The Politics of Spite by Niki2

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The Politics of Spite

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Saturday, October 10, 2009 11:53
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1193
PAGE 1 of 1

Thursday, October 8, 2009 9:54 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

The Politics of Spite
By PAUL KRUGMAN

There was what President Obama likes to call a teachable moment last week, when the International Olympic Committee rejected Chicago’s bid to be host of the 2016 Summer Games.

“Cheers erupted” at the headquarters of the conservative Weekly Standard, according to a blog post by a member of the magazine’s staff, with the headline “Obama loses! Obama loses!” Rush Limbaugh declared himself “gleeful.” “World Rejects Obama,” gloated the Drudge Report. And so on.

So what did we learn from this moment? For one thing, we learned that the modern conservative movement, which dominates the modern Republican Party, has the emotional maturity of a bratty 13-year-old.

But more important, the episode illustrated an essential truth about the state of American politics: at this point, the guiding principle of one of our nation’s two great political parties is spite pure and simple. If Republicans think something might be good for the president, they’re against it — whether or not it’s good for America.

To be sure, while celebrating America’s rebuff by the Olympic Committee was puerile, it didn’t do any real harm. But the same principle of spite has determined Republican positions on more serious matters, with potentially serious consequences — in particular, in the debate over health care reform.

Now, it’s understandable that many Republicans oppose Democratic plans to extend insurance coverage — just as most Democrats opposed President Bush’s attempt to convert Social Security into a sort of giant 401(k). The two parties do, after all, have different philosophies about the appropriate role of government.

But the tactics of the two parties have been different. In 2005, when Democrats campaigned against Social Security privatization, their arguments were consistent with their underlying ideology: they argued that replacing guaranteed benefits with private accounts would expose retirees to too much risk.

The Republican campaign against health care reform, by contrast, has shown no such consistency. For the main G.O.P. line of attack is the claim — based mainly on lies about death panels and so on — that reform will undermine Medicare. And this line of attack is utterly at odds both with the party’s traditions and with what conservatives claim to believe.

Think about just how bizarre it is for Republicans to position themselves as the defenders of unrestricted Medicare spending. First of all, the modern G.O.P. considers itself the party of Ronald Reagan — and Reagan was a fierce opponent of Medicare’s creation, warning that it would destroy American freedom. (Honest.) In the 1990s, Newt Gingrich tried to force drastic cuts in Medicare financing. And in recent years, Republicans have repeatedly decried the growth in entitlement spending — growth that is largely driven by rising health care costs.

But the Obama administration’s plan to expand coverage relies in part on savings from Medicare. And since the G.O.P. opposes anything that might be good for Mr. Obama, it has become the passionate defender of ineffective medical procedures and overpayments to insurance companies.

How did one of our great political parties become so ruthless, so willing to embrace scorched-earth tactics even if so doing undermines the ability of any future administration to govern?

The key point is that ever since the Reagan years, the Republican Party has been dominated by radicals — ideologues and/or apparatchiks who, at a fundamental level, do not accept anyone else’s right to govern.

Anyone surprised by the venomous, over-the-top opposition to Mr. Obama must have forgotten the Clinton years. Remember when Rush Limbaugh suggested that Hillary Clinton was a party to murder? When Newt Gingrich shut down the federal government in an attempt to bully Bill Clinton into accepting those Medicare cuts? And let’s not even talk about the impeachment saga.

The only difference now is that the G.O.P. is in a weaker position, having lost control not just of Congress but, to a large extent, of the terms of debate. The public no longer buys conservative ideology the way it used to; the old attacks on Big Government and paeans to the magic of the marketplace have lost their resonance. Yet conservatives retain their belief that they, and only they, should govern.

The result has been a cynical, ends-justify-the-means approach. Hastening the day when the rightful governing party returns to power is all that matters, so the G.O.P. will seize any club at hand with which to beat the current administration.

It’s an ugly picture. But it’s the truth. And it’s a truth anyone trying to find solutions to America’s real problems has to understand.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/05/opinion/05krugman.html?_r=3

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, October 8, 2009 9:58 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

And the back and forth between the 2 sides continue.

Im not hearing anything about real "change".

Just more of the same old bullshit.

My party is better than yours... ect ect to infinity.

You know, some people are actually trying to make things better.

Do we have to wait until you brainwashed idiots die off so we can change things for the better, or are we going to have to endlessly deal with the offspring that continue the nonsense?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, October 8, 2009 10:04 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Just more of the same old bullshit from Wulf.

You know, some people are actually trying to make things better. But not you, all you want to do is bitch and moan and post over-the-top idiocy having nothing whatsoever to do with reality, and cry "let's revolt!"

Do we have to wait for you brainwashed idiot to wise up, or are we going to have to endlessly endure your impotent rambling nonsense?

It's real. It's assinine. It's how it is right now. So how about suggesting some ways we can overcome these scorched-earth tactics, rather than trashing both sides and ignoring the topic, since we only HAVE the two sides and that's not changing in our lifetime? Too hard, huh...well, go ahead and ramble about your fantasies, maybe you'll learn something eventually from the replies.

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, October 8, 2009 10:30 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
So what did we learn from this moment? For one thing, we learned that the modern conservative movement, which dominates the modern Republican Party, has the emotional maturity of a bratty 13-year-old.

Only thing I can say to that is...

Took em THIS long to realize that ?

All else about it I've addressed elsewhere.

-F

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, October 8, 2009 10:33 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Fuck the Republican Party.

And the Democratic one.

We need something better.

Independent, Green, Libertarian, whatever.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, October 8, 2009 10:35 AM

STORYMARK

As long as they're not from one of the scary races, though.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, October 8, 2009 10:37 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Scary, Story... you want scary?

lol

Poor thing, Story has issues.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, October 8, 2009 10:51 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

...and you wonder why people treat you the way they do?

Quote:
Do we have to wait until you brainwashed idiots die off so we can change things for the better, or are we going to have to endlessly deal with the offspring that continue the nonsense?

Great way to debate. There's your (mentioned in another thread) "baggage" Wulf; you devolve everything into black and white, then take of slinging. Only yourself to blame.

At one time, I think it was, you said something about being here to learn how to communicate with others. I actually kinda doubt that now, after reading you for a while...I think that was either an excuse or you're not learning anything...

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, October 8, 2009 10:56 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Or Im learning to meet kind with kind, Niki.

Fire with fire.

Flame with flame...

ETA: You dont know me, so Ill give you a pass. But I've known for a long time, the one who wins in anything is the one who will go the furthest.

ETA2: Balls to the wall. No compromise, no retreat. Put your shit out there, then defend it.

Niki. Its a guy thing.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, October 8, 2009 12:54 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
And the back and forth between the 2 sides continue.

Im not hearing anything about real "change".

Just more of the same old bullshit.

My party is better than yours... ect ect to infinity.

You know, some people are actually trying to make things better.

Do we have to wait until you brainwashed idiots die off so we can change things for the better, or are we going to have to endlessly deal with the offspring that continue the nonsense?

So, Wulfie, I'm just dying to know...

What party is it that you think is trying to make things better? Or is it just you, all by your lonesome?

You go on for days about "my party is better than yours", "two sides of the same BS", etc. - but what is it, EXACTLY (be specific, and give examples), that YOU PERSONALLY are doing to make the world such a better place?

I mean, other than hating blacks and hippies, of course.

Mike

The percentage you're paying is too high-priced
While you're living beyond all your means;
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, October 8, 2009 12:58 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Fuck the Republican Party.

And the Democratic one.

We need something better.

Independent, Green, Libertarian, whatever.

Which is your way of saying "My party's better than yours", is it not? I mean, I know you like to think you're so above all this, and better than, and all that, but what is it that you're proposing, other than "we need a party that's better than the parties that think they're better than each other."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, October 8, 2009 1:05 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Or Im learning to meet kind with kind, Niki.

Fire with fire.

Flame with flame...

ETA: You dont know me, so Ill give you a pass. But I've known for a long time, the one who wins in anything is the one who will go the furthest.

ETA2: Balls to the wall. No compromise, no retreat. Put your shit out there, then defend it.

Niki. Its a guy thing.

Which, again, is different from the "two sides fighting over the same BS"... HOW, exactly?

So you freely admit to doing EXACTLY what both of the sides - which you claim to hate them for - are doing. You're a party of one, apparently. Good luck with getting elected. But don't forget, you're already the king of the dipshits!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, October 8, 2009 2:32 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Weird thing is, the republicans were spiteful even when they won. Remember the little lie about how all the "W's" were removed from the keypads ? About how the Clintons 'trashed' the WH before they left ?

It's not like it just started. It never stopped.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, October 8, 2009 3:51 PM

DREAMTROVE

There's lots of problems with this:

1. Limbaugh et al were not elected to represent us, I think they were appointed by the media to indoctrinate us and make us look bad.

2. Almost everyone cheered the defeat. I knew zero proponents of the plan, but then, I know a lot of people from the area, and people I know do: It was a moronic idea, as I said, akin to levelling central park to put up a stadium. Yeah, sure, some sports fan would support it, but seems most people from Obama's own neighborhood, devout supporters, thought it was a moronic idea.

3. It did serve one purpose: It showed who was a total US puppet. We're looking at you, Columbia...

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, October 9, 2009 3:08 PM

KWICKO

Here's another take on it, complete with video of the celebration that erupted at the headquarters of Americans For Prosperity, who are one of the prime sponsors of the "tea party" movement.

http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/conservatives-make-fools-themselv
es-the

Oh, and Chuck Norris, that conservative "patriot" has asked that you take down your American flag, and asks that if you MUST fly it, you should stain it with tea.

http://washingtonindependent.com/60620/chuck-norris-take-down-your-ame
rican-flags-or-stain-them-with-tea

How very American of him.

Wasn't it the "conservatives" who were always going on about wanting to make it illegal to burn the flag, because that was disrespectful and un-American?

Mike

The percentage you're paying is too high-priced
While you're living beyond all your means;
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, October 9, 2009 3:59 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I have surrendered hope that either party will live up to their stated ideals. I do not believe that either party will behave with any real respect towards the other. The hate and counter-hate seems to run too deeply.

Lately, I have begun to fear that 'He's better than Bush' has become the central rallying cry of those celebrating our President, and that they are largely happy with this meager achievement. Meanwhile, those staunchly against the President seem like noisy, destructive poltergeists. They offer much in the way of annoyance but little in the way of improvement. Whatever small voices the other camps can raise is inaudible in the din, and I am lost in the resulting political morass.

I suspect a lot of people are meandering about in the same quagmire as me, not knowing where the exit is or how to manage the ascent to better ground.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, October 9, 2009 4:18 PM

KWICKO

In other words, we're all in the shit-pit together, eh, Tony?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, October 9, 2009 4:41 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Indeed we are.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, October 9, 2009 6:03 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
I suspect a lot of people are meandering about in the same quagmire as me, not knowing where the exit is or how to manage the ascent to better ground.

Generally a simple process in theory, slightly more difficult, although not always so, in execution.

Find the correct ass, and introduce it to a boot, repeatedly.

S'worked for centuries, folks.

-F

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, October 10, 2009 6:00 AM

DARKJESTER

Wulf wrote -

Quote:
ETA: You dont know me, so Ill give you a pass. But I've known for a long time, the one who wins in anything is the one who will go the furthest.

And THAT is EXACTLY the problem with most /quote debating /unquote that goes on, here and most everywhere else. "Bamboozle them with bullshit" - "argument weak, yell like HELL!" People are confusing winning with being right.

What did Mal say about being on the "losing" side?

MAL "You only gotta scare him."
JAYNE "Pain is scary..."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, October 10, 2009 11:53 AM

KWICKO

Quote:

There was what President Obama likes to call a teachable moment last week, when the International Olympic Committee rejected Chicago’s bid to be host of the 2016 Summer Games.

“Cheers erupted” at the headquarters of the conservative Weekly Standard, according to a blog post by a member of the magazine’s staff, with the headline “Obama loses! Obama loses!” Rush Limbaugh declared himself “gleeful.” “World Rejects Obama,” gloated the Drudge Report. And so on.

I believe it's called "Obama Derangement Syndrome".

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

YOUR OPTIONS

SHARE THREAD

NEW POSTS TODAY

USER	POST DATE

USER

POST DATE