The Mindbenders and how they do it. by Fremdfirma

Quote:
Originally posted by Littlebird:
Magonsdaughter

I had been talking to Frem on another Thread about the mind control issue. I mentioned I would like to see a thread on the topic of mind control because maybe there were others lurking on the list like me who had been in Bluebird but were terrified to speak out. Just let them know they are not alone and people do care and offer some healing solutions.

We were talking about the "don't tell" programming and Frem said he had some more thoughts on the subject he wanted to share.

Yes, these were American projects. I don't think they extended to other countries.

Please forgive me if I missed your point or didn't address the question you were really asking. I have some brain damage and tend to miss things.

But that is my understanding of why he started this thread.

Thanks Littlebird. Probably explains why I felt like I entered into the middle of a conversation - because I did.

Frem, I still have a bit of issue with the way you've lumped a lot of disparate research in together, branded it all as a bit of a failure and then linked it to the highly unethical practices of groups within our society. As they say, knowledge is a dangerous thing. Because research has been used unethically is really not the fault of the research.

Darwinism was linked to the Final Solution, but it's doesn't take away from his findings on evolution.

I have little experience of the things you describe, but I did watch Brat Camp on TV (a reality series where they sent a whole lot of 'delinquent' British teenagers to various behavioural change camps in the US. The whole notion of filming troubled teenagers acting out and then being cured is, in my view, highly intrusive and unethical anyway, but wouldn't be the first time someone's 'therapy' has been used for entertainment purposes.

A couple of the camps were extreme Christian - based in Utah or texas if I remember. Their practises were dubious at best, if not down right abusive, and not based on any credible behavioural science, but rather some good old punitive punishments, dressed up to look like therapic practice.

What annoyed me the most was the idea of the out of control teenager as being purely the problem and needing to be fixed before sent home, nicely repackaged to the parents who took no responsibility for the circumstances which, in most cases, contributed to the teenagers behavioural problems. Another quick fix solution, even better because the parents were absolved of blame.

Those kids who were canny enough, just learned to comply in order to get the hell out. It was appalling television, which I couldn't stop watching.

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Tuesday, January 19, 2010 1:34 PM

Hmm, Well, I did mention my personal theologies had an eastern bent, although a much darker one, a rare path that sprung from some of those beliefs, one interesting bit of which is "choking the evil" by force-feeding it and finding a safe method to feed the inner beasts beyond satisfaction into the equivalent of a helpless nauseated slumber, and then chain them, repeating the cycle only as they eventually break free and threaten to run wild.

Principle of such is doin that allows one to interact with folk without those darker influences since they are otherwise occupied, yes ?

Reason I mention this is cause I feed the bloodlust by video games, you see, and one of the methods is actually quite similar to EMDR as you have described it.

I will select a game/stage that I know so intimately I can play it through on reflex alone, and while the outer mind is prettymuch on autopilot, pull back and more or less "clean house" down in the subconscious, which sounds about like what they're doing with EMDR, very interesting.

And yes, the box of springs is prettymuch just a visual model to keep in focus the essence of what is going on, the same way in ritual the props and tools do, to serve as a visual-mental anchor so you don't get lost and confused midstream, which can be exceptionally dangerous, and it's one of the reasons I am so terribly hostile to Therapists who work "on the clock" like that.

-F

PS - Not Buddhism per se, something closer to Vajrayana Sorcery from a Jungian Shadow Aspect, with a side order of Trickster-ism.
http://www.crystalinks.com/trickster.html
(long but interesting explaination of trickster-ism)

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Tuesday, January 19, 2010 1:51 PM

Magonsdaughter

Quote:
Frem, I still have a bit of issue with the way you've lumped a lot of disparate research in together, branded it all as a bit of a failure and then linked it to the highly unethical practices of groups within our society. As they say, knowledge is a dangerous thing. Because research has been used unethically is really not the fault of the research.

Erk, did not mean to give that impression - I was pointing out that chemical control/loyalty, as a program, did fail utterly, many of these programs did, and for that I am both gratified, and unsurprised, because they were betting on a human nature they had mistaken.

But despite the awfulness of their intent, some good came out of it too, the research that brought a lot of useful therapy drugs to the market, which can be lifesavers *when used properly* came out of that as well, and so did a lot of understanding used to treat and help trauma victims.

Quote:
A couple of the camps were extreme Christian - based in Utah or texas if I remember. Their practises were dubious at best, if not down right abusive, and not based on any credible behavioural science, but rather some good old punitive punishments, dressed up to look like therapic practice.

Oh believe me, that doesn't even scratch the surface, but yeah, there's those, and we treat em no different than any other hellcamp.

Quote:
What annoyed me the most was the idea of the out of control teenager as being purely the problem and needing to be fixed before sent home, nicely repackaged to the parents who took no responsibility for the circumstances which, in most cases, contributed to the teenagers behavioural problems. Another quick fix solution, even better because the parents were absolved of blame.

DING-DING-DING, you nailed it, that's a huge part of the problem, compounded by the way we treat kids as subhuman property, since the adult actually has rights, and happens to be the one payin the bill - no one has the balls to point out to em that maybe THEY are the ones with a problem, maybe them never being there, not investing the time and effort, or projecting their own issues on the kid happens to be more of a root cause than anything to do with the child at hand...

Quote:
Those kids who were canny enough, just learned to comply in order to get the hell out. It was appalling television, which I couldn't stop watching.

I actually had to be talked out of deliberately sending them one of our rescuees as a ringer

cause I SO wanted very badly to do that, of course, if they did manage to stage a revolt I doubt we'd get to see the footage, but it woulda been nice...
That's actually an option we ain't used too often, but believe it, one well-trained ringer-saboteur can take these places apart by turning their "patients" on them at an opportune moment.

Mostly it all seems to be ordinary youthful risk taking and limit testing, crashing into an overwhelmed parent who's stressed out by working themselves half to death to keep from sinking further into debt, who's own feelings of desperation and lack of control wind up aimed at the kid instead of the social trap that they dare not question, and soon enough along comes the smooth talking hellcamp rep, promising to make it all better for a low, low monthly fee...

Which never turns out so low, plays on the same dumbass shortsightedness that GOT the parent up to their ass in financial obligations in the first freakin place, and has nothing to do with helping the kid anyway - private schools are actually CHEAPER than the hellcamps, when the bill comes due.

Crank it back a century or so, these are prettymuch the same nimrods who sent their distraught wives to insane asylums - same game, different victim, and so long as we keep treating kids as subhuman nonpersons, it's gonna go on.

But it CAN be changed - you don't see too much of that crap towards women no more, and the tide of this is turning, although slower than I would like.

-F

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Tuesday, January 19, 2010 3:13 PM

Oh my yes, I see a lot of the trickster in you Frem.
Flirting with both ends of the reality stream and playing the game at full tilt.

Also, 'Conservation for Conservatives'. Love it!

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Tuesday, January 19, 2010 5:09 PM

MAL4PREZ

Thank you for the words, Niki. Luckily, the woman I did EMDR with was not my main therapist. The main lady was fabulous, and we both figured out pretty easily that the other was whacked. It's probably why the EMDR didn't work. I never really trusted her.

And I agree - any form of therapy is about trust. I knew I'd found my match with my main therapists when she made fun of the psych docs who try not to look their patients in the eye and try be all neutral, as if they're not really there. Hello! Patients aren't stupid! We know there's another human in the room.

Anyway, perhaps the EMDR thing will come back in the future. In the meantime, I've reached an entirely OK place. With no meds.

Oh - as for meds. A few years on those saved my life. It also had to do with finding the right doc though. The first one put me on vegetable-making stuff, which I immediately quit. The right doc put me on the minimal amount of something that fit my chemistry better. It helped me stay sane till I got sane, so to speak.

Well, saner.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Tuesday, January 19, 2010 5:13 PM

I can't deny that as a stabilizing tool, drugs have some benefits. I just don't think they're the solution, which seems to be the majority viewpoint in this thread.

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Tuesday, January 19, 2010 5:53 PM

Just some stuff to add, since I gotta get on the job here in a few.

The whole commercial-advertising-pysch exploitation reached a point back in 99 where even some of the APA recoiled, and it took me a while to dig up the letter they sent to the Prez of that association, who more or less outright ignored it.
http://lists.essential.org/commercial-alert/msg00022.html

I distinctly recall one advert that completely, totally set me off, I had some business early on a saturday morning and decided on a rare whim to check out whatever cartoons were in the offering while cooking breakfast - and during a particular set which seemed aimed at young girls, on comes a commercial for, I-kid-you-not, a fucking cosmetic surgery clinic!

Man I went berserk, I pulled up the stations number and laid into them pretty solid about it, with a heavy emphasis on potential legal liability, and then went about riling up as much of the local community as I could reach...
*twitch*
Seriously, that one set me off baaad.

And while I don't have time to pick out the details, there's a related bit by Krishnamurti which is perhaps a bit more philsophical than necessary, but touches on this subject and how it relates as well.
http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/krishnamurti-teachings/view-text.php?tid=
271&chid=4601&w=truth
What seems most curious is that while coming at it from a totally obscure angle, I think a lot of his essential meaning is that the problems are caused by a lack of internal/external empathy, and that lack and deliberate social constructs intent on causing it have been the topic of discussion more than once around here.

Will check in between rounds.

-F

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Tuesday, January 19, 2010 10:05 PM

Mal4Prez

Happy to hear you have reached an ok place and are feeling saner.

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Tuesday, January 19, 2010 10:14 PM

Frem

Unbelievable that they would air a commercial about plastic surgery during a cartoon program aimed at young girls. That's just wrong on so many levels. Glad you caught that.

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Wednesday, January 20, 2010 10:58 AM

Barbie dolls have been pushing the same agenda for several generations. It's just overt these days.

Silicon - good. What nature gave you - bad.

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Wednesday, January 20, 2010 11:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Barbie dolls have been pushing the same agenda for several generations. It's just overt these days.

Silicon - good. What nature gave you - bad.

Silicon IS what 'nature' gave us...

And it is good .

Knowing the difference 'tween Silicon and Silicone , even better...

Silicone
n.
Any of a group of semi-inorganic polymers based on the structural unit R2SiO, where R is an organic group, characterized by wide-range thermal stability, high lubricity, extreme water repellence, and physiological inertness and used in adhesives, lubricants, protective coatings, paints, electrical insulation, synthetic rubber, and prosthetic replacements for body parts.

Silicon
n. (Symbol Si)
A nonmetallic element occurring extensively in the earth's crust in silica and silicates, having both an amorphous and a crystalline allotrope, and used doped or in combination with other materials in glass, semiconducting devices, concrete, brick, refractories, pottery, and silicones. Atomic number 14; atomic weight 28.086; melting point 1,410°C; boiling point 2,355°C; specific gravity 2.33; valence 4.

Sili girl !

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Wednesday, January 20, 2010 11:12 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

And SiLi is a lithium drifted silicon crystal used to detect X-rays.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, January 20, 2010 11:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
And SiLi is a lithium drifted silicon crystal used to detect X-rays.

Even less relevant than usual , rue...

Often , you outdo yourself...

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Wednesday, January 20, 2010 11:28 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Hey little boy - just responding to YOU, who typed this: "Sili girl !"

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, January 20, 2010 11:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by out2theblack:
Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Barbie dolls have been pushing the same agenda for several generations. It's just overt these days.

Silicon - good. What nature gave you - bad.

Silicon IS what 'nature' gave us...

And it is good .

Knowing the difference 'tween Silicon and Silicone , even better...

Silicone
n.
Any of a group of semi-inorganic polymers based on the structural unit R2SiO, where R is an organic group, characterized by wide-range thermal stability, high lubricity, extreme water repellence, and physiological inertness and used in adhesives, lubricants, protective coatings, paints, electrical insulation, synthetic rubber, and prosthetic replacements for body parts.

Silicon
n. (Symbol Si)
A nonmetallic element occurring extensively in the earth's crust in silica and silicates, having both an amorphous and a crystalline allotrope, and used doped or in combination with other materials in glass, semiconducting devices, concrete, brick, refractories, pottery, and silicones. Atomic number 14; atomic weight 28.086; melting point 1,410°C; boiling point 2,355°C; specific gravity 2.33; valence 4.

Sili girl !

Neither would be natural if you had them inserted into your boobs

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Wednesday, January 20, 2010 11:35 AM

Ah yes, Barbie Dolls. I played with those damn things. I tried to raise my own daughters a little differently. I do remember the one time I slipped up and brought one for my youngest daughter. She took her toy dinosaur and munched the head right off. And that was that. :)

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Wednesday, January 20, 2010 11:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Hey little boy - just responding to YOU, who typed this: "Sili girl !"

Silicon is good...

A 5–20 mg daily dose of bio-available silicon is necessary for the proper functioning of the human body.

All your silicon dioxide has apparently filled your cranium...

What was your point , again , or WAS there one ?

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Wednesday, January 20, 2010 11:40 AM

Quote:
Ah yes, Barbie Dolls. I played with those damn things. I tried to raise my own daughters a little differently. I do remember the one time I slipped up and brought one for my youngest daughter. She took her toy dinosaur and munched the head right off. And that was that. :)

I suddenly have renewed hope for this generation and the next.

Note to parents: make all your kids this cool. That is all.

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Wednesday, January 20, 2010 11:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

Neither would be natural if you had them inserted into your boobs

Willing to bet that you have a fair amount of silicon in your boobs...

Sort of like Rue , though , now that you're somewhat more 'educated' , you haven't gotten much smarter...

Go back to playing with your boobs...Or , inserting things into them , or whatever it is that you like to do...

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Wednesday, January 20, 2010 11:57 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

O2B, do you HAVE to be such a ... boob??? Why did you have to sideswipe an innocent bystander???

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Wednesday, January 20, 2010 12:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
O2B, do you HAVE to be such a ... boob??? Why did you have to sideswipe an innocent bystander???

Boobs are good !

I vote that we have MORE boobs on this forum !

Who's 'an innocent bystander' on this forum , again ?

Mighty Heidi ! NO Artificial Ingredients...

LOTS of Silicon in THIS one , though :

WHOA HOWDY ! This girl is GIFTED !

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Wednesday, January 20, 2010 12:37 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

And the award for the very FIRST personal attack goes to ... the envelope please ...

OUT TO LUNCH ! Oh, is that out to the black ?

with THIS contribution in an otherwise topical thread !

Let it roll ...

"Even less relevant than usual"

The award please -

Now take your award, go away, and fuck yourself. Assuming you can find it.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, January 20, 2010 2:23 PM

Heh, I still remember my sister getting GI Joe instead of Ken, which I took for her thinkin Ken was a wuss...

Till I notice her Barbie is now dressed in camo and carryin a rifle...

My sister always was a bit strange.

Actually the wallet slayer amongst most of the folk I know isn't Barbie and accessories, it's Super Dollfies, good heavens them things cost a bundle, and one look at the accessory prices or custom jobs would make you turn green!

That said, given the ability *TO* customise them (my ex can make very high quality clothes for em, even has the fitting doll) one does have the option of patterning one off a better role model like Nausica, Yuna, or what have you.

Of course, that's if you buy off the rack, someone with skill can build an SD/BJD themselves much cheaper, and I think that carries far more meaning as a gift - the kid who got that dollhouse is almost twenty now, and wouldn't part with it for all the world, it's gonna be her kids toy too, as intended.

Back on topic, however: It occurs to me that all marketing and influence is essentially a form of propaganda, which has it's roots in rhetoric and persuasion.
http://mason.gmu.edu/~amcdonal/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda

It's interesting to note that historically the widening availability of print media was initially both a counter to propaganda and a threat to the control of the established order at the time - probably one reason they weren't too hot on literacy, especially the religious types, some of which still ain't.

That don't apply to just the US, neither, many of the middle eastern radicals play on the illiteracy of their followers, who if they ever actually READ the Quaran, might take different messages from it, especially what with there being some strong words about certain conduct in there.
(Another reason why RAWA's push for education is important to me.)

Eventually the powers that be managed to dominate print media, the first action down this road was ole "honest" *snerk* Abe Lincoln locking up folk who didn't toe the line, and the heyday of it was Hearsts empire which coined the term "Yellow Journalism" - I still hold him more than anyone else responsible for the Spanish-American War.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism

Enter broadcast media, which then countered print media, and the eventual but still incomplete takeover of that, only to be countered by the Internet.

Technology finds a way, and the participatory nature of the Internet makes it extremely resistant to such advances because it is decentralised - consider well it's value in making information available to us "peons", of course with no guarantees of the QUALITY of that information, but still, overall a positive impact.

You see, when EVERYONE has a voice, greater or smaller, louder or quieter, even the greatest, loudest voice can be countered by many small, quiet ones - and that is the essence of how propaganda is defeated, it only takes but one small, quiet voice, asking the right pointed questions, to break a logical fallacy, point out sophistry, to question the big lie.

That is where the edge lies, no matter the money or influence, you can't buy out the Internet - it's as pointless as buying out a concert hall for the sake of a single instrument and no guarantee anyone would come listen, even the powers that be find it too damn useful to destroy.

Which gives to wonder, as has been expressed by some spiritualists already, and explored in various anime and games - is the Internet perhaps the technological expression of the collective consciousness of all mankind ?

Certainly something to ponder at length.

-F

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Wednesday, January 20, 2010 3:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by out2theblack:
Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

Neither would be natural if you had them inserted into your boobs

Willing to bet that you have a fair amount of silicon in your boobs...
B]

And I bet you got a fair amount up your arse. Are we all good now?

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Wednesday, January 20, 2010 3:44 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

No telling WHAT O2B has up it's ass. I would look for its head, though.

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Wednesday, January 20, 2010 6:11 PM

Annd, to try and wrench this back on topic, imma throw in some links for Littlebird here.

http://wiki.fornits.com/index.php?title=Main_Page
http://wiki.fornits.com/index.php?title=Behavior_Modification_History

And since they've sourced it in the easiest to read manner, Ficas exploration of the matter, with a little help from Maia, who is also an activist on this front.
http://ficanetwork.net/

-F

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Wednesday, January 20, 2010 7:56 PM

Frem

I am reading and thinking about all the things you are you posting. You are making some excellent points and asking some important questions. I need a little more time to collect my thoughts before I reply. But, thank you for the time and attention you are putting into this subject.

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Thursday, January 21, 2010 6:35 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

I spoke with a young lady in our weight lifting class at a local community tech college. She said she was kept locked in a closed all the time by her male "friend". She escaped once and somebody called the cops. Cops gave her back to the "friend".

That's damned effective mind control.

I hadn't yet started journalism full-time. But would've made an interesting interview/debrief on video. I've interviewed WW2 POWs, so that's similar.

I also spoke with an ex stripper / restaurant manager who was drugged in a Satanic ritual animal sacrifice in a (former?) Christian church in downtown Knoxville TN. Hallucenogenic mind control helps discredit eyewitnesses who talk. Another interesting interview had I done it.

A local Wiccan told me local cops are now ordered to never make arrests involving "Satanic" rituals, since "it's just another religion".

It's wise to live in a bunker when you start throwing stones.

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Thursday, January 21, 2010 8:35 AM

Quote:
I spoke with a young lady in our weight lifting class at a local community tech college. She said she was kept locked in a closed all the time by her male "friend". She escaped once and somebody called the cops. Cops gave her back to the "friend".

That's damned effective mind control.

Happens with kids all the time, to the point where we've actually come up with a specific medical/psych strategy for what we call "Closet Kids", my apparently self-adopted 'daughter' Wendy, is one of those, to the point where she has permanent vision impairment from being kept in the dark so long, one of our golden-rope members is an optometrist who's been a real trooper in helping try to mitigate that problem.

Quote:
Hallucenogenic mind control helps discredit eyewitnesses who talk.

That's a pretty standard tactic, the bullshit Satanic trappings and the drugs to discredit victim testimony, these days it's SOP for the hellcamps, when presented with a court order, to give em a very high doseage of psychoactive drugs before they shove em out at you in hopes of the weirdness and acting out "proving" they are crazy and making testimony inadmissable.

Quote:
A local Wiccan told me local cops are now ordered to never make arrests involving "Satanic" rituals, since "it's just another religion".

Well, provided they are not *actually* sacrificing or abusing someone without consent, it prettymuch is, people believe the strangest things...
But so long as they're not doing actual harm, bah, let em.
Besides which, most of the ones that DO, it's all just cover while they dispose of inconvenient witnesses or victims who are used up, too desensitized to be "fun" any more, many of whom see it as a blessing if they have any sanity left by then at all.

Far as ritual sacrifice goes, it's lunchtime, and so I gotta go sacrifice a cheeseburger to myself on the altar of Bacchus...
(That's an in-joke for my favorite tablewear, mind)

-F

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Thursday, January 21, 2010 9:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
No telling WHAT O2B has up it's ass. I would look for its head, though.

Wrong-headed thinking , again , StickyNymph...

Rue has already crawled up my arse , out 'doing' herself yet again...

Unpleasant though it may be , I know how you two hang together...

You have made it known time and again how you are looking for another opportunity to 'perform' certain acts while you look for my 'head'...

But , it's well-known you can't stop , and you can't help yourself , StickyNymph0 !

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Thursday, January 21, 2010 9:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

And I bet you got a fair amount up your arse. Are we all good now?

I do , admittedly contain loads of silicon...

Unfortunately , most of what's up my arse is the rue-ful one's sand-packed cranium...Always willing to leap in to another argument that is not belonging to them...

Between you and me , there are no personal problems . Carry on...

Back on topic...

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Thursday, January 21, 2010 9:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

...Eventually the powers that be managed to dominate print media, the first action down this road was ole "honest" *snerk* Abe Lincoln locking up folk who didn't toe the line, and the heyday of it was Hearsts empire which coined the term "Yellow Journalism" - I still hold him more than anyone else responsible for the Spanish-American War...

...Which gives to wonder, as has been expressed by some spiritualists already, and explored in various anime and games - is the Internet perhaps the technological expression of the collective consciousness of all mankind ?

Certainly something to ponder at length.

-F

Yes .

It is the technological 'expression of the collective consciousness of all mankind' .

That's why it's so full of pornography...

And why I don't seek to 'ponder' it at length...

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Thursday, January 21, 2010 9:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by out2theblack:
It is the technological 'expression of the collective consciousness of all mankind' .

That's why it's so full of pornography..

Well, Duh!

I mean, come on, didn't Bill Clintons near singlehanded revival of the cigar industry clue you in to the fact that our collective consciousness is fairly perverse ?

-F

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Thursday, January 21, 2010 9:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

I mean, come on, didn't Bill Clintons near singlehanded revival of the cigar industry clue you in to the fact that our collective consciousness is fairly perverse ?

-F

I don't choose to join in that particular collective consciousness , nor do I have much of an attachment to the notion of a 'consensus reality'...

Having said that , sometimes a cigar is just a cigar...

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Thursday, January 21, 2010 11:03 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Mal: I’m glad you found a good one. They ARE out there…! Glad you got to a good place, too; sometimes that’s all we can ever hope for, and pushing and pushing to get it “perfect” will never work, of course! If your quality of life is high enough to satisfy you, that’s what’s important.

As to “sane”, I don’t believe in it any more than in Santa Claus. I refuse to use the word “normies” that others do, as I don’t believe there’s such a thing as “normal”. I call people NOT diagnosed with something GUMs (Great Undiagnosed Masses), as I firmly believe that, given time, they’ll find everyone has one “disorder” or another!

Byte:

Quote:
I just don't think they're the solution, which seems to be the majority viewpoint in this thread.

are you saying the majority viewpoint is that they’re NOT the solution, or that they are? I think the former, and that’s definitely what I believe, too.

Re Barbie dolls: It’s not just this generation, Byte. I had plastic horses, and entire collection of them, and so did my two best friends. We made little stables, “steeplechased” contests with them and lots more, and we pretended to be horses when we went out and played. I always wanted to be a black with white mane and tail, I remember. I never owned a Barbie doll after the age of 8 and Paula never owned one at all. We’re out there, and hopefully more of us will come along! ‘Course, we’re both weird anyway; neither ever had a “wedding”, Jim and I were married in a field at Grover Hot Springs St. Park (by Paula’s sister), and both Paula and I only got married because society insisted—me to get Jim on my health insurance, she for her husband to live with her on park grounds.

As for most of the rest, just snarks not worthy of reply. I would ask “Does OTB ever have ANYTHING of ANY value to say?”, but I know that’s a rhetorical question. Kudos to those of you who just ignore him; those who don’t, 40 lashes with a wet noodle. Terrible time waster.

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Thursday, January 21, 2010 12:20 PM

I get Kudos? Happy chirping. Love Kudos.

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Thursday, January 21, 2010 12:29 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Yes, Bird; for someone just coming into posting, you've got smarts...the only way to have a decent discussion and not get into snarking is to ignore trolls and troll-like intruders such as OTB and Wulf, in my opinion. You're smart. Kudos.

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Thursday, January 21, 2010 12:55 PM

Aw shucks Niki. Thank you. You're pretty smart yourownself. more chirping.

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Thursday, January 21, 2010 1:02 PM

Frem and PN

Yep, I know about the ridicule that comes from trying to share some of this stuff.

Still gives me a twisty feeling in my gut talking about it even now.

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Thursday, January 21, 2010 3:09 PM

Ah, but ridicule is a two-edged sword, Littlebird.

Think to yourself just how satisfying it would be to look one of the architects of this bullshit dead square in the eye and say something like "Drug addled, mind controlled zombie assassins ?!, what on EARTH ever convinced you that mighta been a good idea or even feasible!, seriously, dude, there's something WRONG with you!"

And if you think that's the only cockamamie plan they ever came up with, you ain't seen nothin yet!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_Kitty
For crying out loud, did it NOT occur to them that cats are natural anarchists and fey enough to destroy almost ANY "brilliant idea" plan on contact ?
*shakes head*

Just think to yourself every time that squirmy feeling hits you - YOU weren't the moron who thought this shit would actually WORK.

-F

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Thursday, January 21, 2010 3:18 PM

LMAO

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Thursday, January 21, 2010 4:16 PM

Quote:
are you saying the majority viewpoint is that they’re NOT the solution, or that they are? I think the former, and that’s definitely what I believe, too.

I'm saying the former is the majority viewpoint, and huzzah for that. *waves smiley face flags*

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Friday, January 22, 2010 8:47 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Ah, good. I expected nothing less of you. But that we could convince the world...or even do away with the "doctor as god" concept that so many people still hold when they seek help. Sigh...

Personal responsibility; a difficult concept for most to grasp, it seems to me.

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Friday, January 22, 2010 3:26 PM

Does anyone have any good ideas about moving built up energy out of the body? I am understanding about the mental work that needs to be done to change patterns, but was wondering if some body movement exercises would help.

Just going outside of my comfort zone and posting a little on this board has really raised my anxiety level. Haven't been able to find the cat nip tea yet, but am listening to sounds of nature CD's.

I did Tai Chi several years ago and it really did start helping after several months. I wish I would of stuck with it. sigh.. I was just wondering if someone knew of something that would work a bit faster than that. Yoga? It's hard to get out and walk with so much rain. Taking lots of deep breaths.

Ugh. I hate this.

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Friday, January 22, 2010 3:36 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I wish I knew something helpful. I'm just here to say that I am thinking of you and hoping you feel better sooner, rather than later.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, January 22, 2010 4:15 PM

Well, I don't really believe too much in alternative medicine, and I've never really gotten into this myself, but I have heard things about massage...

Since you've taken Tai Chi, I've no doubt you've heard of this. I was about to recommend Tai Chi to you, because I've taken it before myself.

The Chinese have this concept called qi gong, energy moving through the body. Activating the energy in an area can tense or relax a muscle and facilitate over all "flow" so to speak. Really, I think it's just feeling good from the muscle relaxing, but there could be something there. Tai Chi is about working the muscles out in this way.

The Japanese have something called Shiatsu massage that they stole from the Chinese medicine concepts of energy flow. But I hear regular massage can also help.

The only problem is that you'd have to find someone who you can trust, which might be difficult. You said you're married, right? Maybe if you took a class with your husband? Might still take some time though.

I've taken some Yoga too though, it helped my muscles some. I've always had back trouble since I was a kid. You could try it, the whole concept of Chakra that the Chinese derived their ideas about energy from does come from India.

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Friday, January 22, 2010 4:49 PM

Hmm, most health-food stores usually have some, try Seelect, then.
http://www.seelecttea.com/product_info.php?products_id=43

As for the energy buildup, oddly enough ?
Household cleaning and chores.
Allows you to work it out of your system while doing something necessary that will also settle all those low level "background noise" messages which pile up when the trash needs out, dishes done, etc.

It's kind of a useful way of burning off the energy while securing your mental "fortress" by cutting off the noise/guilt factor of unfinished domestic business - and it can help focus your mind besides.

Win-Win, that one is - I tend to get domestic when something pisses me off, in lieu of wringing someones neck and on the philosophy that doing something USEFUL right now, is better than doing the exact right thing four hours too late to make any bloody difference.

-F

ETA: Cue funny image of me with my six horsepower wet-dry shop vac QSP (I take my vaccuuming seriously) and snapping the tube together like I'm cocking a shotgun.
"Let's get... domestic!"

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Friday, January 22, 2010 9:41 PM

Housework .... really? I tend to do things like set the kitchen on fire or fall and hurt myself when trying to actually do things when I am feeling this way. Just to name a few. My husband has threatened to wrap me up in yellow crime scene tape when I get like this.

Guess I could give it another try. There is always something needing to be done around here.

Thanks for the tea link.

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Saturday, January 23, 2010 5:35 AM