Don'tcha love their 'logic'? by Niki2

Don't worry - the free market will wave it's wand and fix it.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 10:22 AM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Yup, we'll just do some fast-waving of the "invisible hand" of the market, and it'll be like it never happened!

Mike

Let the wild rumpus start!

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 10:57 AM

My friend, in Oklahoma isn't even able to AFFORD insurance. He has serious medical problems, he's slowly going blind even though it would be a relatively simple process to reverse, and just recently, he found out his shortness of breath and chest pains he's had since childhood where the result of a hernia in his diaphragm and barely having one functional lung.

The doctors repaired the hernia because it was causing significant problems, but he just found out the hernia opened up again, AND he's bleeding into his chest cavity, AND he right now has developed pneumonia.

No insurance, no coverage, no even getting on disability, because Oklahoma won't even give disability to a paraplegic. He can't afford his medical bills from before, let alone afford to get the surgery to re-fix the hernia and save his life.

This system FUCKING SUCKS.

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:31 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Oh, gawd, Byte, I'm so sorry. There are so many horror stories, but when it happens to someone you know and care about, it's especially horrific.

I can't BELIEVE Oklahoma won't give disability to parapalegics!!! WHY??? There are few diseases SO disabling, that's monstrous. Makes me shudder to think about it; can't he get on federal disability? Surely...?

My heart goes out to both of you, I can't imagine how I'd deal with such a thing. Certainly want to dig out the trusty old

and get to work!

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:33 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

We need insurance regulation... not healthcare regulation....not forced insurance either.

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:55 AM

There's federal disability?

Any ideas anyone has I'm all ears, because he's all but given up, he thinks by the time he fills out the forms and actually gets a response it may be too late. He's going to try to reapply for disability, but they've already denied him once. Which is unfathomable to me, his mother is a nurse at a hospital, and you'd think that nurses and doctors would have some sway, but no.

He tells me that everyone is denied the first few times they apply in Oklahoma. The story about the paraplegic guy he also told me, it was someone he met one of the times he was applying, there'd been an industrial accident and the guy was not only paralyzed, but lost both of his legs. To get disability, that guy had to move out of state. My friend does not have that option.

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 12:03 PM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Which is why we need insurance regulation... not heathcare regulation.

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 12:20 PM

Could you elaborate? I didn't quite understand the first time.

I know what insurance regulation is and I agree with your statements, but what do you mean by healthcare regulation?

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 12:24 PM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

I mean:

Insurance has come to the point where it needs to be regulated. Denying a baby cus they are too fat or too skinny is part of the problem.

Its wrong what the insurance companies are doing.

But...

Forcing people to get insurance? Its like forcing people to buy a car. (Hey it will help the economy, right?)

Its wrong. More so, its illegal, and unconstitutional.

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 12:33 PM

Wulf, I thought you were a libertarian?

By definition, wouldn't that make you ANTI-regulation?

Mike

Let the wild rumpus start!

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 12:45 PM

Ah. Thanks Wulf. I thought that might have been what you meant, but I wasn't entirely sure. Yes, I agree with you.

Kwicko, no offense or nothing, but whether or not Wulf is a Libertarian, or a conservative... He didn't say something you agree with? I thought all of us were a little bit apprehensive about what mandatory insurance could mean. At least there's talk going on about anti-trust now, so maybe insurance companies won't be able to take advantage like I thought.

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 12:48 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Byte, yes, unfortunately disability is often denied initially...the only good news is that once you GET it, they pay you from the first day you applied.

There are advocates for that sort of thing, and law firms, that help people obtain federal disability. They're fighters. Here in CA it seems to be much easier--I got mine in less than a month (and I'm only bipolar), but given what (probably not all true) things I've heard about Oklahoma...I dunno.

But if you can find a law firm that specializes in disability, it would be MUCH faster and his chances of success much higher...I don't think they charge unless you get it, at least the ones I've seen around here.

At least have him TRY--Federal Disability comes with Medicare, which could be a life saver for him! I cannot conceive he'd be denied, for gawd's sake...one thing for a state to be stupid, but federal guidelines are pretty specific, and a parapalegic? Inconceivable they'd deny him.

GOOD LUCK!!!

And I agree 100% about mandatory--it scares me. I'm already on Medicare so it's a moot point, but for the rest of America... Far as I'm concerned: No public option, no mandatory insurance!!! One without the other would be unconscionable!

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 12:57 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

You have to go to your Social Security Office. AND you cannot have more than $2000 to your name (excluding the home you live in, I think). That includes cars, savings and checking, burial plots, saving bonds, and any other assets etc.

It would be helpful if he had a statement from a doctor attesting to the nature, extent, and anticipated length of disability (permanent?) BEFORE he goes to apply. List of doctors, medical records etc should also be taken in. Once he gets on the Social Security disablity roll he is automatically placed on the State's medicare-type list. He can receive disability payments from the Fed, and medical insurance from the state.

Unfortunately this takes a long time.

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 1:25 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Get multiple ORIGINAL copies of that statement, they will "accidently" lose at least three, and photocopies won't do, so having extra originals is a smart idea.

Consider originals like bullets, spend them well and wisely - I've fought these suckers tooth and claw a couple rounds myself over cases like the ones mentioned.

Funny you should mention Medicare, since my concept solution to the whole blasted stupidity would be to simply open it to everyone - since we already pay for it, expand and refine is as we go, and cut those insurance pricks right out of the picture.

And coulda done THAT in six weeks, instead of six months to six years, which the folk who need this the most often do not have left.

-F

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 1:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Ah. Thanks Wulf. I thought that might have been what you meant, but I wasn't entirely sure. Yes, I agree with you.

Kwicko, no offense or nothing, but whether or not Wulf is a Libertarian, or a conservative... He didn't say something you agree with? I thought all of us were a little bit apprehensive about what mandatory insurance could mean. At least there's talk going on about anti-trust now, so maybe insurance companies won't be able to take advantage like I thought.

Oh, no offense taken. It's just kinda hard trying to nail Wulf down to any position, because he seems to constantly be shifting the things he finds unacceptable.

Mandatory insurance is a scam, plain and simple. It's a scam when it's auto insurance, and it's an even bigger scam when it's health insurance. Let's face it, you CAN choose not to own or drive a car; you can't really CHOOSE not to be alive. Trust me - Dr. Kavorkian went to prison for helping people make that choice. :)

Mike

Let the wild rumpus start!

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 1:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Funny you should mention Medicare, since my concept solution to the whole blasted stupidity would be to simply open it to everyone - since we already pay for it, expand and refine is as we go, and cut those insurance pricks right out of the picture.

And coulda done THAT in six weeks, instead of six months to six years, which the folk who need this the most often do not have left.

-F

Yup. And make it non-profit - it's geared toward HEALTH CARE, not profits and bonuses for stockholders.

You don't even have to outlaw insurance companies - you can have supplemental insurance, you can option up at your cost, and it will FORCE the insurance industry to actually be COMPETITIVE.

What's funny is that, by law, Vegas casinos only get to keep 15% of their total take as profits. Insurance companies are keeping over 30%. In other words, you'd be better off going to the casino with your insurance money. You know, the casino, where it's said, "The house ALWAYS wins."

Pretty pathetic, really.

Mike

Let the wild rumpus start!

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 1:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

And I agree 100% about mandatory--it scares me. I'm already on Medicare so it's a moot point, but for the rest of America... Far as I'm concerned: No public option, no mandatory insurance!!! One without the other would be unconscionable!

Absolutely agreed.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 1:45 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Funny you should mention Medicare, since my concept solution to the whole blasted stupidity would be to simply open it to everyone

I have some spare "Medicare for Everyone" bumperstickers (with one of those "ribbon" symbols in RW&B) after handing them out liberally (heh!) to like-minded peeps. Want one????

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 2:08 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"Oh, no offense taken. It's just kinda hard trying to nail Wulf down to any position, because he seems to constantly be shifting the things he finds unacceptable."

Hello,

It is inspiring to watch a flower grow in the sun.

Don't stomp on it before it blooms.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 3:11 PM

Niki, Sig, Frem, thanks so much. I gave him your suggestions, we'll see what happens.

If all else fails, I offered to help pay, somehow, I don't know how much he owes or how much this new procedure will cost, but just sitting by while he dies, because of something stupid that's easily fixable, I can't do that. I've known him for ten years, he got me into firefly in the first place.

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 4:23 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

It's not 'logic'. It's statistics. I'd bet that statistics show that, on the average, children of a certain age that are either a certain amount overweight or underweight have health problems that would cause their health insurance premiums to be higher than most folk in their insurance pool would be willing to pay. I'm pretty certain that the parents of these children can find someone to insure them at a somewhat higher rate.

If you want to chip in to help them, I'm sure you can. If you want to chip in and help everyone in a similar situation, write your congressperson and expect your taxes to go up. Nothing is free.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 4:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
It's not 'logic'. It's statistics. I'd bet that statistics show that, on the average, children of a certain age that are either a certain amount overweight or underweight have health problems that would cause their health insurance premiums to be higher than most folk in their insurance pool would be willing to pay.

See, it's comments like this that make you seem like a *DICK*. If that's your intent, more power to ya. But if you want approval from the community at large, stop defending mindless computerized corporatism.
Just my 2 credits.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 5:15 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I'm pretty certain that the parents of these children can find someone to insure them at a somewhat higher rate.

ahhh... ahhHHH... aaAHHHHHH... AHHHHHH!!!... BULLSHOID!

'Scuse me! That was a sneeze, not a comment!

You should try it sometime Geezer.

Also, you might want to think about WHY I know so much about Social Security and Medicaid. (HINT: It has something to do with a disabled adult daughter who no longer qualifies for my insurance.)

In addition, my MIL came to live with us post-divorce. She had a "pre-existing condition" (migraines) and we simply could not find an insurance company that would insure her at ANY price.

So, your comfortable assumption really doesn't hold up.

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 5:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
So, your comfortable assumption really doesn't hold up.

...and it's all about comfort.
Let's see if Geeze can admit his particular argumentitive comfort zone, or if he recedes into his defensiveness once again.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 6:34 PM

It looks like things already shifted in the conversation, so I hope you don't mind if I post an update. Turns out I was behind the curve, my friend was already talking to Social Security today, and they told him the same thing about Federal disability and he meets the requirements, plus with the atrophied lung... He's probably going to get it this time, so yeah. :)

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 7:57 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Tell him not to let the pressure off until he has a formal decision or a judges ruling in his hand.

Very important, that, and make sure to have photocopies of it on hand every time he goes to deal with these berks.

-F

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 8:12 PM

Okay, I will. Thanks again.

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Friday, October 23, 2009 2:47 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
So, your comfortable assumption really doesn't hold up.

Well, actually reading the stories rather than jumping to conclusions, the family with the overweight boy did have health insurance which included the child, but their premiums went up 40% when he was born so they were shopping for cheaper. The case of the underweight girl is similar, with the father having company insurance that covered her prior to going self-employed and looking for new coverage. BTW, per the Denver media both children are now insured.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, October 23, 2009 3:10 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
See, it's comments like this that make you seem like a *DICK*. If that's your intent, more power to ya. But if you want approval from the community at large, stop defending mindless computerized corporatism.
Just my 2 credits.

Yeah. I should just join the rant about the evil insurance monsters who undoubtedly pop the bubbly every time they deny coverage, and demand that the government require that they insure everyone and cut everyone's rates and hire more staff at good wages to provide more personal service to everyone. Then we could all sing Kumbaya. That'd be real nice, but there's not any way it can actually happen. Insurance for everyone is gonna cost everyone more money (except the folks the government gives it to for free, which ain't gonna be you or me).

I got no problem with the price going up a bit to cover the folk who fall outside the actuarial tables, I'm just kind'a bothered by folks who believe that every company with more than a hundred employees is evil or that extra and probably expensive services and coverage don't come at some price.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, October 23, 2009 3:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
I'm just kind'a bothered by folks who believe that every company with more than a hundred employees is evil

I know how ya feel. I'm kind'a bothered by folks who believe that every company with more than a hundred employees is usually full of goodness & light, forsaking cut throat profit-making decisions in favour of the public good.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, October 23, 2009 4:08 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Has corporate personhood become such an ingrained part of our psyche that we think corporations are people? That they have souls and independent morality? That they can be either good or evil?

Calling corps good or evil is silly.

Corps are indeed businesses whose only purpose is profit. The only way to make a corp behave in a 'good' way is to ensure that the 'good' way is more profitable than the 'evil' way.

As for popping champagne bottles when they deny coverage... of course they don't do that.

Rather, they pop champagne bottles when they cut costs or eliminate losses... which may come as a result of denying coverage to certain people.

I have no doubt that the Free Market has a solution for people with expensive and unprofitable medical conditions who are looking for insurance. The solution is this: Charge them tons of money.

In a Free Market, the only thing that can save such people is charity. That has never been in question. A Free Market society had better be a charitable one, or every newspaper will be filled with woeful tales.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, October 23, 2009 4:33 AM

RIPWASH

I've been hearing this lately and wanted to do a quick check. Though I'm sure Sig and Rue will claim otherwise - or at least tout how untrustworthy my source is - I found the following graph in a report from the AMA:

This is just a snipet of the entire report which can be found here:

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/368/reportcard.pdf

And I'm sure some here will say that the AMA is a right-leaning organization, but I've heard it's the opposite, so I suppose it's one of those "It depends on who you listen to" kind of thing.

My whole point here is that, by the looks of this report, Medicare, the government run health care, denies a larger amount of claims in terms of percentage than any private insurer. I beleive I'm reading that right, but please correct me if I'm wrong. So to blame "big insurance" for turning down coverage for those that need it? It certainly appears as if your government solution is no better and, in fact, might be an even worse offender.

*********************************************

"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"

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Friday, October 23, 2009 4:57 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

This is fascinating information.

It would seem that governments can't be counted on to have a morality, either.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, October 23, 2009 6:03 AM

RIVERLOVE

This one issue, this one little issue, is driving this country apart, and distracting us from the other issues and dangers we face in this messed-up world. I cannot see what the big problem is with doing the Public Option, or now the Medicare Part Plan. Doctors, nurses, and surgeons are still gonna be all that, and hospitals are still gonna be standing. It's all about who gets to shuffle the damn paperwork. The Govt. 'aint perfect, but they do a lot of things very well. I say the private sector has had too long of an un-challenged profit orgy, and some accountabilty is demanded. A percentage of competition is both healthy and All-American.

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Friday, October 23, 2009 6:18 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I do not mind at all if the government wants to enter the field of competition against private insurers. They can float bonds or stocks to pay for startup expenses. They can offer their insurance at whatever rates they feel reasonable. They can run the thing for profit if they like, using earnings from division A to pay for shortfalls in division B. If everything is optional, if everything is voluntary, and if no one is required by law to participate in any extremity, I think it would be gloriously fantastic.

I have yet to see such a proposal.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, October 23, 2009 7:02 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
BTW, per the Denver media both children are now insured.

But only after intense negative publicity. Just bc Sons of Maxwell got a guitar fix, and Ann Mich got her credit card rate un-hijacked by going viral on youtube doesn't mean No problem! For the few individuals who get paid special attention there are hundreds- if not thousands- who never see their problems redressed. And this is one area I KNOW from personal experience, and so do other peeps on the board. You will not be able to convince us that it is as comfortable as you ASSUME, because we know that it isn't.

Quote:
A Free Market society had better be a charitable one, or every newspaper will be filled with woeful tales.

Oh, I see. In other words... the average person has to dig out out their pocket to save insurance company profits, and profits in general? "We" have to make up for their greed by being nice???

Quote:
I'm just kind'a bothered by folks who believe that every company with more than a hundred employees is evil

EVERY company under curent law is driven by the profit motive, and every publicly-traded company has as their uppermost responsibiity fiduciary duty to their stockholders. What this all means is retaining earnings while transfering costs to "everyone else" by any means possible- including counting on "charity" to try to bandage the wreckage they caused. Its inseparably the nature of the beast, having nothing to do with corruption but everything to do with legalized theft as paradigm.

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Friday, October 23, 2009 7:07 AM

Geezer can be quite vocal about corruption in Darfur, but here at home the corruption inherent in the BUSINESS of insurance seems to elude him.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, October 23, 2009 7:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
BTW, per the Denver media both children are now insured.

Yeah, because the insurance companies got bad press. Not because they're not scumbags.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, October 23, 2009 7:16 AM

OPPYH

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Insurance for everyone is gonna cost everyone more money (except the folks the government gives it to for free, which ain't gonna be you or me).

Yup, how can it not?
Hold on to your wallets, it's going to be a wild ride.

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Friday, October 23, 2009 7:18 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
It looks like things already shifted in the conversation, so I hope you don't mind if I post an update. Turns out I was behind the curve, my friend was already talking to Social Security today, and they told him the same thing about Federal disability and he meets the requirements, plus with the atrophied lung... He's probably going to get it this time, so yeah. :)

Oh, thank... I was gonna say god, but... Social Security!

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Friday, October 23, 2009 7:22 AM

Yeah. You'll never hear me say one bad word about safety nets for life-and-death situations; I think that is one of the most important functions any government or community should have.

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Friday, October 23, 2009 7:27 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

" --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A Free Market society had better be a charitable one, or every newspaper will be filled with woeful tales.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh, I see. In other words... the average person has to dig out out their pocket to save insurance company profits, and profits in general? "We" have to make up for their greed by being nice???"

Hello Signy,

You don't seem to see at all. The average person does not 'have' to do anything in a free market society. Free is an operative word, and it deals with your freedom of action, not the presence of free products and services.

However, in any truly free market (capitalist) environment, people will only be able to provide for themselves what they can afford to provide. People who can't afford what they need must rely on charity to obtain it. Those who cannot afford what they need, and who cannot obtain charity, will hence be a woeful tale in the newspaper.

The alternative is a system where medicine is provided for by the government. If this medicine is supported by taxes, then it is a very similar situation. Charity, in this case, becomes universally mandatory. No one can choose not to give. Those who cannot afford what they need are provided for by the state (charity) and since charity is mandatory, everyone who needs it gets it.

In either case, you are providing charity to make up for shortfalls in the system. In one case, the charity is at gunpoint.

You must decide what form of charity you are most comfortable with. Voluntary, or Involuntary.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, October 23, 2009 7:41 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"You must decide what form of charity you are most comfortable with. Voluntary, or Involuntary."

Damn, dude. That was perfect.

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Friday, October 23, 2009 8:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Geezer can be quite vocal about corruption in Darfur, but here at home the corruption inherent in the BUSINESS of insurance seems to elude him.

He can be quite vocally against a lot, until those convictions become inconvenient.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, October 23, 2009 8:07 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
You must decide what form of charity you are most comfortable with. Voluntary, or Involuntary.

No, you "must" not. That's a false dilemma.

I don't look to charity to ameliorate a situation that shouldn't exist in the first place. We should be wringing corporations.. or better yet, abolishing their current charters... so that people are not MADE poor by their practices.

Do you recall the story of the washerwomen at the river bank, seeing a drowning baby drift past?? They rescue the one, and then another, but soon there are dozens of babies struggling and drifting downriver. So the women form a line, snatching as many babies as they can, handing them over to the next and the next and so on to the river bank, doing their best to save as many as they can and weeping for the ones who're lost.

That's charity.

And then, to the horror of the women in-line one woman gets out of line and starts running upriver.

"Where are you going????" the others cry, aghast. "We need your help!'

"I'm going to find the bastard who's throwing them in!"

That's what I want.

It took me years to figure out the following quote. I hope it doesn't take you as long:

PITY WOULD BE NO MORE IF WE DID NOT MAKE MEN POOR.

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Friday, October 23, 2009 8:22 AM

JONGSSTRAW

We don't need money. All we need is love. We will all love when millions of current and new illegal border-crossers with illnesses line up to get the best care our tax dollars can provide. Oh that's wrong the Dems say!...no non-citizens allowed in plan they say! You can see it in the bill they say! I see, most impressive... but is there ANY ID or Verification of US citizenship going to be required to enforce that law to help prevent identity fraud in Govt. healthcare? Nah. The Dems struck down that little section. Just come on in, everybody one and all! It's all about the love, baby! Saving everyone on the planet from death from illness is our loving responsibilty. Just work harder and longer. You won't miss what they take.

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Friday, October 23, 2009 8:29 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Imma hafta side with Siggy on this one.

Why the hell should I have to deal with some middleman to get healthcare when they're the bastards who drove the costs up in order to justify their existence in the first fuckin place ?

And frankly, we ALREADY paid for Medicare.

You look at how much money we blow EVERY day on a pair of stupid, ridiculous and pointless wars, an arsenal so destructive we can't even use it, and a bunch of politicians howling and wailing about legislation so convoluted even the lawyers can barely comprehend it - all of which costs a gargantuan sum of money, mind you...

If we rolled back the clock, took the money ALREADY WASTED ON THIS "DEBATE" ALONE, and sunk it into reinforcing and expanding the Medicare infrastructure - this problem WOULD ALREADY BE SOLVED, and for a comparative pittance.

Fuck the insurance companies, they have no place here - we paid for it, pay for it some more with every check, and cutting those pricks out of the picture would save enough money to pay the entire bloody cost of it for fifty and more years if you could keep the Congressional pork barrel pigs off it, which is a dubious prospect at best - but that problem arises with any other solution as well.

Common sense has not prevailed here.

I want what I already paid for, instead of paying to pay for it again via insurance, and then pay AGAIN via co-pay, fuck that bullshit, admin costs ALONE chew up more than it'd cost to do this right.

And to hell if I think mandatory insurance would ever be a good idea since I have to keep a reserve to cover an accident and damage because I cannot TRUST them to even obey the law, much less keep to the agreement, and nor can I trust those who enforce that law - a lesson that cost me most of a leg and a good bit of my health besides.

You MIGHT do well to remember that my condition was caused more directly by the fucking insurance companies, both automotive and medical, than the accident or medical incompetence - and that I would not be sitting here in a wheelchair, in pain, and dreading the inevitable suffering imma have to face trying to do my job, if not for a dynamic they created to profit only themselves at our cost.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Friday, October 23, 2009 8:42 AM