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Originally posted by Bytemite:
I'd love to see the corrupt get their comeuppance as well, but I hope I'm dead at the time. I see nothing to indicate that the Chinese won't be anything but brutal towards all Americans, not just our government.

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
I'd love to see the corrupt get their comeuppance as well, but I hope I'm dead at the time. I see nothing to indicate that the Chinese won't be anything but brutal towards all Americans, not just our government. The whole thing could precipitate a hostile Chinese takeover. What are goverments nowadays but big corporations? Same principle.

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I think the fear is overrated

when the United States is broken into Special Administrative Regions, similar to Hong Kong but likely five or six areas due to the size of the US there will be no reason for brutality.

The focus will move to productivity or manufacturing away from the artificial promotion of Wall street and casino economics.

Any brutality towards Americans will be due to either arrogance and ignorance ( no shortage )... or more likely folk conducting domestic terrorism against the new boss in a vain effort to maintain the failed experiment in which they were the slaves but just didn't know it.

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Originally posted by Bytemite:

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I think the fear is overrated

when the United States is broken into Special Administrative Regions, similar to Hong Kong but likely five or six areas due to the size of the US there will be no reason for brutality.

The focus will move to productivity or manufacturing away from the artificial promotion of Wall street and casino economics.

Any brutality towards Americans will be due to either arrogance and ignorance ( no shortage )... or more likely folk conducting domestic terrorism against the new boss in a vain effort to maintain the failed experiment in which they were the slaves but just didn't know it.

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Granted we're in a slave experiment now, but just because we'd "just" be under a new slave experiment with China doesn't mean that wouldn't be WORSE.

You really don't think the Chinese wouldn't lord it over the American population? Really? I see Americans as being unlikely to swear loyalty to the new Chinese overlords, which China will crack down on, HARD, like they do to their own population, or populations they consider under their jurisdiction (Tibet, Nepal, the borderland tribes). Surprisingly, Chinese Americans would most likely suffer the worst of it, as they might potentially be seen as traitors to the homeland.

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
You're... saying... It would be okay to to have a Chinese takeover if they introduced stability?

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
You're... saying... It would be okay to to have a Chinese takeover if they introduced stability?

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
So did anyone else notice that it was a SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE sketch?

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In May 2009, the US owed China $772 billion.

The debt limit was most recently raised to $12.104 trillion by the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (H.R.1), which was signed into law on February 17, 2009 (P.L. 111-5).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

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Americans overlords, Chinese overlords...

at least the chinese would try to make productive changes

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How many have suffered from American sponsored regime change... maybe a little regime change at home would be good for the soul

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
Kwicko: No, that was directed towards Gino, who right now, no offense or anything, is kinda making me go o.0

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Originally posted by Bytemite:

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Americans overlords, Chinese overlords...

at least the chinese would try to make productive changes

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Because PRODUCTION is all that matters. People? Not so much. That right?

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How many have suffered from American sponsored regime change... maybe a little regime change at home would be good for the soul

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Yeah, so because some Americans are douchebags who have made mistakes, BAD mistakes, sometimes even foul INTENTIONAL AWFUL policy, all Americans should immediately suffer a regime change under brutal communist China so the rest of the world can get some mother fucking REVENGE. That what you saying? Sure sounds like it to me!

I don't like my American government. I don't like how it works, and I even would go so far as to say I think our constitution is flawed, and hell, that we've probably even deviated from the spirit of it's intent right from the beginning.

But I'm not about to start advocating a whole bunch of innocent, if ignorant people have to start suffering because of what other people have done. You want a comparison to the middle east? What you're proposing is like saying we should kill and oppress all the Muslims because a few of them are extremists.

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Rofl,

I thought that was pretty funny.

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Yeah, so because some Americans are douchebags who have made mistakes, BAD mistakes, sometimes even foul INTENTIONAL AWFUL policy, all Americans should immediately suffer a regime change under brutal communist China so the rest of the world can get some mother fucking REVENGE. That what you saying? Sure sounds like it to me!

I don't like my American government. I don't like the people, I don't like how it works, and I even would go so far as to say I think our constitution is flawed, and hell, that we've probably even deviated from the spirit of it's intent right from the beginning.

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
Apparently you don't think the Chinese government is oppressive?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square_protests_of_1989

Once again, o.0 ???

And it sure sounds like there'd be Americans killed, especially if the Chinese government labeled our "freedom fighters" insurgents.

But anyway. I have to object to this, again, because productivity is NOT the most important thing here.

I'd also suggest that China itself is not so much about productivity as it is busy work and feeding frivolous consumerism.

But... Your point about the US government and the staying power of the two party system and our national security forces is well taken.

I'm just saying that there has to be a better and less horrifying solution than a Chinese takeover.

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but is it better to have people lose their homes, to have them not able to feed, clothe, or provide healthcare to their family's ?

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

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Yeah, so because some Americans are douchebags who have made mistakes, BAD mistakes, sometimes even foul INTENTIONAL AWFUL policy, all Americans should immediately suffer a regime change under brutal communist China so the rest of the world can get some mother fucking REVENGE. That what you saying? Sure sounds like it to me!

I don't like my American government. I don't like the people, I don't like how it works, and I even would go so far as to say I think our constitution is flawed, and hell, that we've probably even deviated from the spirit of it's intent right from the beginning.

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Byte, you should know Gino better than that. He's yanking your Yankee chain.

What Gino's pointing out is that there are those outside the U.S. who could actually make a pretty good case to the UN that America NEEDS regime change for the safety and benefit of the free world, that we are a rogue nation led by a series of despots. And since China IS a pretty stable government these days, might not they be the best ones to inflict a new government on us?

It's just another way of having an OBJECTIVE look at what we did in Iraq, and saying that the same case could be made against us, if someone really had a mind to.

And the saddest part, the part that really breaks my heart? He's not wrong.

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
I'm familiar with all those events. What you don't seem to be understanding here is that if China were to be in control of America, I couldn't even be posting on this message board right now.

I guess that's one way to win this argument...

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but is it better to have people lose their homes, to have them not able to feed, clothe, or provide healthcare to their family's ?

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They have that in China... That's not just an American thing...

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Originally posted by Bytemite:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

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Yeah, so because some Americans are douchebags who have made mistakes, BAD mistakes, sometimes even foul INTENTIONAL AWFUL policy, all Americans should immediately suffer a regime change under brutal communist China so the rest of the world can get some mother fucking REVENGE. That what you saying? Sure sounds like it to me!

I don't like my American government. I don't like the people, I don't like how it works, and I even would go so far as to say I think our constitution is flawed, and hell, that we've probably even deviated from the spirit of it's intent right from the beginning.

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Byte, you should know Gino better than that. He's yanking your Yankee chain.

What Gino's pointing out is that there are those outside the U.S. who could actually make a pretty good case to the UN that America NEEDS regime change for the safety and benefit of the free world, that we are a rogue nation led by a series of despots. And since China IS a pretty stable government these days, might not they be the best ones to inflict a new government on us?

It's just another way of having an OBJECTIVE look at what we did in Iraq, and saying that the same case could be made against us, if someone really had a mind to.

And the saddest part, the part that really breaks my heart? He's not wrong.

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Yeah, but I never supported Iraq OR Afghanistan. And I'm getting the idea that Gino actually seems to think this would be a good idea. It wasn't a good idea for Iraq or Afghanistan!

So yes it's wrong! It was wrong then, and it's wrong in this imaginary scenario.

There are better ways to ruin the US government, and lucky for us, they're doing all of them all by themselves.

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Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:

The current stimulus process in the US seems to provide bankers / investment houses with relief in the hopes of eventual job creation as a side effect. I watched a couple Senators last sunday on a program say no jobs have been created by the stimulus money yet, but they think some will come by the beginning of the second quarter next year.... is that good enough ?

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Originally posted by piratenews:

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Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:

The current stimulus process in the US seems to provide bankers / investment houses with relief in the hopes of eventual job creation as a side effect. I watched a couple Senators last sunday on a program say no jobs have been created by the stimulus money yet, but they think some will come by the beginning of the second quarter next year.... is that good enough ?

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The Free Healthcare Tax is just another bailout for the insurance corporations who wrote the bill, that Congress is neither allowed nor willing to read. 30-million Americans will still be without health insurance...

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No, instead we can chat as much as we liked monitored by your American security services subject to investigation and or arrest if they decide they want to...

I am sure China will expand their internet " freedoms " when their infrastructure allows them the same level of monitoring and control...

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watched a couple Senators last sunday on a program say no jobs have been created by the stimulus money yet, but they think some will come by the beginning of the second quarter next year.... is that good enough ?

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
And yet, the moment America starts tanking, everyone is already talking about shifting to other currencies, etc.

Most countries have seen for a while America has been going down the tubes, I expect many of them have contingency plans. The ones who have been planning the furthest ahead would become the new global economy foundation.

The countries most effected would be Europe, but America crashing wouldn't be the end of the world. You've been listening to too much of our bullshit propaganda.

What you are proposing, however, is to enslave the American population, under China, to keep business as usual going in other countries around the world. Why? Because you blame America for this? The people you would punish would still have had NO SAY WHATSOEVER in economic or international policy. The people who you'd really want to punish would have jumped ship long before.

The greatest good, sacrificing a few for the many is what you're proposing. Guess what? It's unethical.

The Afghanistan war model was flawed from the beginning, as was the reason to go to war in Afghanistan. You don't declare war on Terrorism, then NOT go after the terrorist cells, which probably isn't a feasible long term goal anyway. Al Qaeda pretty much hated the Taliban, and vice versa. The Taliban weren't sheltering Al Qaeda, they're international. Of course, in Afghanistan, NOW the two are working together because they don't have much choice. But this is off topic.

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As for America... you are a democracy aren't you? In theory you have all had your say in both your economic and foreign policy's... are you saying there is no responsibility ?

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sure, countrys are trying to firewall themselves, but do you really believe that if the US defaults on its international debt it wouldn't effect China economy that much ? or Europe ?

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:

Of course who here wouldn't like to see the US govt. leveled. Aside from maybe nik and sig.

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No, we're not a democracy. We're a fascist authoritarian state disguised as a republic.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:

Of course who here wouldn't like to see the US govt. leveled. Aside from maybe nik and sig.

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I just want it cleaned up. Big-time.


The laughing Chrisisall

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Originally posted by Riverlove:

Don't worry too much Chris as all that you desire will happen soon enough. This Democrat-led Govt. will be thrown out of office next year when they lose both houses of Congress in historic fashion. The only down side for you unfortunately, is that there likely will NOT be room at the table for your Taliban pals. You did say the other day they deserved a seat in the Afghan Govt. didn't you? And who could argue with that bit of wisdom, right Chris? You've missed the beheadings, whippings, rapes, stonings, acid-in-the-face attacks on schoolgirls haven't you? You want to see all that brought back, right Chrisisalltaliban?

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Originally posted by Riverlove:
Don't worry too much Chris as all that you desire will happen soon enough. This Democrat-led Govt. will be thrown out of office next year when they lose both houses of Congress in historic fashion. The only down side for you unfortunately, is that there likely will NOT be room at the table for your Taliban pals. You did say the other day they deserved a seat in the Afghan Govt. didn't you? And who could argue with that bit of wisdom, right Chris? You've missed the beheadings, whippings, rapes, stonings, acid-in-the-face attacks on schoolgirls haven't you? You want to see all that brought back, right Chrisisalltaliban?

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If this is the case, I don't really see why you're arguing against being "stabilized" by China. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

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Originally posted by Bytemite:

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If this is the case, I don't really see why you're arguing against being "stabilized" by China. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

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Because one of them is dumb enough to try to be covert about it, which can be taken advantage of. For some reason, the American government still appears to care about public opinion enough to manipulate it, instead of just crushing it to do whatever they want.

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
I think the argument for letting the Taliban participate in elections is that 1) it gives some legitimacy to the government, a message that reinforces that we're there to help the people of Afghanistan choose who they want to rule them even if it's people we disagree with, and 2) when the Taliban gets absolutely NO votes, we get to laugh at them because they just hung themselves with the rope we offered them. Mwahaha.

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