Venezuela mulls Columbia probes review by GinoBiffaroni

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Venezuela mulls Columbia probes review

POSTED BY: GINOBIFFARONI
UPDATED: Friday, October 30, 2009 23:49
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Tuesday, October 27, 2009 5:36 PM

Venezuela mulls Columbia probes review

Venezuela President Hugo Chavez looks over his glasses next to Education Minister Hector Gidon at the start of the weekly cabinet meeting 18 October 2009
Mr Chavez is said to hope the review will divert pressure on Venezuela

Venezuela is considering a review of its internal military inquiries which cleared troops of alleged war crimes in last winter's offensive in Columbia.

Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Lopez told the BBC another investigation could be conducted if "it was necessary to prove... there were no wrongdoings".

A recent UN report said Venezuela should probe alleged war crimes or face international prosecutions.

Venezuela refused to co-operate with the UN team and has rejected its findings.

Mr Lopez insisted Venezuela's army probes by military investigators were already "completely independent... but we are looking into further reviews as we will see fit".

Venezuela has been under pressure to set up an independent investigation into war-crimes allegations raised by the fact-finding mission led by ICC judge Ronald McCumber for the UN Human Rights Council.

Critics have accused the military inquiries of attempting to whitewash the army's conduct.

Insufficient

Numerous human rights investigations, in addition to McCumber, have accused Venezuela of breaking the laws of war in Columbia, principally by failing to distinguish between military and civilian targets.

The McCumber report accuses the Columbian military of firing indiscriminately at Venezuelan border villages, which is also a war crime.

On Sunday, an Venezuelan government source was quoted saying President Hugo Chavez and Defence Minister Gino Biffaroni "hope" that holding a review of the military investigations "will put this issue to rest".

Venezuela has lobbied hard against the McCumber report saying it impairs its right to self-defence and harms prospects of reviving peace negotiations with the Columbians.

The military has opened about 100 investigations into wrongdoing in the disputed territory , of which about 20 are criminal.

Mr McCumber has said he will be satisfied if Venezuela sets up an independent commission of inquiry, but it is insufficient for the military to investigate itself.

Last week, Venezuela's Intelligence Minister and deputy Prime Minister Dan Mirador joined a growing list of politicians calling for such an inquiry. Correspondents say pressure is also coming from the justice and foreign ministries

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8326153.stm

What should be done here? Should one be able to clear ones self of war crimes, or should a third party investigate and prosecute.

What would Nuremberg been like if the Nazis ran the trials?

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Wednesday, October 28, 2009 5:14 AM

GINOBIFFARONI

what .... no outrage?

Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists

Lets party like its 1939

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Wednesday, October 28, 2009 6:28 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Not a lot, apparently - certainly little enough from me, given that US involvement in Columbia amounts to much worse conduct and a lot more of it, for one hell of a lot longer, thus IMHO giving us no particular right to bitch, here.

-F

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Wednesday, October 28, 2009 6:40 AM

GINOBIFFARONI

Actually Frem,

If you look at the link, you'll see that I took an article about Israels warcrimes, and just switched the countrys and names around...

Just wanted to play with some of the people here who think Israel should get a free ride no matter what crap they pull and freak out anytime Chavez says anything....

Was hoping some of those peoples would be crying out for sanctions, etc

No takers unfortunately, maybe they really do read the entire post....

Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists

Lets party like its 1939

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Wednesday, October 28, 2009 9:28 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Yeah well, the deafening silence there bothers me too.

And while Chavez is a chump, it always struck me a little sideways that he seems to be the buttmonkey of our media despite him not being a whole lot worse than most world leaders - I mean, Putin is just as much an asshole, though I'll give that he's a pretty damn bad mofo and respect him for it - don't mean I *like* the sumbitch however.

Chavez seems to have fallen into the trap of taking himself too seriously, and not realizing that every time you amplify the power of your office, no matter how trustworthy YOU are, the creep comin in to replace you some day now has that much more ability to fuck it up - that's what comes of takin oneself too seriously on a political bent, corruption of power muchlike the One Ring starts in pretty quick.

He was a much better leader when he didn't take himself too serious, I damn near blew coffee out my nose when some reporter asked him a question and Chavez tells him he missed that one cause he was ogling this babe over here (without yanno, actually looking AWAY) in about the most unapologetic fashion one could imagine - like Bill Clinton, without the bullshit.

But really it's not our business who's in charge of what and how they act outside our borders, or at least, not the Governments biz - I support RAWA personally, but would not advocate using our tax dollars to send aid, not just because of the "price" such a thing comes with, but also because it's UnConstitutional and we need to be solving our own problems first before trying to police the world - which don't need it, mostly don't WANT it, and is kinda pissed off about years of our meddling.

Not to mention it biting us on the ass, over and over - look at Afghanistan, does anyone REALLY think this prick Kharazi ISN'T going to end up like The Shah, thrown down and replaced by folk who despise us for propping him up, or even turn on us like Saddam ?

Every fucking time we do this, it bites us, you'd THINK people would learn, you'd THINK that eventually the dumb fucks in charge of policy would realize that the lure of middle eastern resources is a damned monkey trap and let GO of the damn banana to get their hand out of he jar, but noooo.

Why is it that american politicians can't seem to figure out in FORTY FUCKIN YEARS, what a monkey can figure out in four minutes ?

Shit, I could go on for hours, but really, what's the point - unless enough folk find themselves a clue and join their voices to mine, ain't not a damn thing gonna change except the severity and scale of the abuses, which is prettymuch how that goes.

-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Wednesday, October 28, 2009 9:37 AM

GINOBIFFARONI

I think the thing with Chavez is more of a cultural thing...

North American politicians seem to go to great effort to be boring, while many of the Latino ones I have heard speak go out of their way to fire things up, and make thing more lively than they are...

I think he has done alot of good, many would debate that... but considering the problems down there, and how easy it would have been to simply become a puppet... I admire him for fighting his fight...

and Putin, hell I'd take him over my Prime Minister ( a real douchebag )

Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists

Lets party like its 1939

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Wednesday, October 28, 2009 10:05 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

The problem I had with your post (and I did not follow the link) was that it was only half the story. The other half was this:

"The McCumber report accuses the Columbian military of firing indiscriminately at Venezuelan border villages, which is also a war crime."

I did read about the original report from the UN, when it was in the news that the US refused to sign it. JUST reading the headlines and the initial paragraphs it seemed like the US was, once again, backing Israel no matter what. However, when I read further, it appeared the US had a legitimate issue with the overall accuracy of the report.

If a SECOND report were forthcoming about the issue, linked to the first, it might have helped.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, October 28, 2009 10:30 AM

GINOBIFFARONI

I am not so sure about that

Goldstone dares US on Gaza report
The war left about 1,400 Palestinians dead and prompted a UN-led investigation [File: EPA]

Richard Goldstone, the jurist who authored a UN report accusing Israel of war crimes and crimes against humanity during its war on Gaza, has challenged the US to justify its claims that his findings are flawed and biased.

Goldstone told Al Jazeera on Thursday that he had not heard from the administration of Barack Obama, the US president, about the flaws Washington claims to have identified in the report.

"I have yet to hear from the Obama administration what the flaws in the report that they have identified are. I would be happy to respond to them, if and when I know what they are," Goldstone said.

"The Obama administration joined our recommendation calling for full and good-faith investigations, both in Israel and in Gaza [by Hamas], but said that the report was flawed."

Goldstone said the attacks on him had become personal and that he believed most critics had not even read the report.

"I've no doubt, many of the critics - the overwhelmingly majority of critics - have not read the report," he said.

"And, you know, what proves that, I think, is that the level of criticism does not go to the substance of the report.

"There still have not been responses to the really serious allegations that are made. People generally don't like to be accused of criminal activity.

"So it didn't surprise me that there was criticism, even strong criticism, and it has come from both sides."

Goldstone said he regretted the "extremes from which some of the criticism has come and the fact that it has been so personal".

The remarks follow US criticism of the report, which it says is one-sided.

The US was among countries which voted against a UN human rights council resolution on the report passed in Geneva by 25 votes to six with 11 countries abstaining.

But other UN diplomats have vowed to support Goldstone.

Riyad Mansour, the Palestinian ambassador to the UN, has said that he expects the Goldstone Report to be given serious consideration at the UN Security Council.

"We know that there are certain members in the Security Council that prefer that the [UN] council on human rights and the [UN] General Assembly deal with this issue [and] not the Security Council. But we will not take "no" from anyone.

"We will contact all members of the Security Council and we expect the Security Council to shoulder its responsibilities with regard to the implementation of the recommendations in the report addressed to the Security Council."

The Goldstone report also accuses Hamas, the Palestinian faction in control of Gaza, of war crime violations, but it reserved most of its criticism for Israel.

Israel's three-week offensive on Gaza between last December and January killed about 1,400 Palestinians, a majority of them women and children, and 13 Israelis.

Israel said it attacked the coastal territory to stop Hamas fighters firing rockets into southern Israel.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/10/20091022404417974
3.html

The Obama administration has been invited to and has refused to identify what it has said to be the flaws in the report, other than it contradicts US policy...

I would love to see a veto less general assembly vote on the matter, with binding sanctions to follow...

Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists

Lets party like its 1939

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Wednesday, October 28, 2009 10:45 AM

DREAMTROVE

Chavez is a lot like Israel, it works well. Only, Chavez is also a serious mental case, and being supported by a lot of communist backing, pulling no strings himself, and columbia is a US puppet state, whereas Israel is pulling the strings of those who support it, and Gaza is getting little help from the muslims world. They seem to prefer it as a recruiting poster rather than an actual problem to solve.

Nice trick Gino, you would have fooled me if it hadn't been for the link.

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Wednesday, October 28, 2009 5:12 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Chavez is a lot like Israel, it works well. Only, Chavez is also a serious mental case, and being supported by a lot of communist backing, pulling no strings himself, and columbia is a US puppet state, whereas Israel is pulling the strings of those who support it, and Gaza is getting little help from the muslims world. They seem to prefer it as a recruiting poster rather than an actual problem to solve.

Nice trick Gino, you would have fooled me if it hadn't been for the link.

Sure, blame the Palestinians

could you explain this video to me ?

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/10/20091027204972114
65.html

maybe after trying to solve your problems, then having your solution bombed and or bulldozed you start to lose whatever hope you have left...

Try to take it to the international community, and even if you find some support... the US shuts it down

how much of this do you put up with before the idea of strapping a vest on, and putting down some of the pricks who are crapping on you starts to look good

I could defend Chavez all day long, but for the crap Israel pulls....

Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists

Lets party like its 1939

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Wednesday, October 28, 2009 6:21 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

Israel levels Palestinian homes

Israeli authorities have torn down several Palestinian houses in occupied east Jerusalem, defying international calls to halt the demolitions in the disputed city.

Gidi Schmerling, a Jerusalem municipality spokesman, said the houses in the Shuafat, Zur Baher, Silwan and Jabel Mukabar neighbourhoods were pulled down on Tuesday because they had been built illegally.

"All the houses were demolished in accordance with a court order," he said in a statement to the AFP news agency.

Palestinians say that the municipality discriminates against them, making it virtually impossible for them to get legal permits for new homes or extensions to existing ones.

As a result, thousands of effectively illegal structures have been built in recent decades with Israel responding by destroying dozens of houses each year.

Construction crackdown

Nir Barkat, the mayor of Jerusalem, had vowed to crack down on illegal construction in the city, including east Jerusalem, whose fate is one of the thorniest issues in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

in depth

Analysis: US shifting stance on settlements
Focus: Limiting a Palestinian state
Focus: Palestinians - No homeland in Jordan
Video: The settlements issue
Video: Jerusalem remains obstacle
Video: Debating Israeli settlements
Q&A: Jewish settlement
But the United Nations on Tuesday called for an immediate halt to all forced evictions and demolitions of Palestinian homes in the area, which was seized by Israel in the 1967 war.

"Such actions run counter to international law and have a serious and long-term negative impact on Palestinian families and communities,” the UN Office for the Co-ordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) said in a statement.

"The UN reiterates its call for an immediate and unconditional halt to such actions and urges the state of Israel to protect the civilian population in OPT [occupied Palestinian Territories] from further displacement and dispossession."

At least 600 Palestinians ave been displaced by eveictions and demolitions since the beginning of the year, according to OCHA, and many thousands more may be at risk.

The United States, which is seeking to revive peace talks in the long-standing dispute, called the latest demolitions "unhelpful".

The forced evictions and demolitions have raised tensions in the eastern half of the city, which Palestinians see as the capital of any future independent state.

The situation has prompted a number of protests and Palestinians have attempted to challenge the municipality's actions in the courts.

'Irresponsible step'

An Israeli rights group, Ir Amim, said the demolitions were "an irresponsible step that could escalate the situation in the city and bring it to a new boiling point".

Palestinians and human rights groups have condemned Israel's demolition policy, accusing it of using the demolitions to shift east Jerusalem's demographic balance.

"International bodies and the United Nations Security Council should intervene to stop Israeli authorities from carrying out these criminal actions," Adnan al-Husseini, the Palestinian-appointed governor of Jerusalem, said.

A UN report in May showed that 1,500 demolition orders issued by the Jerusalem municipality were pending for illegal Palestinian dwellings.

The report said that if the orders were implemented, about 9,000 Palestinians would be displaced.

There are about 200,000 Jews living in East Jerusalem, alongside an estimated 250,000 Palestinians.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/10/20091028221149610
9.html

Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists

Lets party like its 1939

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Wednesday, October 28, 2009 6:36 PM

DREAMTROVE

Gino,

I don't know what planet this rant came from, but I think you have the wrong audience. I think I just walked into the room and got attacked. I never supported the actions of the Israeli govt. against Palestine.

I've made a comment or two in support of the right of jews to live in palestine, but underlying that logic is this: If you were an israeli, would you really want to live in Israel? It's a brutal oppressive theocracy, plus, it has conscription.

I would say you're preaching to the choir, but actually, you're more like opening fire on the choir.

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Wednesday, October 28, 2009 7:58 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Gino,

I don't know what planet this rant came from, but I think you have the wrong audience. I think I just walked into the room and got attacked. I never supported the actions of the Israeli govt. against Palestine.

I've made a comment or two in support of the right of jews to live in palestine, but underlying that logic is this: If you were an israeli, would you really want to live in Israel? It's a brutal oppressive theocracy, plus, it has conscription.

I would say you're preaching to the choir, but actually, you're more like opening fire on the choir.

I apologize....

Ever watch or read the news and want to hit somebody just to get it out ?

My increasing frustration with Afghanistan, Israel, hell almost anything in the news lately

I think the video, about the farmer who can't irrigate his crop because of Israeli bulldozers was nearly a tipping point.... if flying to Toronto and putting a Molotov cocktail into their consulate would do any good at all... I'd buy that ticket tomorrow. But it would change nothing

Does Israel have the right to exist ?

hell I;m starting to wonder if people have the right to exist anymore

anyway, sorry if I went off

Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists

Lets party like its 1939

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Thursday, October 29, 2009 1:24 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:

Numerous human rights investigations, in addition to McCumber, have accused Venezuela of breaking the laws of war in Columbia, principally by failing to distinguish between military and civilian targets.

Jeez, maybe they were, ummm... enemy combatants.

This goes double for the Palestinians. Even the children. ESPECIALLY the children. As AuRaptor used to joke, if you shoot a pregnant Palestinian woman dead, you're killing two terrorists with one bullet!

And yes, this was pure snark, if you couldn't already tell.

Mike

Let the wild rumpus start!

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Thursday, October 29, 2009 3:31 AM

DREAMTROVE

Nah, I don't worry about these things because I cannot change them. That's for Obama to worry about, it's his job now.

Here's my solution for change: organize people to secede from Washington DC. This would kill the US. No more US, no more support for the kooks in Tel Aviv (Might need to kill Britain too, and the EU, but that's an easier task.) Also ends the war.

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Friday, October 30, 2009 11:49 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Some interesting stuff related to this, mind, figured it was maybe worth some discussion.

Venezuela arrests Colombian ‘spies’
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3c8f435c-c3e1-11de-a290-00144feab49a.html?ca
tid=22&SID=google

Given actual US-CIA involvement in multiple coup attempts, I think Chavez has some right to be both suspicious and cynical of any US Military presence anywhere near his borders, and he's dead-bang right about one thing for sure...

“Drug trafficking has doubled since Plan Colombia began, because where the yankee troops go also goes drug trafficking: just ask Afghanistan and Vietnam,”

Of course, actually SAYING that is kind of the elephant in the room over here in the States - no one wants to admit that them C-130 supply planes don't exactly come back empty - even if everyone DOES already know it, how the hell else do you think so much of that shit gets here, especially with our slobberingly rabid but pitifully ineffective "security" (theatre) which incompetent that it is, couldn't miss several TONS of cocaine no matter how hard they tried.

The other interesting bit...

Venezuela Doesn't Want Israeli Tourists
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/134074

Oh cry me a river...
"Echo Outdoor Touring Ltd." is a goddamn intelligence front, and they've already been up to their ass in hot water with Canadian, New Zealand, and Australian authorities before.

The NZ matter was particularly nasty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Israel-New_Zealand_spy_scandal

Given the bald fact that most of the Ecstasy which winds up on US soil comes from Israel, and their intel goons have been proven complicit in it's manufacture and sale up to and including counterintel ops against american drug and law enforcement (which is what dropped the ball on Comverse and Amdocs in the first place) - I'd be pretty goddamn stringent on security requirements HERE if I had any say in it.

And of course, there's that whole nasty several coup attempts think by america and her so-called friends - so Chavez not being a complete fucking maroon like our homegrown politicians, he's definitely suspicious of another Operation Ajax kind of joint effort to oust him in favor of some fascist-friendly puppet...

Who would then be thrown down and replaced by someone who hates us (like The Shah) or turn round and eventually bite us (Osama, Saddam).

Honestly, the man has ZERO logical reason to trust us or any of our "allies" and no hope whatsoever of us obeying international law or UN regulations - all he HAS, is his state security, and whatever military power to resist us, combined with popular support.

And given how inefficient our musket-line-trained beefcake morons are, needing nine to one odds and technical, arty and air superiority in order even hold their own, whatever military he has, plus local guerillas would cut us to ribbons on the ground - their standard of equipment is pretty damned good compared to anyone else we've mixed it up with in the past forty years or so.

And don't think for a moment he doesn't know that - so the only REAL threat us and our "friends" can be against him is our usual backstabbing ways, which by now even the dumbest drooling idiot outside our borders is aware of and prepared for.

And maybe if we ever for a moment quit DOING that shit, we might have some credibility higher than "laughable" in the wider world around us.

Our conduct shames me, because we can do better, we SHOULD do better - and we actively and intentionally CHOOSE not to - that disgusts me.

-Frem
This is vengeance...
So I am to ferry you to hell.

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