REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

America. WITHOUT, the Bill of Rights. (And that pesky 2nd Amendment to back the rest up.)

POSTED BY: WULFENSTAR
UPDATED: Thursday, December 31, 2009 09:12
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 816
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Tuesday, December 29, 2009 10:30 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

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Tuesday, December 29, 2009 10:31 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg



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Tuesday, December 29, 2009 10:38 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


ahem

"Opponents say they are an undemocratic, draconian intrusion on civil liberties and human rights, and will enable officers to strip-search children and the disabled.

Mr Walshe said any police action would be justified and appropriate."

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Tuesday, December 29, 2009 10:59 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


I'm shocked. Normally you'd have to be in an airport in the U.S. to be subjected to that kind of treatment. :)

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Tuesday, December 29, 2009 8:26 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


what can I say - we're a police state.

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Tuesday, December 29, 2009 8:28 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
what can I say - we're a police state.



Oh, you're just saying that because the government ordered you to! ;)



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Tuesday, December 29, 2009 8:49 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


If I lived in Texas, I'd shoot you for that allegation - and then I'd be executed.

All would be well.

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Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:45 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
If I lived in Texas, I'd shoot you for that allegation - and then I'd be executed.

All would be well.



Hah - But I *DO* live in Texas, and as such, I'm legally allowed to shoot you first, just for being on my property! And I'd be acquitted.

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Wednesday, December 30, 2009 6:09 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh, my, does this make Australia facist now? Or is it socialist? or communist? or Nazi...shees, I just can't keep PN and Wulf's accusations straight. Too bad there isn't just one term for

Oh, wait, I forgot, for PN there is: "Jew". Tho' he finds so many imaginative different ways to say it, and if you took all those other awful things away, he wouldn't have nearly as much fun, would he? Bummer.

Okay, I guess we can write Australia off now...who's next?




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Wednesday, December 30, 2009 7:45 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Never made an accusation...

As always, I posted news and let the peanut gallery decide how to view it.

And, as always, you took the chance to snark me, and ignore what you saw. Nor, make any meaningful comment.


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Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:12 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I agree that you posted a worthwhile topic and received nothing but snarks. It's a problem to which you contribute. I have noticed and can't help wondering: why do you post several posts under a thread you start before anyone else replies? Is it to bring the thread to the top again in hopes of a response, or something else? Seriously just wondering.

That said, I'm willing to discuss the original issue, however my opinion is diametrically opposed to yours. I will merely quote a Canadian who commented on the article
Quote:
These laws are just common sense and will allow the police to simply do their job more effectively. I personally have no objection to being asked to move on or being subjected to the occassional search. If I was so drunk that I couldn't comply in an orderly fashion I can accept the consequences.
I know many will disagree with me and say that civil liberties should never be sacrificed no matter what, nonetheless that's my opinion and I stand by it.




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Wednesday, December 30, 2009 9:45 AM

HERO


Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
As always, I posted news and let the peanut gallery decide how to view it.

True.

I note for the record that I'm opposed to strip searching children or disabled persons without cause and Due Process with the limited exception of High School Varsity Cheerleaders (who look 18)....

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Wednesday, December 30, 2009 12:00 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Never made an accusation...

As always, I posted news and let the peanut gallery decide how to view it.

And, as always, you took the chance to snark me, and ignore what you saw. Nor, make any meaningful comment.



You're right. I suppose it would have been more timely and appropriate to link your article and then say,

"Suck it, gun nuts."



Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Wednesday, December 30, 2009 12:04 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


A bit more information about the laws.

Quote:

Under the new search laws, police will be able to declare designated areas for searches if they have a history of violence involving weapons, or they believe such an incident is about to take place.

They will be able to stop and search a person without a warrant in the areas, such as train stations or city blocks.

The areas will be designated for a 12-hour period only and, by law, must be advertised in a government gazette and newspaper seven days in advance.

Deputy Commissioner Kieran Walshe hopes to have the first designated areas in place early in the new year.

He said the increased powers were important because there had been a significant rise in weapons crime in the past year.

"Victoria Police statistics from 2008-09 show that robberies involving knives increased by 9.4 per cent in the last year. This is simply unacceptable," Mr Walshe said.


You might also note that the search for weapons is about knives, not guns, as they are the common hooligan weapon here. It's in response to a whole lot of knife attacks by gangs in areas where there is quite a bit of drunken partying going on. My guess it will be for New Year's Eve and other festivals like that, they'll create the zones to warn people off carrying knives in those areas.

And something on the opposing side from PILCH.

http://www.pilch.org.au/Page.aspx?ID=356

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Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:28 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


"You might also note that the search for weapons is about knives, not guns, as they are the common hooligan weapon here."

Uh-huh.

Cause they disarmed you guys a while back.

Hows that working out?

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Wednesday, December 30, 2009 5:07 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER



Actually no-one disarmed us., seeing as we never owned guns to the extent that the US population owns them - definitely rarely for personal security. A few years ago, the laws became more restrictive. You can still purchase weapons, but there are lots of limits.

The constant harping on about the right to own whatever weapons of destruction is an american issue, almost purely. People here are largely thankful that the population is NOT armed up to the teeth, and considering we live in a peaceful democracy with it's own army and police force, we don't really feel the need to be.

That being said, the idea of militia and no or little standing army, actually appeals to my sense of pacifism - that is, unless someone is actually attacking our land, in which case we can mobilise a trained population with access to weaponry, we keep our noses out of world affairs.

As for how it's working out, we have (like most other westernised countries) only a fraction of the gun deaths that you do, and despite the propaganda from the NRA the change in laws has had little impact on the murder or assault rate - because again, few people owned weapons for personal security. The people who protested were farmers and sports shooters - maybe they have had reason to feel aggreived. I wouldn't know. I don't know anyone who has ever owned a gun, or has been threatened by anyone with a gun, or know of anyone been victim of a crime using a gun.

So I guess I'd say it's working out fine.

Edited: Despite brief spike, (which the NRA gleefully makes use of) - homicide rates have been declining over several decades. What is on the increase is domestic violence, perhaps because of changes in police attitudes and laws which means it is more readily reported.

I've never really understood the paranoia of many American posters - either your country is way more violent than the one I live in, which is no utopia either I might add, or you have a large proportion of the population who feel under constant threat for not much more reason than they have been primed by movie and TV to expect a home invading serial killer to burst through the door and do henious things to themselves and their family.

The sad truth about crime in this country, is that most people who will be affected by violent crime will
1. Know the person who assaults them (often a family member or intimate partner)
2. Be a young male who will also have a history of violent assault on others.

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Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:17 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

The sad truth about crime in this country, is that most people who will be affected by violent crime will
1. Know the person who assaults them (often a family member or intimate partner)
2. Be a young male who will also have a history of violent assault on others.


Well, I think you've just wrapped up Wulfie in a nutshell! One assumes family violence is normal for him; after all, he DOES consider marriage to be warfare, as he himself has said. And he certainly seems to fit description as the prototypical young male with a hard-on for violence and assault on others.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Thursday, December 31, 2009 4:25 AM

HERO


Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
One assumes family violence is normal for him; after all, he DOES consider marriage to be warfare

Didn't Von Clausewitz call marriage a (sexual) politics by other means.

Getting married is just like going to war. You start out all excited expecting everything to quickly go your way but it soon becomes a horrific never ending struggle in the trenches. Couples will use every weapon in their arsenal: poison gas, secret alliances, propaganda, surprise attacks, and lawyers of mass destruction.
Quote:

And he certainly seems to fit description as the prototypical young male with a hard-on for violence and assault on others.

So he is typical of 98% of the male population between the ages of 12 and 68. The other 2% sing show tunes.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Thursday, December 31, 2009 4:28 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Yep, Kwixk...

I made a good (and current) point, about how quickly a country can turn into a police state (especially when the people can do nothing to fight back), and all you knuckleheads can do is crack-wise.

Why don't you guys try arguing the topic?

Or...

Oh, I get it.

When I punch a huge hole in your arguments, your belief structure... hell, lets be honest, YOUR FANTASIES, about life... you can't hack it.

You can't stand it, so you lash out and try desperately to divert attention away from the points I (or others) are making. By either thread-jacking, or making sadly mistaken personal attacks.

Its interesting, because several of you do that.

In any case, its something to consider when Im dealing with the more brain-washed, or "re-educated", around here.




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Thursday, December 31, 2009 9:12 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Thank you, Magon, I'd heard the same from several Aussie friends, but it's mostly not worth mentioning here, because all it does is bring a fight. Yes, we are all the things you've mentioned, but all it takes is a glance at our entertainment to discern where minds are at and part of how they came to be that way.

Wulf, your "reply" is pathetic. But typical, unfortunately. Magon answered your "how's that working for you?" question at length and with clarity...so you respond with some inanities which have no bearing on anything here:
Quote:
When I punch a huge hole in your arguments, your belief structure... hell, lets be honest, YOUR FANTASIES, about life... you can't hack it.

You can't stand it, so you lash out and try desperately to divert attention away from the points I (or others) are making. By either thread-jacking, or making sadly mistaken personal attacks.

Its interesting, because several of you do that.

In any case, its something to consider when Im dealing with the more brain-washed, or "re-educated", around here.
No, actually. You got snarks, because your posts and remarks are predictable and you've built up a lot of ill-will here, added to the fact that some have learned not to take you seriously. ONLY Mike continued snarking, the rest of us DID address the subject.

Conveniently, you didn't respond to the on-point responses, but lashed back with a lot of bullshit having nothing to do with what anyone said from the minute we began discussing the issue. That's a perfect example of why people view your posts as something to snark about...your responses are pretty predictable to any serious discussion of issues, and go off on a tangent. It's kind of like a child, faced with arguments he can't counter and doesn't like, sticking his tongue out and saying "I hate you!" then running off.

You punched no holes in anyone's arguments or belief structures; you were the only one to divert attention from the issue aside from Mike (who always snarks, so what's new there?); and by doing so make it appear that it's you who can't hack it. All this merely reinforces the opinions of some of us that you have no desire to debate or discuss, only hurl invectives and spew your violence-induced opinions. If anyone here is brainwashed, it's you; your responses are virtually always "be violent!" There's an explanation for why you are treated as you are, if you want it.

Oh, dear, "Hero":
Quote:
Getting married is just like going to war. You start out all excited expecting everything to quickly go your way but it soon becomes a horrific never ending struggle in the trenches. Couples will use every weapon in their arsenal: poison gas, secret alliances, propaganda, surprise attacks, and lawyers of mass destruction.
You have my deepest sympathy! You appear to have had the same experiences Wulf has, which is awful, especially in how it's clouded your vision of marriage.

The truth is, when we aren't stable or "healthy" emotionally, we attract and are attracted to unhealthy people; the healthier we get, the more we are attracted to and attractive to healthy people. That's a fact, and I've seen it happen over and over. So what both of you have experienced is an outgrowth of your own personalities, and sadly will never be better unless you grow beyond who you are now.

My husband I weren't "healthy" when we got together. I was immature and very needy; he was closed off and stuck in his family dynamic. So the first twenty years of our being together (we didn't 'marry' until we'd been together ten of them) weren't healthy. Still, there was nothing like "poison gas, secret alliances, propaganda, surprise attacks, and lawyers of mass destruction".

Something happened that gave both of us the opportunity to "wake up" to the ways we were communicating that were bad. We had also both grown in the meantime, but had been still stuck in bad habits. The last 10+ years have been heaven, literally, I couldn't have had it so good with anyone else, and he feels the same. If we had split up, I'd have gone on attracting the same kind of unhealthy people. Instead, we both grew. It was worth enduring the first twenty to get here; but we got here because we hung on through the bad times, worked on it and met each other half way.

What you described and Wulf believes are so incredibly sad and doom you to bad relationships forever, unless you try to become self-aware and grow. The very first step would be to realize that not all marriages, or even the majority of them, are as you believe. If that were possible, it would be a start.



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