REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

OSAMA 10. THE US: 0.

POSTED BY: GINOBIFFARONI
UPDATED: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 13:47
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Tuesday, January 12, 2010 12:23 AM

GINOBIFFARONI


OSAMA 10. THE US: 0.
January 11, 2010
To better understand why Osama bin Laden is so far winning his struggle to oust the western powers from the Muslim world, let us go back to 1986, when I was covering the anti-Soviet war in then almost unknown Afghanistan.
I called on the grandly titled “Afghan Information Center” in Peshawar, Pakistan. Peshawar was a wild and dangerous place. I called it, “Dodge City meets the Arabian Nights” in my book on Afghanistan, `War at the Top of the World.”

The information center turned out to be a drab little office filled with mimeographed pamphlets and piles of dusty books.

The director was a short, thin man in a torn sweater named Abdullah Azzam. We spoke at length of the anti-Soviet jihad (struggle) in Afghanistan being waged by Afghan and Arab mujahidin.

Then, Azzam told me, `when we have driven the Communist imperialists from Afghanistan, we will go on and drive the American imperialists from Arabia and the rest of the Muslim world.’

I was absolutely floored. Except for Communists, a notorious bunch of liars, I had never heard anyone call my beloved America an imperialist power. In those days, the US appeared the acme of good – in large part because its rival, the Soviet Union, looked so wicked.

But after the USSR collapsed, absolute power absolutely corrupted Washington’s ruling circles and drove them to seek “full spectrum domination” of the globe and its energy resources rather than a cooperative new world order.

Sheik Abdullah Azzam was the teacher and spiritual mentor of a young Saudi named Osama bin Laden. Azzam gave bin Laden the blueprint for his later war against the west.

Azzam was murdered in 1989, likely by a western intelligence service. His pupil, Osama, launched a seemingly Quixotic mission to overthrow the western-backed dictatorships and monarchies that misruled the Muslim world, and drive western power from the region.

Bin Laden proclaimed his grand strategy in the 1990’s. He would oust the modern `Crusaders’ by luring the US and its allies into a series of small, debilitating, hugely expensive wars to bleed and slowly bankrupt the US economy, which he called America’s Achilles’ heel.

Bloody attacks would enrage the US and lure it into one quagmire after another.

Bin Laden was dismissed by western intelligence as a crackpot and “enragé.”

But both the dim-witted President Gorge W. Bush and the intelligent President Barack Obama fell right into Osama’s carefully-laid trap.

Today, Osama’s words haunt us as we witness hysteria and chaos engulf America’s air travel system, the war party in Washington demands the US invade Yemen, and the drums beat for war against Iran.

US airport security officials will be even more panicked when they learn a jihadist recently tried to assassinate Saudi Arabia’s interior minister, Prince Nayef, by detonating a bomb secreted in his rectum. Will we soon bend and spread for security– just like in prisons?

The American colossus continues to stumble ever deeper into the Muslim world’s violent, tangled affairs at a time when Washington is bankrupt and only runs on Chinese loans. In 2009, the US deficit was US $1.4 trillion. But Washington managed to spend $200 billion on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan by loading the costs onto the national credit card.

American soldiers are fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq. US Special Forces, air units and CIA mercenaries are involved in combat operations in Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, West Africa, North Africa and the Philippines. A new US base at Djibouti is launching raids into Yemen, Somalia and northern Kenya. US forces aided the failed Ethiopian invasion of Somalia in 2006. New US bases are planned in oil-producing West Africa and also in Colombia.

The Red Sea littoral is America’s next major headache. Somalia’s anti-western Shebab movement controls much of that nation’s south and center. Yemen is a hotbed of jihadist activity that increasingly threatens neighboring Saudi Arabia, a vital American ally. Somali pirates could turn from plunder to striking at other western interests.

As soon as the US or its satraps crush one anti-western jihadist group, another springs up somewhere else.

Washington is quietly engineering the breakup of troubled Sudan, Africa’s largest nation, in order to dominate South Sudan’s important oil resources and undermine the regime in Khartoum which Washington has marked for termination.

Even Egypt is growing shaky. The US-backed Mubarak military dictatorship that has ruled the Arab world’s most populous nation with an iron hand since 1981 faces a succession struggle once the 82-year old pharaoh is gone.

Al-Qaida is no longer the tiny organization founded by Osama bin Laden that never numbered more than 300 hard core members. It has morphed into a worldwide movement of like-minded but independent, revolutionary, anti-American groups that share Osama’s militant philosophy. This is precisely the kind of `asymmetrical warfare’ the Pentagon has so long feared.

Ominously, a 2006 World Public Opinion poll showed large majorities in four leading Muslim nations that are key US allies, Egypt, Morocco, Pakistan and Indonesia (a third of the Muslim world’s population), believe the US is determined to destroy or undermine Islam. They support attacks on American targets. This was an ominous warning for the United States.

Remember all the claims by the Bush administration that Osama bin Laden was on the run, or out of business? He is still very much in business, and so far making his western enemies look foolish and bumbling.

http://www.ericmargolis.com/political_commentaries/osama--the-us-.aspx


I always thought China to be the big winner in all this, but these comments on another board give me pause


PaulW
Monday, January 11, 2010 11:11 PM
I don't see how the Chinese come out of this as a super power. it is nice to think such a thing as "poetic justice" exists and to actually witness it happening - like the US being replaced as the super power - but I'm not optimistic we will have a nice, neat poetic justice type ending to all this. It's more likely to be awfully messy, like when Israel goes they take the entire region out in a nuclear holocaust.

Let's be honest, back in the 1990s the Chinese made some very bad investment decisions. They bet the house on the global economy and that stake doesn't look so wise now. They're also deeply into US treasury bonds which, for all we know, may be totally worthless. To me, China looks like the last big investor in a pyramid scheme who must keep throwing more into the pyramid to keep it from collapsing. When it collapses China loses its entire investment.

Given what they've done in Iraq, it would be poetic justice to see America turn into the same kind of chaotically violent country. Yet unless the Chinese can create a domestic market to replace the US consumer, China seems more likely to face internal troubles first.
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Hoffman
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 1:09 AM
I like your analogy with China's position like the last investor in a ponzi scheme, dont 100% agree, but there is some validity. And China won't emerge all of a sudden as the new super power. Won't be so simple, won't happen so fast. China's move to becoming a bonafide superpower, will be more like a slow drifting process, taking decades, but it is inevitable. They are still a developing country and while the big cities may give the impression of a modern state, it is more of, the hardware is in place, but the software still has some way to catch up. Even if China were to lose all its investments in US bonds, it would not be enough to bring the system down. There are still going to be consumers in the world and that is what is most important (and 1.4 billion are there own, where some markets are rivalling the exports), so it wasnt , and won't be a bad choice to bet on global economics. And most importantly, the Chinese govt basically owns everything in the country, especially land and about 40-50 % of economy still comes from SOEs. And the value of these assets is increasing by the billions everyday. There is enough there to pull her out of financial problems, many times over for many, many decades. The govt routinely sells off user rights of land to private hands, raising billions and billions whenever needed, and the supply is seemingly endless.
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Some of the economic nuances are over my head but, but interesting



Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

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Tuesday, January 12, 2010 3:45 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Fascinating and scary for those of us that are fans of US.

Saw this the other day which seems to only underscore your article:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8450434.stm

"China's exports rose 17.7% in December, state media have reported, suggesting the country has overtaken Germany as the world's largest exporter."

First: who knew Germany was the largest? Didn't see that one.

Second: Numbers must have a holiday inflation, right? I mean, 17% rise???

China - imho we've been in denial for way too long on China, feeling safe in the assumption that they were a semi-backward country with a government that we assumed only wanted to keep it's people repressed and 50 years in the past. That's certainly not been true for a good many years. So while we obsess over arguing amongst ourselves they've been moving in one direction - they look to be very focused now on wanting to be a Super Power. When a country has a new openness toward even The Arts for f*ck sake, you know something's up.
And since they aren't *saddled* with free speech like we are there seem to be almost no impediments to achieving their goals other than time and money.

I don't know a lot about Thomas Friedman, but I do know that every time he speaks I listen.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/10/opinion/10friedman.html

"Being in China right now I am more convinced than ever that when historians look back at the end of the first decade of the 21st century, they will say that the most important thing to happen was not the Great Recession, but China’s Green Leap Forward. The Beijing leadership clearly understands that the E.T. — Energy Technology — revolution is both a necessity and an opportunity, and they do not intend to miss it.

We, by contrast, intend to fix Afghanistan. Have a nice day."

I love that last bit. Ok, you're a Super Power. You can do ANYTHING you want to. ANYTHING. Like having 3 magic wishes... so what do you want to do?

"We want to go fix Afghanistan."

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Tuesday, January 12, 2010 5:08 AM

BYTEMITE


Um. I'm not sure if you know this, Pizmo, but The Great Leap Forward does not refer to China's current growing dominance of global exports and their economic powerhouse. I'm not sure that The Great Leap Forward could be considered a good thing for the Chinese government, it's kind of considered Chairman Mao's biggest mistake (he retired from the spotlight shortly after people realized just how seriously wrong it went). And it DEFINITELY wasn't good for the Chinese people.

As a comparison, I'm pretty sure that when Japan industrialized, they didn't institute a program of systematic starvation and working their own people to death. Even Stalin's Great Purge didn't kill as many Russians as The Great Leap Forward killed Chinese. Even more bizarrely, the program wasn't intentionally malicious, it was just plain stupid. Hey, let's force all these farmers to abandon their farms for a few years to build an industrialized economic infrastructure! Oh wait, now no one's producing any food. Oops.

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Tuesday, January 12, 2010 5:19 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


It's GREEN Leap Forward Byte - not "Great."
A play on the name of the other period so easy to miss.

From the article:

"C. H. Tung, the first Chinese-appointed chief executive of Hong Kong after the handover in 1997, offered me a three-sentence summary the other day of China’s modern economic history: “China was asleep during the Industrial Revolution. She was just waking during the Information Technology Revolution. She intends to participate fully in the Green Revolution.”"

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Tuesday, January 12, 2010 6:25 AM

BYTEMITE


Ohhhh.

...That's... Kinda ominous sounding, isn't it? I can only hope that the name of the policy in Chinese doesn't recall that old failure.

Here, I found something about both the export jump we saw and also some current issues China is having going green. Not surprising: powerplants in the middle of nowhere that don't feed anything, empty cities, etc. I mean, you can't fault the zeal and enthusiasm of the bureaucrats in charge over there, but for practicality, I can't say they have the best track record.

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=49565

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Tuesday, January 12, 2010 6:40 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

I love that last bit. Ok, you're a Super Power. You can do ANYTHING you want to. ANYTHING. Like having 3 magic wishes... so what do you want to do?

"We want to go fix Afghanistan."


Only we'll spend all three wishes on it. "We want to go fix Afghanistan." Done - here's Hamid Karzai. "Okay, now we want to go FIX Afghanistan." Done - here's "election reforms". "Okay, NOW WE *REALLY* WANT TO GO FIX AFGHANISTAN."


It never occurred to us to ask the Afghan people if they WANT to be "fixed"...

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Tuesday, January 12, 2010 6:43 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

As a comparison, I'm pretty sure that when Japan industrialized, they didn't institute a program of systematic starvation and working their own people to death.


By the way, Byte, when Japan industrialized, they had a distinct tendency to use systematic starvation and slave labor, but they tended to use the Chinese and Koreans, instead of their own people. But don't imagine for a moment that they didn't use those tactics. Hell, who HASN'T used those methods in their march toward progress? ;)

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Tuesday, January 12, 2010 6:54 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


On your initial thread, Gino: Right on. It's an excellent piece and, as far as I'm concerned, absolutely right...something our "representatives" and government seem completel blind to and which was the stated intent from the very beginning. Gawd, they can be stupid!! And conceited, to think the way they do!

I didn't read the comments, too long, but I fully agree with the initial article.



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Tuesday, January 12, 2010 6:54 AM

BYTEMITE


Maybe... I'd have to do research, but I think that depends on the answer to the question of "When was Japan industrialized," because I remember them kicking the pants off of Russia in 1905 and shocking the world, which then promptly forgot about it. Except for Hitler. I'm pretty sure Hitler was hoping Japan would distract Russia again, which is why he even made that nonsensical seeming alliance. It also makes sense considering DT's theory about the swastika and India, Hitler was hoping to pull in "allies" to distract all his major opponents in some way. Luckily most of them fell through.

The Last Samurai may have been utter crap as a movie, but I think the Emperor's interest in industrializing after the Meiji Restoration was accurately depicted. Did they have Chinese and Korean slaves at that time?

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Tuesday, January 12, 2010 7:27 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Byte - You are so busted as DreamTrove.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Tuesday, January 12, 2010 7:59 AM

BYTEMITE


We talked for like six months straight over e-mail. I used to think Aryan was a German superiority complex too, but the etymology of the word says otherwise, and pretty much implies what DT was claiming.

You also won't find DT ever saying that women should have careers, and it should be their choice to have children or not. But I do agree with him on a lot of things.

EDIT: When I came here December almost a year ago, I wondered if I was superfluous. You guys already had DT, Frem, and HK. Good to know that I'm as insignificant as I figured.

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Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:00 AM

BYTEMITE


I also honestly don't know if Japan had Korean and Chinese slaves between the Meiji Restoration and 1905. I couldn't find anything on wikipedia about it, though I know in WW2 they did a lot of bad bad things to China and Korea. Seems to me that's probably when they might have acquired slaves. Spoils of war and all that junk.

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Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:34 AM

GINOBIFFARONI


They occupied Korea in 1905 if that helps

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_under_Japanese_rule

They did force trade agreements on them earlier

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Ganghwa





Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

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Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:04 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

EDIT: When I came here December almost a year ago, I wondered if I was superfluous. You guys already had DT, Frem, and HK. Good to know that I'm as insignificant as I figured.


WRONG! Like Frem, DT, and HKC, you and I don't always agree, but that hardly makes your point of view insignificant or unnecessary.

When I spoke of Japan industrializing, I was thinking specifically of their expansionist "empire" period leading into WWII, where they became a major world power. It's probably wrong to assume that that period was their "industrialization" period; it was just the period of their greatest growth and influence on the area.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:34 AM

BYTEMITE


Yeah, and I don't doubt that between the Meiji reformation and whenever we can call the Japanese Industrialized that they didn't have an imperialistic mindset (the restoration was about restoring the emperor). And an imperialist mindset usually involves arrogance, nationalism, oftentimes some racism, and generally an authoritarian point of view regarding other people as "The Other," non-humans to be used as tools or exterminated as pests. So I don't doubt that the Japanese DID use the Koreans or the Chinese, I'm just trying to nail down the time frame.

In fact, there's actually some sour relationships between Japan and China right now because of this history. The Japanese are ashamed of what they did, but culturally this shame manifests in them not talking about it, which the Chinese see as them not being willing to openly admit or acknowledge what they did. The Japanese do, it's just, it's different.

Although there's been a recent upsurge in Japanese nationalists who have taken the stance of non-apology, and that kinda doesn't help matters. I expect this is some of the North Korea nuclear issue where Japan is an obvious target in range, and why China hasn't really stepped in. I don't think we'll ever get to quite the tension between China and Japan that we have right now between China and the US, simply because of how the Japanese feel about this, but there's always a possibility.

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Tuesday, January 12, 2010 10:07 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
We talked for like six months straight over e-mail. I used to think Aryan was a German superiority complex too, but the etymology of the word says otherwise, and pretty much implies what DT was claiming.

You also won't find DT ever saying that women should have careers, and it should be their choice to have children or not. But I do agree with him on a lot of things.

EDIT: When I came here December almost a year ago, I wondered if I was superfluous. You guys already had DT, Frem, and HK. Good to know that I'm as insignificant as I figured.


DT has posted interest in sock puppets in the past, and you both have a rare gift for what I consider pretty obscure history with a facility for remembering details (I can't remember what I had for breakfast... did I have breakfast?). There are other similarities... glad you were able to connect with him for 6 months. See, not superflous.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:08 AM

BYTEMITE


Gino, that does make sense. Thanks.

Pizmo: I'm really not that interested in sock puppets. If someone wants an imaginary friend/yes man to bolster up their arguments, or if they screwed the pooch and need to start over as someone anonymous, then that's their business.

Oh, DT and I both got memory problems, but he thinks his came from drugs and that it ruined his previously photographic memory. I'm pretty sure mine's a congenital defect. About all I'm good at remembering is bits of trivia without context. Like, for the above, I knew Japan defeated Russia at some point before WW2, but I had to check wikipedia for the year (I edited that in). And I also remembered seeing a book once called the Rape of Nanching and reading the back cover, so I knew Japan did some crap to China. And I knew about the Meiji Restoration because I've watched anime (Kenshin in particular) and taken Japanese courses in highschool and college. I can remember a lot of vague disconnected stuff, but not details. It's why you don't usually see me making cites, because I never remember who or what my references were.

I also know very little in regards to facts. See the recent "Wifely Duties" thread where I got into a debate with Rue and Sig for proof.

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Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:19 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Eric Margolis is a CIA agent who lives in every warzone, including traveling with CIA's Al Qaeda and USAma Bin Laden to attack the Ruskies in the First Afghan War. Now he's lying his a$$ off hyping a non-existant AllCIAduh and dead USAma. Jew?



"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming."
—Dick Cheney, "Interview of the Vice President by Tony Snow", March 29, 2006
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/03/20060329-2.html

Afghan Prime Minister: No Afghan Involved In 9/11 Attacks
http://news.ino.com/headlines/?newsid=100720090301

"I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks.”
—Usama bin Laden, CNN, "Bin Laden says he wasn't behind attacks," September 17, 2001
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/obl_int.htm

"I have already said that I am not involved in the September 11 attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other human beings as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. According to my information, the death toll is much higher than what the U.S. Government has stated. But the Bush Administration does not want the panic to spread. The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; the people who are a part of the U.S. system, but are dissenting against it. Or those who are working for some other system; persons who want to make the present century as a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity so that their own civilization, nation, country, or ideology could survive. They can be anyone, from Russia to Israel and from India to Serbia. In the U.S. itself, there are dozens of well-organized and well-equipped groups, which are capable of causing a large-scale destruction. Then you cannot forget the American-Jews, who are annoyed with President Bush ever since the elections in Florida and want to avenge him. This system is totally in the control of the American Jews, whose first priority is Israel, not the United States. It is clear that the American people are themselves the slaves of the Jews and are forced to live according to the principles and laws laid down by them."
-Usama Bin Laden, Ummat magazine, September 28, 2001
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/obl_int.htm

Usama Bin Laden's funeral: Egyptian Paper Al-Wafd, Wednesday, December 26, 2001
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/osama_dead.html

"He also had dealings with Omar Sheikh [MI6 born in Britain], the man who murdered Usama Bin Laden."
-Pakistani prime minister Benazir Bhutto (assassinated 6 weeks later), BBC interview by Sir David Frost Knight of the British Empire, 2nd November 2007
youtube.com/watch?v=oIO8B6fpFSQ
http://www.iraq-war.ru/article/151951
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/dec/28/pakistan.topstories33

"Former FBI translator Sibel Edmonds dropped a bombshell on the Mike Malloy radio show, guest-hosted by Brad Friedman. In the interview, Sibel says that the US maintained ‘intimate relations’ with Bin Laden, and the Taliban, 'all the way until that day of September 11'.”
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=39376&m=719308#719308

QUESTION: "Mr President, in your speeches, you rarely mention Osama Bin Laden. Why is that?"
GEORGE BUSH JR: "I don't know where he is. I just don't spend that much time on him."
.youtube.com/watch?v=ztKKuB2nJa0

"9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page. He has not been formally indicted and charged in connection with 9/11 because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.”
—FBI agent Rex Tomb, June 6, 2006
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm

"The goal has never been to get Bin Laden."
—General Richard Myers, chairman, US Joint Chiefs of Staff
http://www.myspace.com/911pressfortruth

Obama & Bush Warn: Don't Question 9/11 Conspiracy Theory
youtube.com/watch?v=o16nB2zb3nA



"The Israeli Defense Force is a 500-pound gorilla in Israel. Known to disregard international law to accomplish mission. Very unlikely to fire on American forces [except for USS Liberty then blamed Egypt]. Fratricide a concern especially in air space management. MOSSAD: Wildcard. Ruthless and cunning. Has capability to target US forces and make it look like a Palestinian/Arab act."
-Jedi Knights, SAMS US Army School of Advanced Military Studies, Rowan Scarborough, Washington Times, "U.S. troops would enforce peace under Army study," 10 September 2001
http://www.public-action.com/911/sams.html
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/911timeline/2001/washingtontimes091
001.html
www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=uss+liberty
http://www.gtr5.com

"The FBI has issued a BOLO on suspected terrorists driving a white delivery van from New York City to the Mexican border. The suspects are using Israeli passports. They are armed and dangerous."
-Knox County TN Emergency 911 Dispatch, Sept 11, 2001, 11am EST
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0622-05.htm

"Vehicle possibly related to New York terrorist attack. White, 2000 Chevrolet van with New Jersey registration with 'Urban Moving Systems' sign on back seen at Liberty State Park, Jersey City, NJ, at the time of first impact of jetliner into World Trade Center. Three individuals with van were seen celebrating after initial impact and subsequent explosion. FBI Newark Field Office requests that, if the van is located, hold for prints and detain individuals."
-FBI BOLO ("Be On Lookout"), 11 September 2001, 3:31 p.m., according to Bergen County Police Chief John Schmidig
http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/01/12/WTC_Mysteries3.html
http://columbus.indymedia.org/node/13067


The first terrorist bombers arrested in USA on 9/11/2001 were Israeli Mossad says Fox News. There were over 500 of them, infiltrating US military bases and all police agencies. They were dressed as Muslims, "dancing in happiness" while watching and videotaping the World Trade Center explode. Despite FBI finding residue of explosives in their van, none of the Israelis were tortured to confess at Gitmo, and all were allowed to leave USA by Israeli US DOJ prosecutor Michael Chertoff who was then promoted to director US Dept of Homeland Security.



http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,34250,00.html
www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/fiveisraelis.html
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20065.htm
http://www.real-debt-elimination.com/real_freedom/Propaganda/employer_
of_the_dancing_israelis.htm

14 Israeli "art students" were living in World Trade Center Towers with forged Construction Passes, connection to Mossad spy ring infiltrating every US military base and police agency in USA, arrested and deported from USA after 9/11/2001:
http://www.rense.com/general87/14_1.htm



Israel police 'arrest Mossad spy on training exercise' planting car bomb
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8377746.stm

2 Israeli Mossad agents were arrested with explosive residue in their white truck in Erwin TN nuke plant.
http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=7238

Israel stole 400 nukes from USA incl ORNL. Now Israel runs security for all nuke factories in USA.
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke/farr.htm
http://www.arguewitheveryone.com/holocaust/63089-u-s-nuclear-weapons-b
eing-guarded-israel-can-you-believe.html

"Intelligence chatter from two agencies, Israel Mossad and one other, discussed their desire to nuke nine US cities in 2009, 'to teach America a lesson'. Within days of our broadcasts, Newsmax came out with a story saying the same thing, but blaming AllCIAduh, er, Al Qaeda."
-Dr. Cass Ingram, The Power Hour radio show, 1470 am Alcoa TN, 3 Feb 2009

Nuclear Attacks on 7 U.S. Cities in 2009: New York, Washington, D.C., Las Vegas, Miami, Boston, Houston, and Los Angeles, says Bush PR firm Newsmax
http://w3.newsmax.com/a/dayofislam/

"I'd make a great terrorist."
-Mark Loizeaux, owner of Controlled Demolition Inc, paid a $3-billion contract to "demolish" the World Trade Center "after" 9/11, bomber of 7,000 government buildings, graduate University of Tennessee Knoxville, BBC's The Third Tower (google it), GO VOLS!

Obama's White House chief of staff is an Israeli citizen and Israeli soldier who cannot get a security clearance, yet has access to US Top Secrets. He introduced Monica to Bill Clinton Blythe III (trillionaire Arkansas governor Winthrop Rockefeller's bast$$d son).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahm_Emanuel

"By way of deception, we shall wage war."
-Mossad motto

"'We are benefiting from one thing, and that is the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq,' Ma'ariv quoted the former prime minister as saying. He reportedly added that these events 'swung American public opinion in our favor.'"
-Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Haaretz, Netanyahu says 9/11 terror attacks good for Israel, 16 April 2008
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/975574.html


FBI will pay you $1-million to arrest American Jewish ADL AllCIAduh spokesman Adam Gadahn Perlman

American al Qaeda member Adam Gadahn Perlman acknowledges Jewish ancestry
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/06/13/american.qaeda.message/index
.html

"The FBI added Adam Gadahn to the Most Wanted Terrorist list and the U.S. State Department is offering a reward up to $1 million for his arrest. A 28-year-old California man has been indicted on federal charges of treason and providing material support to a terrorist group for making a series of propaganda videotapes for al Qaeda, including one in which he praised the hijackers involved in the 9/11 attacks. 'Adam Gadahn represents a new breed of home-grown extremist, who has chosen to betray the country of his birth,' FBI Executive Assistant Director Willie Hulon said during a press conference Wednesday in Washington, D.C."
-FBI Most Wanted
http://www.fbi.gov/page2/oct2006/gadahn101106.htm

"In Sept of last year, Adam Gadahn [aka Adam Perlman], the son of Jewish parents, the son of Jewish grandparents [who are on the board of directors of Jewish ADL] in Southern California, who himself converted to Islam, went on to become Osama Bin Laden's spokesman."
-Congresswoman Jane Harman (D-CA), Jewish chairman
Homeland Security Subcommittee on Intelligence, Information Sharing, and Terrorism Risk Assessment
CSPAN, Use of the Internet by Terrorists: Using the Web as a Weapon for 9/11 Truth, November 6, 2007
http://www.piratenews.org/flight93.html

Jew Rep Harman Caught on NSA Tape Agreeing to Lobby for Israel Spies = TREASON
www.republicbroadcasting.org/?p=1364
youtube.com/watch?v=JWpWc_suPWo


www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=14&t=40268

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Tuesday, January 12, 2010 12:26 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"I'd have to do research, but I think that depends on the answer to the question of "When was Japan industrialized ..."

Most people would consider that Japan became an industrial power after WWII. They actually DID starve people and worked them to death mainly minorities living in Japan at the time. (Unfortunatley this reference was PBS show, so I have no source to cite.)

Also, you are too young to remember 'cheap Japanese junk' - but in the 50s and early 60s Japan was flooding the US market with cheap transistor radios and other goods of that type (kind of like China today). They were able to sell so cheaply by having an underclass of worker working ungodly hours for extremely low pay. I THINK the source of that is the book 'Blowback'.

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Tuesday, January 12, 2010 12:27 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


OSAMA 10. THE US: 0.


The US seems to be like the stupid bull charging the cape. You kinda want to go DUH !

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Tuesday, January 12, 2010 1:01 PM

BYTEMITE


>_>

I dunno, Rue, Japan had a pretty industrialized military by WW2. I think the idea that Americans had such a huge impact on reforming them afterwards is a popular myth.

Quote:
Also, you are too young to remember 'cheap Japanese junk' - but in the 50s and early 60s Japan was flooding the US market with cheap transistor radios and other goods of that type (kind of like China today). They were able to sell so cheaply by having an underclass of worker working ungodly hours for extremely low pay. I THINK the source of that is the book 'Blowback'.


This, however, is true. There's a joke about it in Back to the Future (which is another of the very FEW movies that have influenced me).

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Tuesday, January 12, 2010 1:05 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"Japan had a pretty industrialized military by WW2 ..."

I'm not saying that Japan was pre-industrial prior to WWII. I guess they were in a stage similar to the US early in the Industrial Revolution - having heavy industry but still having an economy that was largely agrarian. It wasn't until after WWII that Japan came to be a major WORLD player industrially-speaking.

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Tuesday, January 12, 2010 1:07 PM

BYTEMITE


Ah. Thanks for the clarification, this seems consistent with what I'm familiar with.

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Tuesday, January 12, 2010 1:08 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


And happy new year to you !

Yeah - what does that have to do with anything ?

Maybe I'll start a new thread !

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Tuesday, January 12, 2010 1:58 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"Japan had a pretty industrialized military by WW2 ..."

I'm not saying that Japan was pre-industrial prior to WWII. I guess they were in a stage similar to the US early in the Industrial Revolution - having heavy industry but still having an economy that was largely agrarian. It wasn't until after WWII that Japan came to be a major WORLD player industrially-speaking.

***************************************************************

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Well, in the interest of full disclosure, that's pretty much when the U.S. made the same move.

For comparison's sake, Japan had one of the largest navies in the world at the outbreak of WWII, third only behind the U.S. and Great Britain, and far ahead of Germany or anyone else. And they had THE largest aircraft carrier force in the world.

Also, they had an amazingly modern air force, much of which centered around the Mitsubishi A6M "Zero" long-range fighter, which in the early stages of the war, had no equal among Allied aircraft.

As for how the U.S. helped Japan become a major world power... Well, when you don't have to maintain a military force to take on the rest of the world, you tend to have rather more time, energy, and resources to put toward actual USEFUL industry. ;)


It seems once again most of us are on the same page here, just looking from slightly different angles and seeing the same thing in a little bit different light.

Now, back to Osama.

Gino: Awesome article. I'm only mad because I didn't write it, but it perfectly sums up things that have been bugging me lately.

We've been so determined to "beat" Al Qaeda and Osama that we've completely lost focus, and we've also completely missed the entire point that we're now playing HIS game, HIS way, by HIS rules. And we're calling it a "win".

Now, if we can delude ourselves in that way, why can't we just pack up and walk out of Afghanistan and call THAT a "win"?

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Tuesday, January 12, 2010 2:49 PM

KIRKULES


Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:

I think the idea that Americans had such a huge impact on reforming them afterwards is a popular myth.


You may be correct about the impact of America in general on Japanese industry after the war, but one American did have a very big effect on Japanese manufacturing quality and gave them systems that US manufacturers did'nt begin to adoped till the 1980's. Adopting Deming's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming quality control/improvment methods gave the Japanese a huge head start on the rest of the world.

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Tuesday, January 12, 2010 2:58 PM

BYTEMITE


More pieces to the puzzle. Thanks.

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Wednesday, January 13, 2010 1:36 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:


Now, back to Osama.

Gino: Awesome article. I'm only mad because I didn't write it, but it perfectly sums up things that have been bugging me lately.

We've been so determined to "beat" Al Qaeda and Osama that we've completely lost focus, and we've also completely missed the entire point that we're now playing HIS game, HIS way, by HIS rules. And we're calling it a "win".

Now, if we can delude ourselves in that way, why can't we just pack up and walk out of Afghanistan and call THAT a "win"?

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde


In Margolis's book, he thinks there can be some negotiated way out of Afghanistan... but that would involve allowing the Taliban an equal or better footing with the Karzai folks which I really doubt would work.

So to pull out would allow Afghanistan to fall into a civil war, with one of the sides opposing the US right now to come out on top... I think thats a given

Then, I think the government in Pakistan will fall, either a coup or through judicial means their time is done ( likely whether or not the US stays )
Following this change, it is highly possible a revolution by a pro Islamic ( there by anti US ) group could occur there within 2-3 years. Islamic fighters free from Afghanistan would definitely take part.

Iran will likely take a dim view of a state run by sunni militants, ( especially Wahabi Salafists ) and may try to step up and support one or more factions to prevent this.

Iraq, emboldened by loss of US face in Afghanistan, will break out in a new wave of fighting... US bases will be targets, particularly after they step in to back crumbling local forces.

Egypt, facing its own succession crisis could be facing serious problems as well

in other words.....

To head off these problems, a whole new way of thinking these things through will be needed



Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

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Wednesday, January 13, 2010 1:47 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:
EDIT: When I came here December almost a year ago, I wondered if I was superfluous. You guys already had DT, Frem, and HK. Good to know that I'm as insignificant as I figured.
Not by me, you're not...just sayin'.



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