Life found on Moon. by Bytemite

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Piratenews thinks it's very important to make sure all of his science and technology information is at least 10 years out of date.

That's why he surfs the web on a highly advanced 486 DX computer running with 16MB memory at 66MHZ speed. His operating system is Windows 98SE, and he enjoys his Internet Explorer 5 browser while reading news stories from 1999.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Saturday, November 14, 2009 1:56 PM

CHRISISALL

That's just moon pee- the waste dump from orbiting Apollo crafts left to bigin this newest fake-out.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Saturday, November 14, 2009 1:58 PM

Wait, Anthony, I'm not sure that's what PN's point is.

He might be saying that he thinks the results that NASA announces may have politics at work behind them. I seem to recall for the Bush years that the policy was to have no interest in colonizing the moon or Mars. This is 1999, the year before Bush came into office... What was Clinton's stance?

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Saturday, November 14, 2009 2:01 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I believe Piratenews' official stance is this:

I will fail to assimilate any new information that contradicts my old beliefs.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Saturday, November 14, 2009 7:52 PM

Sorry, mind the personal attacks. Pirate News performs an important function in the matter of space travel: Skepticism.

Every scientist knows the value of doubt.

If we don't view everything under a microscope, we can be led to any conclusion that our leaders or military want us to believe.

More interestingly, what does this water on the moon say?

Relating back to the heliosphere, if it does turn out that the water exists only on the dark side and at the poles, it would strengthen the idea that hydrogen might be native to the moon, rather than Earth.

While I like my pet theory of the Earth as ring 5, and the moon as ring three, which is supported by chemical distribution and "Snowball Earth," I can see the gravitational logic of Moon as ring five and Earth as ring three.

If the earth robbed the moon of hydrogen, that would lean further towards the latter.

The generally accepted theory that both the earth and the moon are native to ring three and ring five vaporized into thin space is patently absurd, and defies laws of physics all over the place. I have to say I am perpetually perplexed by the degree to which accepted science defies accepted laws of physics with astounding regularity.

Still, the moon as 5 and earth as 3 also fits the curve of ring masses, though caculating ring masses would be a major asset to find the answer to this.

These are enlightening discoveries at any rate. I would shed a little doubt on one aspect here:

Moon capture at 3.3bya is not necessarily accurate. The different age of the surfaces 3.3 and 4.5 is possibly due to plate tectonics, not a cataclysmic event. If the event did not occur at 3.3, then it almost certainly happened earlier, since the event would likely liquify much of the surface of both bodies.

Tectonics are also probably the reason for the strange surface irregularities of Mars and Venus. We tend to forget that the Earth also has multiple-mile high cliffs all over the place, because we view water as surface. We should view it as atmosphere, as it is a liquid compound of two gases. Viewed that way, the earth's atmosphere is 99% water.

The illogic of this result is that there would be precious little hydrogen in ring 3 due to the formation of the sun, which drew almost all the hyrdogen from the first four bands. 5 Remaning bands would be hydrogen-rich.

Another slight snag, the question of whether or not the moon would have held the hydrogen long enough to transform it into surface ice at position 5, I suppose could be answered by the moons of Jupiter.

The answer to this is a decided "Yes" as a quick wiki check returns:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_%28moon%29

The Europa is a perfect model for Luna as a position 5 planet.

A cosmological chronology might look something like this:

Luna, struck by a commet or meteor at high speed would create the bullet-waterballon effect, leaving the asteroid belt, and altering the orbit of Luna and some asteroids into a highly eliptical position 5, replacing it more stable 5.

This orbit would cross that of an earth 3, and the occassional cross would cause an eventual capture, causing a slightly eliptical shift of Terra 3.

Liquification of the surfaces of both would be a logical consequence, so the date of the event might be placed at 3.8, depending on how long it travel, capture, and solidification. Luna's now liquid water would be stolen by the earth much the way Jupiter robs IO at a similar distance.

As Luna slowed in plate tectonics, it developed a lopsided nature due to the enormous tidal pull of Terra, causing the libration synchronous orbit of the moon.

Footnote on capture satellite theory: The smoking gun on this one is this: The moon orbits the ecliptic, not the earths own axis. Outside of an outstanding coincidence, there's only one way for this to happen: IF the moon was created in a planetary position from an independent band of Bode's law from the initial solar disk, and NOT as a member of the same ring as the earth. If the latter were the case, the moon would most likely orbit the earth's equator, and any tilt off of that would be likely to be due to gravitational pull of other moons. Ignoring the detail that Earth's four other understudied moons have virtually no gravitational pull, but might provide interesting data as to our origins, the odds that the result would be the ecliptic would be astronomical. That is to say, it's statistically impossible.

Additionally, constitutional differences between the two bodies also give the story away

I feel fairly certain that I have narrowed it down to this: One is the position planet, and the other is position three, barring a bizarre fluke that shifted mars, but since "landing" smack into an established orbital is extremely unlikely, the most likely would have to be that the higher gravity object already occupied the position 3, and that the moon is originally a position 5 planet. This means that the earth robbed the moon of its atmosphere.

Interesting extra footnote:

Perhaps the capture date, or the atmospheric siphon date, was later, and explains the oxygen catastrophy, rather than the conventional volcanic explanation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen#Build-up_in_the_atmosphere

While I'm speculating, a solution just occurred to me for the salvation of the earth to a future red giant scenario: The earth could be propelled to an elliptical orbit by exploration of the relationship with the moon. Think of this as a form of lever, which could pull the Earth ultimately into a Jovian orbit. After all, given a relocation from 5 to 3, a reverse would be possible, and for 5 to become a satelite of 6, should that be necessary, would not be too much of a stretch. Just an idea.

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Saturday, November 14, 2009 8:39 PM

Ooh! Now Ring 5 Moon and Ring 3 Earth is one I can get behind! The Moon used to be a lot closer to the Earth, and with the greater gravity, I can imagine a hydrogen steal. Plus, I'm much better able to imagine the Earth's gravity catching the Moon than I am able to imagine the Moon catching the Earth. You'd have a smaller range to catch...

Plus, I still just like snowball earth as having a biological cause. Just makes sense to me, if soil and what little atmospheric carbon there was has now been taken up into carbon-based organisms. After all, there's been MULTIPLE snowball Earths.

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Saturday, November 14, 2009 9:14 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"Sorry, mind the personal attacks. Pirate News performs an important function in the matter of space travel: Skepticism."

Hello,

I do mind the personal attacks. The Death to Obama Supporters, The anti-Jew stance. The racism on every level.

On the issue of Skepticism, I appreciate valid skepticism as a tool to science and discovery. I appreciate people who calmly and logically question the data presented to them. People who analyze it for quality of content.

People who are not pushing an adamant agenda against the Lizard people living in the catacombs of their fractured minds.

On the issue of spectrographic analysis of lunar water, two primary questions occur to me.

1) Does the data indicate a positive result for the presence of water?

2) Are there any substances capable of delivering a false positive under the circumstances of the experiment?

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Sunday, November 15, 2009 11:41 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:

Hello,

I do mind the personal attacks. The Death to Obama Supporters, The anti-Jew stance. The racism on every level.

On the issue of Skepticism, I appreciate valid skepticism as a tool to science and discovery. I appreciate people who calmly and logically question the data presented to them. People who analyze it for quality of content.

Yup, and yup again.

I don't mind "skepticism", but there's a difference between being a skeptic and being completely in denial. If you're a skeptic, you can learn and be convinced; if you're in denial, you can't. Ever. Every piece of evidence just builds the walls between you and reality ever-higher. This is PN's stance: not "skeptic", but "denier". Deniers aren't people to be reasoned with; they're to be mocked. Of course, PN would have those who refuse to think his way KILLED, but we're not really about that, are we?

Case in point - Anthony and I disagree about a great many things. On these issues, we're both skeptical of each other's beliefs and methods. But neither of us will outright DENY that other beliefs and methods EXIST. We disagree about the efficacy of them, not the existence of them. And from there, we can actually have a discussion, and if we're very lucky, we can both learn something from each other.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Sunday, November 15, 2009 3:16 PM

Snowball Earth still bugs me. It would destroy photosynthetic life, and this would cause increased co2 production, and I think that probably runs the ice age cycle, I think that a biological cycle would stop before it reached that extreme and reverse.

You have a cycle on that snowball earth?

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Sunday, November 15, 2009 8:27 PM

Photosynthetic life probably WAS destroyed, except in pockets near surface around hot spots.

Besides, the thinking is not so much COMPLETELY frozen so much as it was "slushy in the tropics."

And yeah, there were multiple ones.

Within each event there are geologic deposits that show some signs of cyclical oxygen depletion and accumulation.

Between events, there does not appear to be any cyclical cause: there's about three spaced a few million years apart, but they're almost a billion years later than the first, earlier one, with nothing in between. What I've heard, some sort of extinction event is thought to have triggered the later ones. The organization of the continents (then grouped together) may have been what made it possible, and maybe I shouldn't say that it seems that organisms DROVE the snowball earth effect, but that there seems to be cyclical oxygen depletion and accumulation that could be caused by photosynthesizing organisms.

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Monday, November 16, 2009 9:32 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

As to water on the moon; I'm with Byte, I think it's exciting. May prove to be nothing, but I think it's cool to contemplate the possibility.

On the issue of Skepticism,

Quote:
I appreciate valid skepticism as a tool to science and discovery. I appreciate people who calmly and logically question the data presented to them. People who analyze it for quality of content.

says it for me. I disagree PN is a skeptic, or that he's providing ANY service to this forum, particularly the latter because I don't believe he intends a "service", I think this is just one (or the ONLY one) of the websites he hasn't been kicked off of yet, and he enjoyes wallowing in his own kind of sickness--not to mention the attention it engenders.

Anthony, I disagree with

Quote:
I will fail to assimilate any new information that contradicts my old beliefs

I'd say it was more "I will fail to assimilate any new information that contradicts my CHOSEN beliefs"--most of PN's beliefs aren't "old" information, they're totally "screwed" information which never existed in the first place.

Personally, I'm just sick of him, period.

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Monday, November 16, 2009 4:35 PM

I think PN posts a fair percent of the interesting new topics. True, he misses more often than he hits, but he fires a lot.

As for why he's here, we are one of his audiences. I think he harms his message with his message, but in terms of waking people up to issues, he does a good job.

I'd say Frem definitely takes the top spot in this regard. Byte also has win a prize for most influential nee poster, she had me researching water table contamination in Nevada, among a dozen other things.

Sorry guys, but here are a few just fail, and who might work on it, you know who you are, you're failing to waken people to your political issue. If you don't get a lot of interest in your issue, it's probably something in the nature of delivery, etc.

It ain't a popularity contest, it's just a matter of a lot of people raise issues, and some people get other people interested in those issues. Not saying that the rest of y'all don't occasionally send me googling, but I watch the overall response, and whether or not people get concerned about their issues, or research their topics.

Here's a tip for everyone:

Don't attack a perp, try instead, to defend a victim. That's what Frem does. He defends kids, a lot, he doesn't spend a lot of time attacking abusive parents, or parents in general, or educators or other authority figures, even if he feels that these people are the real problem.

Wulf could have brought up gang violence as a problem, and focused on minority victims of that problem, to get people interested in the issue.

Pirate News could have focused more on the victims of economic imperialism, rather than attacking jews.

In short, we could all do a better job, and this is precisely what makes this forum interesting: We learn from each other. Not just information, but we learn *how* to get out point across, how to communicate effectively.

Consider RWED a perpetual Hell week of communications skills.

And, just for kicks, a lot of folks here have some bee in their bonnet, so,, let it out, put down that whackamole hammer for the moment, and try to construct a thread that will get people really interested in one of your issues.

Expect to fail, but do it anyway. Then try again. Study other posters, see what they do that is effective. Keep trying until you succeed.

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Tuesday, November 17, 2009 6:06 AM

Quote:
Byte also has win a prize for most influential nee poster, she had me researching water table contamination in Nevada, among a dozen other things.

One of the more interesting occurrences during the pipeline issue was hearing your attack ideas, then later watching as people used the tactics you were recommending. It was a very useful learning experience, though I didn't make much avail of myself.

Of course someone needs to still drive a stake through that thing, because while it's been strangled, if I take my eye off it for a second, it's bound to come back. At least the population has turned against Representative Noel, but I'm going to be on the look-out for when a "new" deal is hashed out and released. If I get in on it from the beginning, and now that I'm more familiar with potential allies, I might be able to make more of a difference.

Besides, this is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the building water rights war in the west, and the issue of big money versus people's livelyhoods. Affects everyone in the region, all the mountain states, Nevada and California. And that's not even touching the fight building on the Snake and Columbia Rivers. Ouch.

At this point I'm wondering if the ultimate solution for the desert region is eventually going to be everyone builds themselves a drinking water cistern, kills their lawn, and forego showers. In any case, the only sensible action now is to manage groundwater and only draw it from the aquifers AT the location it's being used.

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Tuesday, November 17, 2009 6:16 AM

ZZETTA13

Wasn’t Sam Rockwell on the moon not that long ago? Lets ask him…..

Z

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Tuesday, November 17, 2009 6:45 AM

RIVERLOVE

Right before the explosion there seems to be a gigantic toad-monster glaring out awaiting the impact, much like the asteroid-inhabitant in Empire Strikes Back.

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Tuesday, November 17, 2009 1:03 PM

OUT2THEBLACK

Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
Enhanced video shows LCROSS impact plume:

Quote:
Oct 13, 1999: The controlled crash of NASA's Lunar Prospector spacecraft into a crater near the south pole of the Moon on July 31 produced no observable signature of water, according to scientists digging through data from Earth- based observatories and spacecraft such as the Hubble Space Telescope.

http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/ast13oct99_1.htm

I think the conflation of Lunar Prospector with LCROSS ten years later is sorta funny , and somewhat suspect , as well...

You know , a survey spacecraft landing in Atacama might find that there's 'no water' on Earth , but there are also
a lot of spots where it could sink deep into the drink before reporting any positive results...

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Tuesday, November 17, 2009 1:08 PM

OUT2THEBLACK

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I think PN posts a fair percent of the interesting new topics. True, he misses more often than he hits, but he fires a lot.

Was also Michael Jordan's methodology with basketball...

One is guaranteed to miss with 100% of shots not taken...

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:

As for why he's here, we are one of his audiences. I think he harms his message with his message, but in terms of waking people up to issues, he does a good job.

Also true...A well-reasoned and intentioned response , D-T .

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Tuesday, November 17, 2009 5:00 PM

River,

Wasn't that Return of the Jedi? I thought the toadlike asteroid dweller of Empire Strikes back was Yoda ;)

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Wednesday, November 18, 2009 9:31 AM

Quote:

Was also Michael Jordan's methodology with basketball...

He also had this trick where he would scrunch his knees in mid-air. This put his eyes at a consistent level, enabling him to get a better view of the basket. I think John could probably work on that angle a little more.

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Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:46 AM

I thought River was talking about the big worm thing they land in, when the Falcon gets attacked by mynocks.

Oh god, I said mynocks, I am such a nerd. *humiliated*

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Wednesday, November 18, 2009 1:35 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Quote:

Was also Michael Jordan's methodology with basketball...

He also had this trick where he would scrunch his knees in mid-air. This put his eyes at a consistent level, enabling him to get a better view of the basket.

I'm sorry, but... WHAT?

How does scrunching your knees in mid-air put your eyes on a consistent level?

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Wednesday, November 18, 2009 1:41 PM

The air resistance on basketball courts is INSANE.

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Wednesday, November 18, 2009 5:49 PM

I don't remember mynocks.

Mike,

Here's how Jordan explains it: (I'm paraphrasing from memory, but I am pretty sure I have this right)

After I jump, my body goes up in proportion to my weight and strength and like anyone else is counteracted in seconds by gravity. But it's my center of gravity which is following the predictable curve, which would cause my eyes to be in a constant state of vertical motion.

By pulling my knees in as I rise, I pull my eyes closer to my center of gravity. Then as I fall, I extend my legs again, straightening my body back out, taking my eyes further from my center of gravity again. As a result, though my center rises and falls, my eyes remain one to two seconds at a fairly constant height allowing me to make a much more calculated shot. This also creates the visual illusion that my jump is higher than other players, which it really isn't.

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Wednesday, November 18, 2009 6:30 PM

KWICKO

Ah - thank you. I was having trouble visualizing what you were trying to say. The explanation makes it more sensible.

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Thursday, November 19, 2009 4:07 AM

Mike,

That was pretty close to verbatim what Jordan said. It's odd: My amnesia as a result of mainstream medicine's using me as a guinea pig doesn't effect my ability to recall things prior to that experimentation. If it happened in '99 I can recall it just fine. Actually, it's a useful observation: must be something to do with memory recording they fucked up, not recall.

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Thursday, November 19, 2009 7:23 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Mike,

That was pretty close to verbatim what Jordan said. It's odd: My amnesia as a result of mainstream medicine's using me as a guinea pig doesn't effect my ability to recall things prior to that experimentation. If it happened in '99 I can recall it just fine. Actually, it's a useful observation: must be something to do with memory recording they fucked up, not recall.

Hello,

You should write a thread about this experience. It sounds fascinating. (If you will pardon me being fascinated by your apparent disability.)

I am sorry you are experiencing difficulty. I don't mean to sound callous by expressing interest in the process.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:04 AM

RIVERLOVE

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
I thought River was talking about the big worm thing they land in, when the Falcon gets attacked by mynocks.

Oh god, I said mynocks, I am such a nerd. *humiliated*

That is what I meant, the worm in the asteroid. The "moon creature" seen at the very end in this video looks like a big toad.

Also, "mynock"?, not "mine ock"? Just asking, 'cause I don't know. Boy that George Lucas is some kind of wizard with words.

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Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:20 AM

Dunno, I think they ate electrical energy? But it might have been minerals.

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Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:07 PM

Tony,

There were a couple of threads. They're in archives somewhere.

I'm supposed to not be here now, but I had a tough week and needed to unwind.

River,

My apologies, you out-geeked me.

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Wednesday, December 16, 2009 9:03 AM

PARTICIPANT

www.universetoday.com

A website based in India has reported researchers with the Chandrayaan-1 mission may have found "signs of life in some form or the other on the Moon.

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Wednesday, December 16, 2009 9:46 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Signs of Life Detected on the Moon?
www.universetoday.com/2009/12/16/signs-of-life-detected-on-the-moon/

Gamma rays are good for you. DNA morph is fun!

Quote:
"You really do begin to adapt, just hop a little bit, if you turn around and walk over to your right a little bit & look over into that crater, your going to see our pal sitting their, and thats one team slip is on, ok now what have you got all over your boot."
-Apollo 12, Youtube 1:28
http://history.nasa.gov/alsj/a12/video12.html

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Wednesday, December 16, 2009 10:24 AM