REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Gender-bender foods, drugs, clothes cause millions of boys to be born as girls

POSTED BY: PIRATENEWS
UPDATED: Monday, November 9, 2009 03:05
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Friday, November 6, 2009 9:42 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Why boys are turning into girls

Here's something rather rotten from the State of Denmark. Its government yesterday unveiled official research showing that two-year-old children are at risk from a bewildering array of gender-bending chemicals in such everyday items as waterproof clothes, rubber boots, bed linen, food, nappies, sunscreen lotion and moisturising cream.

The 326-page report, published by the environment protection agency, is the latest piece in an increasingly alarming jigsaw. A picture is emerging of ubiquitous chemical contamination driving down sperm counts and feminising male children all over the developed world. And anti-pollution measures and regulations are falling far short of getting to grips with it.

Sperm counts are falling so fast that young men are less fertile than their fathers and produce only a third as much, proportionately, as hamsters. And gender-bending chemicals are increasingly being blamed for the mystery of the "lost boys": babies who should normally be male who have been born as girls instead.

The Danish government set out to find out how much contamination from gender-bending chemicals a two-year-old child was exposed to every day. It concluded that a child could be "at critical risk" from just a few exposures to high levels of the substances, such as from rubber clogs, and imperilled by the amount it absorbed from sources ranging from food to sunscreens.

The results build on earlier studies showing that British children have higher levels of gender-bending chemicals in their blood than their parents or grandparents. Indeed WWF (formerly the World Wildlife Fund), which commissioned the older research, warned that the chemicals were so widespread that "there is very little, if anything, individuals can do to prevent contamination of themselves and their families." Prominent among them are dioxins, PVC, flame retardants, phthalates (extensively used to soften plastics) and the now largely banned PCBs, one and a half million tons of which were used in countless products from paints to electrical equipment.

Young boys, like those in the Danish study, could end up producing less sperm and developing feminised behaviour. Research at Rotterdam's Erasmus University found that boys whose mothers were exposed to PCBs and dioxins were more likely to play with dolls and tea sets and dress up in female clothes.

And it is in the womb that babies are most vulnerable; a study of umbilical cords from British mothers found that every one contained hazardous chemicals. Scientists at the University of Rochester in New York discovered that boys born to women exposed to phthalates had smaller penises and other feminisation of the genitals.

The contamination may also offer a clue to a mysterious shift in the sex of babies. Normally 106 boys are born for every 100 girls: it is thought to be nature's way of making up for the fact that men were more likely to be killed hunting or in conflict. But the proportion of females is rising, so much so that some 250,000 babies who statistically should have been boys have ended up as girls in Japan and the United States alone. In Britain, the discrepancy amounts to thousands of babies a year.

Yet gender-benders are largely exempt from new EU regulations controlling hazardous chemicals. Britain, then under Tony Blair's premiership, was largely responsible for this – restricting their inclusion in the first draft of the legislation, and then causing even what was included to be watered down.Confidential documents show that it did so after pressure from George W Bush's administration, which protested that US exports "could be impacted".

www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthcomment/geoffrey-lean/6418553/Why-boys-
are-turning-into-girls.html



That would explain why no men fired back at the alleged shooter at Ft Hood. A man-hating lesbian had to do it.


Women turn into drunken lesbian men
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1222090/Reveller-pictured-knickers-an
kles-shocking-scene-UKs-streets-shame.html

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1225341/She-looks-innocent-respecta
ble-job--Holly-generation-women-drunken-violence-just-night-out.html

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Friday, November 6, 2009 10:54 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!




Tests Reveal Gender-Bender Poison in Nearly All Campbell's Soup

The food processing world is reeling right now one day after a shocking new series of tests released by Consumer Reports revealed that many leading brands of canned foods contain Bisphenol A (BPA)—a toxic chemical linked to health risks including reproductive abnormalities, neurological effects, heightened risk of breast and prostate cancers, diabetes, heart disease and other serious health problems.

BPA is used in the lining of cans and the toxin leaches from the lining into the food. According to Consumer Reports just a couple of servings of canned food can exceed scientific limits on daily exposure for children.

The federal government is currently studying the dangers of BPA and advocates are calling on the FDA to ban the use of BPA in food and beverage packaging by the end of the year. Companies in other industries, including Wal-Mart, Target, Nalgene, and Babies R Us have already made commitments to stop using BPA.

The food industry, however, is fighting hard to stop any government regulation. They say it is too logistically complicated to move away from BPA-lined cans. And it is true that right now there isn’t a good way to produce cans without BPA. But alternative packaging does exist. You may have heard of glass, to take just one example.

That’s why we’ve just started a petition asking Campbell’s, the largest canned soup manufacturer, to live up to its new “nourishing people's lives everywhere, every day” slogan and lead this industry move away from the use of BPA laden packaging.

www.change.org/actions/view/campbells_soup_stop_poisoning_our_food

http://food.change.org/blog/view/tests_reveal_poison_in_nearly_all_cam
pbells_soup


www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine-archive/december-2009/food/bpa/ov
erview/bisphenol-a-ov.htm

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Saturday, November 7, 2009 3:14 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"But the proportion of females is rising"

Hello,

Finally, science that I can get behind.

Literally.

--Anthony


"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Saturday, November 7, 2009 4:05 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Damn, I knew I shoulda put 355's number on speed dial...

-F

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Saturday, November 7, 2009 5:00 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Environmental Working Group, which also did a groundbreaking study of phthalates in shampoos, cosmetics etc (disclaimer: and an organization I support) did this study of BPA leached from cans into food:


http://www.ewg.org/reports/bisphenola

EWG's tests found:

* Of all foods tested, chicken soup, infant formula, and ravioli had BPA levels of highest concern. Just one to three servings of foods with these concentrations could expose a woman or child to BPA at levels that caused serious adverse effects in animal tests.
* For 1 in 10 cans of all food tested, and 1 in 3 cans of infant formula, a single serving contained enough BPA to expose a woman or infant to BPA levels more than 200 times the government's traditional safe level of exposure for industrial chemicals. The government typically mandates a 1,000- to 3,000-fold margin of safety between human exposures and levels found to harm lab animals, but these servings contained levels of BPA less than 5 times lower than doses that harmed lab animals.



HOWEVER - there are an estimated 60,000 man-made chemicals today (American Chemical Society, disclaimer: a professional organization of which I am a member) that did not exist until the last 60 years, or that existed in very small quantities in limited locations (dioxins). And less than one or two dozen have been studied. This is due to the STUPID notion that anything which makes a profit for some rich asshole must be proven BAD before it can be regulated. Not that these chemicals must be proven GOOD alone and in combination with others before they can be sold. Because, god forbid that environmental and human health get between an asshole and money.

But hell: Down with regulation ! Let's hear it for capitalism !


***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Saturday, November 7, 2009 10:52 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important



"But hell: Down with regulation ! Let's hear it for capitalism!"

Hello,

Recent products from China suggest that capitalist regimes are hardly unique in this regard.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Saturday, November 7, 2009 11:25 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


You are not of the "China is becoming an unregulated entrepreneurial capitalist economy" school of thought ?

BTW - the products coming from China - melamine-contaminated dog food, lead-painted toys, heparin doctored with an over-sulfated derivative of chondroitin sulfate, melamine contaminated milk (mostly a problem internal to China), and sulfide-contaminated drywall - were all manufactured by private firms and without significant regulation - hallmarks of capitalism, not socialism or communism.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Saturday, November 7, 2009 11:29 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I must have been enjoying a misconception about the governmental and economic policies of China.

I did not realize they were capitalists.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Saturday, November 7, 2009 11:53 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

I must have been enjoying a misconception about the governmental and economic policies of China.

I did not realize they were capitalists.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner



You've got it all wrong - they're CAPITALISTS when someone refers to China as evidence that communism can produce strong economies. They're COMMUNISTS when people try to point out the damage their capitalism is doing.

As all nations on Earth are today, they're some of both, with a dash of socialism thrown in as well.

Mike

Let the wild rumpus start!

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Saturday, November 7, 2009 1:36 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I must admit to also being confused about China's level of regulation. I was under the impression they regulated everything that was important to the government. I remember watching a show about China and the citizenry was complaining (politely) about the level of government intervention in their lives and business.

If that was true, and if what Rue says is true, then I have to come to a conclusion.

China has a government with heavily regulated systems for both individual citizens and corporations.

They just don't give a shit about people, so human safety isn't one of the things they feel strongly about regulating from what I can tell.

And in fact, I have trouble thinking of any government I've been exposed to in my life whose primary concern was the well-being of the people.

Governments and 'Unregulated Capitalist Corporations' have similar motivations achieved through similar methods. Rue mistrusts Corporations, and I mistrust Governments.

I think we're on the same page and reading different paragraphs.

--Anthony





"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Saturday, November 7, 2009 8:28 PM

PERFESSERGEE


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,


(Selective Quotations:)


I must admit to also being confused about China's level of regulation. I was under the impression they regulated everything that was important to the government.

They just don't give a shit about people, so human safety isn't one of the things they feel strongly about regulating from what I can tell.

Rue mistrusts Corporations, and I mistrust Governments.

I think we're on the same page and reading different paragraphs.

--Anthony



I never, ever thought I'd post in agreement with a PN post, but he's actually (partly) right on this one. There are thousands of synthesized chemicals that mimic the "female" estrogenic hormones. I use quotation marks B/C males have them as well, just not as much. And too much exposure leads to problems for both sexes.

But as for the issue with China, we have the worst of all possible cases. There is extremely strong regulation of personal issues (politics, religion, family size, etc.), but virtually no regulation of anything to do with the environment. Add to that a hideously aggressive get-rich economics based on extreme corruption and connections with the ruling regime, and you get the absolute worst of totalitarianism and capitalism at the same time. A truly vile blend.

And then they just execute the current export offenders and sell their organs. Words fail...........

perfessergee

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Sunday, November 8, 2009 3:56 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


It sounds almost like runaway capitalism, that oft-dreamt-of unregulated free market kind that the conservatives so desperately want for the rest of us.

Mike

Let the wild rumpus start!

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Sunday, November 8, 2009 4:52 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
It sounds almost like runaway capitalism, that oft-dreamt-of unregulated free market kind that the conservatives so desperately want for the rest of us.

Mike

Let the wild rumpus start!





Hello,

It may sound that way, Mike, but don't forget that the oft-dreampt of 'free market' was always meant to exist in a 'free society' where the consumer, employee, and competitor could exercise their freedoms, and apply pressure on the system in various ways.

This is not the case in China.

No, China is a system where the government is essentially setting up all the rules and barriers in a way that gives as little freedom to anyone as possible.

Runaway capitalism? No, since the corporations' actions are controlled, this isn't the case. Since the people's actions are controlled, this isn't the case. Since competition is controlled, this isn't the case.

Everything is controlled, it's simply not controlled from a perspective that improves the well-being of the individual citizen. They don't control for environmental factors because they don't give a shit, not because they're not controlling businesses (and the consumer) in a hundred other ways.

--Anthony


"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Sunday, November 8, 2009 5:58 AM

BYTEMITE


I agree with the "don't give a shit" part and also point out again the artifact of bribery in Communist China.

Businesses are regulated, but it doesn't really matter because you can grease the wheels and do whatever you want.

I'm not sure if you can give bribes to protect yourself, however, if as a business or personally your politics or lifestyle don't agree with government policy.

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Sunday, November 8, 2009 6:07 AM

BYTEMITE


These are good articles, PN. The issue of reproductive hormone imitating chemicals is a serious danger to our future as a species.

I'm not sure that femininizing hormones work the other way and can be toted as an explanation for lesbianism, though, nor am I entirely sure it explains homosexuality, or even (and I hate this word) metrosexuality.

I think internalized gender roles and sexual orientation may be two different things. Transvestite males are actually often straight.

I also point out, having now read the articles about alcohol, women rowdiness, and drinking, that I really don't see how it has to do with lesbianism. I also point out that the source seems to be from a British website that appears to be right in line with lauding a ban on the public consumption of alcohol, citing violent crime as the concern while giving no EVIDENCE of violent crime having occurred.

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Sunday, November 8, 2009 6:53 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
I'm not sure that femininizing hormones work the other way and can be toted as an explanation for lesbianism, though, nor am I entirely sure it explains homosexuality, or even (and I hate this word) metrosexuality.

I think internalized gender roles and sexual orientation may be two different things. Transvestite males are actually often straight.


It doesn't account for any of those things. Nor does it account for those so-called 'lost boys' he mentions, commonly known as hermaphrodites or transgenders. The cause of males developing into females is not too many female hormones, but an inability of their bodies to respond to male hormones. This isn't something new, either, there have been hermaphrodites for all of human memory. There are different levels of androgen insensitivity, some of which are mild and cause some rather gender-bending genitalia. Other forms are complete, meaning virtually no male hormones are absorbed. This creates a person who appears in all ways female, with little or no body hair. These women do technically have an XY chromosome, something generally not discovered until they reach puberty and fail to menstruate. Removal of what would have been their testicles is usually done at this time to prevent them becoming cancerous, which happens in 99.99% of cases.
Androgen insensitivity is believed to be caused by a mutation in one of the chromosomes. About 7 times out of 10 that sort of mutation will cause a miscarriage, or if not a total miscarriage then a premature birth. If there's been a rise in androgen insensitivity syndrome, it's likely due to the increasing number of medical advances that allow babies born prematurely to survive, where in times past they would never have survived. That is if there's an actual rise. I haven't seen anything to indicate that there has been.

[/sig]

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Sunday, November 8, 2009 7:15 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:

It may sound that way, Mike, but don't forget that the oft-dreampt of 'free market' was always meant to exist in a 'free society' where the consumer, employee, and competitor could exercise their freedoms, and apply pressure on the system in various ways.

This is not the case in China.



This is not the case in any nation I can think of.

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Sunday, November 8, 2009 9:28 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

This would explain the political activism on the part of various libertarians to create the environment most suitable to their ideals.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Sunday, November 8, 2009 11:33 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

This would explain the political activism on the part of various libertarians to create the environment most suitable to their ideals.



You mean to make our capitalism more closely resemble Chinese capitalism? Get rid of all the regulations, bring in tort reform so that reckless capitalists don't even have to pay for their "mistakes", and still allow them to just declare bankruptcy and walk away when someone DOES try to hold them accountable for putting short-term profits first and foremost? Is that the ideal libertarian environment that you speak of?

Mike

Let the wild rumpus start!

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Sunday, November 8, 2009 11:58 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Nope. My goodness, man. You need to meet better libertarians.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Sunday, November 8, 2009 12:06 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

Nope. My goodness, man. You need to meet better libertarians.



Seems most of the ones I meet are little different than neo-cons. They're big on deregulation, the "invisible hand" driving the market, and they tend to preach a lot of tort reform.

So you're telling me libertarians AREN'T for those?

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Sunday, November 8, 2009 12:10 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Why go halfway ?


Ponder that without a government and it's military to protect them, without laws bought and paid for to remove them from the consequences of their actions...

They might have to ANSWER for them.

Just think what might have happened at Blair Mountain - and so MANY other places, if the whole goddamn might of the US Fuckin Army wasn't backing the corpies no matter how vile their abuses.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain

Government can't fight crime - Government is crime.

-F

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Sunday, November 8, 2009 12:24 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello Mike,

I've never spoken to a Libertarian who liked corporations much or wanted to do anything to protect them.

On the other hand, I've also never met a Libertarian who thought that a million dollars was a good reward for spilling your hot coffee on your lap. I've also never met one who thought the burglar who fell through your skylight ought to be able to sue you.

Also, as opposed to Anarchists, who seem to advocate virtually no government, Libertarians want to maintain a limited government with the explicit roles of protecting the freedoms of the population, and managing the money supply (usually by removing corporate/bank control over the money supply, and tying the money itself to a limited resource.)

One of the most important regulatory functions I would want a libertarian government to provide is 'disclosure enforcement' which requires manufacturers and suppliers of all types of goods and services to fully disclose what is in their products, including the presence of any substance not proven to be safe.

I like disclosure laws because they leave the ultimate choice in the hands of an informed consumer.

--Anthony




"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Sunday, November 8, 2009 2:50 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


AnthonyT

I just wanted to point out that with the exception of melamine-tainted Chinese milk, all the cases I mentioned were caused by PRIVATE industry in China. And ALL the cases without exception were caused by non-existing or inadequate or regulations, or non-enforcement of regulations (milk).

I further looked-up (but didn't include) antibiotic-tainted fish and honey, which are due to non-existant regulation in China. However, seeing as how the US uses 70% of antibiotics produced in animal feed (70% "Seventy percent of all antibiotics in the United States go to healthy livestock, according to a careful study by the Union of Concerned Scientists — and that’s one reason we’re seeing the rise of pathogens that defy antibiotics."), I don't think we can be pointing fingers.


So, indeed, it is as I said it was.

The owners of the milk company were tried and given the death sentence.

Chinese heparin

"Even so, the problems involving heparin have again focused attention on the quality of products from China and the gaps in regulation by both the Chinese and United States governments. S.P.L.'s plant in Changzhou was certified by American officials to export to the United States even though neither government had inspected it. The plant has been exporting heparin to Baxter since 2004.
Like many chemical companies in China that make pharmaceutical ingredients for export, S.P.L. fell into a regulatory void. A spokesman for China’s State Food and Drug Administration, Shen Chen, said his agency had not inspected the S.P.L. factory because “as far as we know, it is not a drug manufacturer; it is a producer of chemical ingredients.”

Chinese drywall

"Law360, New York (October 16, 2009) -- As the number of U.S. homeowners complaining of drywall contamination continues to rise, the head of the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission has said she will press Chinese officials on whether regulatory standards need to be set for drywall composition."

Chinese toys painted with lead-based paint

"According to Mattel, all the toys were made by a contract manufacturer in China.
Mattel says it prevented more than two-thirds of the 967,000 affected toys from reaching consumers by stopping the products in its distribution centers ...
The Chinese government has said it is working to improve its product regulations ...
Thomas G. Rawski, an economics professor at the University of Pittsburgh, who has visited factories in China regularly since 1975, though not toy factories, said companies there are trying to check product quality, but more improvements are needed.
'The mechanisms for preventing this stuff don’t leap out of a tree,' Mr. Rawski said. 'They have to be built up carefully, and I think it’s very clear this process of building is going on in China right now. That means there are lots of things happening that in an ideal world shouldn’t be happening, including things that wouldn’t happen in Japan or the U.S.'”

Chinese melamine-laced dog food

Said Ji Denghui, general manager of the Fujian Sanming Dinghui Chemical Company: “Many companies buy melamine scrap to make animal feed, such as fish feed. I don’t know if there’s a regulation on it. Probably not. No law or regulation says ‘don’t do it,’ so everyone’s doing it. The laws in China are like that, aren’t they? If there’s no accident, there won’t be any regulation.”

Chinese melamine-laced milk

"Rather, they said, it pointed to a deeper malaise in Chinese society where private profit often trumps the public good as the country races to create a market economy that has outstripped government regulators.
The case is especially embarrassing to Sanlu – a majority state-owned joint venture with a New Zealand dairy cooperative – because it was allegedly such a paragon of virtue it has been exempted from government food safety inspections since December 2005."



***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Sunday, November 8, 2009 3:15 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


On the other hand, I've also never met a Libertarian who thought that a million dollars was a good reward for spilling your hot coffee on your lap. I've also never met one who thought the burglar who fell through your skylight ought to be able to sue you.



Let me ask a question: Do you have the whole background on the "million dollars for spilling hot coffee in your lap" story? Was there prior knowledge at the corporate headquarters that the coffee was hot enough to do permanent physical harm if spilled? If there WERE such knowledge, and it was ignored, would that change your attitude about that award amount?

See, I'm of the opinion that we have juries and judges for good reasons. When you start hamstringing them on what they can and can't do (mandatory minimums for judges, settlement caps on juries for negligence suits, etc.), you've really hamstrung justice. I *don't* have all the particulars on that case, but I'm willing to accept that there's a slight possibility that a jury actually thought the corporation WAS negligent, and wanted to teach them an expensive lesson they wouldn't soon forget.

Yes, coffee is supposed to be "hot". Is it supposed to be BOILING hot? Is it supposed to be so hot that it can cause 2nd- or 3rd-degree burns if you spill it on yourself?

I recall another case, in which a man went into the hospital with an infected leg. Doctors tried, but were unable to save the leg before gangrene set in. They told him he was going to lose the leg, which caused him a great deal of distress, but he was dealing with it. Except when they wheeled him into surgery, the doctor in charge misread the chart, and nobody corrected him. They amputated the wrong leg. And then had to take the infected one as well. So a man who was trying to cope with the idea of losing one leg got to wake up to the horror of losing both his legs, due to a stupid oversight on the part of the doctors working on him.

What's the "reward" you'd find appropriate for that, if it were you, or if it were your child? I know Republicans want to cap that kind of award at $100,000 maximum. If I give you a hundred grand, can I cut off your legs? Are you good with that?

So while libertarians SAY they're for responsibility, from what you're saying, they're no different than anyone else in wanting to set rules based on the very few who abuse the system, rather than on the vast majority for whom it works well. Most fast-food customers DON'T sue for hot coffee mishaps, and most would-be burglars DON'T sue for injuring themselves breaking into your home or business. But people are still clamoring to change the whole system based solely on the few who do do those things...

Liberals tend to want MORE regulation, based on what they've seen of human nature and greed.

And reality is probably going to get crushed in the middle. Do we need more laws, or fewer, or the same amount?

Mike

Let the wild rumpus start!

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Sunday, November 8, 2009 5:50 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello Mike,

I don't know if you make coffee. I've made a few cups, and I've drunk a lot more.

I know what happens to a drop of water that lands on a coffee heating element after you take the pot away. I know that when I am served coffee, I usually have to blow on it or let it sit for a while before I take a sip, or I will burn my tongue.

Any coffee drinker knows this. Anyone who has made a cup of coffee knows this.

I think that any burglar also knows that breaking into a house is a dangerous task. I think anyone who takes a moment to think about breaking and entering realizes this.

Burglars sue, Trespassers sue, Coffee drinkers sue, and it is a sad state of affairs. In fact, if you google 'burglar sues' you get 1.6 million hits. 'Trespasser sues' only nets you 91,400.

Doubtless, some of these lawsuits are worthy, although many are patently unworthy. I think there are things you can do to reduce the frequency of such lawsuits and make the whole lawsuit process more fair.

I don't see how wanting to reduce the number and severity of bad lawsuits is equivalent to giving corporations great big hugs or immunity. It's not an either/or situation. It's not either A) you let people sue ridiculously or B) nobody can touch a bad corporation for bad practices.

It's also not A) You control every action of corporations or B) You don't even glance at the corporation to see what it's doing.

I personally do not believe a market can be free unless it is fully informed. Otherwise you are constrained by ignorance as much as any other potential factor. So as insulting as it is to me to see 'Warning: Coffee is Hot' on my coffee cup, I understand it's importance. It informs the customer. That doesn't mean I feel the award on that case was just.

In the case of the McDonalds coffee, the coffee was hot. Very hot. And McDonalds had the chance to settle for far less before trial. The customer in the case was found to be 20% responsible for the incident, and was ultimately awarded $160,000 compensatory damages. A hefty sum, it nonetheless may have been considered fair by many and would hardly have raised any serious eyebrows on my end, Medical expenses and pain being what they are.

The ultimate award of 2.7 million was what was startling. For willful, reckless, malicious or wanton conduct. This was later reduced to $480,000 on appeal, although that got a lot less publicity. That brings the total award for spilling coffee in your lap to $640,000.

Now, as I said, McDonalds coffee is hot. And there's a reason why. In a series of 1993 focus groups, McDonalds customers stated "morning coffee has minimal taste requirements, but must be hot," to the point of steaming. So the willful, reckless, and malicious hot coffee brewing of McDonalds was according to customer demand.

I'll never feel that award was fair. Oh, I know McDonalds can afford it. They could afford ten times that amount without batting an eye. But it still doesn't seem fair.

Some people don't care about it, though. Because corporations do so many bad things, they're happy to see someone stick it to them even when it's not appropriate. And when it is appropriate? Well, the bloodletting can't be big enough.

Just like I don't want to abolish all government, I don't want to abolish all private business or give business complete power and immunity.

All or nothing seems to be a bad way to do things. I do think that less could be more, if we focus on the important things.

--Anthony











"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Sunday, November 8, 2009 7:59 PM

PERFESSERGEE


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
I'm not sure that femininizing hormones work the other way and can be toted as an explanation for lesbianism, though, nor am I entirely sure it explains homosexuality, or even (and I hate this word) metrosexuality.

I think internalized gender roles and sexual orientation may be two different things. Transvestite males are actually often straight.


It doesn't account for any of those things. Nor does it account for those so-called 'lost boys' he mentions, commonly known as hermaphrodites or transgenders. The cause of males developing into females is not too many female hormones, but an inability of their bodies to respond to male hormones. This isn't something new, either, there have been hermaphrodites for all of human memory. There are different levels of androgen insensitivity, some of which are mild and cause some rather gender-bending genitalia. Other forms are complete, meaning virtually no male hormones are absorbed. This creates a person who appears in all ways female, with little or no body hair. These women do technically have an XY chromosome, something generally not discovered until they reach puberty and fail to menstruate. Removal of what would have been their testicles is usually done at this time to prevent them becoming cancerous, which happens in 99.99% of cases.
Androgen insensitivity is believed to be caused by a mutation in one of the chromosomes. About 7 times out of 10 that sort of mutation will cause a miscarriage, or if not a total miscarriage then a premature birth. If there's been a rise in androgen insensitivity syndrome, it's likely due to the increasing number of medical advances that allow babies born prematurely to survive, where in times past they would never have survived. That is if there's an actual rise. I haven't seen anything to indicate that there has been.

[/sig]



PR,

This is complicated stuff, and related topics have come up in several of the RWED threads in the last few days. This, and stress responses are within my area of expertise and I've been trying to formulate a coherent post that might tie it all together. I'm still a ways off, but I wanted to make a couple of comments in response to your post:

Males don't develop into more female-like conditions, because the default body type for vertebrates is female. Most of those of us who have Y chromosomes are converted females, but some have incomplete or non-existent conversions - and people who have Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome are genetically male (XY), but have a mutation in the gene for the androgen receptor and therefore can't make the conversion. This is not to say that they aren't women - most identify as such, and as far as I'm concerned, the choice is theirs alone. But, it turns out that many of them are lied to by their parents and health care providers and they tend to feel betrayed when they find out (no surprise there). There are many web sites that are related, but a good one is www.aissg.org/

Also, there are many other biological pathways that can lead to an "intersex" condition, some genetic, some developmental. Many of these are also dicussed at the URL above.

We still know little about the biological roots of homosexuality, but more and more evidence piles up that it is not only biological (i.e., those that argue that it's a "lifestyle choice" are profoundly ingorant), but that the male and female forms are not at all the same thing. Also, the argument that "it's not natural", because wild non-humans don't do it is also flat wrong. There are many dozens of species where it's been reliably observed and a few where it has been unequivocally demostrated to be adaptive (which to an evolutionary biologist - virtually all of us biologists - means that it leads to higher reproductive success than alternatives). But there's a lot left to learn, about our own species and the rest of the 99.999999% of the animal world.

perfessergee

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Monday, November 9, 2009 1:53 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"That would explain why no men fired back at the alleged shooter at Ft Hood. A man-hating lesbian had to do it."

Hello,

As an aside, and perhaps more on point with the nonsense PirateNews was posting at the top of this thread, I wanted to address this.

This is why I hate it when Pirate posts anything relevant or factual, because he immediately undermines it by posting sexist or racist lies. In essence, Piratenews is the enemy of truth. He actively wages his war against truth by both posting fantastical fabrications, and also by attaching real facts to his vile propaganda.

Never mind that Piratenews can fabricate a mile- deep researched genealogy of Kenyan-born President Obama or the Nazi-Jewish Queen of England. He can't do five minutes with CNN:

"Bryan said Munley is married to his brother, Staff Sgt. Matthew Munley. He said Matthew was in Downingtown, outside Philadelphia, visiting his family when the shootings happened. The couple, married since 2006, have a 3-year-old daughter named Jayden."

Note to Pirate: A woman can be strong and capable without being a lesbian. She can distinguish herself above the men around her without changing her sexual orientation, or even her sex. She can be a woman, and still kick ass and do a damn fine job. And she can do it without hating men, or exhibiting any of the other negative behavior you attribute to strong, capable females.

--Anthony



"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Monday, November 9, 2009 3:05 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


Note to Pirate: A woman can be strong and capable without being a lesbian. She can distinguish herself above the men around her without changing her sexual orientation, or even her sex. She can be a woman, and still kick ass and do a damn fine job. And she can do it without hating men, or exhibiting any of the other negative behavior you attribute to strong, capable females.



PN reminds me a lot of that guy who shot up the women's gym in Pennsylvania because he couldn't get laid. Layer his hate of women that on top of his homophobia, and you get some pretty freaky psychoses (plural) going on.

Mike

Let the wild rumpus start!

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