The Powers That Be by dreamtrove

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The Powers That Be

POSTED BY: DREAMTROVE
UPDATED: Saturday, December 5, 2009 18:44
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Thursday, November 19, 2009 11:44 AM

I'm always bothered by the term "they" in political usage. They killed Kennedy, and now they might try to kill Obama, it's all a sham anyway because they didn't really land on the moon, they are just about money and power, that's why they created the Federal Reserve system, but *they* live a really really long time. What are they, Vampires? Okay, sure, but before you answer that, let's get down to brass tacks.

Who or what are the powers that be. It's a good placeholder, but I think before Pirate News jumps up and says "Jews! Jews! Jews!" (Sorry man, but I knew you were about to do it, directly or not) I want to start a discussion of specifics, with less *they* and a little more "Specifically I mean..."

Okay, I'm going to start with me. I'm part of they and have some relatives with connections, but also descended from people who were once powers that were.

In the beginning, my ancestors were cavemen, I know because I genetically match some alpine cave remains of 35,000 BC or so, so okay, I can trace part of my family tree that way. These people never left their little around which is about the size of the township of Mat-Su, which is the township that Wasilla is the center of, and yet they controlled vast empires etc.

Around 500 AD they appear on the political map as barbarian tribal leaders. Pagans. They convert to Christianity, first Gothic, around 800 ad, then around 1200 ad, Catholicism. They move up the social ladder a lot, from the 1550s forward, they're all nobles, lords and ladies. Their wealth is built on river mining for gold, and once in the aristocracy, from connections and alliances. In the 1700s, they fall out of favor. it's fairly late holy roman empire, and being some on the reformation side, things shape up in not their direction, and they shrink back from their power positions.

Sure, during this power time, my direct ancestors are related to lots of people who are in power, Marie Antoinette, which is fine by me, and King Leopold II of Belgium who probably fits the "evil bastard" level that Frem doesn't really want to be: contenders for the 10 worst humans. But all that said and done, my family never more than lesser nobles, falls out of favor, and out of power, and by 1800 they're headed for financial ruin.

In the 1800s they convert to Judaism, and rapidly rise back up. They become bankers, fund and diplomatically aid in German unification. They also still support the Empire. They stay in power until anti-semitism, and then they all become Lutherins 1900-1920, but a lot of them end up getting executed in the holocaust anyway for being "jewish sympathizers" and "enemies of the Reich." Their wealth is stolen and joins the nazi gold and goes off to some vault in zurich, and some goes to london in a nazi banking scheme, the total is about a billion 1938 dollars.

Okay, sure, to PN they're war profiteers and banksters, but it's also clear to me that they care deeply about trying to do the right thing, and not just promoting themselves, but that they don't really care which religion they belong to. They're probably just best described as Czech-German-Austrian nationalists, or imperials, and decidedly anti-war.

But they're also a continuous family which fits Frem's and PN's theories of the bad guys. I look at them completely objectively, but I don't see the picture painted here. Their rise and staying power seems to have no real connection to a belief in their own superiority, but a desire to do the right thing through influence, and that they succeed because they have connection, not because of a caste style class structure. When that fails them, they find a new one. Like becoming jews. A There's no jewish marriage that I can find, they just became "jew for a day" and it looks to me like they did it for social mobility.

But another curious bothersome thing that I uncovered but the evidence is too overwhelming to ignore, is that they joined Judaism through B'Nai B'Rith, of which they were notable members of the ruling elite, and had no jewish past, and that Zionism and modern Judaism at the time practically didn't exist. Zionist organizations like this perpetuated the idea of 5,000 years of continuity, but really it looks much more to me like this was a culture and society created in the mid 19th century, and that Judaism as we know it is no older than Crowley's neo-paganism. The position "Rabbi" is not old, nor is the Hebrew language, or the Jewish state of Israel. Ancient israel didn't speak Ancient hebrew, which is not the same language as modern Hebrew, which is a conlang, and they did not worship Jehovah, they worshipped Elohim, which is a false god under modern Judaism. It's a society created in a think tank by people like my own ancestors.

So, what does this say, if anything? What's the rest of the story? I could follow other threads through my mother's side of the family, and how they were connected, many part of the old guard of white society, in positions of power in politics, business, and yes, banking, all of which fell apart a couple generations before mine. Ironic, I grew up penniless, and yet I had great grandparents on both sides that were billionaires.

So, I don't buy the jewish conspiracy, even if it exists, it's a new modern creation of a route to power for the same pack of rats that's been angling for power for ever, recruiting new rats, some get the boot, others get promoted, and perhaps it's a matter of whether you're in line with the agenda, or maybe the whole thing is just a form of social evolution.

If it's social evolution, then we need to recognize that society is an artificial construct and change the rules of the game so that killing people and destroying the Earth doesn't create power.

Also, what about these think tanks? If any of us get together and scheme for change, are we one? How do we not become a brain trust like the Federalists, listening to only each other hearing only the things we want to hear, and eventually creating the unvetted bad policies that think tanks of the past created?

I'm pondering not just the powers that be and who they are, Goldman Sachs or whatever, but also the nature by which they rise and fall, and the social evolutionary mechanisms that propel them to success, or cause them to collapse.

But... It's just that it's buggin' me, this 'cool' thing. I mean, what is it? How do you get it? Who doesn't have it? And
who decides who doesn't have it? What is the essence of cool?

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Thursday, November 19, 2009 4:24 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Your final query reminds me of Bruce Campbell doing a deoderant commercial. I have to find it now...

I'm sorry, that wasn't particularly poignant. But a bump of sorts, at least.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Thursday, November 19, 2009 5:21 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Thursday, November 19, 2009 5:35 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Joss says it's the Black Thorn Secret Society. He had Gunn kill Hellspawn Senator Hillary Clinton in the final episode of Angel, with an axe.

Then the demon Civil War was unleashed, today.

That is all.

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Thursday, November 19, 2009 6:10 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Really ?

Follow the fucking MONEY - it's just that simple.

But if you wanna get all specific and suchlike, start with the names named in The Business Plot and work in both directions from there.

-F

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Thursday, November 19, 2009 6:39 PM

DREAMTROVE

I disagree. I was looking at the group dynamic, what makes them rise and fall. It's easy to spot the who's who of the underworld. The strange dynamic of my ancestors and the ebb and flow of power, then jumping on the new bandwagon. It also interested me that what we know of as Judaism was fairly new, mid to late 19th c., not nearly old enough to be the conspiracy that PN makes it out to be.

That said, he is right that Joss Killed of Hillary ;)

Tony, it was a direct quote, you're Joss-deprived.

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Thursday, November 19, 2009 6:53 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Tony, it was a direct quote, you're Joss-deprived.

Hello,

I probably am Joss deprived. Due to the quirks of my personality, there is only one Joss Whedon show that I liked a lot. One I liked some. One I liked a little. One I disliked intensely.

Overall, Joss Whedon has been a disappointment to me. But he did create one thing I really enjoyed, and I admire his tenacity and success despite the odds.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:17 PM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
I disagree. I was looking at the group dynamic, what makes them rise and fall. It's easy to spot the who's who of the underworld. The strange dynamic of my ancestors and the ebb and flow of power, then jumping on the new bandwagon. It also interested me that what we know of as Judaism was fairly new, mid to late 19th c., not nearly old enough to be the conspiracy that PN makes it out to be.

That's new. What about the cult of Sinai?

Although, it makes some sense to me. There were lots of doomsday prophecies running around for some reason in the 19th century. One of those is what spawned the Mormon Church and led to my ancestors leaving Scotland.

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Saturday, November 28, 2009 2:28 PM

DREAMTROVE

Byte,

The original "zionists" migrated from Sinai to Zion around the first millennium BC, some try to put that date aroudn 1450BC, I wouldn't try to be that exact.

One curious thing about this: When they got to Jerusalem, it was already a city, but abandoned. Zion is a mountain overlooking the city, one of three sacred mountains to the faith, Sinai, Zion, and Har'meggido, or "Armageddon" as it's more commonly known. They worshiped a primeval god named "Sin" though it may have been pronounced "shin" we don't know. I also won't speculate as to his relation to other gods in the hebrew or egyptian pantheons; or whether there is any connection to the word "sin" but it's probably unlikely. I will say what I do know:

1. Sinai is named for Sin, and the Mt. of Sin.
2. Sin was a fire god. He lived in the mountain, an active volcano.
3. Followers believed that Sin toiled eternally in caves of fire to gain power over the world.
4. They also believed that if he were a true believer, your reward would be to eternally toil with him, far beneath the earth in caves of fire.

That said, it's speculated that YHWH, or jehovah, which means I am, which comes from "I am he whose name cannot be spoken" was a moniker for Sin, to diguise his identity, and because "to speak his name gives the mortal man power over God, and no man should have power over God" or something to that effect.

I can't verify the connection between Sin and and YHWH, but I think it's very likely.

5. At some point between the 4th and 2nd centuries BC some theologian replaced the names of a great many deities in the old testament to "YHWH" from various other names, creating a nonsensical flow of behavior. This was undoubtedly done because monotheism was a popular idea among the priesthood at the time, not because Israel was monotheistic, or had been, or because there was any connection. For instance, Enki, god of the underworld, in an attempt to thwart the creator, El, flooded the Earth, which is why Noah built the ark. In the edited version, YHWH floods the Earth to thwart his own creation (hey creationists: look! god just admitted to making a mistake!) and then tells noah to build the ark.

6. For some reason many other deities remain, perhaps because prior to the 2nd century, the "books" were separate books, and not all edited by the same person. At any rate, all other deities essentially get merged into "Satan" in the final draft of the new testament, except for El. El is explicitly the god of Jesus, and the god of Israel, and also Allah, but has no prior connection that I know of to YHWH, or whomever YHWH is a moniker for.

7. There are a number of other "cult theories" including a fair amount on Amun-Ra, or Amen and the posited reason for all prayers to end in "amen" is homage to Amen.

There's a lot of lunacy in all of this sort of research, but more than an ounce of truth.

Saying that this is one continuous line of conspiracy or that it is collectively TPTB is too much for me. I'd be tempted to say that zionism is one part of TPTB, but that it doesn't directly date back much further than the mid 19th c.

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Saturday, November 28, 2009 4:06 PM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
5. At some point between the 4th and 2nd centuries BC some theologian replaced the names of a great many deities in the old testament to "YHWH" from various other names, creating a nonsensical flow of behavior. This was undoubtedly done because monotheism was a popular idea among the priesthood at the time, not because Israel was monotheistic, or had been, or because there was any connection. For instance, Enki, god of the underworld, in an attempt to thwart the creator, El, flooded the Earth, which is why Noah built the ark. In the edited version, YHWH floods the Earth to thwart his own creation (hey creationists: look! god just admitted to making a mistake!) and then tells noah to build the ark.

This actually seems to be a very common element in a number of old world tribes/nations, and not just in the middle east. It's possible the flood myth predates El and Enki.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.html

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Saturday, November 28, 2009 6:02 PM

DREAMTROVE

Sure, there's no shortage of floods. The most common historical reference of the flood is a major flooding of Tigres and Euphrates which destroyed Sumeria early on. Only the highland settlements survived. Since the tale appears in the Enki form in the Sumerian Bible, and i fairly literally taken into the old testament, I think that the text connection is sound.

The point of the flood is not the flood itself, which has been postulated to have come from a rising water table, possibly due to melting ice from the lower caucuses, in a post-ice age global warming.

The ark is the point. It's a parable for saving social structure and preserving knowledge during an apocalyptic time. The ark has many uses, and is undoubtedly one underlying idea behind the formation of Israel, though 1890-1919, the times were not yet apocalyptic (yes, you could go a lot of ways with this one.)

My point was, it's a story, copied from one religious text to another, the idea adapted, and how it got distorted, similar to the adaptation of the ten commandments from the Egyptian book of the dead. Slight changes have been made, but the moral core remains the same.

A similar thing can be seen in the US adaptation of Britain's "Bill of Rights" into our constitution, (as they had to the new england confederacy and the AOC IIRC) an act which the federalist fought steadfastly against, and the denial of which was the driving force behind the creation of the current Constitution and of the Supreme Court (little known fact.)

Since I view TPTB as more of an idea collection of ideas, and methodologie, I think this sort of discussion is very pertinent.

The adaption of the Ark story, as well as of the Ten Commandments, and the Bill of Rights, betrays some mechanisms of TPTB, and the adoption, adaptation and assimilation of other cultures ideals and core values, while slightly modifying them to suit their own purposes.

For the Bill of Rights, the adaptation is the nature that this document is only to be interpreted by a new unelected clergy: the supreme court.

The ten commandments: Thou shalt not have any other gods, no graven images, etc. serves the new monotheists and cultists (worshiping one god while believing in many) very well, as does the single-deity adaptation of the ark, while preserving the idea, and adding a nice little allegorical story to the religion, pulling in people who already believe in the myth, etc.

Quote:
Chapter 125
“Hail to thee, great God, Lord of the Two Truths. I have come unto thee, my Lord, that thou mayest bring me to see thy beauty. I know thee, I know thy name, I know the names of the 42 Gods who are with thee in this broad hall of the Two Truths . . . Behold, I am come unto thee. I have brought thee truth; I have done away with sin for thee. I have not sinned against anyone. I have not mistreated people. I have not done evil instead of righteousness . . . I have not reviled the God. I have not laid violent hands on an orphan. I have not done what the God abominates . . . I have not killed; I have not turned anyone over to a killer. I have not caused anyone’s suffering . . . I have not copulated (illicitly); I have not been unchaste. I have not increased nor diminished the measure, I have not diminished the palm; I have not encroached upon the fields. I have not added to the balance weights; I have not tempered with the plumb bob of the balance. I have not taken milk from a child’s mouth; I have not driven small cattle from their herbage… I have not stopped (the flow of) water in its seasons; I have not built a dam against flowing water. I have not quenched a fire in its time . . . I have not kept cattle away from the God’s property. I have not blocked the God at his processions. “

- the Book of the Dead originates at least from 2600 BCE with many versions following. They contain instructions for life after death, a sort of manual. The Hebrew version (10 commandments) originates also IN Egypt (1490 BCE Hebrew exodus from Egypt).
- the main difference is that the Hebrew version is shorter, the 42 gods are replaced by 1 god and the sabbath has been added.

The text was well known to the ancient Hebrews, who worked and lived in Egypt for some time, not as slaves, and often as rulers, though almost certainly not as early as 2600 BC. (The slavery thing came later. It was common to make prisoners of war out of slaves. Hebrews invaded egypt for the purpose of taking gold for Hebrew temples, and the operation did not go well, the result being the enslavement of some Hebrews. Probably there was no "exodus," but rather the area in question was recaptured by the new judeans, who then freed the Hebrew slaves.) But I digress.

Adaptation of pre-existing beliefs with slight modification is definitely a mechanism of TPTB, and I think we can find a fair number of examples of this.

Since there was a debate about Caral and the descendant colonies a while ago, I would point out that this was a principle mechanism of this civilization which eventually became the Inca territories. Before the rise of the Inca, the Wari left an abundance of evidence to their methods, not to mention countless similar city states, all of which befell the same fate as Caral, which is to say self-devestation. (sorry, cross-over to the Afghanistan thread, also)

Wari of Peru, or Huari, are not to be confused with the Wari of Brazil, an unrelated amazon tribe.

This was how it was done by the Power that Be of the Wari Empire:

1. Send envoys to a newly encountered tribe.
2. Set up a minor trade relation with the new tribe, let's call it the 'Qina.'
3. Study the new tribe, its culture, symbolism, etc.
4. Return to the master works of the Wari temple, and present the findings.

Here's where the integration takes place.

Lets say the Qina worship a bird God called "Miza" who is symbolized by a feather inside a circle.

Wari would write a new text, that created Mizu as a Wari bird god, and place him under some extant god, somewhere in the pantheon. They would then adopt the feather symbol, and cultural traces.

As trade continued, eventually the Qina would get an item in trade bearing the feather mark. They would be curious. They'd ask about it, and hear that this was "Miza," who was some sort of bird, an ancient Wari thing that the merchants knew little about. Qina would have to travel to discover more.

So, Qina, the new tribe, would travel to the temple, and discover that Miza was Mizu, and there were just too many similarities for this to be coincidence. They would also come to believe that Mizu was in fact descended from Miza, and not the other way around, and that the traces of Qina culture, were actually derived from Wari culture, and that they were, in fact, a lost tribe of the Wari.

5. Now their integration into the Wari empire was easy. Miza held a high standing, and its priests could enter into the Wari temple, the Qina had much to learn about what they had come to believe was "their own" history, and soon, they were an integral part of the empire.

This is a clever adaptation of the mechanism I call the "We are you" manner of advertising.

a) We are you. We are the group of you. We're the league of your type of human, you are that type of human. you should learn more about you (iow, us, learn about us, believe we are you, join us)

b) Welcome. Here are the rules of us. Since you are one of us, you should follow the rules of us. You will naturally value the values of us, (written by us, for you to follow) because they are the rules of you, and they were made by you/us for your/our best interests, because there is no difference, since you are us.

c) You believe in the rules of you, after all you created them, (when you were us) but for these to be empowered, you must fight to make sure that the rights of you (us) are upheld, and that all others, the not-you, accept the rules of you/us, since they are what gives you power/freedom/acceptance. You want to have equality freedom or power, and you deserve it, and *they* will reject the "rules" if you don't fight for them.

Ever meet a society like this one? Or Twenty. ;)

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Saturday, November 28, 2009 6:14 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:

I'm always bothered by the term "they" in political usage. They killed Kennedy, and now they might try to kill Obama, it's all a sham anyway because they didn't really land on the moon, they are just about money and power, that's why they created the Federal Reserve system, but *they* live a really really long time. What are they, Vampires?

www.collegehumor.com/video:1923605

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Saturday, November 28, 2009 7:34 PM

DREAMTROVE

lol

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Saturday, December 5, 2009 9:07 AM

OUT2THEBLACK

Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:

I'm always bothered by the term "they" in political usage. They killed Kennedy, and now they might try to kill Obama, it's all a sham anyway because they didn't really land on the moon, they are just about money and power, that's why they created the Federal Reserve system, but *they* live a really really long time. What are they, Vampires?

www.collegehumor.com/video:1923605

Yup...Vampires...An Empire of Vampires :

'...In her extraordinary book, "Web of Debt," financial writer Ellen Brown tells "the shocking truth about our money system, (how it) trapped us in debt, and how we can break free." She quotes banker/developer Reed Simpson saying:

"Credible evidence (reveals) a world (banking) power elite intent on gaining absolute control over the planet and its natural resources, including its subservient human (ones)." It's the Bilderberg Group classless society idea of rulers, serfs, and no middle class by controlling the world's money. What Baron MA Rothschild (1818 - 1874) meant by saying:

"Give me control over a nation's currency and I care not who makes its laws." Today it applies globally.

Money is bankers' "lifeblood,....fear (their) weapon." Ill-used, they'll "enslave nations and ensure perpetual wars and bondage."
Brown explained all and proposed a solution.'

http://www.countercurrents.org/lendman051209.htm

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Saturday, December 5, 2009 9:24 AM

OUT2THEBLACK

'...Humanity is on the verge of entering into the most tumultuous period in our history. The prospects of a global depression, the likes of which have never been seen before; a truly global war, on a scale never before imagined; and societal collapse, for which nations of the world are building totalitarian police states to control populations; are increasing by the day. The major global trend forecasters are sounding the alarms on economic depression, war, a return to fascism and a total reorganization of society. Through crisis, we are seeing the reorganization of the global political economy, and the transformation of capitalism into a totalitarian capitalist world government. Capitalism has never stayed the same through its history; it has always changed and will continue to do so. Its changes are explained and analyzed through political-economic theory, both mainstream theory and critical. The changes are undertaken over years, decades and centuries. The next phase of capitalism is one in which the world moves to a state-controlled economic system, much like China, of totalitarian capitalism.

_The global political economy itself is being reorganized into a world government body, consisting of one center of global power where the socio-political-economic power of the world is centralized in one institution. This is not a conspiracy theory; it is a reality. Nor is this a subject confined to the realm of "internet conspiracy theorists," but in fact, the concept of world government originates and evolves throughout the history of capitalism and the global political economy. Mainstream and critical political-economic theory has addressed the concept of world government for centuries.

_The notion of a world government has such a long history, as the forces driving the world into such a structure intertwine with the history of the modern global political economy itself. The purpose of this report is to examine the history of the global political economy in taking steps toward forming a world government, in both theory and practice.

How did we get here and where are we going? "

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Banks/GlobalGovt_CentralBanks.html

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Saturday, December 5, 2009 9:46 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

The video was hysterical, thank you!

I'm sorry, I couldn't make it through the long posts about where we come from and all. I can't speak to the history of man; I don't even know much about my own ancestors. But as for current "they", I kinda think most of us know which "they" we're talking about, and it changes for different topics. I try to identify who/what I'm talking about so that when I refer to "they", it harkens back to whoever/whatever.

"They" for me can be Wall Street, the goernment, powers within the government, specific politicians/groups of politicians, right-wing nutbags (and left-wing when I see them), etc. But in general:

I think there are two types of politicians. Those who want power for the sake of power and money, and those who actually want to do good (and any mix of the two). I imagine each of us has his or her own ooncept of "they", as well.

Me, I nominate C Street. That secretive group has its thumb in many aspects of our society, and is definitely bent on power and pushing a religious agenda. I'd like them to get more press, as publicity makes secretive dealings difficult.

I just caught where several of them were active in Uganda, beginning with the AIDS epidemic and continuing to persecution of homosexuals. Now there's a piece of legislation at work over there for the actual killing of homosexuals, and imprisonment for anyone having anything to do with homosexuality. I wonder how many more pies they have their fingers in that we don't know about yet?

To me, "they" often means something different from the government, but usually that, and it changes with whatever group is in power, whatever group is working behind the scenes for power/influnce, etc.

That's the simple answer, for me.

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Saturday, December 5, 2009 10:41 AM

OUT2THEBLACK

'For OpEdNews: Stephen Lendman - Writer

Will Congress Criminalize Anti-Semitism and Israeli Criticism? - By Stephen Lendman

In the current climate, perhaps given:

-- America's police state laws;

-- no due process or judicial fairness for any state target;

-- mass illegal surveillance;

-- targeting dissent; and

-- the power of the Israeli Lobby over Congress, the media, academia, the clergy, and most anyone confronting them.

During Israel's war on Gaza, only 5 of 535 congressional members dissented on pro-Israeli resolutions.

On January 8, 2009, the Senate unanimously passed S 10: "A resolution recognizing the right of Israel to defend itself against attacks from Gaza and reaffirming the United States' strong support for Israel in its battle with Hamas, and supporting the Israeli-Palestinian (no peace) peace process."

On January 9, the House, by a 390 - 5 vote, passed HR 34 "Recognizing Israel's right to defend itself against attacks from Gaza, reaffirming the United States' strong support for Israel, and supporting the Israeli-Palestinian (no peace) peace process." More on this below.

Then on October 28, Obama signed the expanded 2009 Hate Crimes Prevention Act, some call a stealth war on free expression and civil liberties. More on this as well.

Also consider events in Canada, initiated by a body called the Canadian Parliamentary Coalition to Combat Antisemitism (CPCCA), a voluntary association of 22 MPs investigating anti-semitism because, it says:

Its "extent and severity is widely regarded as at its worst level since the end of the Second World War," despite contrary evidence and much to show how Israel twists opposition to Zionism and its international law violations to be an attack on Jews.

On October 29, in fact, Reuters reported that:

"Anti-Semitic attitudes in the United States are at a historic low, with 12 percent of Americans prejudiced toward Jews, an Anti-Defamation League (ADL) survey found" based on polling done from September 26 - October 4 with a margin of error of plus or minus 2.8%.'

MORE :

http://www.opednews.com/articles/1/Will-Congress-Criminalize-by-Stephe
n-Lendman-091204-242.html

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Saturday, December 5, 2009 3:58 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Surprised Wulfie didn't put this up already...

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Saturday, December 5, 2009 6:44 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

After reading all this, there is only one conclusion

In Tyler Durden we trust

Time to start over..../.

Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists

Lets party like its 1939

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