REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Individual Rights vs. Collective Rights

POSTED BY: UNABASHEDVIXEN
UPDATED: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 11:05
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Saturday, October 3, 2009 3:29 PM

DMAANLILEILTT


no, its that my damn computer keeps posting something that i originally posted months ago and i cant make it stop

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Saturday, October 3, 2009 3:37 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by dmaanlileiltt:
i find what piratenews said to be really far from the truth. the commonwealth of nations is a group that aims to promote democracy, human rights, individual liberty and not the sort of things you would associate with nazism or any types of fascism



Yeah, that 19-year Iraq War thing is going so well.

Afghan War too, with heroin production up 10,000%.

Unprovoked British RAF raid on Libya in 1986 cost US taxpayers $300-million in warcrime reparations to Libya in 2008.

South Africa went well, with slavery, er, apartheid by Cecil Rhoads Diamond Scholar.

Rhodesia too (aka Zimbabwe's 10-quadrillion % inflation in 2009).

India had slavery and genocide by the British Empire before, during and after Ghandi. Another big opium producer for the British Opium Wars on China.

Pakistan is doing so well these days, with Brit SAS and US robots massacreing civilians daily.

Brit queen termination of Canadian Parliament is good for democracy. Show them uppity slaves who's BO$$ Hog.

How many of his wives' heads did British King Henry the 8th chop off?

Never mind that pesky Constitutionally guaranteed right to travel, without which we all DIE, that existed worldwide for 1,000s of years (billions of years), until the British Communist Manifesto was adopted by USA in the 1930s.
http://piratenews-tv.blogspot.com/2009/03/constitutional-right-to-trav
el-without.html




"Government control of communications and transportation."
-Communist Manifesto, 6th Plank, written by Masonic jew Karl Marx in London England

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Saturday, October 3, 2009 4:34 PM

DREAMTROVE


The swastika is a holy symbol in several Indian religions, and has been worn by the people of India for 4500 years. It's a symbol of Aryan faith, Aryan is a Indian word as well, and an Indian culture. The Germans are not Aryans, and never were, and there are today, and have always been more bearers of the swastika in India than there every were Nazis. Or Germans for that matter.

The reason for the theft is obvious. The Nazis were arch-manipulators. The concept of National-Socialism was to displace the Nationalists who were splitting the left vote, as the Nationalists were protectionists, also opposed to open trade during a time when the German economy was being crushed. The other left opposition was the Communists, which is one reason the Nazis killed them. All of this did not help them win any elections.

The adoption of the word Aryan and the swastika, particularly the Tamil swastika, was a deliberate attempt to stir up trouble in India and foment a revolution against the British, which it did, but too late for the Nazis to take any advantage of it. Curiously, despite the adoption of a skewed swastika, the Tamil are not Aryans, they're Dravidians, but the identity in the rest of India, esp. Rajasthan and Kashmir, as well as Pakistan, was definitely felt.

The desire of the Nazis was to add 500 million to their ranks. The effect was curious and unpredictable, they left behind an Aryan nationalism which created modern day India.

The best laid schemes of mice and men go way out of control.

Anyone who cares to, gnaw on this for a while:


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Saturday, October 3, 2009 6:39 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I think some of your conclusions about why the Nazis adopted the swastika is based more on personal opinion and pet theories. The symbol was adopted before the Germans were really concerned about manipulating India. They did adopt it from India, but I think not for the reasons you suppose.

I found this on wikipedia
_________________________________

When Hitler created a flag for the Nazi Party, he sought to incorporate both the swastika and "those revered colors expressive of our homage to the glorious past and which once brought so much honor to the German nation." (Red, white, and black were the colors of the flag of the old German Empire.) He also stated: "As National Socialists, we see our program in our flag. In red, we see the social idea of the movement; in white, the nationalistic idea; in the swastika, the mission of the struggle for the victory of the Aryan man, and, by the same token, the victory of the idea of creative work."[47]

The swastika was also understood as "the symbol of the creating, acting life" (das Symbol des schaffenden, wirkenden Lebens) and as "race emblem of Germanism" (Rasseabzeichen des Germanentums) [48].

The use of the swastika was associated by Nazi theorists with their conjecture of Aryan cultural descent of the German people. Following the Nordicist version of the Aryan invasion theory, the Nazis claimed that the early Aryans of India, from whose Vedic tradition the swastika sprang, were the prototypical white invaders. It was also widely believed that the Indian caste system had originated as a means to avoid racial mixing.[citation needed] The concept of racial purity was an ideology central to Nazism, though it is now considered unscientific. For Rosenberg, the Aryans of India were both a model to be imitated and a warning of the dangers of the spiritual and racial "confusion" that, he believed, arose from the close proximity of races. Thus, they saw fit to co-opt the sign as a symbol of the Aryan master race. The use of the swastika as a symbol of the Aryan race dates back to writings of Emile Burnouf. Following many other writers, the German nationalist poet Guido von List believed it to be a uniquely Aryan symbol. Before the Nazis, the swastika was already in use as a symbol of German völkisch nationalist movements (Völkische Bewegung). In Deutschland Erwache (ISBN 0-912138-69-6), Ulric of England (sic) says:

[…] what inspired Hitler to use the swastika as a symbol for the NSDAP was its use by the Thule Society (German: Thule-Gesellschaft) since there were many connections between them and the DAP … from 1919 until the summer of 1921 Hitler used the special Nationalsozialistische library of Dr. Friedrich Krohn, a very active member of the Thule-Gesellschaft … Dr. Krohn was also the dentist from Sternberg who was named by Hitler in Mein Kampf as the designer of a flag very similar to one that Hitler designed in 1920 … during the summer of 1920, the first party flag was shown at Lake Tegernsee … these home-made … early flags were not preserved, the Ortsgruppe München (Munich Local Group) flag was generally regarded as the first flag of the Party.

José Manuel Erbez says:

The first time the swastika was used with an "Aryan" meaning was on December 25, 1907, when the self-named Order of the New Templars, a secret society founded by [Adolf Joseph] Lanz von Liebenfels, hoisted at Werfenstein Castle (Austria) a yellow flag with a swastika and four fleurs-de-lys.[49]

__________________________________

--Anthony


"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Saturday, October 3, 2009 8:17 PM

DMAANLILEILTT


Quote:

Originally posted by piratenews:
Quote:

Originally posted by dmaanlileiltt:
i find what piratenews said to be really far from the truth. the commonwealth of nations is a group that aims to promote democracy, human rights, individual liberty and not the sort of things you would associate with nazism or any types of fascism



Yeah, that 19-year Iraq War thing is going so well.

Afghan War too, with heroin production up 10,000%.

Unprovoked British RAF raid on Libya in 1986 cost US taxpayers $300-million in warcrime reparations to Libya in 2008.

South Africa went well, with slavery, er, apartheid by Cecil Rhoads Diamond Scholar.

Rhodesia too (aka Zimbabwe's 10-quadrillion % inflation in 2009).

India had slavery and genocide by the British Empire before, during and after Ghandi. Another big opium producer for the British Opium Wars on China.

Pakistan is doing so well these days, with Brit SAS and US robots massacreing civilians daily.

Brit queen termination of Canadian Parliament is good for democracy. Show them uppity slaves who's BO$$ Hog.

How many of his wives' heads did British King Henry the 8th chop off?

Never mind that pesky Constitutionally guaranteed right to travel, without which we all DIE, that existed worldwide for 1,000s of years (billions of years), until the British Communist Manifesto was adopted by USA in the 1930s.
http://piratenews-tv.blogspot.com/2009/03/constitutional-right-to-trav
el-without.html




"Government control of communications and transportation."
-Communist Manifesto, 6th Plank, written by Masonic jew Karl Marx in London England



the afghan war and iraq wars were not started by the Commonwealth, but by a coalition of the willing.

the commonwealth didn't even exist before the Frist World War and slavery was abolished in the British Empire in 1833. also, South Africa was suspended by the Commonwealth because of aparthied.

Pakistan and Zimbabwe have both been suspended and Zimbabwe is no longer a memeber.

the US isnt a memeber of the Commonwealth.

that Canada is a member of the Commonwealth and has had its parliament suspended are unrelated. India, Samoa and Trinidad and Tobago are all memebers of the Commonwealth that are republics, so it is Canada's constitution that allows the queen to suspend parliament and not the Commonwealth.

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Sunday, October 4, 2009 3:11 AM

DREAMTROVE


Anthony,

Nah, it's actually tons of research. I worked for a guy who does this research for the EU.

The reason I posted the Theosophical society logo was an acknowledgement that there was Indian mysticism in Germany prior to the Nazis. But that didn't really have a lot to do with with the Nazis choice. The old iron cross would have struck a much stronger German nationalist chord than theosophy would have.

What It would be like a US president running on the platform of "Free Tibet." Sure, it would strike a chord with a very small number of Americans, but the only reason to do it would be to provoke war with China.

Connections between the Thule Society and Nazi Germany are tenuous at best, and this is an old conspiracy theory that really was made by people who hate Germans, rather than Nazis.

Theorizing about the origins of Nazi Germany is somewhat pointless, since the history of its creation is very well recorded. Nazi Germany was definitely built in a manipulative populist "whichever way the wind blows."

Speculations about cultural ties between Europe and India have been around for at least 150 years, and still go on, we still use terms like "Indo-european languages," but the consensus opinion, quite widely stated within Nazi Germany at the time was that there was really very little to support the notion, and that Germanic culture was largely Hellanic.

Sure. There are cultural and linguistic influences, because all of the above are descended from PIE, about 10,000 ya, but "Aryan" is a specific splinter of PIE around 4500-5000 ya. The world means "farmer" and comes from the PIE aryo, for area or acre. Celtic Culture is an Aryan culture. Germanic culture replaced Celtic culture in Germany much more recently.

This point being: This was all widely known in Germany at the time. Sure, there was a lunatic fringe, but people in the Nazi Hierarchy knew this was not the case, but thought the idea could be exploited to form an alliance with India.

Damn near worked, too. If anything, it helped keep enough ambiguity in the Indian position for the British to *not* be able to use India in WWII.

I'm far from alone in it, there's more evidence to suggest that Germany wanted to foment an Indian revolution against Britain than there is linking them to the Thule society.

Here's another thing, re:race. If the Nazis really thought that the Indians were of the same race as them, then why exterminate the Gypsies? People who did this sort of research in the 19th c. did a lot more thorough a job than the overwhelming majority of the more recent research I've read. I'm fairly certain that the Nazis knew these three things:

1. Gypsies were Aryans, descended from Indians.
2. Serbs were Germanic Teutons
3. Eastern European jews were the descendents of Khazar converts and people converted by those converts over the last 1000 years and had nothing to do with the international financial interests that had manipulated Germany in WWI.

I'm again, all the evidence leans to the conclusion that they knew these facts, and exterminated these populations *anyway*.

Just a guess here, perhaps this was about something else. I have a lot of theories on what, that make a lot more sense than this one. But I'm not really in any doubt on the "Aryan nation" thing. This is well travelled ground.

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Sunday, October 4, 2009 3:47 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Just a thought, but maybe the extermination of the gypsies was a further overture to India? After all, the gypsies are a "lost tribe" of India, who were expelled and lost their homeland; perhaps the Nazi pogrom against them was to curry (bad pun) favor with India, showing that the Nazis were willing to "expel" them from humanity, as well.

Just an idle thought...

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Sunday, October 4, 2009 5:17 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by UnabashedVixen:
If someone runs around painting swastikas on Jewish businesses, apart from that being graffiti, is it a crime? Should it be a crime?


Dunno about this whole rights topic, but that one is easy. "This business belongs to me, not to you. I choose not to have swastikas painted on it-- why is nobody else's concern-- if I wanted them, I coulda done them myself. Since I didn't want them , you have damaged my property, and that's a crime, at least a civil crime. You owe me repair and restitution. If your motive was intimidation, or to mark me for reprisal by others, those are additional crimes, which may need to be punished collectively. "
You understand, of course, that I use "you" in a general, hypothetical sense, and make no suggestion that UnabashedVixen would engage in such behaviour.

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Sunday, October 4, 2009 2:48 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


The first thing you need to do to mark a person or a people for extermination is to brand them as the 'other'.

Way back when in another thread (which I will not go digging for) was a mutli-viewpoint study of what happened in Rwanda - from 'how does this kind of thing happen' to 'how did YOU, Mr Anon, come to hack your neighbors whom you knew all your life, to death' ?

There is a process of identification, separation, and dehumanization at the start of genocide. I would argue that 'hate crimes' are part of the process.



***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Sunday, October 4, 2009 3:24 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Rights, right, rights.

Blah blah blah.

IMHO you may as well be talking about purple dragons, or angels dancing on the head of a pin. Just because you can form the words with your mouth doesn't make it a meaningful statement.

Rights are what we choose them to be. The British have more enumerated rights than we do (13), the Germans a LOT more (29), the Swedes fewer (9, I think). Why don't we have the right to food? To a productive job at reasonable pay? To clean water? To a direct vote? You keep talking about rights as if they were real. I assure you, they are not. They are protections afforded to you by the collective. Significantly, the rights that we have do not infringe on corporate "rights" one whit.

"By their deeds you shall know them."

If a particular "right" does not create the society you envision, that "right" should be amended. Treating rights as if they are "real" and inviolable is just... well, stupid.

Why don't we start out by thinking about the society that we want to create, and THEN devise a set of rights around that?



^ totally agree. perhaps I am YOUR sockpuppet

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Sunday, October 4, 2009 6:28 PM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:


The first thing you need to do to mark a person or a people for extermination is to brand them as the 'other'.

Way back when in another thread (which I will not go digging for) was a mutli-viewpoint study of what happened in Rwanda - from 'how does this kind of thing happen' to 'how did YOU, Mr Anon, come to hack your neighbors whom you knew all your life, to death' ?

There is a process of identification, separation, and dehumanization at the start of genocide. I would argue that 'hate crimes' are part of the process.



Kathy,

The only flaw in this argument is that it attacks itself and then commits suicide.

Rwanda was a disaster of integration. There was no separation, and the people were not one people who suddenly identified as other, they were two people. Rwanda was a Tutsi kingdom, from the Watusi of Upper Egypt, who came up the Nile River a few thousand years ago. They had a civilization and a set of values. Over time, Hutu populations migrated in. Then never thought that they were Tutsi, or even related. The Tutsi were okay with this as long as the Hutu played by their rules.

After the Hutu outnumbered the Tutsi, a political upheaval was fomented again and again based on the idea of Tutsis being an oppressive overlord, a struggle for power went on for some time, and A Hutu govt. with Hutu militias were formed, and armed, principally by the French. An event was staged, probably by the US, as it was a US rocket that was used, IIRC, and the militias then carried out their orders. They quickly pressured many local Hutu into genocide, Hutu dissenters were killed as if they were Tutsi, and the 1/2 century of discontent that had been played up and played upon was rapidly converted into genocidal hatred.

Hate crimes are probably just a dumb definition. They attach an agenda to crimes which is unlikely to exist, but whether or not it does, you're lending credence to the theory that it does by the classification, thus creating the problem. Any longstanding discontent can be pushed rapidly into fever pitch when one group has all the guns (2a crowd, am I right here: It was illegal for Tutsi to own guns in a Hutu Rwanda? IIRC)

This is hardly an analogous situation. Hutu and Tutsi were not separate, they lived door to door, more so than blacks and whites in america. There was a longstanding discontentment among Hutus, but not a trickle of "hate crimes," but a top down order run by specially assembled militias to erase one of the oldest ethnic groups on Earth from the surface of the planet. This plan wasn't organized by fringe groups of ne'erdowells with anarchist subcultures, it was organized by the govt. It was a govt. plan to remove the minority population, the one that was here first.

Want something closer? Try the US settlers and the indians. Though settlers and indians didn't live door to door, and resentment wasn't built up overnight... I'm sure there's a better parallel to this situation. The French Revolution. That was more the mentality, it was just a difference of scale: This was a class-race warfare. The race targeted was the upper class, and the class barrier was associated with the motivation and the call to arms. The extermination of the Tutsi was akin to the slaughter of the aristocracy, it was just easier to spot a Tutsi. If you didn't partake, you were a traitor.

Political madness, not creeping racism. These two races were never close allies. Not to support a Wulf position, but if there is a lesson here, it's that it exposes the dangers of integration, not separation.

Actually. Thanks for the post: It's making me rethink this one state solution for Palestine. If it did occur, Israel/Palestine would be the region's biggest employer, muslims would flood in, through immigration, they would be treated as second class citizens by the jews, who would have more money, and be the upper class. This would breed 1/2 a century of contention, and then, some Muslim ruler of Palestine would set up militias to kill the jews, outlaw gun ownership among jews, and then set the trigger, call all arabs who didn't attack as "traitors"...be just the same

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Sunday, October 4, 2009 7:42 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Again, we see how Americans are different from every other people on the planet.

(I mean that in a GOOD way, assclowns)



Is there some genetic difference?

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Sunday, October 4, 2009 8:13 PM

DREAMTROVE


MD

Yes, we have the moron gene ;)
I believe your country has the criminal gene ;)

It's sad but true, America was stuck by the DMB04 virus which permanently genetically altered americans, lowering the average IQ to 58, and causing us to re-elect George W. Bush.

I believe the winning campaign slogan was "Bush. Because Kerry looks Lurch."

Americans have been trying to deal with the problem ever since then. We gathered together in frozen squares of cordoned off areas where no cameras were allowed, and protested to each other. Then, we lead candlelight vigils in solitude, to make sure that no one knew how much we thought we cared, and we felt good. We kicked back, had a brewsky, and watch some boob tube.

Then, we were struck but the FAT450 virus. This disabled our feeble attempts to hope to change things, as we were unable to move.

Yes, america is truly the greatest nation on earth, if by great, you mean fat.

How IQ scores and SAT(college entrance) scores can change year to year baffles me, since both are relativistic measurements.

But we are different in many other ways.

We use z's all over the place, (where more timid nations might use s's,) and we call them "zee" instead of "zed."

We also have lots of bombs.

We don't have our own currency, we have to borrow it from a private corporation. This set the world record for the dumbest economic system ever devised, leading some americans to think that Woodrow Wilson was perhaps patient zero for the DMB04 moron virus.

America is big, too. We have lots of land. We got it by killing people, but they seem to still be here, and want their land back. We will probably give it to them, not because we're generous, but just because we're really f^&king dumb. But it's a good thing. Indians charge much lower taxes. They also don't fight wars. Not anymore.

We have a pretty country too. It's really nice. You should check it out. Most Americans don't, they're stuck inside massive concrete structures we call 'toxicity zones' which you can usually smell at a distance of 60 miles. (I'm not making this up. You can actually smell an american city at 60 miles. Fortunately, the country is really big, like australia, but I think we win on airable land.)

The only place that really kicks our ass is Brazil.

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Sunday, October 4, 2009 8:46 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


You make me laugh.

We have airable land too, makes it easier to breathe that way - just not as much arable

other than that, I think we've been struck by some pretty similar viruses - must be all the air travel, but we've had our own versions of DMB04 = which is known here as FBon virus (follow blindly on) and we definitely have caught the FAT450, and I blame the opening of Krispy Kreme here for that one.


I have briefly checked it out - but I am planning my big road trip with the family which I hope will be just as funny as the Vacation movie without all the dead bodies and dogs - you see, I really can't think of the USA without thinking of a movie.

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Sunday, October 4, 2009 9:15 PM

DREAMTROVE


Oops

You breathe your land?

Quote:

I think we've been struck by some pretty similar viruses - must be all the air travel, but we've had our own versions of DMB04 = which is known here as FBon virus (follow blindly on) and we definitely have caught the FAT450, and I blame the opening of Krispy Kreme here for that one.


Lol. Saturated hydrogenated oils. They work as a preservative because microbes can't digest them. Neither can you.

you have the cool gene

Quote:

I have briefly checked it out - but I am planning my big road trip with the family which I hope will be just as funny as the Vacation movie without all the dead bodies and dogs - you see, I really can't think of the USA without thinking of a movie.


as long as it has christie brinkley nekkid. The mistake everyone makes on the American road trip is size. Most countries, even large ones, are really concentrated. Americans are all over the place. The thing that gets people is when you drive 500 miles and haven't left the state, and then realize there are 50 of them. And, of course, Alaska, where they say "If Alaska were split in half, Texas would be the third largest state."

From Australia it won't be nearly the shock that it is for Europeans though. I live in a moderate sized state, and I had a friend visiting from enland, and we drove all over a fairly small part of the state, and he wanted to see where we'd been, and was like "Is that all?" And I said "yes, welcome to upstate new york, it's larger than england, and it's virtually all forest. We has a state park that's larger than all of Wales. But when I talk to people from TX CA or AK I'm humbled.

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Sunday, October 4, 2009 9:33 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Breathe it all in - it's pretty dusty in parts.

Yeah, I think the distances I have no problems getting my head around, it's just that where we have lots of big empty - you have big filled (and still plenty of empty to enjoy as well, no doubt)

If we did it, we do it with our long service leave and take some time. There are a lot of places I wouldn't bother with, including most of the cities except for a select few. I haven't planned it out yet, entirely. We might have to fly a bit of it and drive a bit to see what we want to see.

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Sunday, October 4, 2009 9:34 PM

DREAMTROVE


oh, and alot time. It's good to get your shots too. You don't want to catch any new viruses. Hopetitus is rampant.

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Monday, October 5, 2009 10:19 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Random breathalyzer tests for Canada
www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/10/05/random-breathalyzer-drunk-driving-t
est-law.html


Quote:

"Strictly speaking, a driver can register a BAC of 0.00% and still be convicted of a DUI. The level of BAC does not clear a driver when it is below the 'presumed level of intoxication.'"
—Tennessee Driver Handbook and Driver License Study Guide
http://www.state.tn.us/safety/dlmain.htm

"One of the major defects in many methods of blood-alcohol analysis is the failure to identify ethanol to the exclusion of all other chemical compounds. Thus a client with other compounds in his blood or breath may have a high 'blood-alcohol' reading with little or no ethanol in his body. If you look at the warranties - it is sort of interesting - none of the breath machine manufacturers warrant these things to actually test blood alcohol."
—Lawrence Taylor, attorney at law, DUICENTER.COM, Drunk Driving Defense, 5th Edition (2000)

"Nancy Benoit also had a blood alcohol reading of .184, although Sperry said the blood alcohol and drug levels could be affected by the decomposition of her body. 'These (blood alcohol) results are not reliable for interpretation because the amount of alcohol in her system could have all come from the decomposition.'"
—Cindy Morley, Fayette Daily News, GBI: Chris Benoit's son was full of Xanax, July 18, 2007

"The only reliable test for blood alcohol from a corpse is by drawing the blood directly from the interior chambers of the heart. Otherwise the blood can be contaminated with stomach and intestinal contents from ingested alcohol. This is especially true for crash victims."
—Dr Randall Pedigo MD, Knox County coroner, KPD firearms instructor and expert medical witness, shot 6 times by TBI during raid on his home searching for firearm used by towtrucking carthieves to kill a cop in Knoxville (actual shooter was "suicided" by police state death squad via "lead poisoning" and hanging), convicted of homosexual rape by injection of "vitamin" sedatives, conversation with Pirate News and The Prohibition Times

"Let me start with law enforcement contacts with respect to traffic stops, for suspicion of driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs. The Fifth amendment of the Bill of Rights states that we are not to be forced to incrimnate ourselves. The actual wording is, you cannot be compelled to be a witness against yourself. If you are stopped for suspicion of DUI, these are your rights regardless of the laws of your state. First of all, you are to deny having consumed any alcoholic beverages whatsoever. You are never to admit to having one or two drinks. If you admit to consuming even one drop of alcohol, you open the door to 'probable cause', allowing the police officer to search your car for open containers. Next, you are never to submit to a Field Sobriety Test. You are to refuse to do so. They cannot make you walk the line, they cannot make you balance or anything else. Now when you are arrested, you are to refuse to allow a blood-alcohol test, regardless of what state law 'requires', such as revocation of driving priveleges for a period of time. That's an attempt to compel you to be a witness against yourself. Supreme Court decisions in this area are very specific with regards to your rights as folows: Lefkowitz vs Turley, and the Fifth Amendment, provides that no person shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, and permits him to refuse to any any other qustions put to him in any other proceeding, civil or criminal, formal or informal, where the answers might incriminate him in future criminal proceedings."
—George Gordon Law Hour, GeorgeGordon.com, "The Policeman is not your friend - He is your adversary," October 30, 2007

"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded. America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
-President Abraham Lincoln (Rothschild), unlicensed attorney at law

"There's a report out tonight that 24-years ago I was apprehended in Kennebunkport, Maine, for a DUI. That's an accurate story. I'm not proud of that. I oftentimes said that years ago I made some mistakes. I occasionally drank too much and I did on that night. I was pulled over. I admitted to the policeman that I had been drinking. I paid a fine. And I regret that it happened. But it did. I've learned my lesson."
—President George W. Bush, CNN Larry King Live, November 2, 2000
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/bushdui1.html

"Cheney’s first DWI conviction came in November 1962 when he was 21. According to the docket from Cheyenne’s Municipal Court, Cheney was arrested for drunkenness and 'operating motor vehicle while intoxicated.' A Cheyenne Police Judge found Cheney guilty of the two charges and hit him with a 30-day suspension of his driver’s license. Cheney also had to forfeit a $150 bond posted at the time of his arrest. Further information about the case - such as the defendant’s blood alcohol content or whether Cheney was jailed following the arrest - is unavailable since other court records from that period have been destroyed, according to Wyoming officials. Details of Cheney’s second Wyoming arrest in July 1963, have also fallen victim to time and records destruction practices at the local Municipal Court. But a police arrest card maintained by the Rock Springs Police Department shows that Cheney was fined $100 for his second DWI conviction. The card lists the charge against Cheney, who was then working as a groundman laying power lines, as '11-44,' the criminal code classification for drunken driving, according to Police Chief Neil Kourbelas. At the time of the Rock Springs arrest, Kourbelas said that local cops and judges would not have known that young Cheney was a repeat offender. The police department, Kourbelas said, 'wouldn’t have had the ability to automatically check with other jurisdictions to find out if anyone had prior arrests or convictions. We could have arrested Jack the Ripper back then and had no idea what he had done.'”
-Allen Trapp, GaDUIblog.com, Top 50 DUI Arrests of All-Time, February 16, 2007
http://gaduiblog.com/category/dui-arrests-that-made-the-news/top-50-du
i-arrests-of-all-time
/
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/cheney_doc.html

THE PROHIBITION TIMES
America's Secret History of the Current Prohibition of Alcohol
A Responsible Driver's Survival Guide
http://www.piratenews.org/theprohibitiontimes.html



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Monday, October 5, 2009 12:32 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


I believe the winning campaign slogan was "Bush. Because Kerry looks Lurch."



Personally, I always thought Kerry looked like Andrew Jackson...





Maybe I'm the only one that sees it.

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Monday, October 5, 2009 3:12 PM

DREAMTROVE


Ack! That's definitely a downgrade. Kerry looks more undead than Jackson. Oh no! John Kerry is the undead vampire of Andrew Jackson! He's sparkling twilight talent: His word can simply suck your will to live.

Or at least to stay conscious

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Monday, October 5, 2009 3:51 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Ack!

He's sparkling twilight talent: His word can simply suck your will to live.

Or at least to stay conscious




Too true, too true. That man, when speaking, is the oratory equivalent of watching paint dry - if paint drying could POSSIBLY be any more boring, that is.

Holy christ - there's a new Olympic sport: Watching paint dry while listening to John Kerry explain the war!


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Tuesday, October 6, 2009 5:20 PM

DREAMTROVE


Well, IIRC, his ancestry roots proved him not only part jewish, and not Irish (Kerry was Ellis Island for Koen or some variation?) but also that he was french, and apparently fluent in the language (mon dieu). Anyway, this explains how he lost the election: Bush, cheated, probably in FL and many other places, but most notably in Ohio. Libertarian candidate Mike Badnarik challenged the result, and Kerry showed up to do the French thing: From the jaws of victory, (zut alors) Surrender.

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Tuesday, October 6, 2009 6:23 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Bend over for your butt bomb inspection:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=40286

Howdya like them takin liberties with your civil liberties?

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Tuesday, October 6, 2009 8:40 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by piratenews:
Bend over for your butt bomb inspection:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=40286

Howdya like them takin liberties with your civil liberties?



I decided not to travel in the US a while back, just think how many will join me if this takes place.




" I don't believe in hypothetical situations - it's kinda like lying to your brain "

" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson


Lets party like its 1939

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Wednesday, October 7, 2009 10:29 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Yep, and many US citizens decided not to fly commercial also because of the bullshit shakedown - which amounts, mind you, to little more than security theatre, which I find offensive in more ways than I can name.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_theater

And when the airline companies started feeling the squeeze, instead of modifying their behavior and putting pressure on DHS/TSA and their abusive thieving goons, they go running to big daddy government and whine for a handout.

Reducing the all but in name boycott to worthless, since the taxpayers wind up forced to pay for a service they did not use BECAUSE they wanted them to change their behavior.

As one can imagine I am damned irate about it.

So more power to you, the Gov here can't squeeze YOU for your refusal, and I would suggest you not only continue that refusal, but send a stiff letter to the appropriate folks over here telling them why - and CC it to various american activist fronts to make SURE notice gets taken.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Wednesday, October 7, 2009 11:05 AM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Yep, and many US citizens decided not to fly commercial also because of the bullshit shakedown - which amounts, mind you, to little more than security theatre, which I find offensive in more ways than I can name.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_theater

And when the airline companies started feeling the squeeze, instead of modifying their behavior and putting pressure on DHS/TSA and their abusive thieving goons, they go running to big daddy government and whine for a handout.

Reducing the all but in name boycott to worthless, since the taxpayers wind up forced to pay for a service they did not use BECAUSE they wanted them to change their behavior.

As one can imagine I am damned irate about it.

So more power to you, the Gov here can't squeeze YOU for your refusal, and I would suggest you not only continue that refusal, but send a stiff letter to the appropriate folks over here telling them why - and CC it to various american activist fronts to make SURE notice gets taken.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it




Way I see it, US foreign policy created the situation which made the draconian security requirements necessary...

and instead of fixing that foreign policy, they accelerated it, making the need for tighter and tighter security requirements...

Now as you say, the involved industrys cannot afford the market conditions generated by the increased security


I think this is called an economic death spiral isn't it ??





" I don't believe in hypothetical situations - it's kinda like lying to your brain "

" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson


Lets party like its 1939

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