Going Rogue by dreamtrove

Quote:
Mike:
do you FEAR her?

Mike,

No. I'm just re-thinking my whole strategy. Here's my new strategy: Organize a large group of voters to support her in the primary under only one condition: That she choose Ron Paul as a VP.

He's old, but very healthy. When she randomly quits being president in April, we'll have what we want.

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Saturday, November 21, 2009 3:23 PM

SHINYGOODGUY

First of all, I despise Katie Curic. She is, let me see how do I say this, a B..........in CAPS.
Her stint on channel 4 was torturous at best. While there she was an evil troll hated by her colleagues and behind the scenes crew. A no-talent hack, who fancied herself a serious news-woman and took the leap to cbs to sure superstardom. (The real star of the Today show is Matt Lauer).

She was sadly mistaken. It couldn't have happened to a nicer person.

But, regardless of who arranged the interview was KC, how can any serious candidate allow for any talking head to browbeat them into submission. Case in point, in Sept. 2006 Chris Wallace of (ugh!) Fox News 'sparred' with former president Bill Clinton. Mr. Clinton proceeded to wipe the floor with Chris Wallace (once a respected reporter with ABC news) taking control of the situation (which BTW reporters are trained not to allow) and ended up kicking the crap out of Mr. Wallace for trying to 'sandbag' Clinton. It's on You Tube, look it up. Now that's how you should defend yourself during an interview.

Of course, in order to do that, one must have a modicum of intelligence and a pinch of preparedness. There is one thing that Ms. Palin does have in common with Mr. Clinton. She has a great big pair of bright, shiny, hairy balls. Who else would go out on an adventure, such as the republican vice-presidential nomination, without a clue as to how to comport herself.

BTW, it's interesting to me how quickly the staunch supporters of old man McCain have desserted the ship - the USS Wishful Thinking. Suddenly it's McCain's fault for the party's failure to retain the stranglehold on the White House. Who actually picked Palin anyway? Didn't McCain need the party's permission to seek out someone other than Lieberman. Actually it's widely known that the party nixed the McCain/Lieberman ticket and hand-picked Our Ms. Palin.

Senator Palpatine would have been proud.

But here's my thinking on this whole Palin circus.
The players may change but the game remains the same. That goes for both sides.

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose - Me and Bobby McGee, Kris Kristofferson

Your Shinygoodguy

Tawabawho?

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Saturday, November 21, 2009 3:39 PM

SHINYGOODGUY

We found a thinking man here, a rare but valuable commodity. Welcome friend, I truly appreciate your post.

I too am a fan of Habitat for Humanity. My son volunteered while a high school student and I have been a fan ever since. Conservative or no, liberal or not, it feels good to help a human in need. No hand out, sweat equity.

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose....Me and Bobby McGee, Kris Kristofferson

SGG

Tawabawho?

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Saturday, November 21, 2009 5:33 PM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Quote:
Mike:
do you FEAR her?

Mike,

No. I'm just re-thinking my whole strategy. Here's my new strategy: Organize a large group of voters to support her in the primary under only one condition: That she choose Ron Paul as a VP.

He's old, but very healthy. When she randomly quits being president in April, we'll have what we want.

Okay, I have to admit, that's a pretty good one.

Sadly, though, I fear for Ron Paul's health. Yes, he's healthy, but the office of the President of the United States tends to make healthy man unhealthy in a very short time. Look what it's done to Obama already. Look what it did to Dubya. Hell, look what it did to JFK! (Okay, that last was just pure snark. Fish gotta swim, birds gotta fly...)

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Saturday, November 21, 2009 5:46 PM

When McKinney was running, when someone asked her why a liberal black candidate would run against rather than support Obama, she said that Obama was a black man and a talented politician, but he was also a product for popular consumption, and that product, there was no point in investing in, because it had already been bought and paid for.

I actually voted for McKinney. She's keen mind and rational conspiracy theorist, and right an unnerving percentage of the time. I thought the comment was hostile at the time, but I'm beginning to suspect that she had a point: Obama as a guy, is a nice guy, with a nice family, and there's nothing not to like. As a politician, he's a product for sale, but that product is owned, and we now know who the buyers were: well, Goldman Sachs, for one...

Which brings me back to Sarah Palin. Sarah Palin, the person, is has made some poor judgment calls. While I would never dismiss Katie as a talking head, Katie Couric is a first class Illuminatus, Palin fell for it. OTOH, Obama fell for an interview with Lara Logan, and fumbled a very large number of media events. His jokes were terrible, and he admitted to lying to the american people twice during his campaign, because he got caught doing it. I'm not slamming Obama here, it's not like other politicians didn't lie, but he was far from deft, he was almost a Biden fumble. Sure, so were his opponents, but that's not where the difference lies. (I'll give credit to Obama that when he's caught out in a lie, he owns up to it, unlike Cheney, and when pressed, he tells you the truth)

The difference is all in the editing. We saw what masterminds like Katie wanted us to see: A smooth talking personable leader in Obama, and a fumbling idiot in Palin.

Now lets rewind to the interviews you didn't see, and I apologize, but I don't have the time to run the full Pirate News, but I remember these interviews, because they were posted online:

Barack Obama, when pressed, said that he would adopt an aggressive expansionist campaign in Afghanistan, and agreed with Sen. McCain on 50-100 years of presence in Iraq. He also offered no peace talks with Iran and Syria, and said that troop levels would go up, rather than down, towards Vietnam levels. When really backed into a corner, Lara said to him "So what you're saying is that your administration would represent no real policy change from that of George W. Bush" and Obama responded "That is correct, my administration would represent no real policy change." (He then attempted to argue that he would more competently execute Bush policies, but never straying from the Bush path...)

Just gnaw on that. What exactly would the american voter have thought in Nov. 2008 if they had Obama on the screen saying and that is an exact quote that his administration would represent no real policy change over that of George W. Bush?

I'm not trying to argue left-right here. I'm dissecting the anatomy of a campaign, so please bear with me on this:

Now, let's fast forward to a fictional campaign, run on what are not at all new ideas:

Hope, Change and a New Deal. This has been the democratic platform run by the democratic party since FDR. What happens when the politicians get into office every single time? Well what did Obama do? Write a huge handout to his friends, nominate the people who paid him, and bought his policies, rather than the people he said he would nominate... that's not a condemnation, that's politics as usual.

But now another tip of how it was won: The latino demographic was the swing vote. I suspect that Bush's 11th hour anti-latino stance was meant to sabotage McCain, whom he hated, and support Clinton, who was a close family friend. Even after losing the Primary, the Clintons were determined to win.

When Obama adopted the campaign of Caesar Chavez, he locked in the hispanic vote. Here's the best part: He doesn't speak a word of spanish. He hasn't shown that he knows anything about their culture, or their values. But he made a convincing campaign of Si se puede thinly disguised as "Yes we can" so that latinos knew what it was, but middle america wouldn't. Clever strategizing by someone, perhaps Obama himself. But strategy, not policy.

So, now we are where we are. We haven't been bamboozled, we deluded ourselves, with a lot of help from the media. Barack Obama is exactly who he said he was on the campaign trail, and he showed this in his 2008 election run senate actions: War, spending, bailouts, debt, socialism, centralized power, patriot act, all of the policies he had supported. Essentially, there was no changing the product, it had already been determined. The only change was the packaging.

So, Sarah Palin is not an objectionable person, and as a product, she's still for sale. Who cares what packaging we would need to put on her to get her elected? I know that the image she's putting forth now is all about winning the republican base, and nothing about who she was 18 months ago. Or should we buy a Huckabee instead? I don't think you can buy a Romney, that one already sold on ebay. You can't elect a Ron Paul because there's no fancy packaging. The trick to getting Ron Paul like Policy is to do what Obama did: Find a way to say what you're going to do not in a combative revolutionary nature, but in a softpedalled winking way, as in, you know I'm your gal, and the xtian right will eat it up, then you bring in a secondary swing demographic through some stealth move, like yes we can, and you're in like flynn.

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Saturday, November 21, 2009 5:57 PM

Quote:
Mike,

No. I'm just re-thinking my whole strategy. Here's my new strategy: Organize a large group of voters to support her in the primary under only one condition: That she choose Ron Paul as a VP.

He's old, but very healthy. When she randomly quits being president in April, we'll have what we want.

XD

Works for me. Although I think someone needs to ground Ron Paul in some reality, I can

respect him and his positions and I do think he at least means well.

Quote:
So, now we are where we are. We haven't been bamboozled, we deluded ourselves, with a lot of help from the media. Barack Obama is exactly who he said he was on the campaign trail, and he showed this in his 2008 election run senate actions: War, spending, bailouts, debt, socialism, centralized power, patriot act, all of the policies he had supported. Essentially, there was no changing the product, it had already been determined. The only change was the packaging.

Yep. Six days into Obama's nomination, I was shocked by the remote drones going off in Pakistan. Very, very angry. And then I come on to the RWED, and someone told me that was something Obama had promised on his campaign. I'd never heard of it. Ever more shock, even more anger, and I've never trusted the man since.

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Saturday, November 21, 2009 6:37 PM

Yes, he slaughtered unsuspecting civilian populations in one of the worst peacetime massacres ever, and six days after that, was nominated for the nobel peace prize ;)

It's all a sham, top to bottom. Scan the other threads: we to make the sham work for us.

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Saturday, November 21, 2009 8:10 PM

SHINYGOODGUY

Ok, Obama lied. No change we can believe in, no real policy changes.

Bush stole 2000 Elections, lied about WMDs, almost got a CIA operative killed and who could ever forget the look on his face when told of the 9/11 hit. It sent chills down my spine.

Clinton was a sexaholic, FDR was a socialist, Hoover wore a skirt. It's all relative.

Now, tell me you believe Palin is somehow different.

Money talks, bullschoy walks.

This nation is run by the political machine. Don't believe the hype.

The next voice you hear.........

SGG

Tawabawho?

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Sunday, November 22, 2009 9:44 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Thanx, Cavalier..."Everything you said." Shiny, too.

If you were serious; anyone who wants Palin in ANY kind of power, regardless of what else it might bring, is insane...on that point, not necessarily any other. DT, Byte (MIKE?), you're crazy. To think of giving that nutbag ANY power.

Yes, I saw the article on Palin quitting...again. Giggled my way through it (tho' my sympathy went out to those who waited 9 hours in the cold, only to be left out in the cold...).

I loved her official message: "I've BEEN TOLD some people were..." She had scuttled to her big fancy bus like the rat she is, so we knew she was on board. Bus has windows, right? Large crowd of people standing beside it, booing her and calling "quitter". But she had to be TOLD...uh, huh!

Apparently numerous among them returned the books, and I saw video of several saying they weren't going to support her any more after this. Go Sarah!!!

Those left out received a POSTCARD with her signature pre-printed on it. Aside from anything else, how totally classless!!!

I can only hope she keeps on going as she has begun, it will make it easier for everyone.

O would say "RON PAUL???", but I imagine I'll be shouted down something fierce, so I'll shut up... ;o)

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Sunday, November 22, 2009 9:50 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"O would say "RON PAUL???", but I imagine I'll be shouted down something fierce, so I'll shut up... ;o)"

Hello,

You should start a new thread on this, as there are legitimate reasons to criticize Ron Paul.

I do prefer him to the other candidates, and am sorry he didn't make more of an impact in the last election. However, I recognize there are elements of his policy and questionable literary ties in his past that may make him less than desirable for some folks.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Sunday, November 22, 2009 10:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"O would say "RON PAUL???", but I imagine I'll be shouted down something fierce, so I'll shut up... ;o)"

Hello,

You should start a new thread on this, as there are legitimate reasons to criticize Ron Paul.

I do prefer him to the other candidates, and am sorry he didn't make more of an impact in the last election. However, I recognize there are elements of his policy and questionable literary ties in his past that may make him less than desirable for some folks.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

Thanks, Anthony - that was, as usual, said with your usual amount of grace.

I *do* have some issues with Dr. Paul, but that said, I'd love to see him gain enough power and support to FORCE one party or another to address, if not adopt, some of his core issues and beliefs.

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Sunday, November 22, 2009 10:09 AM

PARTICIPANT

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
She will use her power & popularity next year to gather enormous crowds, and piles of money for Republican candidates. She will campaign tirelessly to defeat Dems all over the country. She will help in the takeback of Congress from the clutches of Pelosi-Reid. Obama has fucked up so much, Palin will sound like a rocket scientist when she starts shredding him into little pieces.

So, Palin as hero, eh?

The derangement is not ours, Jong.

The laughing Chrisisall

She has very little chance now that the economy is turning around

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Sunday, November 22, 2009 10:15 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Thanks, Anthony - that was, as usual, said with your usual amount of grace.

I *do* have some issues with Dr. Paul, but that said, I'd love to see him gain enough power and support to FORCE one party or another to address, if not adopt, some of his core issues and beliefs.

Hello,

I'm afraid I just lost my temper in another thread. Sometimes I feel the path to self-improvement is one step forward and two steps back.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Sunday, November 22, 2009 10:16 AM

PARTICIPANT

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:

RiverLove, is that you in that pic? You've lost weight!

and that's just gross

no more of those please

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Sunday, November 22, 2009 10:21 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"Fuck Sarah Palin Nude, if she gets elected blame the Zionist Lizards or that bastard Mike Cox"

Hello,

Yet another thread title change.

This is becoming systemic, and is a violation of others' free speech rights. It is censorship of someone else's original writings, by altering them.

It's hacking, basically, and it's wrong.

This needs to stop.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Sunday, November 22, 2009 10:30 AM

It's kinda funny in a way, Anthony, because I'm watching it in real time, and I've been watching "participant", "oppyh", and "jayneztown" all log in and out together. One logs in when the other logs out, and the thread titles change. And there will never be two of them logged in at the same time, I'm willing to bet.

Apparently she (he?) thinks it's cute. One person, three sockpuppets. At least.

I can also track the thread title edits and tell you who made what changes, and when, and who changed the titles first, and to what they changed them.

It's all in where you look, and how. Everything goes somewhere, and like Echelon and Mr. Universe, I go everywhere.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Sunday, November 22, 2009 10:37 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Please use this information to publicly out the individuals involved with detailed lists of their misdeeds, so that they will not be able to censor their opponents in anonymity or impunity.

I hate censorship, and I despise vandalism.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Sunday, November 22, 2009 10:42 AM

PARTICIPANT

I am publicly calling out Mike, he has been changing thread titles

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Sunday, November 22, 2009 10:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by participant:
I am publicly calling out Mike, he has been changing thread titles

You're right. I have been changing thread titles. To remove profanity (even though RWED is pretty much adults, the thread titles show up on the Community front page for all to see), and to change them back to their original titles.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Sunday, November 22, 2009 10:48 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by participant:
I am publicly calling out Mike, he has been changing thread titles

Hello,

I find that people who I deal with frequently begin to display patterns of behavior. It is almost like a psychological fingerprint. While there are things that could suddenly cause a change in behavior, they are comparatively rare and usually limited in duration.

In essence, Mike has a reputation. He has earned it.

This style of very crass title change does not match his reputation with me.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Sunday, November 22, 2009 11:38 AM

I have no objection to the changing of thread titles, I was only ragging on Mike for the use of Going Rouge as sexism.

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Sunday, November 22, 2009 12:40 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
It's kinda funny in a way, Anthony, because I'm watching it in real time, and I've been watching "participant", "oppyh", and "jayneztown" all log in and out together. One logs in when the other logs out, and the thread titles change. And there will never be two of them logged in at the same time, I'm willing to bet.

Apparently she (he?) thinks it's cute. One person, three sockpuppets. At least.

And...

Wait for it, you know it's comin....

Snap goes the trap.

So Part-Op-Jayne seems to have a bug in their bonnet over being disagreed with, and resorts to sabotage and malice to get their way, storming right over anyone who doesn't see the world the way they do, gee who woulda thunk it.

And isn't that EXACTLY what they are accusing others of, acting in a malicious fashion against folk who do not agree with them ?

The only difference between these Zealots is what flavor of koolaid they're pushin, beyond that they're all EXACTLY the same, capable of exactly the same atrocities and horrors, and that happens to be why I think all their koolaid sucks, because the bright pretty surface hides the true poison of the soul underneath.

And the very INSTANT I saw that same zealotry behind the eyes of Sarah Palin, I knew what a monster lurked within.

It's ok to think you know what is best for me.
It's NOT ok for you to try to enforce that upon me against my will.

Any zealot who cannot understand that, who will not understand that, loses all claim to humanity on the spot, because in order to see your fellow humans as objects for your manipulation one must first stop considering them AS humans, as people.

Once you have done that, you lose all claim to the title yourself, imho.

-F

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Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:34 PM

Interesting sockpuppetry, but I still maintain that Sarah Palin is a product. Her personal beliefs radically changed when the GOP decided that she'd be added to the shortlist.

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Sunday, November 22, 2009 5:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Quote:
Originally posted by participant:
I am publicly calling out Mike, he has been changing thread titles

Hello,

I find that people who I deal with frequently begin to display patterns of behavior. It is almost like a psychological fingerprint. While there are things that could suddenly cause a change in behavior, they are comparatively rare and usually limited in duration.

In essence, Mike has a reputation. He has earned it.

This style of very crass title change does not match his reputation with me.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Anthony. I appreciate that.

And yes, I *have* changed thread titles in the past, and freely admitted as much. I usually try to change them to something "cute" or clever - or just snarky/smartassish. While I embrace profanity in RWED and in real life, I try to keep it out of the thread titles, because I *DON'T* want it showing up on the front page of the "Community" page of this board.

So when things got going fast and furious earlier today, I was thread-jumping all over the place trying to keep that stuff from hitting the community page, and trying to change 'em back to their original titles, or something close to them.

And then I noticed something. When all this is going on, when the thread titles are being changed, you can actually see who's doing it. But I definitely hesitate to unleash that knowledge here, given what the ability to change thread titles has brought upon us! For the time being, it will make for some interesting watching, and some very damning screenshots. ;)

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Sunday, November 22, 2009 6:21 PM

Looks like YinYang noticed it too. She mentioned seeing the same thing on another thread.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Sunday, November 22, 2009 7:18 PM

Quote:
If you were serious; anyone who wants Palin in ANY kind of power, regardless of what else it might bring, is insane...on that point, not necessarily any other. DT, Byte (MIKE?), you're crazy. To think of giving that nutbag ANY power.

Um... What? When did I say that I'd like to see Sarah Palin in power? I recall saying something about two bad choices then being given a third choice is a set-up, and Palin wouldn't even be a good choice. I'm pretty sure she'd be a disaster.

I was mostly commenting on the humour of DT suggesting that we use Palin as a runner to get Ron Paul into office as VP... And that Palin would quit in short order. But it's not at all possible first because he and Palin are on the opposite sides of the pool in the Republican party, and second because it presupposes that Palin would get enough votes. I wouldn't vote for her even with Ron Paul on her ticket.

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Monday, November 23, 2009 4:43 AM

1. I suggest this: When you change a thread title, make sure you don't do so in a manner which makes it unrecognizable. That's insensitive. I did it to Frem recently, but it was unintentional.

"Lou Dobbs fired by Mexican Jews!" Is perfectly acceptable. I thought "Going Rouge" was clever, I was just going to rag on whoever did it. Changing the Lou Dobb's thread to "Pirate News fired by CNN/Obama/Reptilians" would be insensitive, as it disrupts anyone who wants to discuss Lou Dobbs.

Remember, there's an old rule here, which is no multiposting of threads. If PN posts the first Lou Dobbs thread, it's the only Lou Dobbs thread, until there's a completely different Lou Dobbs subject.

2. I believe our political system to be completely rigged. I think that no candidates are really serious leaders, but are just auditioning for a role of "mascot." I'm serious about Sarah Palin, It wasn't a joke. I think that the GOP registration is plummeting, and the number of people who will be voting in a GOP primary will be <20 million. Maybe 10 or 15. This would means that if all Ron Paul supporters were to register republican to vote in the primary, they could in theory make him win.

Theory. Reality is that the system would never *let* Ron Paul win. But TPTB actually *want* Sarah Palin to win. I think that they assume that she is a moron and would be easy to trample, for an Obama re-election, esp. when you throw in Lou Dobbs or other splitters.

So, here's the stealth attack solution. Forget for a moment whatever anyone including myself thinks of Sarah Palin, and consider the possibility that I'm right: President is a mascot, not a leader. A cheerleader, maybe.

Now reflect back. Ronald Reagan came up with all those economic policies himself, right?

Or is Ronald Reagan an actor who played president?

Okay, that said. Obama might be a mascot who is trying to take power, but who really has more power: Barack and Michelle, or the Clintonistas and Goldman Sachs?

Okay, now back to 2012.

If TPTB thought that the Sarah Palin campaign was a good chump splitter, but actually, we had joined the GOP, made a deal with Palin, or replace with any other candidate that the system decides it likes, then we *become* the Palin campaign, because we have most of the votes. It's a trojan horse attack.

I started this with the understanding that Sarah Palin was going to happen because TPTB wanted her to. This is purely strategic, and IMHO, pretty clever. I think a few people get this but I'm surprised by how many people don't

Either the plan can work or it can't. If it can't, attack the plan. Attacking the Palin is pointless.

Maybe this plan requires two controllable candidates to play off against one another, but I'm pointing out that it wouldn't be that hard to become the majority of the GOP in 2012, and if Obama's Administration, read: clintonistas and goldman sachs, fuck up, which is very likely, then the gop could win. But what won't work is a front on attack.

When people say "The easiest way in is to walk in the front door" they don't mean with AK in hand. They mean walking in the front door looking like you belong there, like the thief dressed in workman's clothes. The thief dressed in skimask has trouble getting in the front door.

Ron Paul for President looks like a full on frontal assault to the system, which it is.

Sarah Palin for president looks like a joke that no one takes seriously. Which it is. For now.

The rabbit out of the hat here is to turn Ron Paul into Sarah Palin without TPTB knowing, which is politically possible. And possibly, a damn good idea. I wanted comments on that concept, weakpoints, strategic ideas, etc.

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Monday, November 23, 2009 5:12 AM

Well, there's the vote issue I brought up. Palin has a lot of near fanatic support, but the rest of the country is pretty cold towards her. Especially, as you've just seen, Democrats. On a good voting year, you might expect maybe a third of the United States population to vote, which is maybe 12 million or so. You're arguing that EVERYONE who votes would have to vote for Palin. That's not going to happen. Most of Palin's support is rural, voting booths may not be convenient.

The Republican Party may have set McCain up to take a fall, but I imagine they may be pretty ticked off at Palin for the shots she took at McCain's campaign organizers, who can probably be assumed to be the puppeteers in the Republican party. So even though they may think they can exploit her (apparent?) stupidity, the people in charge of the GOP probably would not offer Palin much support, especially because it looks like at this point she's not controllable. Which would be good for us, but if she can't even act like a good puppet, they're not going to let her anywhere near the strings.

So no, I don't really think this is a possibility. But it'd be really funny if you pulled it off.

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Monday, November 23, 2009 6:24 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Sorry; I thought the suggestion of Palin/Paul was serious...or rather, I should put that otherwise. I realize it WAS serious, in theory, but even in theory it sickens me.

Quote:
And the very INSTANT I saw that same zealotry behind the eyes of Sarah Palin, I knew what a monster lurked within.

Frem nailed it.

As to the rest of the crap happening here, sigh, I guess it's just what happens on forums/websites...there are always a few of "those". Such is life.

I don't see all the political conspiracy theories others do, I'm afraid, so I can't speak to that. Life is simpler for me.

Someone asked about Michelle Malkin and Rachel Maddow. Maddow has a political show on right after Countdown; she covers things with a distinct liberal slant, but "follows the money" which is interesting, and I get a lot of stuff from her to investigate myself, which I appreciate.

Malkin is a complete and utter nutcase (or someone willing to be seen as such who hides her actual intelligence, but I doubt it); she's actually not worth going into, but here's a taste of one person's opinion of her, which fits: "The only time I see Ms. Malkin is when she is skewered by Keith Olbermann. I have however read some of her hateful bile in op/ed pages of my daily paper. I just dropped that paper for allowing such a pathetic and uninformed cretin to invade their newsprint. She’s not quite as creepy as Coultergeist but close." She's on Fixed News, and used to sub for O'Reilly on his show, which pretty much says it all. And I forgot to add "Coultergeist"--Ann Coulter--who may well be the most vile of them all, female-wise anyway.

I bumped across Malkin being fired/quitting Fixed News by hunting up an explanation of her. Barely brought a grin, but hey, a grin is better than none. The only time I see her either, thankfully, is clips on Countdown, but those are bad enough.

Apparently she was in a feud with Geraldo Rivera, who said of her: "Michelle Malkin is the most vile, hateful commentator I’ve ever met in my life. She actually believes that neighbors should start snitching out neighbors, and we should be deporting people. It’s good she’s in D.C. and I’m in New York,” Rivera sneers. “I’d spit on her if I saw her.” This from a fellow Fixed News commentator, remember...and O'Reilly himself apparently had Rivera on his show right after, sans any mention of Malkin or the feud. That's loyalty for 'ya...

River's remark touched off a firestorm. She replied by calling Rivera "unhinged" and many other things for a while, took out ads to bring it to the attention of people, got no backup from Fixed News, and eventually was fired by/quit them. Not that I like Rivera, mind you, but hey, ho, one for the good guys' side.

You can google her for more, if intersted. That's about all the time/energy she's worth for me. But omigawsh, look at how much I disdain/dislike Malkin...that must mean I'm afraid of her, right? Or resent her 'cuz I'm female...or something (I lose track). Damn, best get under my desk and start cowering in fear.

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Monday, November 23, 2009 7:10 AM

Quote:
Sorry; I thought the suggestion of Palin/Paul was serious...or rather, I should put that otherwise. I realize it WAS serious, in theory, but even in theory it sickens me.

Why? Because Palin is that bad (which I'll concede), or because you think Ron Paul is a kook?

Granted, Ron Paul *IS* a little kooky, but where it matters, he has a better track record than most people in politics right now. Against Iraq, against reinstatement of the draft, against the patriot act, wants to prune back the Federal government, and he hates the special interests in Washington. Obviously there's questions, like about supposedly racially charged newsletters he's written, and places where I'm not sure I agree with him, but generally he seems less corrupt than most congressmen/women, and he's willing to take on government abuses on behalf of the little guy. I can respect that.

Quote:
As to the rest of the crap, sigh, I guess it's just what happens on forums/websites...there are always a few of "those". Such is life.

A few of what, Niki? Lets be clear here, so that us who fall under your "those" category can understand what you mean. I have trouble with big scary words, too, so maybe use little ones and write S.L.O.W.L.Y. After all, we're crazy conspiracy theorists, right? Wouldn't want us to get excitable because we've misunderstood you.

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Monday, November 23, 2009 8:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:

"Lou Dobbs fired by Mexican Jews!" Is perfectly acceptable. I thought "Going Rouge" was clever, I was just going to rag on whoever did it. Changing the Lou Dobb's thread to "Pirate News fired by CNN/Obama/Reptilians" would be insensitive, as it disrupts anyone who wants to discuss Lou Dobbs.

I'll cop to the "fired by Mexican Jews" title change. Sometimes PN starts changing titles, and he starts getting carried away and ramping up the crazy, so I throw a silly title at him just to put a pipe in his spokes the trip him up a bit. His other-other title was the "Reptilian/Jews/Obama" thing, which I felt richly needed changing.

Quote:

Remember, there's an old rule here, which is no multiposting of threads. If PN posts the first Lou Dobbs thread, it's the only Lou Dobbs thread, until there's a completely different Lou Dobbs subject.

Actually, if you look at the threads, I posted my "Olbermann 1 - Dobbs 0" thread the night before PN put his up. But his got more traffic, so became the de facto Lou Dobbs thread. My Olbermann reference was more of a poke at ol' WhoZit, who always believed that Olbermann was going to end the year face-down at the bottom of a cliff, and looked forward to laughing at our pain.

Far as I can see, there really IS no rule about first-dibs on posting topics. Put 'em up, and whoever gets the traffic gets the prize. Seems fair to me.

Besides, in my book I already won that one - ByteMite said the pic I posted was going on her fridge, which I take as a high compliment indeed, especially coming from one so uneasily impressed!

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Monday, November 23, 2009 8:37 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Byte, by "those" I meant people who get into truly nasty snarking posts which go back and forth for a while before (hopefully) getting back to the original topic. Thanx for the snark, by the way...assuming is usually not a good idea.

I never called you or anyone else a "crazy conspiracy theorist" nor did I mean that. Merely that I'm not well versed enough to discuss or debate theories on who's really behind what or other theories people hold; not that they're "crazy" for having the theories, just that I don't know enough to discuss them.

Quote:
A few of what, Niki? Lets be clear here, so that us who fall under your "those" category can understand what you mean. I have trouble with big scary words, too, so maybe use little ones and write S.L.O.W.L.Y. After all, we're crazy conspiracy theorists, right? Wouldn't want us to get excitable because we've misunderstood you.

You really feel that strongly against me that this was necessary? I'm sad to hear that. It's an example of what I was referring to, and is a pretty strong rebuttal to a simple comment not meant to offend anyone. Sorry you felt otherwise.

Quote:
Why? Because Palin is that bad (which I'll concede), or because you think Ron Paul is a kook?

The former, and a little bit of the latter (tho' not nearly as bad as the former).

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Monday, November 23, 2009 9:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:

2. I believe our political system to be completely rigged. I think that no candidates are really serious leaders, but are just auditioning for a role of "mascot." I'm serious about Sarah Palin, It wasn't a joke. I think that the GOP registration is plummeting, and the number of people who will be voting in a GOP primary will be <20 million. Maybe 10 or 15. This would means that if all Ron Paul supporters were to register republican to vote in the primary, they could in theory make him win.

I know you think the system is utterly, irredeemably rigged. I know you say I underestimate the power of TPTB. But *I* think YOU underestimate the power of THE PEOPLE. Once in a great while, shit happens, a groundswell of public support becomes a tidal wave, and even TPTB are swept up and overwhelmed by it, before they can even realize what's happening. The end of apartheid in South Africa comes to mind, and even more starkly, the fall of the Berlin Wall. It was a throw-away line for Reagan (JFK could take as much credit for it as Reagan gets), and NO ONE saw it coming. The best intel agencies in the world were completely taken by surprise by what was in ACCIDENTAL announcement of an UNAPPROVED policy change in East Germany, inadvertently let slip by some middle manager in the East German state department, and before he could say "Voopsie!", the crowds were at the Brandenberg Gate, and the wall was being chipped away with picks and hammers (would that it could have been hammers and sickles, because the irony would have been SOOOOO delicious!).

Sometimes, We The People will really surprise you.

Quote:

Theory. Reality is that the system would never *let* Ron Paul win. But TPTB actually *want* Sarah Palin to win. I think that they assume that she is a moron and would be easy to trample, for an Obama re-election, esp. when you throw in Lou Dobbs or other splitters.

Okay, THAT is the Number One reason to oppose your dreams of Palin-in-Chief. If, as you say, The Powers That Be really WANT her in charge, that's all the reason you need to be sure she's the wrong person to be in charge. I mean, I could as easily say that Obama was a Trojan horse, and we only put him up because we knew he'd be a media darling, but once he got in, we'd turn this dump into a Socialist Workers' Paradise. How'd that plan work out?

Granted, Sarah IS the best candidate to be put up as an empty-headed puppet since Dubya. Of course, there again, how'd that work out for ya? He was a neocon's wet dream: A completely empty vessel, without a single strongly-held belief in his little black heart, and who was so gullible that he was not only willing to shill what the neocons were selling, but he was able to utterly convince himself that it was what he'd believed all along.

When I see Sarah Palin, I see the exact same dead-behind-the-eyes look on her face, and hear the exact same words coming out of her mouth. "How would you fix the economy?" "I'd cut taxes, and I'd create jobs." Really? How would you do those things? "By first cutting taxes, and then by creating jobs." Really? Really?

Quote:

I started this with the understanding that Sarah Palin was going to happen because TPTB wanted her to. This is purely strategic, and IMHO, pretty clever. I think a few people get this but I'm surprised by how many people don't.

So her quit-now-and-answer-questions-never attitude is just "strategy"? Is that like Rudy Giuliani's "bet-it-all-on-Florida" strategy? I expect it to have the same results. Or make Giuliani look like the smarter of the two.

Quote:

The rabbit out of the hat here is to turn Ron Paul into Sarah Palin without TPTB knowing, which is politically possible. And possibly, a damn good idea. I wanted comments on that concept, weakpoints, strategic ideas, etc.

No, the rabbit out of the hat here is to turn Sarah Palin into a competent leader. And I don't believe in magic. ;)

You've got one hell of a PR campaign to run, long before you can start running a Presidential campaign. Palin's getting a real reputation as a quitter, she's becoming known as a campaign killer (she's seen by many as the REAL reason McCain lost, since the post-convention "bump" didn't last long at all, and then she actually started pulling his numbers DOWN, sharply), and her recent "success" at getting a Democrat elected to the NY 23rd Congressional District are all things she's going to have to struggle HARD to overcome.

Plus there's the fact that she has a nasty habit of coming across as VERY petty and vindictive in interviews, if not downright dismissive.

In short, we really CAN'T attack Palin's "policies", because she doesn't have any that she can articulate. "Create Jobs" is as empty a policy plank as "Change" or "Si se puede". Sure, it SOUNDS good, but how the hell does she plan on pulling it off? And don't tell us it's too important to share with us, or it's a secret, because after the last 8 years, that doesn't really engender much trust in me.

And with that, I need to get back to work!

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Monday, November 23, 2009 9:04 AM

Oh, and real quickly -

Yes, I think Ron Paul is a kook. Maybe more than just a little bit of a kook.

That said, that is certainly no reason to vote against him. There might be a ton of reasons NOT to vote for him, but kooky doesn't count as one of 'em in my book. After all, we elected a man who called his wife "Mommy" and another who thought sodomizing interns with cigars was grand entertainment. "Kooky" is the LEAST of my worries. Remember, I (like DT, I've noticed) supported Ross Perot. I know from kooky. :)

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Monday, November 23, 2009 9:31 AM

Mike,

You should link your prior thread when this happens.

Quote:

Sometimes, We The People will really surprise you.

Let me know if it ever happens. Keep reading...

Byte,

You're missing my point. GOP voter registration is plummeting, there will be possibly as low as 10 million *real* republicans at the primary.

If the Ron Paul *independent* movement joins, they simply outnumber the real GOP. Nothing else really matters.

It's a total swarm attack.

Okay, if so, Why Palin? (or some other stooge)

Because it *has* to be a trojan horse. If TPTB actually *see* Mike's "we the people" revolution, they will squash it like a bug, the same way they do every time. Any internet study would show you that there was far more support for Ron Paul than for any candidate of either party.

But, TPTB nipped that in the bud, because they feared it.

The only move that will work is a stealth attack.

Palin has some charisma, and who she is isn't important. Without resistance from the MSM, it would work something like this:

Revolutionaries, libertarians, Ron Paulers, whatever, maybe 30 million of them. Organize 1/2 to join the GOP, whoever they vote for automatically wins.

Then, in the general election, 90% of voters never change parties, from one election to the next, so there will only be 10-20 million votes in dispute. If your revolution votes for your candidate, again, the ticket is an auto-win.

Okay, Now the Ron Paulers are not going to vote for Palin even if she supports the platform, without some guarantee. Hence, Palin/Paul. Now, sure, this palls with TPTB, who put up Dobbs as a splitter. You have to win Dobbs, or whoever they throw up as a splitter back, by offering him a position like sec. of def. or something.

Now, Mike, I've already demonstrated how you make Palin into an effective leader: She does whatever her advisors (us) tell her to, until randomly one day she quits, and then Ron Paul is president.

Essentially, the core of this strategy has little to do with Palin. I was just reacting to TPTB clearly putting Palin up as a choice that they would accept. You are *never* going to get a choice that they *won't* accept, because even if they can't rig the election, they can just assassinate the candidate.

So, logically:

Independents+Christians=Majority

That's the logic.

Palin/Paul wins damn near 100% of the Christian vote. So does Huck/Paul, of Palin/Huck, etc.

We need to become the huge swing voting block, and the lobby that supports it.

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Monday, November 23, 2009 1:23 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
because even if they can't rig the election, they can just assassinate the candidate.

So what stops them from assassinating Paul?

I'm afraid it sounds to far out for me...there are too many suppositions that haven't been proven--to me at least. And in office for even one day, I can easily imagine the havoc Palin could wreak.

As to telling her what to do...was the McCain campaign very effective in that? I see the lady as doing precisely what she wants whenever she wants, and with power...it boggles the imagination. Besides, your assumption she'd quit is a biggie...she quit before, but had to do WORK at both those things, as Prez she could do what she wanted and avoid the real work.

Still waiting to see what Byte has to say about her remark to me...if anything?

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Monday, November 23, 2009 1:34 PM

A lot harder to assassinate a president than a candidate. Also, select a new VP who would be much more of a nightmare for TPTB and give him a Cheney Lair.

I'm sorry Niki, I'm with the crowd here: I don't really expect that Sarah effectuates anything without being told, except maybe to try to interrupt McCain's concession, earning that priceless glare to Willow from Bridget

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Monday, November 23, 2009 1:37 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Who do you figure told her to quit as Governor? Just curious.

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Monday, November 23, 2009 1:45 PM

Niki, I think you and Byte are misunderstanding each other, and both ramping up the disagreement. Trust me on this one - I'm an expert at it!

Or, as Frem often points out (regarding me sniping back and forth with some others): "Time to bonk you BOTH on the head!"

I don't think you two really have any issues between you; I think a couple little snarks and counter-snarks raised hackles, is all.

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Monday, November 23, 2009 1:59 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I hope DT hasn't misunderstood me as you appear to have, Mike. I seriously wasn't snarking, I asked some questions, honest, in response to what she posted, and posted my own beliefs and opinions.

There was absolutely NO intention to snark...I wonder if snarking has become so much the normal thing around here that people do it so easily they misread honest statements as snarks? I mean THAT seriously, too; rereading what I wrote, I can see how it COULD be taken as a snark if one EXPECTED a snark, but it never entered my mind, I was having a serious discussion. Not even a debate; while I disagree with her theories, I was merely curious about what seemed to be a couple of flaws in them.

DT, if you took it as snarking, please understand, it wasn't; I really was just asking.

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Monday, November 23, 2009 3:24 PM

Sorry, Niki - when it comes to a Joss board, I kind of expect snark to be the default position. :)

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Monday, November 23, 2009 3:31 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Who do you figure told her to quit as Governor? Just curious.

Hello,

I have been wondering this since it happened.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Monday, November 23, 2009 7:03 PM

Quote:
Niki
Who do you figure told her to quit as Governor? Just curious.

The GOP. I thought this was obvious. They forced her hand. Quit, and we'll make you a star, or stay, and we'll burn you alive.

They want another perfect stooge like Kerry and Gore, people who will lose. That's why I think taking over Palin is a good trojan horse move, and would fuck over TPTB if she actually won, with someone else's backing ;)

Oh, and no one put your hopes on Dobbs, he's just here to split the vote. TPTB are pretty sure they have control over Obama, and by 2012, they're going to make sure they have him trapped. The second term cabinet will be different, it always is: it's usually the trainwreck cabinet, designed to steal the most money and power and leave a disaster for the next guy.

oh, and I assumed it was a snark, but I also assumed being from the opposite side of the political spectrum, or what would be the one dimensional perspective, that your assumption and mine might not be the same, so I answered straight anyway.

Don't be so worried, people are snide as hell around here.

Also, you'll see people get hung up on the partisan angles, it's not worth it. The reality here is that the firefly angle is so much different from that held by anyone in power, that I'd gladly vote for anyone here over anyone that actually runs for office.. And yeah, Wulf, I mean that. We're all one tribe here, a tribe that has some internal disputes, but we all know that we're not just tools of TPTB. We might disagree on who we peg as threats, or what plans we might use to take down the alliance, but we're all on the same side here.

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Monday, November 23, 2009 7:13 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
We might disagree on who we peg as threats, or what plans we might use to take down the alliance, but we're all on the same side here.

Tsunami-level agreement here.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 1:08 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Bah, Palin quit because like a moron, she had no exit strategy - she bet all her chips on the win and burned a lot of bridges, left a lot of people hanging, or hanging out to dry, not just for political reasons but also personal ones, often out of sheer petty vindictiveness.

"Frosty" doesn't even begin to describe the manner in which she was received upon her return, not only did she embarrass and humiliate her own former constituents, she also exposed a lot of their own abuses and misconduct without even intending to.

And then, unwilling or unable to face the music, like any of these holier than thou types prevalent within the GOP, went and hid under a rock, hoping for short memories and a forgiveness I think has always been our biggest mistake in dealing with such scum ever since Ford pardoned Nixon, which, mind you, *DID* bite us on the ass during the Bush administrations, both of em!

Me, I'd like to find whatever rock she's hidin under and fucking stomp on it - finish off her career in ANY political arena forever and ever, hell, hunt her down and PROSECUTE her for the misconduct every seems bent on giving her a pass for.

Hell, this one really *IS* applicable to what I'd like to do to the GOP.

Ear to ear, all the way, no mercy.

-Frem

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 2:47 AM

RIVERLOVE

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Me, I'd like to find whatever rock she's hidin under and fucking stomp on it - finish off her career...

So what you're saying is YOU'D like to kill her, right? KILL a mother of five? That's pretty insane, even coming from a pathetic psychotic hater like you. Aside from the utter absurdity of your hopeless dementia, you also testify to the fact that you are just a big pussy. That's right! A punk-ass pussy who is scared to death of her. What ARE you SO afraid of with her? What did she ever do to YOU? Hey bub, she ain't hiding, and never has. You can catch up with her on her book tour somewhere. Ask you mommy for some bus money and go out and find Sarah. Then you can try to do your "stompin". The other thousands there will appreciate it, I'm sure.

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 4:39 AM

Never said she wasn't weak, but that's what they like: someone who they can control. But they're just setting her up as a fallgirl. I would laugh my ass off if she actually won. I still hold mine is a good contingency plan.

River,

Frem is just being trying to be evil again, it's an image like PN being crazy.

Oh look, I see her book is still #1.

I just watched Jon Stewart's latest attack on her. He had nothing. It was pretty pathetic. I like him generally, but when he gets all partisan he usually screws it up. Right now he's making flyswatter attacks at conservatives that fall flat, and he's missing some excellent opportunities to send up some on the left. SNL just pwned Obama. If Stewart weren't still kissing the president's feet, he could've done that. He still does a good job slamming the MSM.

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 5:01 AM