4. Hussein Obama Soetoro Just Another Illegal Alien?"

For fun...

1. No
2. Yes
3. Depends on who you mean by "insiders".
4. Not sure at this point.

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Friday, October 2, 2009 7:57 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

dreamtrove wrote:

"1. when he posts something stupid, like portrayal of all black neighborhoods as hellholes, etc."

This isn't a question but I'll respond.

It has been my experience that most black neighborhoods are "hellholes". THIS MAY BE, because of the socio-economic situation of "blacks" in our country. I.E. POOR.

Moreso, I have been in hispanic and asian communities which have been "poor" and seen much of the same behavior.

I freely admit that its something which I need to think more on.

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Friday, October 2, 2009 7:58 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello Wulf,

It sounds as if you are saying that there are times when the will of the majority must be contradicted, either due to their short-sightedness, ignorance, or greed. And that moving against the will of the majority may be the only way to save them from themselves.

Is this your position?

Thanks for your time,

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, October 2, 2009 8:03 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Kwicko wrote:
You've said you feared having a black President, but you've never once made even the slightest effort to explain WHY you feared a BLACK President - yet you claim you're NOT a racist."

My experience(s) have clouded my judgment and made me "prejudiced" (here defined as: Judgments of future events based on preceding, similar, incidents.)

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Friday, October 2, 2009 8:10 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

AnthonyT wrote:

"It sounds as if you are saying that there are times when the will of the majority must be contradicted, either due to their short-sightedness, ignorance, or greed. And that moving against the will of the majority may be the only way to save them from themselves.

Is this your position?"

Yes, no and maybe.

Yes: There have been many times in history where great wrongs were applied by the majority of the people. (Slavery, the Holocaust, Manifest Destiny) And in these cases, the majority WERE wrong.

I would add any time that the majority wish to create laws which stifle free will, and the application thereof.

No: The majority rules. I have to believe that people are inherently good, and that when there is a majority opinion, it will likewise be good.

Maybe: The majority must not forget that they are individuals, first. And that whatever rule they make MUST free the individual, not limit them.

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Friday, October 2, 2009 8:25 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Thank you for your candor, Wulf. This post is not a question, but merely commentary in response to your answers.

In fact, you are correct in pointing out that there are times when the majority should be opposed. We can all remember incidents where the mobs descended unhappily on innocents.

By the same token, you are surely aware that a position of opposition to the majority can make people uncomfortable. As a self-admitted man of prejudice and imperfect experience (and this is something all humans can claim as a fault to one degree or another) there is a danger that you may become the very villain you seek to war against.

As a person who feels that it is sometimes right to force the majority to behave as you wish, you should constantly be skeptical of yourself. If you fear no man on Earth, at least fear your reflection in the mirror. Every time you make a choice that affects anyone other than yourself, you should be wary. Analyze all the ramifications. Wonder in horror every day, watchful for the signs, lest you become the next monster of men.

When people recoil from you in disgust, fear, and anger- do not hold negative feelings towards them. A righteous dictator and a despot both wear the same clothes.

And at times, the one becomes the other.

Walk carefully, brother.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, October 2, 2009 8:25 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Storymark wrote:

"What... Wulfy has vanished from the thread? Surely not.... "

Not a question, but I'll answer.

You guys do realize Im in a different time zone than most here, right? I also have a job, a family, and the responsibilities that come with both.

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Friday, October 2, 2009 8:31 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"I would argue that the will of the majority is misinformed, and cannot see where, in the future, their decisions will take them."

Do you see this as justification for forcing the will of a minority on the majority ?

ETA: I see this was addressed already.

"In fact, you are correct in pointing out that there are times when the majority should be opposed."

Sometimes it is the majority, and sometimes it is a mob. And sometimes it is a system with a relatively few enforcers.

The distinction, I believe is to see if the majority have really signed on to the system; if they are just going along b/c 1) it is easier and/ or 2) they don't want repercussions; or if indeed it is hysteria/ a mob, which quickly gains a fever pitch, without deliberative process.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, October 2, 2009 8:35 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

AnthonyT wrote: "By the same token, you are surely aware that a position of opposition to the majority can make people uncomfortable."

Have had that lesson pounded into my skull everyday that I have been here.

"there is a danger that you may become the very villain you seek to war against"

Which is why I AM here. I see, from the posts here, some of the most free thinking individuals I've ever come across (with a few exceptions of course).

"Wonder in horror every day, watchful for the signs, lest you become the next monster of men"

The battle I fight, everyday I wake up.

"When people recoil from you in disgust, fear, and anger- do not hold negative feelings towards them. A righteous dictator and a despot both wear the same clothes. "

Im not sure I understand your meaning. No, I don't hate those who disagree with me... but I wish to be neither a dictator or a despot.

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Friday, October 2, 2009 8:38 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

rue wrote: ""I would argue that the will of the majority is misinformed, and cannot see where, in the future, their decisions will take them."

Do you see this as justification for forcing the will of a minority on the majority ?"

Tho it is done everyday in our home of America... No, I do not.

Unless, it impacts the rights of the individual.

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Friday, October 2, 2009 8:41 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Thank you for your reply. I should have read further before I posted, since you did address the essence of my question.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, October 2, 2009 8:46 AM

Wulf, if you were in Mal's place, would YOU have kicked Crow into the port intake?

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, October 2, 2009 8:47 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

chrisisall wrote:
"Wulf, if you were in Mal's place, would YOU have kicked Crow into the port intake?"

Yes.

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Friday, October 2, 2009 8:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
chrisisall wrote:
"Wulf, if you were in Mal's place, would YOU have kicked Crow into the port intake?"

Yes.

So would I.

Only, I would have said, "Sorry."

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, October 2, 2009 8:54 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

If after a reasonable talk, whereby I offered a reasonable, fair deal, someone said they would kill my family, no matter what.

Yes.

I would put them through the engine.

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Friday, October 2, 2009 8:55 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Well aware, Wulf - just, roll with it, when you can, is what we're asking, don't try to argue, or convince, just open your stream of consciousness and say it like you feel, wrong or right, in YOUR words, instead of reaching for someone elses cause they match up close and are more articulate than you are about it.

See, that's a bad habit - you've decided you don't like the brands of koolaid bein served, and intellectually, you get the idea of brewing your own, but habit keeps you reaching, and you are, as anyone is, concerned about looking the fool, or like a dunce...

But you know what, revel in that, because the *purpose* of the court jester was to speak truth to power that no one else dared, even if they DID sound like an idiot, and fools have their own wisdom, don't you know.

So just open your heart and let it fly.
Are some folk gonna nitpick and throw it back in your face, sure will - but don't ya know, text is a lot easier to clean off than rotten fruit, so lets hear it for technology, right ?

Seriously though, folks wanna hear it, in your own words, so they can find a way to connect with you, as you say, most folk are basically decent.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Friday, October 2, 2009 8:56 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"Unless, it impacts the rights of the individual."

Hello,

I should point out that I, and most rational humans, hold a similar viewpoint. I can think of few people who would choose to cheer on the mob as the mob moves to lynch the minority. But such situations are easy to identify.

On the issue of public safety or freedom of speech, things become more muddled. Speed limits and FCC regulation over usable radio frequencies are two gray areas.

In the case of a speed limit, it should be known that most roads are built and banked (leaned) in such a way as to accommodate a particular vehicle speed. Vehicles exceeding this speed are in danger of careening off the road or highway. If the damage from such an incident was entirely limited to the individual, then we should all be happy with 'speed advisories.' However, an out-of-control vehicle can collide with other vehicles, create a road hazard, destroy public property, and require great expense and time to remove and clean up after.

As a result, speed limits become law. Now we have a law that infringes on the rights of the individual, for the benefit of the public. The threat of enforcement keeps many drivers within the safe limits of the road's design. It also becomes a platform for abuse by the local authority. There is no easy answer to this problem.

FCC regulation is even more contentious. They designate which frequencies can be used by whom and in what strength. This is a limit on free speech, even if they don't regulate content. After all, if you wish to transmit your words to China from your back yard, you should be free to do so. However, if radio frequencies are not regulated, two things can happen. First, excessive signal strength can negatively impact nearby receivers who may not even be on your frequency. Second, overlapping transmissions on the same frequency can render all communication into gibberish. So there is a law and a regulating agency. And hence, individual freedom is negatively impacted. And the regulating agency becomes another platform for the abuse of authority.

Here are two situations lacking an easy fix. There are good reasons for the laws and regulating agencies to exist, even though they step on personal freedoms. There is also great potential for regulatory abuse.

However, if you wake up one morning, declare f*ck the FCC, and begin transmitting your pirate radio station... And I can't get my favorite station on my radio as a result of interference, then I will be very unhappy with your unilateral decision to ignore the majority will on this issue.

By the same token, if you drive your vehicle 200 miles per hour in a 55 mile per hour zone, lose control, fly off the highway, and crash your car into the doughnut shop where I am buying my morning coffee... I may have cause to rebuke your unilateral decision to ignore majority will.

Not everything is cut and dried. And people who listen to someone advocate personal freedom above all other concerns become rightfully worried about what that could mean.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, October 2, 2009 8:56 AM

What Wulf? You gotta problem with fixated psychos or something??? Not too PC, my man.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, October 2, 2009 9:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Vehicles exceeding this speed are in danger of careening off the road or highway.
There is no easy answer to this problem.

There sure as heck is, just give peeps a closed-road test on a twisty, wet mountain road with occasional obsticals simulating stalled cars or idiot pedestrians, and whatever top speed they can achieve without crashing is what the can be certified to drive.
Jeeze Louise!

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, October 2, 2009 9:06 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

AnthonyT wrote:
By the same token, if you drive your vehicle 200 miles per hour in a 55 mile per hour zone, lose control, fly off the highway, and crash your car into the doughnut shop where I am buying my morning coffee... I may have cause to rebuke your unilateral decision to ignore majority will."

True. But.

If a road can handle a car going 95 mph... then why is the speed limit set at 30?

Money. Plain and simple. And we allow it.

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Friday, October 2, 2009 9:07 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

chrisisall wrote:
"There sure as heck is, just give peeps a closed-road test on a twisty, wet mountain road with occasional obsticals simulating stalled cars or idiot pedestrians, and whatever top speed they can achieve without crashing is what the can be certified to drive.
Jeeze Louise!"

There is only room in this thread for one fool, and thats me, Chris.

Please, no threadjacking, ok?

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Friday, October 2, 2009 9:09 AM

As I am your sockpuppet, Wulf, I will comply.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, October 2, 2009 9:11 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Getting back to the individual and the majority -

This will be a long, rambling semi-question, since I know of no other way to ask it except by example.

Do you remember the Milgram experiment and the Stanford prison experiment ? They were an illustration of how either following authority, or being an authority, corrodes individual behavior. And then there was the case of Kitty Genovese, which led to studies on the 'bystander effect' or 'diffusion of responsibility'. (Though, it turns out that people do what they see other people doing, either passing-by OR helping.) And then there is the issue of the mob, or social hysteria (the Red Scare).

People are in general a social species - and in groups, physical or organizational, they take their cues from those around them. It is unnatural to expect people to not do this. But due to the above cases, I try to always check my conscience, and to not rely on the authority/ actions of others to suggest what I should do. In other words, I try to put my individuality 'above' the will of the majority.

Having said that, I don't think I would attempt to FORCE my will on another (no matter how wrong I think they are

).

So my question is - where do you see yourself on this spectrum ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, October 2, 2009 9:15 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"True. But.

If a road can handle a car going 95 mph... then why is the speed limit set at 30?

Money. Plain and simple. And we allow it."

Hello,

Already you reveal much.

You *do* wish to limit personal freedom. You simply wish to move the line of demarcation.

And so now your position can be restated with caveats.

"So long as it infringes on personal freedom as little as is practical."

Or something along those lines.

Which leads someone to ask, "What is practical? Where is the line between safety and freedom? Or Between your freedom and mine?"

And then the conversations become really juicy and productive.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, October 2, 2009 9:17 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

rue wrote: So my question is - where do you see yourself on this spectrum ?

It depends on the situation and what I am looking at.

Would I force my will on someone else?

Well, if someone has a gun pointed at their head... I would defiantly force my "will" on them, by taking their gun. Even if it got me shot in the process.

If someone is doing something that will endanger me, or my family, yes.... I will force my "will" on them and remove the threat.

Again, it depends on the situation.

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Friday, October 2, 2009 9:20 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

AnthonyT wrote:
"And then the conversations become really juicy and productive."

Another way of putting it is... "Where does your freedom end, and mine begin"?

I don't have an answer.

ETA:Because there are so many people, how DO you answer that question?

Other than say, my freedom ends when I say it does?

But, I can say, that an outside body cannot decide.

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Friday, October 2, 2009 9:32 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"But, I can say, that an outside body cannot decide."

Hello,

What is an outside body?

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, October 2, 2009 9:32 AM