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I do think the Soviet Union would have collapsed regardless. I don't think it can be denied that Reagan helped apply pressure to an unsustainable system.

What is frequently overlooked, in my opinion, is that he did that at home as well as abroad.

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Skywhackin wrote (or copied and pasted):


The first part was a war of action. The Reagan administration used paramilitary ops, covert action, small unit combat, and simly taking the torch to the enemy. The instruments were anti-communist Nicaraguan freedom fighters, anti-communist Afghan freedom fighters and anti-communist Polish freedom fighters.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

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Skywhackin wrote (or copied and pasted):


The first part was a war of action. The Reagan administration used paramilitary ops, covert action, small unit combat, and simly taking the torch to the enemy. The instruments were anti-communist Nicaraguan freedom fighters, anti-communist Afghan freedom fighters and anti-communist Polish freedom fighters.

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"Freedom fighters"? Don't yoy mean "terrorists"?

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and after one term in power the " anti-communist Polish freedom fighters " were thrown out of power and replaced by the communists by popular vote.

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Originally posted by kpo:

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and after one term in power the " anti-communist Polish freedom fighters " were thrown out of power and replaced by the communists by popular vote.

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But the long term damage to communism had been done?

Interesting topic this.

Heads should roll

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"Mr. Dodd, all of us here at the policy making level of the foundation have at one time or another served in the OSS [the Office of Strategic Services, the forerunner of the CIA] or the European Economic Administration, operating under directives from the White House. We operate under those same directives...The substance of the directives under which we operate is that we shall use our grant making power to so alter life in the United States that we can be comfortably merged with the Soviet Union."
-Rowan Gaither, President of the Ford Foundation, speaking to Norman Dodd, Research Director for U.S. Congressman B. Carroll Reece Special Committee on Tax Exempt Foundations
youtube.com/watch?v=YUYCBfmIcHM

"Gentlemen, comrades, do not be concerned about all you hear about glasnost and perestroika and democracy in the coming years. These are primarily for outward consumption. There will be no significant change within the Soviet Union, other than for cosmetic purposes. Our aim is to disarm the Americans and let them fall asleep. I am a convinced Communist. For some this may be a fantasy but for me it is my main goal. The environmental crisis is the cornerstone for the New World Order. My hope is that this Earth charter will be a kind of Ten Commandments, a Sermon on the Mount, that provides a guide for human behaviour toward the environment in the next century and beyond. We need a new paradigm of developement in which the environment will be a priority. World Civilization as we know it will soon end. We have very little time and we must act."
-Mikhail Gorbachev, Communist Russian dictator and chief of KGP secret police
www.rense.com/general12/gobie.htm

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I think you mean the short-term damage to communism had been done.

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Originally posted by kpo:

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I think you mean the short-term damage to communism had been done.

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Ah all right, I mean the long term damage to the Soviets then, and their brand of communism. As for the long term damage to international communism as a whole, I guess we can only wait and see. My hunch is that international communism has peaked, historically speaking.

Heads should roll

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Originally posted by kpo:

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I think you mean the short-term damage to communism had been done.

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Ah all right, I mean the long term damage to the Soviets then, and their brand of communism. As for the long term damage to international communism as a whole, I guess we can only wait and see. My hunch is that international communism has peaked, historically speaking.

Heads should roll

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

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Originally posted by kpo:

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I think you mean the short-term damage to communism had been done.

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Ah all right, I mean the long term damage to the Soviets then, and their brand of communism. As for the long term damage to international communism as a whole, I guess we can only wait and see. My hunch is that international communism has peaked, historically speaking.

Heads should roll

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The USSR made the mistake of spreading themselves too thin militarily, Afghanistan was kind of the last straw. It's the kind of thing that has undone countless empires, the Roman and the British included. The USA should keep this in mind when thinking of it's foreign policy decisions.

The cost, militarily, economically and morally of their continued expanionist policies, coupled with a corrupt, dishonest regime and basically a system of society that didn't really work, and it was bound to collapse sooner or later. Reagan's aggressive stand may have contributed but it also led the world perilously close to nuclear war.

In many ways, the US involvement in Afghanistan was a disaster for the world - sure it stemmed the Russian invasion, but you also armed and trained a whole lot of extremists in a society that had basically been dismantled. And we wonder why the Taliban exist?

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Thanks for that info. I wasn't aware of that. Poor old Afghanistan - seems to be one of those places that's bickered about in proxy wars for generations.

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:

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Originally posted by rue:
[BSad that a full-time cynic and misogynist like Heinlein captured the future so well.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Hello,

Just what is it that Heinlein wrote that makes so many women on this board think of him as misogynistic?

I remember him as one of the (few) sci-fi writers of his age who wrote many intelligent, strong, and capable women. I sometimes felt that the women in his works were more capable than the men.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
It's the kind of thing that has undone countless empires, the Roman and the British included. The USA should keep this in mind when thinking of it's foreign policy decisions.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
It's the kind of thing that has undone countless empires, the Roman and the British included. The USA should keep this in mind when thinking of it's foreign policy decisions.

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How DARE you invite us to use common sense, MD???? We are allowed to eff-up & fall just like any other dynasty!!!


The laughing Chrisisall

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

Thing is, we have it in our heads that we simply are incapable of failure. We have myriad reasons why we CAN'T fail - and never consider that it only takes one thing to prove we can: failure.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
It's the kind of thing that has undone countless empires, the Roman and the British included. The USA should keep this in mind when thinking of it's foreign policy decisions.

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How DARE you invite us to use common sense, MD???? We are allowed to eff-up & fall just like any other dynasty!!!


The laughing Chrisisall

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

Thing is, we have it in our heads that we simply are incapable of failure. We have myriad reasons why we CAN'T fail - and never consider that it only takes one thing to prove we can: failure.

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Failure never proves failure- it merely proves success in another venue.
Mike, you need Dr. Phil...


The laughing Chrisisall

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Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
It is really no wonder after the Taliban took power they tried to keep all foreign influences out...

I mean look at all the pain and suffering foreign influences there caused, I think I'd be a little bitter too being a part of that history.

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Part of the REASON these people tolerate the radical islamic fundamentalists is that they're the only force to ever SUCCESSFULLY kick us and our puppets out of the country, and manage any kind of decent track record against our abuses and exploitation attempts.

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

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Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
It is really no wonder after the Taliban took power they tried to keep all foreign influences out...

I mean look at all the pain and suffering foreign influences there caused, I think I'd be a little bitter too being a part of that history.

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Well hell, that's many middle eastern countries, Iran in particular after us setting up The Shah and SAVAK and backing them up against their own people.

Part of the REASON these people tolerate the radical islamic fundamentalists is that they're the only force to ever SUCCESSFULLY kick us and our puppets out of the country, and manage any kind of decent track record against our abuses and exploitation attempts.

Fact is, most of their people hate em as much or worse than WE do - come on, think about it, YOU ain't gonna live down the street from these assholes, don't have to put up with em, and mostly only hear about em on the news.

Take those drunken right wing assholes in that trailer park down the road with all the stupid bullshit that comes with em, and how you feel about them and you get a pretty good idea of how it is - it's NOT that they have warm fuzzies for the sumbitches, it's just that they find their own homegrown sumbitches to be less offensive and dangerous than our puppets.

Pretty damning implication against us, but that's the way it is folks - maybe if we weren't such a goddamn THREAT to them, with our rapacious corporations and sabre rattling, these dipwads wouldn't have a leg to stand on, and you can bet they know it, too - cause that's how the game works, they use US as a threat to maintain power in their own country, and our bad actors use THEM as a threat to maintain power in this one.

All the while sending us peons to go slaughter each other to protect the fucking illusion, and us peons keep listening to em, and obeying them.

Tell me again, who's the stupid ones here ?

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:

How many Americans view themselves



How many view Americans from abroad

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:

How many Americans view themselves



How many view Americans from abroad

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GINO! If I were a delusional no-questions-asked American psuedo-patriot with a thin skin, I'd be TOTALLY offended by that, dude!!!!!


The laughing Chrisisall

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Hey Gino ?

I've actually gotten MILEAGE out of pointing out to american rednecks that most of them Pashtuns are in fact, middle eastern rednecks.

Showed this vid to a couple of PA national guardsmen, who's essential response to it was..
"Shit, they're just like us!"

-F

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

Here we keep saying, as in Iraq, "We'll stand down when they stand up." And we keep on saying that we'll leave as soon as we have them trained up.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
It's really kinda funny, in a sad way...

Here we keep saying, as in Iraq, "We'll stand down when they stand up." And we keep on saying that we'll leave as soon as we have them trained up.

We've been there for going on NINE FUCKING YEARS now. What are we training them to be, exactly? Doctors? Cardiologists? Lawyers? Tenured professors? I mean seriously, how long does it take to train someone to be a soldier? Six weeks? Eight? Twelve?

It seems pretty obvious that what we're doing isn't working. So why are we still doing it, and trying to increase the level at which we do it?

[shakes head]

Mike

The percentage you're paying is too high-priced
While you're living beyond all your means;
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams

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Come on Mike,


If they got their shit together, how much aid money would the US send them?

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2009/10/2009101420273739662
1.html

you have invented a whole new industry

whether it is GM, citibank, or the sadsacks in Baghdad...







Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists


Lets party like its 1939

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you have invented a whole new industry

whether it is GM, citibank, or the sadsacks in Baghdad...

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

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you have invented a whole new industry

whether it is GM, citibank, or the sadsacks in Baghdad...

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Add to that the fact that one of the few things keeping OUR industries afloat is sales to the Pentagon, so they can keep shipping shit overseas, to be used by us AND sold to "them" - usually by the same people. Often, it's even the same equipment! We buy it for OUR soldiers, who then turn around and "lose" it, and then we find it being used by OUR contractors, who are specifically banned from having such weapons, but paid a good price for it (which we picked up the tab for, AGAIN)...

Or worse yet, the contractors then turn around and sell the stuff to the very people we - and THEY - are supposed to be fighting. Or trade it for heroin, which can be sold for a higher markup over here, and in which case they actually view it as "fighting two enemies at once" (the enemy there and the addict here). And there's about zero chance they're going to get caught bringing it in, since if they don't run the security at the ports and airports, are at least in bed with those who do...

Mike

The percentage you're paying is too high-priced
While you're living beyond all your means;
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams

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who did you really think was running things ?



It's Milo Minderbinder

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milo_Minderbinder





Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists


Lets party like its 1939

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Is this the stupidest thread ad title on FFF.net?

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