So....Yeah.... JOBS. by RahlMaclaren

Buy local/made in America as much as possible. Make sure your public institutions are doing the same.

It is pretty ridiculous that often our tax dollars are spent on buying mass transit vehicles manufactured in Europe or Japan. I know the DoD almost hired a french company to build their re-fueling air tankers.

Support small business owners. The profit from small business owners ends up back in your community. So the money you saved by shopping Walmart leaves your community and leaves your poorer for it.

Support your local micro-brewery! (Same effect as supporting other local businesses)

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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 2:34 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Hey, why isn't this the corporations' responsibility? Why does the gubmint have to pull our bacon out of the fire? Isn't "free enterprise" the font of all wealth? (She asks, only slightly bitterly.)

Shoot, man... where to start???

(1) If you skim money towards the rich (as profit) each time it makes a trip through the production/ consumption cycle, you concentrate much wealth in the hands of a few. The vast majority have less money to purchase goods, demand falls, people are laid off. demand falls even further. It is a self-feeding cycle. The "bailout"- started by Bush and continued by Obama- was simply another way to rob the poor to feed the rich, this time through the avenue of tax money- not simple profit. What Obama should do- IMMEDIATELY- is demand the bailout money back, and distribute it downwards, not upwards.

Furthermore, the money can be distributed downwards in a way that creates job IN AMERICA instead of being exported to to China, India, or Vietnam. Aside from public works (How about a new Civilian Conservation Corps to start restoring the environment and prepare it for climate change by planting species further north, creating swaths of thinned forest to stop megafires, restoring wetlands and barrier islands etc.) we can renovate buildings for energy efficiency, rebuild our infrastructure (not just roads and bridges, but sewage systems, water mains, electrical distribution etc.) and pay for more nurses and teachers. (Healthy, educated people are infrastructure too.) That $700 BILLION designated to help CEOs keep their private jets would have created 1 million jobs at $70,000 each for one year, or 100.000 jobs for ten years. That's 100,000 teachers, nurses, researchers, engineers, construction workers, etc. Money that Henry "Hank" Paulson blew out our collective *ss, with Geithner following the same sh*tstream, and damnit, I want it back! And how about restructuring the tax code while we're at it??

(2) Billions for bailout but nothing for healthcare??? WTF???

(3) Globalization was only designed to help the rich. It has impoverished billions. I'd bail out of the WTO as fast as my legs could carry me, and furthermore I'd stop making the IMF the enforcement arm of union-busting/ impoverishment practices around the world. If we're going to compete globally, we should stop cutting our own throats.

(4) With increasing automation and productivity, there is no need (except, of course, for management to squeeze the highest profit possible out of the fewest people) for people to be working 50, 60, or 70 hours a week. Or even 40. The standard workweek should be 35 hours, with no loss of pay or benefits.

Ya see????

There's nothing going on that money and political will can't fix.

ETA: And all this crap about a jobless "recovery"...? In my book, if there ain't no jobs, there ain't no recovery.

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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 3:56 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by RahlMaclaren:
[Enters the RWED in a...um...harvester? Those are solid. Boring, but solid.]

This board is (usually) full of smart people. So, I want to see what ideas you have.

The Question:
What can we, the Gov't, or I do to bring back jobs?

And.... GO!

--------------------------------------------------
Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay

Hello,

I'm quite convinced that the less the government does, the better things will become. If the government proceeds to do nothing for a long enough period of time, I expect the economy and the jobs will improve.

On the bright side, I expect that the actions already taken by our government will have a 'positive' impact for years to come. As inflation proceeds to chew up the value of the U.S. Dollar, it will become cheaper and cheaper to hire U.S. workers.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 4:07 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Anthony, you sound like Herbert Hoover's economic advisor, Andrew Mellon.

Quote:
America was no stranger to economic depression when Herbert Hoover took office. The prevailing economic theory on depression had been to weather the storm. Hoover did not subscribe to this theory, but he was in the minority. His Treasury secretary, Andrew Mellon, believed that the 1929 stock market crash and subsequent Depression was the economy naturally cleansing itself of weaker elements. Mellon’s attitude reflects the “invisible hand” theory of economics espoused by Adam Smith. It was Smith’s theory that shaped the laissez-faire economic policies of the prosperous 1920’s and before.

It was laissez faire capitalism that got us into the Great Depression. It was Bush's re-introduction of 1920's economic policies that got us into THIS mess. However it is that money is concentrated into fewer and fewer hands, whether by default or by government intervention, you WILL generate a depression.

You really should study economics, Tony, and replace some of that conviction with fact.

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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 5:58 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I think that you will find that depressions and recessions occur under all economic platforms. Planned and regulated, and fast and loose. It's really in the recovery from economic failure that various economies distinguish themselves. Not in the avoidance of such failures.

I don't know if you are an economist or not, Signy. I'm not, but I have done some reading on the topic this year.

It's a terrible shame that when someone disagrees with someone else on this board, the default assumption is that someone is woefully ignorant and misguided. "Ah, if only you'd bothered to pick up a book, there is no way you could come to such a conclusion."

It's never possible that two people can look at the same information and come to different conclusions. Never mind that well-read and brilliant economists have disagreed on the management of economies since the dawn of currency. If only I'd familiarized myself with the right books and experts, I'd not make such lame and deranged assertions.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 6:25 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Indeed, economic crises have occurred at least since the

Roman Empire http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_of_the_Third_Century and.. spot-checking my way through history...

monarchic France (right b4 the Revolution) http://www.fsmitha.com/h3/h33-fr.html

Russia under Alexander
http://encyclopedia.farlex.com/Czar+Alexander+I

and of course the panics and depressions of 1819, 1832, 1836-1843, 1893 (world panic), 1901 and 1929 (Great Depression).

The ONE THING they have in common is concentration of wealth whether in the hands of an emperor, monarch, czar, robber baron, or Credit Default Swap trader. The USA stumbled through one depression and panic after another, trusting "the markets" to right the ship, until the Great Depression, when government stepped and threw MASSIVE amounts of (deficit) money at the "lower classes"... at first through "pump priming" and then through war spending... which heralded an unprecedented era of growth and prosperity.

Even Greenspan, free-marketeer cheerleader, admitted that laissez-faire ("let be") capialism is not the way to go

Quote:
The former Federal Reserve chairman, Alan Greenspan, has conceded that the global financial crisis has exposed a "mistake" in the free market ideology which guided his 18-year stewardship of US monetary policy. A long-time cheerleader for deregulation, Greenspan admitted to a congressional committee yesterday that he had been "partially wrong" in his hands-off approach towards the banking industry and that the credit crunch had left him in a state of shocked disbelief. "I have found a flaw," said Greenspan, referring to his economic philosophy. "I don't know how significant or permanent it is. But I have been very distressed by that fact."

Tony, you're right... it's how we recover from this that defines us. Why would you have us go back a re-try what CLEARLY didn't work the first fifty times? Bc if we did, wouldn't that kind of define us as idiots?

Sorry for the snark, but this really gets under my skin.

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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 6:51 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Oh yeah, one more addendum... is not sufficient to "give" money to people... the Roman Empire did that with bread and circuses, as they became more and more dependent on slave labor (kind of like we are today with automation and cheap foreign labor.) It has to be in the form of jobs.

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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 6:56 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

It seems like there is some kind of belief that if we plan carefully enough, place the right kinds of regulations, and control the economy just so...

that we will avoid these recessions and depressions.

Yet I have seen no evidence that this is the case.

I conversely believe that recessions and depressions are something of a natural economic cycle. I worry that in our haste to intervene in the current economic crisis, we are simply climbing out of one crater to tumble into the next. I feel that we are spending vast quantities of money for a lead parachute that will bury us at the bottom of the next ravine.

Your own figures, in fact, point to a series of US economic contractions which WERE swiftly rectified, followed in each case by eras of growth and prosperity.

In fifty years, we can debate it all again with new information. In the mean-time, it is hubris for anyone to pretend to know with certainty that a particular economic policy is obviously correct.

The greatest depression I feel in relation to this thread is my inability to speak of my economic philosophy without having others respond with snark and snide remarks. I paraphrase: "What an ignoramus!" *grinds teeth* "Sorry for the snark, but honestly, aren't you a buffoon?"

How is that necessary or warranted? By all means, present your position on the economy, but can you possibly build up a case for your ideas without denigrating others? If you have a sound economic platform, share it. If it is logical and good, it will be evident to the readers. Telling people they need to go study is not helpful.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 7:12 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Okay, without snark.

Yes, there is a "natural" cycle at work. It is due to the trend which I have pointed out over and over again: Power concentrates. Wealth concentrates. People have this notion that money behaves like water... that is spreads out naturally, and diffuses on its own.

Nothing could be further from the truth. There are some forces - like gravity- which naturally, inevitably, increase over time. (As a mass pulls more and more mass towards itself, it increases its gravitational force and pulls in even more mass. It's called a "positive feedback" system).

My reading of history is that power and wealth behave like gravity.... a small advantage in power/ wealth is parlayed into larger and larger advantage, until it becomes a runaway train which sucks everything along: the media, military power, the law... The way to interrupt this cycle is to create a system which actively re-distibutes money and power. Better yet, add to that a system which actively prevents the concentration of money and power.

The problem with leaving it all alone is that ... the bigger it is... the harder it falls. Small, local depressions are not as harmful as big ones, but with worlwide financial and economic integration, depressions go global very quickly. So I don't think we're in an era of "leave it be".

Many bright minds have been at work trying to figure out a system which stays closer towards equilibrium, without oscillating through booms and busts. Keynes was only the first.

Planned economies (like China and Europe) are actually making their way through the minefield better than we are, because they're not idly sitting on their hands (or worse yet, paddling towards the waterfall).

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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 7:17 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I suppose I should admit that I find the idea of regular, almost predictable economic cycles to be something of a comfort. It is not particularly shattering to me to know that every 10-15 years will bring a brief economic contraction. (And that was the trend through much of our history.)

Perhaps I feel this way because I come from South Florida. There, we have a routine of preparation for cyclical disaster. Houses are equipped with storm shutters, debris is removed from lawns, canned water and food are stocked in abundance. Not every year brings a disaster, but they come with sufficient regularity that people are conditioned to prepare for them. When it does come, there is a period of discomfort. No power, bad roads, some minor damage to the home.

Conserved resources are spent, as they were meant to be, to weather the disaster period. Soon enough, the disaster passes. The vast majority of Floridians survive each Hurricane without crippling damage to their property or livelihood. The worst hit are usually persons who live in sub-standard housing in low-lying areas with insufficient drainage. This, remarkably, is a failure of government.

Micro-managing the economy smacks of a high-tech weather control project. It appears likely to cost more than Reagan's maligned Star Wars gambit, with results that seem to me to have just as little certainty of success.

Of course, I suppose proponents of the prevailing theories about recovery following the Great Depression would assert that the Cold War runaway wartime spending was a boon to the economy. It may have been? But it does not seem to me like a sustainable means of managing an economy.

I have reservations about a managed economy because I am not sure that even a committee of brilliant economists can anticipate and communicate the needs of an economy more efficiently than the Free Market. I am also convinced that government-sponsored recovery from the (to my mind) inevitable economic contractions are more costly than we can afford.

It may be that I am mistaken. However, whatever I believe and you believe, I will make an effort to listen and discuss this with utmost civility and respect.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 7:30 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

The "free" market brought us this disaster. Just like it brought us our disasterous healthcare and the Great Depression. By their works you shall know them.

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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 7:32 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

And your alternative? (Specifically?)

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 7:44 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Several. I listed several options already, in answer to "what can we do to promote jobs"? We could start conservatively with re-regulating the financial sector and taking a page from the EU by leaving goods production in the hands of capitalists but having heavy government involvement in wealth distribution.

But there are farther-ranging options available: nationalizing banks, changing business forms allowed by law (eg towards cooperatives), doing away with the stock market etc. How far do you want to go?

Quite honestly, this isn't rocket science. The only reason its presented as so terribly difficult and complex to deal with is bc TPTB don't want to be monkeyed with, so they obfuscate everything.

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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 7:52 AM

One thing, before you can identify an alternative, is: What are basic human rights?

Right now America is a country with over 400 billionaires and 50 million people who go to sleep hungry.

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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 7:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
But there are farther-ranging options available: nationalizing banks, changing business forms allowed by law (eg towards cooperatives), doing away with the stock market etc. How far do you want to go?

Nationalizing oil for one.

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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 7:54 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I think your basic right should be the ability to find a job which pays well enough to survive on, and enough leftover for charity and peeps who CAN'T work for a living (eg children, the elderly, and the disabled).

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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 8:06 AM